Carson Palmer Thread

[James_Brooks21]

So Palmer made a public appearance Saturday tailgating at the USC game. He told people that he was sticking to his guns and would not report to Cincinnati this year or any time in the future.

I guess ESPN is going to use this story to fill in space on there page when they don't have anything to report on, Palmer enjoying a weiner is not a story, unless it was the other weiner but I'm not going to go there. I was listening to the NFL channel on Sirius and they said they felt that the people that claim to be Falcons fans and cheer for Vick when he makes plays against Atlanta aren't real fans. I feel the same about people that claim to be Bengals fans but are on Palmer side, how can you root for a man that quit on your team, add to the situation it was clear that the Bengals catered to Palmer his whole time here. Mike Brown is garbage but I still can't root for someone that quit on the Bengals.

[cincy9275]

let see seahawks 0 steelers 24, carson value keeps increasing every week. dalton proved we don't need carson. mike brown pull your f**king head out of your ass and trade the bum! holding carson hostage for your own personal vendetta is f**king insane!

[cHaD711Johnson]

He'll be gone in the off-season with a higher bid for him. Mikey boy might look smart at the end of this all. Saves $11mill and gets a high pick for him, while also letting the QB of the future play.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Let the quiter rot at home watching his balls slowly bounce in the jar on the mantle piece.

[HoosierCat]

So maybe TJ wasn't the cancer? So it goes back to Chad and his childish behavior? Maybe it was Carson Palmer all along?

It sure looks like Palmer was a cancer. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight it's pretty clear that both TJ and Carson were disgruntled for some time before their break with the team -- TJ over money, Carson over who the hell knows. We've also heard that Carson made no secret of being unhappy in the locker room, while TJ commented publicly on the team's efforts to get him to sign a lowball extension prior to '08. In short, they both fit the classic definition of "locker room cancers."

On the other hand, I'm not sure Chad was ever a cancer per se. I don't think he ever commanded enough respect in the locker room to be taken seriously on that level. I think he was more of the "pampered diva everyone would privately roll their eyes over." That isn't to say that he didn't cause his own share of problems, but I don't think he would have made guys start eyeing the exits. OTOH, when the starting QB is disgruntled and wants out, you have to think that there's a rush for the lifeboats. Or just decide to goof off and play around on twitter and reality TV, like Chad.

[HairOnFire]

On the other hand, I'm not sure Chad was ever a cancer per se. I don't think he ever commanded enough respect in the locker room to be taken seriously on that level.

Don't go there.

[HairOnFire]

let see seahawks 0 steelers 24, carson value keeps increasing every week. dalton proved we don't need carson. mike brown pull your f**king head out of your ass and trade the bum! holding carson hostage for your own personal vendetta is f**king insane!

Funny you should mention this. Prior to the games this weekend the NFL Networks pregame show offered a tease about an upcoming story in regards to whether the Bengals were finally softening on their no-trade stance.

f**k that, I thought.

So anyways, I stick around and watch as Jason LaCanfora repeats the old news about how Palmer is working out and has let it be known everywhere how he isn't really retired from the NFL, he's just retired from the Bengals. Beyond that there were no updates. There were no developements. Nothing had changed.

As for the Bengals no-trade stance, there was nothing to report as well. No shifting stance. No recently softened position to report. In fact, all there was to the entire so-called story was Jason LaCanfora casually mentioning how the better Andy Dalton plays the more likely it will be that a day will come when the Bengals won't want Palmer back under any circumstances, and thus....MIGHT be more willing to part with him.

And pigs MIGHT fly.

Last point, if Carson Palmer's trade value really does increase with each week, as you claim, then Mike Brown's refusal to trade Palmer prior to this date isn't crazy at all.

Roadhouse!

[TJJackson]

*shrug*

Pigs may indeed fly - who is to say how desperate for immediate success the franchises are that are now learning just how bad their QB situation is?

Not I

Desperation raises the ante, and if the ante raises enough, even SoaG may reconsider his stance

After all, this piece is about the BUSINESS of football, and thats the playing field that SoaG is actually competent to compete on

[derekshank]

*shrug*

Pigs may indeed fly - who is to say how desperate for immediate success the franchises are that are now learning just how bad their QB situation is?

Not I

Well, true enough... but only two teams appear to be in dire straits right now. Seattle and Kansas City. Most other teams are either currently getting adequate QB play, or the believed QB of the future is on their roster.

Which also means it's primarily a two team race to Andrew Luck... with the consolation prize being Matt Barkley or Landry Jones. So I don't see either of those teams willing to give up much for Palmer.

I'm thinking Palmer may never be traded. But if he is, I don't think the best offer comes during the 2011 season. It'll be during the 2012 draft after the best QBs are off the board. But again... if I had to put money on it - Palmer is retired.

[Sea Ray]

Well, true enough... but only two teams appear to be in dire straits right now. Seattle and Kansas City. Most other teams are either currently getting adequate QB play, or the believed QB of the future is on their roster.

Which also means it's primarily a two team race to Andrew Luck... with the consolation prize being Matt Barkley or Landry Jones. So I don't see either of those teams willing to give up much for Palmer.

I'm thinking Palmer may never be traded. But if he is, I don't think the best offer comes during the 2011 season. It'll be during the 2012 draft after the best QBs are off the board. But again... if I had to put money on it - Palmer is retired.

You make a good point that the teams willing to give up the farm for Andrew Luck isn't as large as we might think but I do think there are a few other teams that would be willing to bid for him if given the chance. I'd add Miami for sure and also Washington and probably Indy. Right now Indy is my odds on favorite. Seattle seems horrible but they play in such an easy division and they have a huge homefield advantage that I feel they won't lose enough games to get that 1st or 2nd pick

[TJJackson]

Plus Carson *might* take a discount to play on the west coast

[derekshank]

I'd add Miami for sure and also Washington and probably Indy. Right now Indy is my odds on favorite. Seattle seems horrible but they play in such an easy division and they have a huge homefield advantage that I feel they won't lose enough games to get that 1st or 2nd pick

Sure. But none of those teams will currently give a large asking price for Carson Palmer.

Alex Smith, Rex Grossman and Chad Henne are performing well enough at present. Indy, in all likelihood, have Manning back next year... so they're just going to take their lumps this year and hope for the best next season.

My point being... at this point in the 2011 season, Carson Palmer isn't the solution to anyone's problem. If there will ever be a bidding war for Carson Palmer, it won't heat up until after the 2012 draft order is set in stone.

[Sea Ray]

I'd add Miami for sure and also Washington and probably Indy. Right now Indy is my odds on favorite. Seattle seems horrible but they play in such an easy division and they have a huge homefield advantage that I feel they won't lose enough games to get that 1st or 2nd pick

Sure. But none of those teams will currently give a large asking price for Carson Palmer.

Alex Smith, Rex Grossman and Chad Henne are performing well enough at present. Indy, in all likelihood, have Manning back next year... so they're just going to take their lumps this year and hope for the best next season.

My point being... at this point in the 2011 season, Carson Palmer isn't the solution to anyone's problem. If there will ever be a bidding war for Carson Palmer, it won't heat up until after the 2012 draft order is set in stone.

I agree. It's possible a team will desire Palmer due to an injury and they're on the verge of the playoffs but I agree they won't be willing to give up a ton for a rent a QB. Due to the lockout and MB's past, I never thought there'd be much chance of CP getting traded until the 2012 off season.

[BengalByTheBay]

It's possible a team will desire Palmer due to an injury and they're on the verge of the playoffs but I agree they won't be willing to give up a ton for a rent a QB.

Which gives rise to the obvious question - what's it cost to rent a douche for a few weeks these days???

[HairOnFire]

Sounds to me like you boys are dicussing the price of peanuts again.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Last point, if Carson Palmer's trade value really does increase with each week, as you claim, then Mike Brown's refusal to trade Palmer prior to this date isn't crazy at all.

You've been working that argument for 6 months. At some point, that situation, if it is true, will cease to be true. And I'd say that after week 2, it's fair to say that his value, if it is increasing, is probably at its peak. So frigging sell high, whydontcha?

I suspect the answer is because spite is worth more than wins, if you are Mr. Brown. No way he does it.

[jjakq27]

I think MB finally lets him go at some point after the season is over. I think he is making a point for all future "retirees" as well as Palmer.

Palmer is still an asset that the Bengals have that can be leveraged into something in the future. I really can't see him holding this position beyond this season...but I've been wrong before,

[HairOnFire]

Last point, if Carson Palmer's trade value really does increase with each week, as you claim, then Mike Brown's refusal to trade Palmer prior to this date isn't crazy at all.

You've been working that argument for 6 months.

No, I haven't.

The claim that Palmer's trade value increases daily wasn't mine, and my remarks above were offered in mocking response to a rant I don't believe to be true.

So let's recap the core points of the rant I've been working for 6 months.

A- The market for Palmer's services will be just as strong next year as it is now.

B- Palmer's trade value, now and then, will be largely unchanged.

C- Palmer's trade value, now and then, isn't nearly as high as most of you think.

D- Peanuts can be a wonderful snack, but there are times when I'd prefer not to eat them.

E- f**k Carson Palmer

[Spor_tees]

Last point, if Carson Palmer's trade value really does increase with each week, as you claim, then Mike Brown's refusal to trade Palmer prior to this date isn't crazy at all.

You've been working that argument for 6 months.

No, I haven't.

The claim that Palmer's trade value increases daily wasn't mine, and my remarks above were offered in mocking response to a rant I don't believe to be true.

So let's recap the core points of the rant I've been working for 6 months.

A- The market for Palmer's services will be just as strong next year as it is now.

B- Palmer's trade value, now and then, will be largely unchanged.

C- Palmer's trade value, now and then, isn't nearly as high as most of you think.

D- Peanuts can be a wonderful snack, but there are times when I'd prefer not to eat them.

E- f**k Carson Palmer

Anything Mike Brown gets from another team is more than he is getting from Carson Palmer throwing footballs to TJ at some High School in California. Now when it comes to punishing Palmer for not living up to the large contract he was given, there are only a couple of people that know what kind of side agreement Palmer had with Mike Brown to make changes. Obviously not many changes have been made, so thats that. It might all come down to the fact that Mike Brown might think the value of Palmer NOT making an impact in the NFL is worth more than what he would get in exchange for him in trade.

[HairOnFire]

Anything Mike Brown gets from another team is more than he is getting from Carson Palmer throwing footballs to TJ at some High School in California.

Please refer to point D in my previous post. (Peanuts/Prefer to NOT Eat)

Frankly, it's all well and good to argue that getting anything for Palmer is better than getting nothing, but IMHO it's intellectually lazy. Life is filled with numerous examples where no action is taken simply because the return isn't substantial enough to justify a change in position. In fact, I can easily envision many scenarios where Palmer is traded, but for far less than the Trade Palmer crowd would imagine OR support....quickly leading to a negative reaction from the very same people who once argued that anything was better than nothing.

And I'll now repeat something I DID say six months ago immediately after this story broke.

In this example there is value to be gained from getting nothing for Palmer. Because as crazy as it might sound the message being sent to Palmer, and others, has real value regardless of whether you agree with it or not. In fact, the entire industry known as advertising is built upon the premise of corporations and businesses sending expensive and not-so-subtle messages to a small and very select demographic.

[skyline]

Can Palmer play WR? I hear we have an opening.

[Spor_tees]

Anything Mike Brown gets from another team is more than he is getting from Carson Palmer throwing footballs to TJ at some High School in California.

Please refer to point D in my previous post. (Peanuts/Prefer to NOT Eat)

Frankly, it's all well and good to argue that getting anything for Palmer is better than getting nothing, but IMHO it's intellectually lazy. Life is filled with numerous examples where no action is taken simply because the return isn't substantial enough to justify a change in position. In fact, I can easily envision many scenarios where Palmer is traded, but for far less than the Trade Palmer crowd would imagine OR support....quickly leading to a negative reaction from the very same people who once argued that anything was better than nothing.

And I'll now repeat something I DID say six months ago immediately after this story broke.

In this example there is value to be gained from getting nothing for Palmer. Because as crazy as it might sound the message being sent to Palmer, and others, has real value regardless of whether you agree with it or not. In fact, the entire industry known as advertising is built upon the premise of corporations and businesses sending expensive and not-so-subtle messages to a small and very select demographic.

How many millions of dollars do you think Palmer is losing in endorsements from not playing in the NFL?

[HairOnFire]

How many millions of dollars do you think Palmer is losing in endorsements from not playing in the NFL?

It can't be that much. The only time I can remember Carson Palmer being a part of a national ad campaign was his rookie season when he played sidekick to Ray Lewis in a potato chip commercial. Beyond that all I can recall are local area furniture ads and the unfortunate deep throating of a hot dog.

[derekshank]

It might all come down to the fact that Mike Brown might think the value of Palmer NOT making an impact in the NFL is worth more than what he would get in exchange for him in trade.

Yep. And it makes sense.

What is Palmer’s actual trade value? Given the fact that the team who trades for him is also signing up for an $11.5 million contract, I’m betting the return the Bengals would receive would be, as Hair puts it, “peanuts.”

Very few teams have that kind of cap space available, and even fewer would want to use it all up on a QB like Palmer. He’s on the wrong side of 30, lacks leadership abilities, and hasn’t performed well on the field in over 3 years.

If Mike Brown would trade Palmer for current market value, I’d bet he would be destroyed by the national media for accepting a low-ball offer. If Palmer went on to have any success whatsoever, Brown is a guy who got the short end of the stick on the trade, and is further lambasted by fans.

Frankly, the sentiment that Brown is hurting the team by refusing to trade Palmer is laughable. The damage to this team was done entirely by Palmer… and the compensation the Bengals could get in return for him is likely to be so small it would go largely unnoticed as a means for repairing the damage that has already been inflicted.

And if that’s the best you can get in return, well… F*ck Carson Palmer.

[HairOnFire]

Frankly, the sentiment that Brown is hurting the team by refusing to trade Palmer is laughable. The damage to this team was done entirely by Palmer… and the compensation the Bengals could get in return for him is likely to be so small it would go largely unnoticed as a means for repairing the damage that has already been inflicted.

And if that’s the best you can get in return, well… F*ck Carson Palmer.

And there it is. The argument I've been working for six months, boiled down to the bone, and stated far more better than I could have managed.

I admit I do tend to distract myself from time to time.

[insert Bird Photo]