Bengals v Bills Preseason Game 4

[JoeMama]

Wow, it just keeps getting worse for Baltimore.

I see them as the biggest competition for the division crown.

And coincidentally, the Bengals hugely upgraded their receivers while the Ravens are injury riddled in the secondary.

Should be a repeat in the North for the Beng-Bengs.

What is a Beng-Beng? Sounds like something my 3 year old would say.

It's something someone who is a fan of another team would say to try and sound like a fan as they build a post count to troll the site.

It's a term of endearment. Like calling your ugly 3 year three old precious.

I'm giving the Bengals props, dumbass.

A little harsh. You keep trashing my three year old and we will have a problem. Your use of the term Beng-Beng just hit me as a little childish, now I see that assumption was correct. Grow up and put some thought behind your comments, we already have enough name-callers here.

My three year old is far from precious, but only I get to say so.

Well, we're off to a good start, huh?

Anyway, all that stupid stuff aside, know that I'm not here to "troll" or whatever it was you said. I like the Bengals and throw moral support their way - except on Nov. 21st.

[JoeMama]

No way. Fitz is just like JTOS. He is awful.

I honestly would prefer to have Duante Culpepper or Jeff Rowe...

Seriously, I have never understood why JT O'Sullivan is still on an NFL roster.

When SF signed him a few years ago (presumably because of his connections to Mike Martz in Detroit), I figured it would end bad. It did.

I don't think O'Sullivan will be in Cincy in 2011. The guy just isn't good.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Wow, it just keeps getting worse for Baltimore.

I see them as the biggest competition for the division crown.

And coincidentally, the Bengals hugely upgraded their receivers while the Ravens are injury riddled in the secondary.

Should be a repeat in the North for the Beng-Bengs.

What is a Beng-Beng? Sounds like something my 3 year old would say.

It's something someone who is a fan of another team would say to try and sound like a fan as they build a post count to troll the site.

It's a term of endearment. Like calling your ugly 3 year three old precious.

I'm giving the Bengals props, dumbass.

A little harsh. You keep trashing my three year old and we will have a problem. Your use of the term Beng-Beng just hit me as a little childish, now I see that assumption was correct. Grow up and put some thought behind your comments, we already have enough name-callers here.

My three year old is far from precious, but only I get to say so.

Well, we're off to a good start, huh?

Anyway, all that stupid stuff aside, know that I'm not here to "troll" or whatever it was you said. I like the Bengals and throw moral support their way - except on Nov. 21st.

No hard feelings at all, very glad to have another interested football fan here to talk with.

I will wish your Bills good luck on every game except when the Bengals play them. The Bills are much better to have winning, than the Pats or Jets.

[JoeMama]

No hard feelings at all, very glad to have another interested football fan here to talk with.

I will wish your Bills good luck on every game except when the Bengals play them. The Bills are much better to have winning, than the Pats or Jets.

Agreed.

And here's the thing. I think the Jets take a huge step back this year. Sanchez wasn't very good last season and most QBs go through a sophomore slump. Revis Island is still at a lengthy impasse (today the Jets admitted they don't even know where he is). They lost their locker room leader, Thomas Jones, and many players are on record as being angry over his release. And most importantly, they aren't sneaking up on anyone this year. It's a different ball game when everybody's gunning for you.

You guys probably hate the Jets as much as we do. So when they crash and burn it should be enjoyable.

[ArmyBengal]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think NFL Network is showing a rerun of the Bills game tonight at around 7 or 8 pm.

For those that missed it or would like to look for something in particular.

[HairOnFire]

Safety is this year's TE position -- injuries are just killing us and it isn't even week 1.

[Kazkal]

Safety is this year's TE position -- injuries are just killing us and it isn't even week 1.

I wouldn't quite say that we loss a 4th person on the depth chart and that's it...I've heard nothing to Imply Roy,Crocker or Ndukwe won't be ready for week one it just seems like they were resting vs the bills.

[volcom69]

Safety is this year's TE position -- injuries are just killing us and it isn't even week 1.

I wouldn't quite say that we loss a 4th person on the depth chart and that's it...I've heard nothing to Imply Roy,Crocker or Ndukwe won't be ready for week one it just seems like they were resting vs the bills.

Crocker is ok he wasnt even injured they just didnt play him. Roy practiced today, but Ndukwe didnt his injury is (unknown) so i wonder what is wrong with him.

Im going to watch the game again just to watch the defense. I know guys dont worry about the defense, but with the teams they play this year im very concerned. Im just waiting to see the pass rush, somebody needs to step up and so far Odom does not look himself at all. Somebody step up!!!

[Stripes]

Safety is this year's TE position -- injuries are just killing us and it isn't even week 1.

I wouldn't quite say that we loss a 4th person on the depth chart and that's it...I've heard nothing to Imply Roy,Crocker or Ndukwe won't be ready for week one it just seems like they were resting vs the bills.

Yup.

Preseason dingers are still worrisome though, since any dumb little thing has the potential to nag. We're in better shape than we have been lately though. The offensive line was decimated in 2006, the linebackers in 2007, starting quarterback in 2008, and tight ends in 2009. Nothing quite so horrendus has befallen us yet, thankfully.

[BengalByTheBay]

Safety is this year's TE position -- injuries are just killing us and it isn't even week 1.

I wouldn't quite say that we loss a 4th person on the depth chart and that's it...I've heard nothing to Imply Roy,Crocker or Ndukwe won't be ready for week one it just seems like they were resting vs the bills.

Yup.

Preseason dingers are still worrisome though, since any dumb little thing has the potential to nag. We're in better shape than we have been lately though. The offensive line was decimated in 2006, the linebackers in 2007, starting quarterback in 2008, and tight ends in 2009. Nothing quite so horrendus has befallen us yet, thankfully.

Oh no you di'ant

[wpeldios]

A few things about the 2009 defense to put some things in perspective this pre-season.

1) The defense had plenty of games where it looked pretty bad last year. Good passing attacks (GB, SD, MIN, Hou) made them look straight mediocre at times.

2) The run/run/run offense, though lacking explosion, made the defense appear more dominant than they were. The offense gave the defense a ton of rest with long 8 minute drives. It also lessened the number of plays in a given game by running off the clock with very few incomplete passes and almost no quick strikes to the endzone.

3) Utter domination of weak teams (Chi, Det, KC, Cle x2) may have improperly elevated the defense to top 5 status. Consider that Bal, Cin, and Pit defenses finished 3rd, 4th, and 5th in the NFL. Schedule may have played a part.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the defense. It was very stout against some very good teams. It is still the strength of this team. That said, the offensive changes will likely hurt the defense statistically, and the number of pass-happy teams on the schedule will likely push the Bengals defense out of the top 5 statistically. I'm guessing they'll finish closer to 10th.

On the positive side, the Bengals should be a much more complete team this year, and the offense may just be able to pull out a game or two when the defense doesn't play its best.

In some of those "utter domination" of weak teams, we gave up some legitimate yards. Ignoring the Jets game in which we simply laid down. In the weak teams you mentioned, we allowed an average of 277 yards. The highest in that group being 395 to cleveland, and the lowest being 169 to cleveland. If you take out the 169 game to cleveland its 303.

in the other games, we allowed an average of 311. so it is 34 yards difference. If you take out the houston game, its down to 293 so 16 yards apart. The houston game was the only game that the bengals allowed over 400 yards, at 472.

The 5 worst games, Houston 472, Cleveland 395, Pittsburgh 373, San Diego 366, and Minnesota 322

The 5 best games, Cleveland 169, Baltimore 215, Pittsburgh 218, Detroit 245, Baltimore 257.

So of the 5 games you mentioned that we Utterly dominated to improve our stats, only 2 of them were in our 5 best defensive days.

Other games, from high to low: GB 319, Denver 302, KC 295, Chicago 279, Oakland 275.

The fact of the matter is the bengals had great games against some good offenses, and some bad games against some bad offenses. And the reason the defenses for Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati finished so high is because they are very good defenses.

[volcom69]

That first series for the defense was awsome, great pressure, and awsome push against the run. After that though you didnt see much pressure at all on the QB. One thing i noticed the Bengals can not cover the middle of the field, they got burnt quite a few times this season. Another note the 1st string defense has had only 2 sacks from what i read, they have had pressure which is just as good, but i would love to see some sacks.

[derekshank]

In some of those "utter domination" of weak teams, we gave up some legitimate yards. Ignoring the Jets game in which we simply laid down. In the weak teams you mentioned, we allowed an average of 277 yards. The highest in that group being 395 to cleveland, and the lowest being 169 to cleveland. If you take out the 169 game to cleveland its 303.

The term "utter domination" wasn't in reference to just the defense, but the team as a whole. For instance, in that Cleveland game, the Bengals nearly had two 100 yard rushers. The ran the ball over and over, punishing the Browns hapless defense, and ran the clock down for nearly 40 minutes. Any good defense should be able to neutralize the Browns offense regardless. The Bengals only had to do it for 20 minutes.

The Lions game featured more of a passing attack in the 1st half because of the Lions secondary. In the 2nd half, the Bengals had a 10 point lead and ran Benson so many times it bordered on criminal. They had a 7 minute drive to begin the 3rd quarter, and another drive of almost 10 minutes (9:58 to be exact) later on. Again, the Bengals defense was only on the field for 20 minutes against a bad offense.

How could anyone argue that the running game didn't help the defense statistically?

in the other games, we allowed an average of 311. so it is 34 yards difference. If you take out the houston game, its down to 293 so 16 yards apart. The houston game was the only game that the bengals allowed over 400 yards, at 472.

Wouldn't it be fun if we could take away games? I say we take away 6 games and claim the Bengals enjoyed an undefeated regular season in '09.

The problem with taking away the Houston game is that they quietly had the #4 offense in the NFL last year and the #4 defense couldn't slow them down.

As for the yards stat... again, at least some of it was a product of the Bengals offense. They ran the clock down and shortened games. For instance, the Colts had a terrible rushing attack. Their defense played 1,083 plays from scrimmage compared to the Bengals 980 plays. Coincidence?

So since we're taking away games... let's add some stuff. The 103 extra plays the Colts had at 4.9 yards/play (the Bengals average over the season). Cincy would have given up an extra 510 yards dropping them from 4th to 17th in the NFL.

Do I think they are better than 17th? Absolutely. In my opinion, they are easily top 10. My point is that they will likely drop out of the top 5 this season because of the change in the Bengals offense.

The 5 worst games, Houston 472, Cleveland 395, Pittsburgh 373, San Diego 366, and Minnesota 322

With the exception of the Cleveland game all those teams had top 10 passing games. This year the Bengals play the Saints, Colts, Pats, and Chargers, not to mention passing games like Baltimore and Miami that are sure to improve. Is it really so hard to believe that the defense's stats might take a hit this season?

The fact of the matter is the bengals had great games against some good offenses, and some bad games against some bad offenses. And the reason the defenses for Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati finished so high is because they are very good defenses.

Well, I wasn't arguing that the Bengals weren't a good defense. I went out of my way to say that. I just don't think they'll end up in the top 5 this year. And your point about the Bengals defense having bad games against bad offenses strengthens my argument.

Unfortunately, the poor showing they had against Buffalo was far more common than many of us care to remember. However, just like last year, Zimmer will get them together and they will play very well. In fact, I would say this defense is better than the '09 version. I just don't believe the end of the year stats will be evidence of it... because of factors that are out of Zimmer's control.

[volcom69]

If they figure out the pass rush, and figure out how to cover the middle of the field they will be fine. With the QB they play this year it is very important that they find away to get this done, and with the front 4.

[ArmyBengal]

I watched a good portion of the game again tonight on the replay and noticed one person specifically on defense and not in a good way.

Pat Sims

Every play he seemed to not really be doing much of anything. He looked overweight, slow, little push, and no type of rush moves outside of "forward". While I will concede he may have done more in the other preseason games he has played in, I can't for the life of me remember hearing his name at all and certainly not mentioned in any way, shape, or form here on the board.

I'm just left to wonder how much impact he's viewed as making when you hear others names quite frequently.

Atkins, Dunlap, Johnson, just no Sims. Maybe i've missed it...

[Kazkal]

Ya Sims only Play I can really recall is he did fluster the QB but Geno finished the played...Honest though Really haven't payed attention to him and have just seen him as Space Eater...Which he seems to have the body and I haven't noticed him getting pushed around linemen just a lack of any real plays.,,

Would be interesting to see if they Did view Sims on the Bubble being they Play Odom,Fanene,Geathers and even dunlap at DT on Passing downs though i'd prefer to keep him since he is our space eater.

[wpeldios]

In some of those "utter domination" of weak teams, we gave up some legitimate yards. Ignoring the Jets game in which we simply laid down. In the weak teams you mentioned, we allowed an average of 277 yards. The highest in that group being 395 to cleveland, and the lowest being 169 to cleveland. If you take out the 169 game to cleveland its 303.

The term "utter domination" wasn't in reference to just the defense, but the team as a whole. For instance, in that Cleveland game, the Bengals nearly had two 100 yard rushers. The ran the ball over and over, punishing the Browns hapless defense, and ran the clock down for nearly 40 minutes. Any good defense should be able to neutralize the Browns offense regardless. The Bengals only had to do it for 20 minutes.

The Lions game featured more of a passing attack in the 1st half because of the Lions secondary. In the 2nd half, the Bengals had a 10 point lead and ran Benson so many times it bordered on criminal. They had a 7 minute drive to begin the 3rd quarter, and another drive of almost 10 minutes (9:58 to be exact) later on. Again, the Bengals defense was only on the field for 20 minutes against a bad offense.

How could anyone argue that the running game didn't help the defense statistically?

in the other games, we allowed an average of 311. so it is 34 yards difference. If you take out the houston game, its down to 293 so 16 yards apart. The houston game was the only game that the bengals allowed over 400 yards, at 472.

Wouldn't it be fun if we could take away games? I say we take away 6 games and claim the Bengals enjoyed an undefeated regular season in '09.

The problem with taking away the Houston game is that they quietly had the #4 offense in the NFL last year and the #4 defense couldn't slow them down.

As for the yards stat... again, at least some of it was a product of the Bengals offense. They ran the clock down and shortened games. For instance, the Colts had a terrible rushing attack. Their defense played 1,083 plays from scrimmage compared to the Bengals 980 plays. Coincidence?

So since we're taking away games... let's add some stuff. The 103 extra plays the Colts had at 4.9 yards/play (the Bengals average over the season). Cincy would have given up an extra 510 yards dropping them from 4th to 17th in the NFL.

Do I think they are better than 17th? Absolutely. In my opinion, they are easily top 10. My point is that they will likely drop out of the top 5 this season because of the change in the Bengals offense.

The 5 worst games, Houston 472, Cleveland 395, Pittsburgh 373, San Diego 366, and Minnesota 322

With the exception of the Cleveland game all those teams had top 10 passing games. This year the Bengals play the Saints, Colts, Pats, and Chargers, not to mention passing games like Baltimore and Miami that are sure to improve. Is it really so hard to believe that the defense's stats might take a hit this season?

The fact of the matter is the bengals had great games against some good offenses, and some bad games against some bad offenses. And the reason the defenses for Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati finished so high is because they are very good defenses.

Well, I wasn't arguing that the Bengals weren't a good defense. I went out of my way to say that. I just don't think they'll end up in the top 5 this year. And your point about the Bengals defense having bad games against bad offenses strengthens my argument.

Unfortunately, the poor showing they had against Buffalo was far more common than many of us care to remember. However, just like last year, Zimmer will get them together and they will play very well. In fact, I would say this defense is better than the '09 version. I just don't believe the end of the year stats will be evidence of it... because of factors that are out of Zimmer's control.

Of course the running game helped the defense, but what is going to change this year? The running game will still be there.

As for the wouldnt it be fun to take away games, isnt that exactly what you were doing when you were saying that our games against the weakest teams on our schedule are the reason we finished top 5. Are you really surprised the Bengals performed well against some of these bad teams.

Ok lets put it this way, last year the bengals allowed the following teams to get more than their regular average yardage. Pittsburgh, Houston, Oakland, Cleveland

And the allowing teams got less yards. Denver, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore x2, Chicago, Minnesota, San Diego, Kansas City, Detroit, Cleveland

So with all these struggles you are talking about only 4 teams had a better than average game by their standards against the bengals.

Last year the bengals had 6 games against teams that ended in the top 10 in offense. This year we have lets count them, 6 games against teams that finished in the top 10 in offense. Last year we had 5 games against teams who were in the top 10 in passing. This year we play 6. So are you trying to tell me that despite the fact we play against the same amount of top 10 offenses, and only 1 more team in the top 10 in passing, the bengals #s are going to drop by a significant margin, and despite the fact you think our defense will be better it will be enough to drop us about 5 spots in the ranking? We also had 7 games against teams that finished outside of the top 20 last year, and this year we have 7.

You may not have said they were not good, but you are making an effort to minimize just how good they were. The poor showing against Buffalo was due to the fact that the bengals ran the same coverage scheme on every single play all game. This wasnt a coach who couldnt figure out how to stop the other team. This was a coach confident enough that he didnt want to push anything in a preseason game. And as I said before, those "poor showings" that were such a regular thing resulted in 4, i repeat, 4 teams getting more than their average yardage against us.

Also last year we had 8 games against teams that finished top 7 in defense in the nfl last year. This year we have 5. And 7 games against teams in the top 8 in rushing this year its 5. Considering the bengals were in both those stats it is even more impressive that we did what we did on offense with our running game. Is it that hard to believe that the running game could actually improve this year?

I am going to say it now, I believe the Bengals will finish in the top 5 defense again this year. I am also saying the Bengals get more than the 34 sacks they had last year.

I am putting that quote as my sig and will leave it all season. Feel free to call me out if I am wrong.

[derekshank]

Of course the running game helped the defense, but what is going to change this year? The running game will still be there.

Well, Brat himself said he was going to revamp the passing game. Palmer said this is the biggest offensive change he's witnessed in his 8 years in the NFL. They drafted a pass catching TE in the 1st round, drafted a slot receiver in the 3rd, signed T.O. and the guy who was the #2 WR (and the guy Marvin pointed to as most improved) is getting so few reps, people are starting to think he might get cut.

If you believe the Bengals are still going to be as focused on running as in '09, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

As for the wouldnt it be fun to take away games, isnt that exactly what you were doing when you were saying that our games against the weakest teams on our schedule are the reason we finished top 5. Are you really surprised the Bengals performed well against some of these bad teams.

No. I'm not surprised they played well against bad teams. I'm also not taking anything away... I'm merely pointing out that it's a much tougher road this year. The Bengals have far fewer weak offenses on the schedule this year.

Let's compare to another team. In '09, Carolina's defense finished 8th overall. They played 5 games against the top 5 offenses. The Bengals only played 2 games against top 5 offenses. The Panthers played three games against bottom 10 offenses... the Bengals played six games against the bottom 10 offenses. The difference in yards allowed from 4th place to 8th place is only 14 more yards/game.

I bring this up because the Bengals play 6 games against top 10 offenses this season, and only 4 games against bottom 10 offenses. Is it unfathomable to imagine that they might allow 14 more yards/game?

So with all these struggles you are talking about only 4 teams had a better than average game by their standards against the bengals.

I would have assumed fewer than 4 teams had better than their average. Very few teams that have top 5 defenses would allow an offense to have better than average games against them. If you want to be elite (top 5 is elite), you should nearly always be holding opposing offenses below their average.

I am going to say it now, I believe the Bengals will finish in the top 5 defense again this year.

I am putting that quote as my sig and will leave it all season. Feel free to call me out if I am wrong.

Well... honestly, I don't really care - and I certainly won't care enough to call you out. The point of me initial post was actually to calm people down about the poor play against Buffalo... because it wasn't all that uncommon last year. Also, I wanted to temper expectations because I do expect them to drop out of the top 5 in the yards/game stat - but that doesn't matter to me, because I don't care about stats. I want playoff wins.

The Bengals should be a much better overall team this season and the defense should be a lot better. But I simply don't care about a top 5 finish. They could finish dead last in every meaningful category except the score and I'll be happy.

I'm not all that interested in the rankings. I believe the Bengals have a top 5 defense... I just doubt the end of the year stats will be evidence of that fact. The change in offensive philosophy and a schedule of really good QB/WR combos mixed with much fewer weak teams will hurt their stats. You can disagree with me if you want - but I think you have unrealistic expectations.

[volcom69]

I watched a good portion of the game again tonight on the replay and noticed one person specifically on defense and not in a good way.

Pat Sims

Every play he seemed to not really be doing much of anything. He looked overweight, slow, little push, and no type of rush moves outside of "forward". While I will concede he may have done more in the other preseason games he has played in, I can't for the life of me remember hearing his name at all and certainly not mentioned in any way, shape, or form here on the board.

I'm just left to wonder how much impact he's viewed as making when you hear others names quite frequently.

Atkins, Dunlap, Johnson, just no Sims. Maybe i've missed it...

Worst part is they will keep Sims over Rucker which in my eyes sucks. I know alot of people dont like Rucker, but everytime he is on the field he makes plays. He is always around the ball getting fumbles, int the ball getting pressure on the QB. Reedy has him being cut which really sucks.

[COB]

Andre Smith was much improved. He blatantly gave up one sack, and on a couple plays couldn't find anyone to block. But he blocked well on a lot of plays. He moves defenders downfield. When he extends his hands and, for lack of a better term, "chucks" defenders with both hands, that action actually moves people.

He went into the game with 8 minutes left in the second, then played the rest of the game.

If someone could invent a sort of football uniform onesie, like the thing you put on an 8-month-old, that would be helpful. There doesn't seem to be a belt that is ready to challenge Andre, he has to pull his football pants up after about every play.

[HairOnFire]

Ya Sims only Play I can really recall is he did fluster the QB but Geno finished the played...

I think that's the same play where Sims, who was badly overrunning the play, blatantly grabbed the QB's facemask....then pulled the helmet off as if he were opening a bottle of soda? Or perhaps gravy? As I recall the 15-yard penalty for personal foul negated a very nice cleanup sack by Atkins.

[HairOnFire]

How about a 3rd opinion?

Of course the running game helped the defense, but what is going to change this year? The running game will still be there.

Well, Brat himself said he was going to revamp the passing game. Palmer said this is the biggest offensive change he's witnessed in his 8 years in the NFL.

I have no doubt the changes are the most Palmer has ever seen, but I don't see any reason for this teams focus on the running game to change. If anything it should pay more dividends due to the further emergence of Bernard Scott, both as a runner and as a pass catcher. But also because Cedric Benson gives the Bengals one of the very best feature backs in the entire NFL....and James Johnson gives them respectable depth. Granted, the FB position is unsettled, but the Bengals fondness for heavy formations often replaces the FB with bigger more athletic TE's...giving them even more power running options.

They drafted a pass catching TE in the 1st round, drafted a slot receiver in the 3rd, signed T.O. and the guy who was the #2 WR (and the guy Marvin pointed to as most improved) is getting so few reps, people are starting to think he might get cut..

So in other words....new guy, new guy, old new guy. Combined, they result in the demotion of a player with several years of game experience playing within this offense. So I ask how likely is it that the Bengals passing game, though much improved, will be good enough soon enough to be the unit this teams offensive gameplans are built around? Isn't it more likely that this team will continue to embrace the grinding running game as much, or nearly as much, as it did last season? That passing game success will largely be measured by improvement in the randowm and sporadic deep passing game, but mostly by the ability to extend drives on 3rd down. All of which should be improved by the newcomers, but none of which dictates the focus will no longer be on the grind. Rather, from the grind everything else flows.

If you believe the Bengals are still going to be as focused on running as in '09, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

It might help to think of the running game as the bridge itself. The way of getting from where you are to where you want to be. The solid thing upon which everything else rests, and the thing most responsible for preventing you from falling into the abyss below. The one thing you can't abandon...

Okay, enough of that. Suffice to say I don't expect the focus on the run to change very much....that the focus on the passing game is likely to change only in the rare cases where even if you take your opponents running game away he still has too much offensive firepower left. Or those examples, against good teams or bad, where the other guys gameplan is just better than yours that day....and once that original gameplan is abandoned you need a way to get back in the game quickly.

[wpeldios]

I bring this up because the Bengals play 6 games against top 10 offenses this season, and only 4 games against bottom 10 offenses. Is it unfathomable to imagine that they might allow 14 more yards/game?

Again, you are right, the Bengals play 6 teams against top 10 offenses, as opposed to last year when we played 6 teams against top 10 offenses.

And last year we played 7 games against teams that finished outside the top 20, compared to this year, when we play 7 games against teams outside the top 20.

Is it unfathomable to imagine that a defense that you said is improved will be able to maintain what they did last year or put up better numbers?

As for tempering enthusiasm, come on its the preseason, its the time for enthusiasm.

And Who effing Dey!

[JoeMama]

Last year's rankings mean very little.

Every year there's like a 50% turnover rate in the playoffs and "strength of schedule" is never what it seems.

You guys are unquestionably better than the Browns and Steelers (no Rapelisberger), and only the Ravens can compete but they've lost most of their secondary.

If I was a Bengals fan (and I don't mean to jinx it) you guys should run away with the North.

Knock on wood.

[MrSwaggins]

Last year's rankings mean very little.

Every year there's like a 50% turnover rate in the playoffs and "strength of schedule" is never what it seems.

You guys are unquestionably better than the Browns and Steelers (no Rapelisberger), and only the Ravens can compete but they've lost most of their secondary.

If I was a Bengals fan (and I don't mean to jinx it) you guys should run away with the North.

Knock on wood.

Crap. Now I have to knock on wood. Oh s**t there goes Eric Wood. I regret to inform you that after knocking on Eric Wood he will once again require season ending surgery. Sowwy