No more excuses Palmer!

[combatbengal]

Before I start this threat, let me point out that I am not bashing Palmer. I’ve always liked and supported him. Coming out of college he was a stud and to this day he’s held in the same class as Payton and Brady. But he hasn’t performed to their level since he was injured by the Steelers. We’ve dealt with the leg and elbow injuries. We’ve heard that he didn’t have the weapons needed; lost TJ, Henry, etc. Week after week we listen to his post game interviews; he’s aware of the problems that the offense has and that they have to work harder. It’s the same answer week after week with zero improvement.

Last season he threw for 3,094 yards with a 60.5% completion rate. 21 TD’s and 13 INT’s, and had a QB rating of 83.6. I won’t mention 2008 but in 2007 he threw for 4,131 yards with a 64.9% completion rate. 26 TD’s and 20 INT’s, with a QB rating of 86.7. Those numbers should sky rocket this season.

Well, no more excuses Palmer. You should come into this season healthy. We drafted great weapons for you to improve the offense. We got rid of the dead weight (Coles). With this year’s draft of Gresham and Shipley, and a healthier line, there should be no more excuses for three and outs or not getting the ball in the end zone! Our punter should earn the nickname as the burglar; earning a paycheck without getting on the field. Granted this year’s schedule is a lot tougher but with the improvements on offense, our defense shouldn’t have to carry us through the season! I’m looking forward to great season and huge run throughout the playoffs. Who Dey.

[ct_bengal]

Before I start this threat, let me point out that I am not bashing Palmer. I’ve always liked and supported him. Coming out of college he was a stud and to this day he’s held in the same class as Payton and Brady. But he hasn’t performed to their level since he was injured by the Steelers. We’ve dealt with the leg and elbow injuries. We’ve heard that he didn’t have the weapons needed; lost TJ, Henry, etc. Week after week we listen to his post game interviews; he’s aware of the problems that the offense has and that they have to work harder. It’s the same answer week after week with zero improvement.

Last season he threw for 3,094 yards with a 60.5% completion rate. 21 TD’s and 13 INT’s, and had a QB rating of 83.6. I won’t mention 2008 but in 2007 he threw for 4,131 yards with a 64.9% completion rate. 26 TD’s and 20 INT’s, with a QB rating of 86.7. Those numbers should sky rocket this season.

Well, no more excuses Palmer. You should come into this season healthy. We drafted great weapons for you to improve the offense. We got rid of the dead weight (Coles). With this year’s draft of Gresham and Shipley, and a healthier line, there should be no more excuses for three and outs or not getting the ball in the end zone! Our punter should earn the nickname as the burglar; earning a paycheck without getting on the field. Granted this year’s schedule is a lot tougher but with the improvements on offense, our defense shouldn’t have to carry us through the season! I’m looking forward to great season and huge run throughout the playoffs. Who Dey.

palmer is the man i have rewatched the first 5 games of the season this weekend (yea i have no life) and there is nothing wrong with him. Palmer doesnt need excuses, he needs receivers. Re-watching the games its clear as day that this team is going to be much better offensively than last year, MUCH better. I wasn't a big fan of drafting greshman but i now believe he is going to take this offense to the next level. I also think they need jeremi johnson back, he might be fat as hell but the guy was throwing key blocks in nearly each game. Safety was a glaring hole even with roy williams, but perhaps a pass rush will improve. i watched so much bengal football im so pumped for the upcoming season. and yet its almos 3 months away....

[Wraith]

Ok so how do you explain 2006? 2006 he threw for 4,035 yards with 28 TDs and only 13 INTs and a QB rating of 93.9. May I remind you that Palmer was injured in the playoff game for the 2005 season. A guy cannot have a career year every year and 2006 and 2007 he played well enough for the Bengals to get far into the playoffs provided the rest of the team showed up. In 2006 and 2007 we had a running game that did not scare anyone(26th in the league in 2006 with a 3.7 YPC average, 24th in the league in 2007 with a 3.7 YPC average) and a putrid defense (30th in the league in 2006 and 27th in the league in 2007).

I love how people say "Palmer hasn't been the same since his knee injury vs. the Steelers" but conveniently forget that 2006 he put up the second best QB year in Bengals history (second only to his 2005) and his statistical difference v. 2005 was small enough that the first place schedule (v.s third place schedule in 2005) could probably account for it. Palmer was off last year and it had to do with a serious lack of weapons. Your right this year is a defining year for him but I for one have no doubts about the outcome. The 2010 Bengals have the best Bengals team in the history of the franchise top to bottom and the rest of the league should watch out.

[ArmyBengal]

I forget where I saw it, but there was a headline about what teams might not make it back to the playoffs in 2010 and there was a picture of Palmer handing the ball of to Benson. I was like well, maybe, maybe not, but then I looked closer at the picture and noticed they just happened to get a picture of Palmer handing the ball off all f*cked up due to his injury from last year.

While I don't know how much that may or may not have bothered him in other aspects of his game last year, I think it should at least warrant consideration. I've complained as well about his over or under throwing last year, but still had more concerns with the o-line and lack of play from the WR position then from Palmer himself.

Maybe he is declining maybe not, but I'm simply not at the thought process "at this point in time" to go overboard with it being time to replace Carson.

I'm much more concerned about who we have backing him up, should they need to come in, and be expected to win multiple games.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Ok so how do you explain 2006? 2006 he threw for 4,035 yards with 28 TDs and only 13 INTs and a QB rating of 93.9. May I remind you that Palmer was injured in the playoff game for the 2005 season. A guy cannot have a career year every year and 2006 and 2007 he played well enough for the Bengals to get far into the playoffs provided the rest of the team showed up. In 2006 and 2007 we had a running game that did not scare anyone(26th in the league in 2006 with a 3.7 YPC average, 24th in the league in 2007 with a 3.7 YPC average) and a putrid defense (30th in the league in 2006 and 27th in the league in 2007).

I love how people say "Palmer hasn't been the same since his knee injury vs. the Steelers" but conveniently forget that 2006 he put up the second best QB year in Bengals history (second only to his 2005) and his statistical difference v. 2005 was small enough that the first place schedule (v.s third place schedule in 2005) could probably account for it. Palmer was off last year and it had to do with a serious lack of weapons. Your right this year is a defining year for him but I for one have no doubts about the outcome. The 2010 Bengals have the best Bengals team in the history of the franchise top to bottom and the rest of the league should watch out.

Palmer has been battling many different injuries, that have taken time away from his regular training enough so that his mechanics seem a little off. That first game against Denver he threw high to open WR's almost every pass play.

His injury in 2005, was just the first in a line of injuries that have left Palmer a shell of what he can be. I think he will show just what he has left, this year. I'm hoping it is similar to his best years as a pro and he takes the team to a second AFCN Championship.

[derekshank]

I for one don't want to see Palmer put up '05 type numbers.

I want him to be efficient and effective enough to keep defenses honest. I want to see the Bengals continue to be a running team, pounding their opponents into submission, and leading the league in TOP.

Palmer has the ability to throw the ball 40+ times a game and given the right tools he would be in the MVP talks regularly. But I'd rather the team use him just enough to make a defense pay dearly for loading 8 in the box. That's it. Boring, slow paced, low scoring football. It's my favorite.

[Passepartout]

Palmer just needs to have a good RB for him. As well as just find the right kind of rhythem. Because the Bengals can be a team if they have the right kind of rhythem.

Always liked Palmer, just needs to find the right kind of rhythem for him. And support as the QB can't do it all by himself.

[Kazkal]

I'm just saying but Carsons numbers last year weren't far off from 2 of Tom Bradys superbowl years & Both of big Bens who are considered all time greats because of their superbowl accomplishments.

Brady

2001 2800 yrds 18 td 12 int

2003 3600 23 td 12 int

Big Ben

2005 2400 17td 9 int

2008 3300 17 td 15 int

So um ya Overall for what Carson had for Offensive Weapons + being nicked up he played fine,Hell he led how many 4th quarter go ahead touchdowns in the last 3 minutes? People need look past the stats...

I'm with Derek about Prefering not to see 2005 Carson but more of the Carson who was Money on game winning drives (or close like the broncos game >_<)

[HoosierCat]

Palmer has been battling many different injuries, that have taken time away from his regular training enough so that his mechanics seem a little off. That first game against Denver he threw high to open WR's almost every pass play.

His injury in 2005, was just the first in a line of injuries that have left Palmer a shell of what he can be.

I don't think I would go quite that far, but there's no doubt in my mind that the string of injuries he's suffered dating back to the '05 playoff game have thrown a series of monkey wrenches into Palmer's career.

That said, I think the collapse of the offensive line, starting in early 2006 with the loss of Buckethead, was the No. 1 reason the offense fell off a cliff the last few years. Then, by the time they finally got some semblance of a real o-line back last season, the skill positions cratered: TJ left, Henry got killed, and both Kelly and Utecht were lost before the season even started.

Still, despite all this, it's hard for me to stick it to Carson. Through his first six seasons (not counting his "redshirt" year in '03), Palmer has appeared in 81 games, more than either Kenny Anderson (71) or Boomer Esiasion (77). His career completion percentage is 63.2%; through their first six years, Anderson and Esiasion were 57.4% and 55.9%. Through six seasons, he's thrown more TDs (128) than Anderson (88) or Boomer (126). The only place he doesn't top the team's two best QBs is picks, where he has thrown 80 in his first six seasons, versus 76 for Boomer and 58 for Kenny during their first six years.

In short, even with all his injuries and all the team's breakdowns (also mostly injury-driven) on offense, Palmer is still arguably the best QB in Bengals' history at this point in his career.

[gregstephens]

Annnnnnd...cabin fever has definitely set in for the crew at the BZ forum!

(Sitting, waiting patiently for the rehash of other threads, such as 'Sign T.O' and 'Fire Brat')

[TJJackson]

Henry got killed himself killed

fixed it for ya

(Sitting, waiting patiently for the rehash of other threads, such as 'Sign T.O' and 'Fire Brat')

I am just about to initiate the 'Pay Instigator what he's worth' thread

[walzav29]

2006 - Returned to Pro Bowl form

2007 - Rudi was wiped out, and the defense was non-existent. Highlighted by Ndukwe playing LB vs New England. Palmer had to force a ton of passes because there wasn't a decent RB. I think Watsonb had over 100 vs the Jets that year.

2008 - O line was pathetic and almost got Palmer killed. Remember the broken nose in preseason?

2009 - His stats weren't off the charts, but he bailed them out of a ton of games. Losing TJ was big. No TE's hurt him.

2010 - The O-line, Running game, D are all set. They brought him more guys. He will put up great numbers.

[gregstephens]

(Sitting, waiting patiently for the rehash of other threads, such as 'Sign T.O' and 'Fire Brat')

I am just about to initiate the 'Pay Instigator what he's worth' thread

I suspect I'm already a bit overpaid as it is.

Oh...sorry...and...poop.

[kneepit]

Palmer has been battling many different injuries, that have taken time away from his regular training enough so that his mechanics seem a little off. That first game against Denver he threw high to open WR's almost every pass play.

Still, despite all this, it's hard for me to stick it to Carson. Through his first six seasons (not counting his "redshirt" year in '03), Palmer has appeared in 81 games, more than either Kenny Anderson (71) or Boomer Esiasion (77). His career completion percentage is 63.2%; through their first six years, Anderson and Esiasion were 57.4% and 55.9%. Through six seasons, he's thrown more TDs (128) than Anderson (88) or Boomer (126). The only place he doesn't top the team's two best QBs is picks, where he has thrown 80 in his first six seasons, versus 76 for Boomer and 58 for Kenny during their first six years.

In short, even with all his injuries and all the team's breakdowns (also mostly injury-driven) on offense, Palmer is still arguably the best QB in Bengals' history at this point in his career.

I'm not saying Palmer isn't better than those guys but he does play in a passing era. A quarterback nowadays should hit at least 60% of his passes. Back then, corners and safeties had more freedom.

[BengalPimp]

I forget where I saw it, but there was a headline about what teams might not make it back to the playoffs in 2010 and there was a picture of Palmer handing the ball of to Benson. I was like well, maybe, maybe not, but then I looked closer at the picture and noticed they just happened to get a picture of Palmer handing the ball off all f*cked up due to his injury from last year.

And I've mentioned this in other posts...The Play Action will be back this year...BIG TIME....One part of that is an effective running game, another is the ability for WR's to get open downfield, but the KEY is SELLING it(RB taking it hard,Wr's prentending to run block, then breaking off into routes,O-Line pushing forward first, then dropping back, But also the QB's ability to hide the football)...It's damn tough to do that when your right-handed QB is handing off with his right hand, and the ball is completely exposed to the defense. His left hand is fine now, and handing off with it will hide the football better, selling it, and also will allow him to roll out. Try and imagine for a second faking a handoff with your right, then rolling out???? Footwork is all jacked up.

On a side note:

Give Benson a ton on credit for last season. When Palmer took the snap on a running play, his right hand was stuck out immediately so everyone knew it was a hand-off, also, Instead of the ball hitting Ced in the gut (as it would w/left handed handoff) it was Carson's right hand hitting him square in the gut everytime.

[Wraith]

Carson

2004 60.9%

2005 67.8%

2006 62.3%

2007 64.9%

2008 Played in only 4 games two of which were in a hurricane

2009 60.5%

Carson is completing over 60% for every year except for 2008

[Trevor]

I'm excited for carson,.. He has weapons out the Azz this year. Two great pass catching TE's and 5 or 6 WR's that can catch and make plays. He will probably make the probowl IMO

[kingwilly]

He will probably better make the playoffs and the probowl IMO

Just tweaked that a bit. Now I agree with you.

[combatbengal]

I do think the main reason for the offense failing was the play calling. When those of us can sit in our living rooms or in the stands and call the play before it's ran, there is a problem. When it's 3rd and long and we run the ball up the middle, there is a problem. When what we've tried didn't work in the 1st half and we make no adjustments, there's a problem.

I do think that this will be a great year for us. On paper we look great. but keep in mind, we got beat by the Jets twice last year and they made drastic improvements! We play them on Thanksgiving!

The rest of the schedule isn't going to be a picnic either.

[Trevor]

I do think the main reason for the offense failing was the play calling. When those of us can sit in our living rooms or in the stands and call the play before it's ran, there is a problem. When it's 3rd and long and we run the ball up the middle, there is a problem. When what we've tried didn't work in the 1st half and we make no adjustments, there's a problem.

I do think that this will be a great year for us. On paper we look great. but keep in mind, we got beat by the Jets twice last year and they made drastic improvements! We play them on Thanksgiving!

The rest of the schedule isn't going to be a picnic either.

i think there were some headscratching plays out there... But alot of plays werent executed correctly... When they were (chicago) we kicked ass...

[ArmyBengal]

I think the jury is still out on some of the moves the Jets made (running back and o-line), but yeah they made moves.

I also think the Bengals are simply going to be better regardless of the schedule. They have been saying this is not the same "soft" Bengals teams of the past and this schedule (if nothing else) will provide them every opportunity to go out and prove just that. If they can repeat as AFCN champs or at least get a wild card birth, it will go a long way in regards to the team finally getting some respect.

Anything short of that and there will be no love and quite frankly, why would there be ??

[Trevor]

Also, on bengals.com they have carson talking about his news guys to throw to,.. He likes AB and matt jones alot.

[ArmyBengal]

And before they actually get the chance to put on the pads and work on chemistry together, all of that means about as much as them enjoying fruit smoothies after long workouts and sharing the same favorite color. Not to be a dick, just how I see it...

[Trevor]

I fell ya man,.. There are a few fans that still feel matt can be awesome, but we'll find out if he's forreal in these next few weeks...

[combatbengal]

I hear that Shipley is a stud and he did do a number on the Buckeyes a few years back in the championship.