Carson is 6th in passing yards

[jonahdsage]

Not sure if this is the best overall stat to hold onto but it's still a little surprising given the reaction most people have to carson's play this year. So, offensively, the bengals have the #6 quarterback (passing yards this season) and are ranked as the #6 offense.

Such an odd, odd season.

[COB]

So sad, we had it last year. We smashmouthed and played hard defense. Then we faltered at the end, so Mike panicked and loaded up on passing game additions, only to learn the same lesson for the millionth time.

All that talk at the end of the season claiming we can't win just running, we have to be a passing team? Totally wrong. It wasn't what we were doing. We just needed to do it better.

Pretty bitter pill to swallow listening to pundits this year say the best teams are the teams that do just what we did last year. The Jets run the ball and play D. The Steelers. The Ravens. Even the Browns put on an AFC North clinic last week, just shoving the ball down the throats of the Patriots.

We're not that far off, we've got the running back, and we still have a line that can run block. Without blowing the whole team up, this team could be reconfigured and come out strong next year. But it will never happen with Bob Bratkowski running the offense, it will never happen letting Carson call personnel shots from California, and it will never happen with Chad Johnson on this team.

[walzav29]

I was thinking about this yesterday. Last year we could have very easily been 1-5 to start last season. They had last second wins vs Pitt, Balt, and Cleveland, and even Green Bay was stopped just short of tying the game in week 2 last year. This season. Let's say we had last years luck. Cleve, TB, and Pitt would leave us at 5-3. The fact is the team did falter last season and they did need to become more explosive to go to the Super Bowl. They need to put the WHOLE team together.

[Sea Ray]

Going back to smashmouth offense won't solve the defense and special teams shortcomings of this team. That sort of offense only works if the defense is stout and the special teams aren't missing FGs and fumbling opening KOs.

I think Bratkowski has handled the offense horribly and he is #1 on my firing line but the losing this year goes way beyond him

[walzav29]

Going back to smashmouth offense won't solve the defense and special teams shortcomings of this team. That sort of offense only works if the defense is stout and the special teams aren't missing FGs and fumbling opening KOs.

I think Bratkowski has handled the offense horribly and he is #1 on my firing line but the losing this year goes way beyond him

Yes. Completely agree.

[HairOnFire]

Going back to smashmouth offense won't solve the defense and special teams shortcomings of this team.

It couldn't hurt. The Bengals erratic performance in the passing game has resulted in a miserable record on 3rd down, and the inept performance in the Red Zone has resulted in game after game where the Bengals score almost no points in the 1st half...crippling their own running game. Plus, the staggering number of 3 and outs puts enormous pressure on a defense that admittedly has plenty of it's own problems. Furthermore, the shift from power football denies the Bengals an opportunity to portray themselves as tough physicfal football players. And there's the rub because just one player can change not only a teams image, but it's perception of itself. For example, look at what the addition of Payton Hillis has done for the Browns. Now consider what message is being sent by building an offense around Chad "Estaban" Ochocinco and his far superior sidekick.

Finally, the Bengals are one of a growing number of teams who cast off proven special team performers in favor of fringe offensive skill position players. In fact, they just added another one by moving Chase Coffman to the active roster.

That sort of offense only works if the defense is stout and the special teams aren't missing FGs and fumbling opening KOs.

The poor execution argument is valid, but only to a point and IMHO is too often it's used as an excuse intended to absove the Bengals coaching staff for adopting a failed overall strategy. Obviously no team, including the Bengals, can win when making mistake after mistake. But shouldn't we be asking ourselves why the mistakes are being made? What are the Bengals attempting to do when most of the mistakes happen? What types of things can't they get right no matter how often they try? For example, what in f**ks sake are they doing on 3rd and 2 and why isn't it working? Focus on fixing things that you face numerous times in every game before you start obsessing about rare but critical mistakes like a fumbled kick return or a perfectly thrown pass that was dropped by Jordan Shipley.

I think Bratkowski has handled the offense horribly and he is #1 on my firing line but the losing this year goes way beyond him

And there it is. The blame belongs everywhere because the mistakes have been made everywhere by nearly everyone. But by far the biggest portion of blame rests at the feet of Bratkowski, both for building a flawed creation AND for mismanaging it's players, gameplans, and playcalling. And most important, Bratkowski's failure will be no less even if this teams offense suddenly begins to show true competence. Because at this point it's nearly irrelevant.

Point blank, the constant attempts of Bengal fans to blame everyone involved equally is misguided. All others who deserve blame need to get in line behind Bratkowski. Furthermore, Bengal fans need to recognize this fact ASAP and they can start by refusing to prop up crap stats that imply a level of competence that simply isn't being demonstrated.

[jonahdsage]

Bengal fans need to recognize this fact ASAP and they can start by refusing to prop up crap stats that imply a level of competence that simply isn't being demonstrated.

There is a level of competence on offense that is more illustrative of the problems than it is of bengals' fans having their head in the sand. Carson is #6 in yards thrown, bengals have the #6 total offense, T.O. is the #3 wide receiver in the league and they are #3 in fewest sacks allowed. There are rough stats, especially on the defensive side of the ball, but these kinds of stats seem like ingredients for winning. Top ten offense, a top 3 wide receiver, top 3 in fewest sacks allowed. Who wouldn't take that year after year?

The point is with how much our offense has looked inconsistent and sputtering, as much as we've shot ourselves in the foot consistently, we have still lost all but one of our games by one score. That becomes so incredibly discouraging when we look at the performance of our defense compared to last year and, most of all, our overall record. Last year everyone whined about not airing it out, hating winning these games so ugly etc. Who wouldn't take that back now?

All that to say it's not on carson, it's not on chad, it's not on andre smith or dhani jones etc etc. It has to be on the coaches. Indirectly we can put some on SoP for keeping brat around, but the majority of the blame has to go on Brat, Marv and, I hate to say it, Zimmer. There's more I could rant about, but I promise you if this exact team, every single player, was the roster for New England this team would be real close to undefeated. Marv and Brat are gone this year (I've been a huge marv fan, pains me to think of who will replace him).

Screw it. Let's run the table and make things interesting.

[BengalByTheBay]

For example, what in f**ks sake are they doing on 3rd and 2 and why isn't it working?

THIS is what can be changed immediately without any personnel shift or even any impact on any other aspect of the game. It can be implemented right now and will pay dividends immediately. No shotgun on third and short. Hand the ball off to Cedric and convert at more than a 50% pace. I completely believe this single change would drastically improve TOP, 3 & outs, and would allow a reasonable number of play action opportunities, especially later in the game. Who among us didn't feel like turning off the tv on Monday when they snapped from the shotgun on 3rd and *uck*** 1 in the first quarter?!?

[derekshank]

Who among us didn't feel like turning off the tv on Monday when they snapped from the shotgun on 3rd and *uck*** 1 in the first quarter?!?

I was at the game... so I was forced to continue watching or else admit I had wasted $150. But I'm with you. When they went shotgun in that situation, I said to my wife "I don't care that much that they want to throw the ball on 3rd down, but at least let the defense think you might run the ball on 3rd and short."

It's f*cking retarded to run on 1st and 2nd down for 8 yards and then go 4 wide on 3rd and short. F*cking unbelievable.

[kingwilly]

Who among us didn't feel like turning off the tv on Monday when they snapped from the shotgun on 3rd and *uck*** 1 in the first quarter?!?

I was at the game... so I was forced to continue watching or else admit I had wasted $150. But I'm with you. When they went shotgun in that situation, I said to my wife "I don't care that much that they want to throw the ball on 3rd down, but at least let the defense think you might run the ball on 3rd and short."

It's f*cking retarded to run on 1st and 2nd down for 8 yards and then go 4 wide on 3rd and short. F*cking unbelievable.

When is the last time they ran a draw to Bernard Scott on 3rd down?

I dare anyone to argue that Brat has any sense of what he is doing.

[HoosierCat]

Going back to smashmouth offense won't solve the defense and special teams shortcomings of this team.

Yup. Last year, the Bengals were 7-1 when allowing 14 or fewer points. Would have been 8-0 if not for the Immaculate Deflection. And of the three wins when the other team scored more than 14, two were 3-point victories that included a defensive score. This season, they are 2-0 when allowing 14 or fewer points, 0-6 when allowing more. And the one defender who managed to score this season is out for the year.

[volcom69]

Going back to smashmouth offense won't solve the defense and special teams shortcomings of this team.

Yup. Last year, the Bengals were 7-1 when allowing 14 or fewer points. Would have been 8-0 if not for the Immaculate Deflection. And of the three wins when the other team scored more than 14, two were 3-point victories that included a defensive score. This season, they are 2-0 when allowing 14 or fewer points, 0-6 when allowing more. And the one defender who managed to score this season is out for the year.

Yea this defense has lost its toughness, but i cant figure out what changed from one year to the other. If anything the defense was supposed to still be the strength of the team, and if it was i could the Bengals actully having a winning record or at least close to it. Its the same players as last year, the same coach, not sure what changed.

One thing i do notice is on defense they are missing that tough guy. I thought it was going to be Rey, but i have been so disapointed with his play. He is not playing very fast, or very physical right now. He is whiffing on tackles, and getting knocked over when trying to blitz. He was so mad because he wasnt a first round pick, but so far i can see why other teams have passed on him, and it looks like we missed out on the best usc defense LB. Somebody on defense needs to step up!

[jjakq27]

Who among us didn't feel like turning off the tv on Monday when they snapped from the shotgun on 3rd and *uck*** 1 in the first quarter?!?

I was at the game... so I was forced to continue watching or else admit I had wasted $150. But I'm with you. When they went shotgun in that situation, I said to my wife "I don't care that much that they want to throw the ball on 3rd down, but at least let the defense think you might run the ball on 3rd and short."

It's f*cking retarded to run on 1st and 2nd down for 8 yards and then go 4 wide on 3rd and short. F*cking unbelievable.

When is the last time they ran a draw to Bernard Scott on 3rd down?

I dare anyone to argue that Brat has any sense of what he is doing.

I wonder how much of it is Benson lobbying to stay in on 3rd down.

[HoosierCat]

Yea this defense has lost its toughness, but i cant figure out what changed from one year to the other.

Biggest thing I see is no pressure from the d-line. Odom's failure to come back and Fanene's injury have been underrated, IMHO.

And there's the usual "failure to launch." Like you said, Rey's disappointed. MJ hasn't been the force we hoped, though like they did with Geathers I wonder if the coaching staff isn't screwing up his development moving him around so much. And it's bled over to teams. Remind me again why we cut Jeanty and Hebert? Have Mukelroy and whatshisface that safety we traded for done squat?

What was it Gruden was babbling about Monday night? Something about how the Bengals have a lot of "potential" but in the NFL "potential" means you haven't done anything yet? That about sums it up. The Bengals, as usual, are up to their a**es in potential. Results? Still working on that. Please hold. Your call will be answered in the order in which it was received...

[volcom69]

Yea this defense has lost its toughness, but i cant figure out what changed from one year to the other.

Biggest thing I see is no pressure from the d-line. Odom's failure to come back and Fanene's injury have been underrated, IMHO.

And there's the usual "failure to launch." Like you said, Rey's disappointed. MJ hasn't been the force we hoped, though like they did with Geathers I wonder if the coaching staff isn't screwing up his development moving him around so much. And it's bled over to teams. Remind me again why we cut Jeanty and Hebert? Have Mukelroy and whatshisface that safety we traded for done squat?

What was it Gruden was babbling about Monday night? Something about how the Bengals have a lot of "potential" but in the NFL "potential" means you haven't done anything yet? That about sums it up. The Bengals, as usual, are up to their a**es in potential. Results? Still working on that. Please hold. Your call will be answered in the order in which it was received...

I hate the fact that they keep trying to make guys switch postions. Keep MJ as a DE, let him learn to rush the passer with his hand on the ground. Unless they are making a switch to 34 defense then quite doing it. Same with your normal DE, quite trying to make them DT. Also let the young kids play on defense give them all the snaps, i liked what i saw from them, and they can bench Geathers for all i care.

[BengalPimp]

Who among us didn't feel like turning off the tv on Monday when they snapped from the shotgun on 3rd and *uck*** 1 in the first quarter?!?

I was at the game... so I was forced to continue watching or else admit I had wasted $150. But I'm with you. When they went shotgun in that situation, I said to my wife "I don't care that much that they want to throw the ball on 3rd down, but at least let the defense think you might run the ball on 3rd and short."

It's f*cking retarded to run on 1st and 2nd down for 8 yards and then go 4 wide on 3rd and short. F*cking unbelievable.

When is the last time they ran a draw to Bernard Scott on 3rd down?

I dare anyone to argue that Brat has any sense of what he is doing.

I've been yelling for more Scott....But people want more Benson, even though he SUCKS...Benson's 3.7 Average is WORST among the top 30 rushers in the NFL (correction top 29 as #30 Jahvid Best is actually worse at 3.2) 3 Rushing TD's in 6 games? A long run of 22 yards?(also worst among the top 30 rushers) Benson Sucks, had 1 decent year in his career, we need a new RB, be it Bernard Scott or through the draft....F*ck smashmouth...It doesn't work when your RB gets 3 yards a carry....That would STILL put you in a passing situation on 3rd down.......

[COB]

.F*ck smashmouth...It doesn't work when your RB gets 3 yards a carry....That would STILL put you in a passing situation on 3rd down.......

When did the collective consciousness of Bob Bratkowski and Mike Brown start posting on Bengalszone?

[HairOnFire]

Top ten offense, a top 3 wide receiver, top 3 in fewest sacks allowed. Who wouldn't take that year after year?

I'll take it, but it's not what I want. And I simply can't overstate that point. It's not what I want. Or to put it differently, there's a long list of other things that I want more, and nothing mentioned above is helping me get what I really desperately want. In fact, I have no clue why anyone would want the above under these circumstances.

It has to be on the coaches. Indirectly we can put some on SoP for keeping brat around, but the majority of the blame has to go on Brat, Marv and, I hate to say it, Zimmer.

Dead on.

And here's the best part. Our cake may be made out of s**t but someone was kind enough to cover with with delicous icing. And I feel I can say that precisely because the very worst coaching performance is also the easiest to defend with statistics.

Last year everyone whined about not airing it out, hating winning these games so ugly etc. Who wouldn't take that back now?

I can think of at least two.

Hoosier and Joe Pong.

Marv and Brat are gone this year (I've been a huge marv fan, pains me to think of who will replace him).

I'm starting to wonder/worry about that. After all, they can both deflect criticism by pointing out how this team has a Top#10 offense, a Top#3 WR, an an offensive line that gives up the 3rd fewest sacks allowed.

[BengalByTheBay]

Who among us didn't feel like turning off the tv on Monday when they snapped from the shotgun on 3rd and *uck*** 1 in the first quarter?!?

I was at the game... so I was forced to continue watching or else admit I had wasted $150. But I'm with you. When they went shotgun in that situation, I said to my wife "I don't care that much that they want to throw the ball on 3rd down, but at least let the defense think you might run the ball on 3rd and short."

It's f*cking retarded to run on 1st and 2nd down for 8 yards and then go 4 wide on 3rd and short. F*cking unbelievable.

When is the last time they ran a draw to Bernard Scott on 3rd down?

I dare anyone to argue that Brat has any sense of what he is doing.

Do they even have a draw in the playbook anymore or was that deleted in favor of the shovel pass. Sucks because Wyche used to use that even on 3rd & long and it often worked.

[HairOnFire]

I hate the fact that they keep trying to make guys switch postions. Keep MJ as a DE, let him learn to rush the passer with his hand on the ground. Unless they are making a switch to 34 defense then quite doing it. Same with your normal DE, quite trying to make them DT.

I no longer think of things like the above as a switch in positions so much as a blurring or blending of roles. And for whatever it's worth I'm good with it. In fact, I like 3rd down packages based upon a 4 man front featuring nothing but DE's. And put me in the camp that want's to see MJ used as a hybrid...as long as his primary role is at DE. But mostly put me in the camp that think the Bengals biggest defensive weakness is not having a truly gifted SMALLER pass rusher. A quick-twitch roughly 250 pound rapidly SPINNING ball of butcher knives. A guy so good you essentially adopt a 10-man defensive scheme with an added joker.

And before someone mentions which ProBowl player you've just been reminded of...(ahem)...well, just don't.

Also let the young kids play on defense give them all the snaps, i liked what i saw from them, and they can bench Geathers for all i care.

Carlos Dunlap and Michael Johnson are two names that quickly spring to mind when I think about the roster talent that was wasted while a season was being lost. And while neither player is the rolling ball of knive type mentioned earlier Dunlap has the ability to redefine the Elephant DE role the Bengals seem to favor. Yet somehow the so-called Z-fense couldn't find any snaps for the Bengals 2nd round pick even when Antwan Odom was struggling and Jonathan Fanene was out?

As for Geathers, there are rumors about him being physically worn down to a point that he'll never be the player he never really was again. But he's not injured...so he plays. Which until very recently meant Micheal "Outside-Containment" Johnson didn't.

[jonahdsage]

I'm starting to wonder/worry about that. After all, they can both deflect criticism by pointing out how this team has a Top#10 offense, a Top#3 WR, an an offensive line that gives up the 3rd fewest sacks allowed.

I doubt Brat will be gone -- I just don't see him getting fired ever. Marvin just looks so, so tired and so, so frustrated. I know Mikey said before the season that he can coach here as long as he would like but, it seems to me, Marvin will pull himself out for two reasons:

1) He's exhausted and tired of losing

2) He knows he can't do any better (or, in other words, isn't better than a .500 coach)

[HairOnFire]

When is the last time they ran a draw to Bernard Scott on 3rd down?

A draw play is still a running play, right?

It seems to me they either throw downfield on 3rd and long or screen pass, often using the TE, but occasionaly a back or WR.

[HoosierCat]

Last year everyone whined about not airing it out, hating winning these games so ugly etc. Who wouldn't take that back now?

I can think of at least two.

Hoosier and Joe Pong.

I would be happy to take it back had I said anything of the sort.

[HairOnFire]

Last year everyone whined about not airing it out, hating winning these games so ugly etc. Who wouldn't take that back now?

I can think of at least two.

Hoosier and Joe Pong.

I would be happy to take it back had I said anything of the sort.

Failure is always an orphan.

Despite your denial what we're seeing is the direct result of everything you and Joe have begged for years and years, and from soup to nuts. And because there's nothing left to explain why it isn't working you repeatedly and consistently use crap stats to show how it actually is working. Or you blame the execution, as if they're almost there, they've almost got it, and just a little more time is needed before this thing is running like a well oiled machine or a finely tuned watch or clock.

[HoosierCat]

Despite your denial what we're seeing is the direct result of everything you and Joe have begged for years and years

Woah, woah, woah. "Years and years"? Jonah's comment specifically asked about people complaining that they didn't air it out last year. I wasn't saying that, and actually can't think of anyone who was, even Joe. Lamenting that they couldn't air it out because all they had was a triple-covered Chad and a big pile o crap at wideout, yeah, there was a lot of that. But no one was calling for them to throw more last year, because there was no one to throw to.

And because there's nothing left to explain why it isn't working you repeatedly and consistently use crap stats to show how it actually is working.

And where was this? I haven't said much about this year's offense except to point out that when you actually look at the play selection this year vs. last year, the much-ballyhooed change in offensive philosophy isn't all that pronounced.

Or you blame the execution

Well, yes, I do believe in actually blaming the players for fumbling, missing tackles, committing stupid penalties, missing assignments, etc. Crazy, I know: if Marvin and Mikey won't hold them accountable, why should I? Guess I'm just old-fashioned.