Free Agents

[TJJackson]

Unfortunately, Billy, you're probably right.

Although I can think of a bunch of ways to better spend Chad's salary than on Chad, I doubt Son-of-a-Genius can

[ArmyBengal]

I'm not sitting here thinking Chad won't be here, that's not my point.

I think he will be there with his typical "look at me" antics I can't stand.

I think Mike Brown doesn't care about how he could negatively impact Green.

If the thought is to have a veteran presence fine, cut Chad and bring in a vet WR that won't cost you 6 million for the season.

If the money just needs to be spent, simply look into the secondary with JJoe and Hall.

How about another veteran safety who is more serviceable then some in the current group ??

I.

F*CKING.

HATE.

CHAD.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

This is the Bengals we're talking about here guys. The team is for all intents and purposes is run by the owner Mike Brown. Knowing this heading into the upcoming season I'll bet anyone that Chad will be lined up at wide receiver when the team takes it first offensive snap in 2011.

Any takers?

I will. But that's only because I know, if Chad's not dumped prior to the last round of cuts, that some poor Bengal fan will Tonya Harding his knees. I have faith in my people to make things right.

Otherwise, at this point I expect Chad to be named player-coach when Marvin falls into a drug binge during the bye week. We will never be rid of this clown. He'll end up being the bizarro world Phil Jackson to Pumpkin's Jeannie Buss.

By the way, I fully expect Hair's graphic narrative for that scenario. Don't disappoint. Remember the tiger-striped-fur-lined undies.

[BengalPimp]

http://sports.espn.g...john&id=6699864

the bengals are #1 negatively affected? they apparently need to spend around 60 million to meet the floor, do you think the front office picks up dre's extension? looks like we are going to have at least 1 premier signing or alot of decent signings...

Honestly, if this happens, it will F*ck up the Bengals for the next decade.............

Here's why: The Bengals front office is the laughingstock of the League. Mike Brown, Katie,Son-In-Law, and the rest of the Fam are complete morons who know nothing about juggling a Salary Cap because they are never close enough to it to be worried. They would FOR SURE overspend to get up to the required minimum, wasting it all on bad contracts and preventing them from doing future deals because of the junk multiyear deals they will hand out this offseason.

This (more than anything else) should FORCE them to hire a competent GM and "Capologist" so Son of a Genius doesn't F*ck the Franchise for another decade.................

[COB]

know nothing about juggling a Salary Cap because they are never close enough to it to be worried. They would FOR SURE overspend to get up to the required minimum, wasting it all on bad contracts and preventing them from doing future deals because of the junk multiyear deals they will hand out this offseason.

Do you seriously think the Browns can't figure out the cap? It's not rocket science, and the Bengals front office, more than a football operation, is basically a law firm. I'm not saying they don't need a gm for football operations, but figuring out contracts is not an issue for them.

[HoosierCat]

Honestly, if this happens, it will F*ck up the Bengals for the next decade.............

Here's why: The Bengals front office is the laughingstock of the League. Mike Brown, Katie,Son-In-Law, and the rest of the Fam are complete morons who know nothing about juggling a Salary Cap because they are never close enough to it to be worried. They would FOR SURE overspend to get up to the required minimum, wasting it all on bad contracts and preventing them from doing future deals because of the junk multiyear deals they will hand out this offseason.

This (more than anything else) should FORCE them to hire a competent GM and "Capologist" so Son of a Genius doesn't F*ck the Franchise for another decade.................

If what's being reported is accurate, namely that teams would have to spend actual cash money up to close to the cap, it would likely make cap management far, far easier and should prevent the kind of long-term damage common previously.

Previously, teams got in cap trouble due to hefty bonuses handed out to players who then failed to live up to their deals. Since the bonuses were amortized over the lifetime of the contract, and if the player was cut any unamortized money all accelerated into the current year, teams got stuck in situations where it would cost more to cut a guy than to keep him. (This happened to the Bengals with Levi Jones, for instance).

But this hard floor concept would (or, at least, it seems to me it would) end all of that. With all the cap space taken up by actual spending, there's little or no room for those kind of bonuses. Everything would be money spent on the current year. Thus, players could be cut without incurring a cap hit.

Obviously, that doesn't guarantee that the Bengals would spend money any more productively. And equally obviously we don't know the details of how the new system will work. But so far it sounds a lot more straightforward and less likely to produce long-term damage. We'll see.

[HoosierCat]

Prisco lists his top 50 FA's here:

/>http://www.cbssports.com/#!/nfl/story/15272054/top-50-free-agents-new-rules-may-fill-up-deep-pool

Ranks JJ No. 3 overall, suggesting he'll be in demand. And he has Nnamdi at No. 1 and thinks he could be the NFL's highest-paid defender when the dust settles, which will only drive up JJ's value. On the flip side he has a bunch of corners among his top 50 so the deep class might hold prices down a bit.

[HairOnFire]

As a longtime Bengal fan I've learned how to live with less. Thus, I didn't even bother looking at the first half of the list, and limited my selections to 2nd tier guys who won't command mega coin.

With the uncertainty surrounding Joseph the Bengals need to develope contingency plans, including a strategy built around signing a new CB who admittedly won't be as good as Joseph, but also won't cost as much. Of the names listed the three that stand out to me are the Falcon's smallish Brent Grimes, who I love watching compete, and Baltimore's FA tandem of Chris Carr and Josh Wilson. If Joseph departs I'd be happy enough with any of the three.

Next, I'm still in the camp that would love to add a veteran OG. I admit the need isn't as pressing now as it was prior to the draft but I'd still target FA's like Davin Joseph, Justin Blaylock, or Harvey Dahl.

Finally, I'd bring Manny Lawson in for a visit if Marvin is still interested in kicking his tires.

[HoosierCat]

I completely agree about having a plan B (and possibly C) at CB, and was think the same thing about o-line help.

They only thing I'd add is that, depending on how the new cap rules are, the Bengals may have no choice but to spend big. In which case, of the guys up on the top of the list I would expect Joseph to be their first target. Charles Johnson or Eric Weddle would be nice, too.

[HairOnFire]

They only thing I'd add is that, depending on how the new cap rules are, the Bengals may have no choice but to spend big. In which case, of the guys up on the top of the list I would expect Joseph to be their first target. Charles Johnson or Eric Weddle would be nice, too.

I'm guessing retaining Joseph is their biggest FA priority, and if a new agreement brings changes that help them accomplish that task then so much the better. But I remind you, new cap rules mean everyone will have to pay big, not just Brown, so there's no reason to believe spending more money will result in the Bengals creating a bigger splash. In fact, if the past is any guide I'd expect to see Brown meet his larger spending obligations, not by signing an expensive top tier level FA, but rather...by signing an additional 2nd or 3rd tier player or two.

Simply put, a higher spending floor isn't likely to change the manner in which Mike Brown operates in free agency. He's never going to be proactive when it comes to setting the market. Rather, he'll wait and allow the market price to be set, meaning he'll likely miss out on players like Weddle and Johnson before finalizing his own plans....especially if negotiations with Joseph aren't concluded quickly.

FWIW, the scenario I can envision most easily is a repeat of a few years ago when the Bengals were sitting on a mountain of FA cash, but due to their steadfast refusal to knowlingly overpay for the mediocre FA's available found themselves unable to attract quality FA's.

[HoosierCat]

Simply put, a higher spending floor isn't likely to change the manner in which Mike Brown operates in free agency.

I just don't know. You may be right. But the more I wrap my brain around this whole hard, high salary floor concept, the more I think that we are in for a fundamental shift in compensation. Here, chew on this one from Lenny P. today:

According to the presumptive details first reported by ESPN's Chris Mortensen and subsequently confirmed by several owners, one of the proposed stipulations is that clubs spend close to 100 percent of a year's salary cap "FLOOR" number in terms of real payroll. The spending floor would be about 90-93 percent of the total cap limit. And, of interest -- and, frankly, surprise -- to many of his critics, Brown already has done so.

Unlike many of his free-spending peers, Brown and the Bengals don't believe in investing future money. The collective mindset of the Bengals is to prefer a "pay as you go" philosophy, one that attempts to avoid so-called "dead money." It might surprise a lot of people, but Cincinnati often comes closer to the cap, in terms of actual payroll, than some franchises with higher cap numbers.

What we're looking at here is a new CBA under which every team operates on the same "pay as you go" basis as the Bengals.

Let me repeat that: every team operates like the Bengals.

We're talking about the end of the signing bonus era here; a massive leveling of the playing field. No longer can a guy like Dan Snyder go out and give 5 guys 5-year deals with a $20 million signing bonus each and have the cap hit be $20 million plus their salaries that year.

Now it all hits in the same year. Those five guys would eat up almost the entire cap.

So the questions I find myself asking now are, what becomes the new definition of a "big deal"? Is there even such a thing as guaranteed money anymore, beyond guaranteeing a guy's salary if he's on the roster opening day? How does this change the nature of deal themselves? With no cap hits to consider, back-loaded deals become an instant joke. But without an ability to amortize money over time, teams will be very limited in the number of deals with big up-front money that they can offer.

I don't have answers because we don't know all the ground rules yet, but in a world where it looks like the whole league is adopting the Mike Brown model, I'm ready to believe anything.

[COB]

Simply put, a higher spending floor isn't likely to change the manner in which Mike Brown operates in free agency.

I just don't know. You may be right. But the more I wrap my brain around this whole hard, high salary floor concept, the more I think that we are in for a fundamental shift in compensation. Here, chew on this one from Lenny P. today:

According to the presumptive details first reported by ESPN's Chris Mortensen and subsequently confirmed by several owners, one of the proposed stipulations is that clubs spend close to 100 percent of a year's salary cap "FLOOR" number in terms of real payroll. The spending floor would be about 90-93 percent of the total cap limit. And, of interest -- and, frankly, surprise -- to many of his critics, Brown already has done so.

Unlike many of his free-spending peers, Brown and the Bengals don't believe in investing future money. The collective mindset of the Bengals is to prefer a "pay as you go" philosophy, one that attempts to avoid so-called "dead money." It might surprise a lot of people, but Cincinnati often comes closer to the cap, in terms of actual payroll, than some franchises with higher cap numbers.

What we're looking at here is a new CBA under which every team operates on the same "pay as you go" basis as the Bengals.

Let me repeat that: every team operates like the Bengals.

We're talking about the end of the signing bonus era here; a massive leveling of the playing field. No longer can a guy like Dan Snyder go out and give 5 guys 5-year deals with a $20 million signing bonus each and have the cap hit be $20 million plus their salaries that year.

Now it all hits in the same year. Those five guys would eat up almost the entire cap.

So the questions I find myself asking now are, what becomes the new definition of a "big deal"? Is there even such a thing as guaranteed money anymore, beyond guaranteeing a guy's salary if he's on the roster opening day? How does this change the nature of deal themselves? With no cap hits to consider, back-loaded deals become an instant joke. But without an ability to amortize money over time, teams will be very limited in the number of deals with big up-front money that they can offer.

I don't have answers because we don't know all the ground rules yet, but in a world where it looks like the whole league is adopting the Mike Brown model, I'm ready to believe anything.

It's Jerra and Dan being saved from themselves. And it's a dark day for RedHouse. He'll think of something, but it will be tough for him to accept that a 20 million dollar deal is, in fact, only a 20 million dollar deal. He and other agents are going to bitch like crazy and they'll counsel their clients to resist this deal.

[HairOnFire]

What we're looking at here is a new CBA under which every team operates on the same "pay as you go" basis as the Bengals.

Let me repeat that: every team operates like the Bengals.

Well, if every team suddenly starts doing business like the Bengals....what are the odds the Bengals suddenly change how they operate? Somewhere around zero, right?

How does this change the nature of deal themselves? With no cap hits to consider, back-loaded deals become an instant joke. But without an ability to amortize money over time, teams will be very limited in the number of deals with big up-front money that they can offer.

Exactly. So even if the Bengals don't change they way they do business, and we both know they won't, they would be helped by other teams changing the way they do business. Nutshelled, without the ghost money and phantom years included in so many NFL contracts Mike Brown could find himself competing on a more equal footing with the rest of the NFL.

[HairOnFire]

It's Jerra and Dan being saved from themselves.

Hardly. Immediately after first imposing a salary cap player agents AND certain owners couldn't move quickly enough to exploit the signing bonus loophole that followed. And there's the rub because the effectiveness of any salary cap is determined by the principles willingness to adhere, not to it's rules, but rather to it's intent. Sadly, history has proven the NFL is filled with too many owners willing to ignore the intent of ANY salary cap. Some because they believe their own presumably greater wealth is an advantage to be exploited, and others who are simply more willing to correct short-term mistakes by applying vast gobs of money directly to the wound.

Bottom line: New rules, new loopholes.

[Sea Ray]

We're talking about the end of the signing bonus era here; a massive leveling of the playing field. No longer can a guy like Dan Snyder go out and give 5 guys 5-year deals with a $20 million signing bonus each and have the cap hit be $20 million plus their salaries that year.

I'm surprised such a system would be appealing to the players. By cutting down on signing bonuses they are also reducing the amount of guaranteed money. Kinda makes you wonder how much Antonio Bryant would have taken home under such a system. Certainly a lot less than $8mill

[HoosierCat]

Well, if every team suddenly starts doing business like the Bengals....what are the odds the Bengals suddenly change how they operate? Somewhere around zero, right?

Much higher, I'd think. Part of the reason Brown has acted as deliberately as he has in FA is that he knew he couldn't be financially competitive for top-tier players. But if, as we both agree, this new CBA levels the playing field, that changes.

Bottom line: New rules, new loopholes.

Could be. Like I said we don't know the details yet. But I don't see much reason for Dan and Jerry to object. A deal like this means bigger annual profits for them, and Jerry can pay off the note on his new sports Taj Mahal faster. And it's not like spending insanely has produced either one a Lombardi...

[HoosierCat]

I'm surprised such a system would be appealing to the players.

Me, too. But if you believe reports coming out of all the "secret" negotiations, the players have their own demands, including an end to franchise and transition tags.

[HairOnFire]

Well, if every team suddenly starts doing business like the Bengals....what are the odds the Bengals suddenly change how they operate? Somewhere around zero, right?

Much higher, I'd think.

Fair enough. For the time being let's post the odds at 0.9, a fairly realistic number that still allows guys like you to have hope that a big FA signing is now just around the next corner.

Part of the reason Brown has acted as deliberately as he has in FA is that he knew he couldn't be financially competitive for top-tier players. But if, as we both agree, this new CBA levels the playing field, that changes.

Without loopholes the playing field might be more equal but I'm guessing Mike Brown will continue chasing the same 2nd and 3rd level FA's as he always has. Because again, doing business the Bengal way dictates a team search for it's own superstar players in the draft, not overpaying for another teams star player in FA.

[Sea Ray]

Me, too. But if you believe reports coming out of all the "secret" negotiations, the players have their own demands, including an end to franchise and transition tags.

From everything I'm hearing the franchise tags are staying

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Do you seriously think the Browns can't figure out the cap? It's not rocket science, and the Bengals front office, more than a football operation, is basically a law firm. I'm not saying they don't need a gm for football operations, but figuring out contracts is not an issue for them.

The Bengals don't manage the cap, they manage the floor.

[COB]

Do you seriously think the Browns can't figure out the cap? It's not rocket science, and the Bengals front office, more than a football operation, is basically a law firm. I'm not saying they don't need a gm for football operations, but figuring out contracts is not an issue for them.

The Bengals don't manage the cap, they manage the floor.

Ha, good one. I seem to recall them spending pretty close to the cap, not the floor. But don't let facts get in the way of some good old Bengals hate.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Ha, good one. I seem to recall them spending pretty close to the cap, not the floor. But don't let facts get in the way of some good old Bengals hate.

There have been numerous years where they end up with significant cap space that they end up not using. Guess it depends on whether you're using the old 'horseshoes and handgrenades' definition of 'close'.

[BengalPimp]

Me, too. But if you believe reports coming out of all the "secret" negotiations, the players have their own demands, including an end to franchise and transition tags.

From everything I'm hearing the franchise tags are staying

NFL Owners will never give up the Franchise Tag. Especially if they open up spending like the rumors suggest. Owners will fight to the end for the right to restrict at least 1 player from leaving each season (or be handsomely rewarded if lost). To give up the "Tag" is to give up Power.....The owners will concede money, but not Power.

......We may see some changes to the "Transition Tag" but not the "Franchise"

[BengalPimp]

Prisco lists his top 50 FA's here:

http://www.cbssports...ll-up-deep-pool

Ranks JJ No. 3 overall, suggesting he'll be in demand. And he has Nnamdi at No. 1 and thinks he could be the NFL's highest-paid defender when the dust settles, which will only drive up JJ's value. On the flip side he has a bunch of corners among his top 50 so the deep class might hold prices down a bit.

Michael Huff #11 but Weddle #6 ?.............I like Weddle (Prisco ranked #6) but if I had a choice? No question I would go with Huff. While they are both good tacklers and good in coverage (with Huff getting just a little more INT's) the big advantage is what you saw Oakland do with him last year. They sent him after the QB more on a Safety Blitz which resulted in 4 Sacks (which would have been good for 2nd best on the Bengals last year behind Dunlap).....I'd like to see what Zimmer could do with Huff (Especially with solid cover guys like Hall & JJoe)......Good Tackler, Good in Coverage, good at getting to QB, just a very solid all around Safety who's best years are ahead of him.

Dig the Sig

[Takeo51]

Prisco lists his top 50 FA's here:

http://www.cbssports...ll-up-deep-pool

Ranks JJ No. 3 overall, suggesting he'll be in demand. And he has Nnamdi at No. 1 and thinks he could be the NFL's highest-paid defender when the dust settles, which will only drive up JJ's value. On the flip side he has a bunch of corners among his top 50 so the deep class might hold prices down a bit.

Michael Huff #11 but Weddle #6 ?.............I like Weddle (Prisco ranked #6) but if I had a choice? No question I would go with Huff. While they are both good tacklers and good in coverage (with Huff getting just a little more INT's) the big advantage is what you saw Oakland do with him last year. They sent him after the QB more on a Safety Blitz which resulted in 4 Sacks (which would have been good for 2nd best on the Bengals last year behind Dunlap).....I'd like to see what Zimmer could do with Huff (Especially with solid cover guys like Hall & JJoe)......Good Tackler, Good in Coverage, good at getting to QB, just a very solid all around Safety who's best years are ahead of him.

Dig the Sig

careful what you wish for... http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/28/watching-michael-huff-in-practice-made-warren-sapp-want-to-vomit/