If Dez falls should the Bengals take him?

[TJJackson]

Thanks Mr Mexico.

Your room is ready, btw, here's the keys, please just sign here......

I have paid far less attention to the draft this year than in previous simply because I've been busy with other things, but I keep hearing that Mays cant tackle. Realizing I have not done the research to confirm this, but reasonably content with the folks declaring this, I'll pass on Mays at 21.

[derekshank]

I have paid far less attention to the draft this year than in previous simply because I've been busy with other things, but I keep hearing that Mays cant tackle. Realizing I have not done the research to confirm this, but reasonably content with the folks declaring this, I'll pass on Mays at 21.

Fair enough... but the idea that Mays can't tackle is not really accurate. He often led USC in tackles playing centerfield, so he can tackle.

Probably what you heard is that he is not really always technically sound. He often prefers to give the big hit rather than wrap up. Not really all that different than what we heard about Maualuga. But I understand your distaste for safety. I happen to believe he'll be among the BPA at #21, so I'm ok with the pick. But I'm not jumping up and down excited either.

Of course, I can't think of many things that would get me that excited this year. Maybe Derrick Morgan miraculously falling to #21?

[HairOnFire]

I'm loving this guys. The offseason is so slow when you guys aren't in the middle of a spat.

This one is just beginning... and I find myself wishing we had a couple more weeks before the draft was here.

So... Thanks!

You're welcome, I guess.

But here's the thing. This one isn't just beginning. Hoosier and I have fallen into this "spat" more times than I'd care to count, including the last three years in a row. The positions we take are familiar, entrenched, and never change. And there's the rub, because the Bastard Sons annual demand for three more of the exact same things isn't getting this team anywhere.

The Bengals are a playoff team now because of a shift in identity to a power running team who plays solid defense. Those changes are precisely the things I've pleaded for over decades, and now that they're paying dividends I see no rationale for abandoning the building process before a finished product is produced. There's more work to be done.

No matter how many times Hoosier attempts to portray my stance as a defensive version of his greedy WR rant it simply isn't true. Because I'm not asking for expensive assets to be burned on the very same positions where expensive assets have been repeatedly burned year after year. Rather, I'm pleading for starting safeties who aren't late round draft picks or aging veterans who break down after fours games. And I'm pleading for interior offensive lineman who would actually be team strengths rather than mediocre players who are acceptable only because of their cheap cost.

Hoosier often responds by pointing out how the Bengals defense is already good, and when compared to the passing game deserves no further attention. This team simply has to average more points scored, say the bleating masses. But ask yourself this question. If the Bengals do draft a buttload of new pass catchers, again, what are their chances of outscoring a team like the Saints this year? Not good, right? So why not continue doing the things that are working? Why not add the last pieces needed to transform a good defense into an elite unit that can hold the Saints to fewer points? And why not improve the Bengals run game from a good unit into an elite attack that keeps the ball out of the hands of Drew Brees?

Embrace the grind.

Or for those of you who prefer the long version, become elite at the things that have made you a winner rather than endlessly attempting to upgrade the things that make other teams a winner.

NADS

[Ickey44]

Or for those of you who prefer the long version, become elite at the things that have made you a winner rather than endlessly attempting to upgrade the things that make other teams a winner.

I agree in that we should keep the same model we have. However, the passing game does need to improve. There are times when we will have to pass and if no one respects our passing game they're going to stuff the box to defend the run. We can't just be one dimensional.

They could probably use a WR and a TE in the draft at some point, but neither in the first round. I think the need at safety outweigh the needs at WR and TE. The defense fell apart down the stretch because of (lack of) safety depth. The pass rush suffered greatly after Odom went down.

Michael Johnson might be part of the answer at DE so I really think they should go safety in the first. Earl Thomas or Taylor Mays would be a good pick, IMO.

TE should be addressed in the 2nd. With the addition of Bryant, I think WR is set. Maybe use a late round pick on a WR. They should use this year to try to develop the WRs they have. Caldwell showed glimpses last year and they need to get Simpson on the field. I also think Matt Jones will be a lot better than most people think he will.

I think they should try to find an interior lineman. Williams is about to retire and Mathis and Livings are just average players.

After that, BPA for the rest of the draft.

That's my two cents anyway....

[HairOnFire]

I agree in that we should keep the same model we have. However, the passing game does need to improve.

Yeah, it does. And I'm not opposed to adding a skill position player who can help. For just a couple of examples, I've said Dez Bryant needs to be the pick if he falls and I'm willing to accept Gresham with a shrug. But when you're lying in the tall grass targeting your intended prey how about using a rifle instead of a shotgun?

Maybe I'm nuts but the very reason I want to add talent to this teams defense is because they're so close. Close to being the elite defense we all wanted and thought we were getting the day Marvin Lewis was hired.

It's right there.

Go for it.

[HoosierCat]

Let's look at the last three years. Five new pass catchers added in the draft or free agency just two years ago. Then the most important and costly addition in free agency one year later.

Yes, please, let's look at the last three years, where we've had five new safeties added in the draft or free agency. Yet that hasn't stopped you from placing Taylor Mays atop your wish list. And lest you point again to age as a factor, note our presumed starting wideouts are 32 and 29, versus 30 and 29 for our presumed starting safeties.

In addition, a 3rd round draft pick is burned on a TE, the very same position you advocate using a 1st round pick on only one year later.

Yup, and you might also recall that we lost both our starting TEs before last season even started. In case you hadn't noticed, we are kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel at the position.

Predicatbly the Bengals also use another late round pick on yet another WR, presumably because they can't think of anything else to do.

I would presume they were hoping to get lucky again, like they did once with TJ.

And that brings us neatly to this year where the WR position is once again tabbed as the most important and costly addition in free agency. Furthermore, the Bengals add two more WR's, one of them a past 1st round pick, in minor deals.

And what does all that activity suggest about how the Bengals see the talent level of their "pass-catchers"? Not exactly a vote of confidence in Simpson, Caldwell, et.al.

And on top of all of the above you want three more EARLY draft picks allocated to the very same positions....presumably to replace the picks you begged for two years ago.

And if those picks had panned out, I would be right with you arguing for more defense. But they haven't, and that's the point.

So how isn't this perpetual rebuilding?

Rebuilding implies something was built in the first place. That's the trouble: it wasn't. Like the first attempt by Marvin to build a defense in Cincy, the initial shot at rebuilding the passing game -- draft Simpson and Caldwell, sign Utecht -- has flopped. The longer we put off trying again, the older the few working parts on the offense get.

[HoosierCat]

No matter how many times Hoosier attempts to portray my stance as a defensive version of his greedy WR rant it simply isn't true. Because I'm not asking for expensive assets to be burned on the very same positions where expensive assets have been repeatedly burned year after year.

And again, there's the disingenuous. The trouble is precisely that "expensive assets" have not been burned on the passing game year after year. In the last 10, count 'em, 10 drafts, the Bengals have spent exactly one (1) first round pick on a wide receiver, and that was Warrick all the way back in 2000. Only two second round picks have been used on wideouts, Chad in '01 and Simpson in '08. To round things out, there have been four 3rd round picks wideouts in the past 10 drafts. That's a grand total of seven out of 34 picks, not even an average of one per draft.

[derekshank]

So, with Chad and Benson nearing the end of their contracts, and Palmer getting older every year... I wonder fthe Bengals shouldn't be in all out 'Win Now' mode. And I wonder if the best way to do that would be to focus on improving the defense in the draft, and then afterwards, signing T.O. and Randy McMichael. Sure, neither of those guys are long term answers... but may be the best bet in an attempt to win in 2010.

And before you say that it's not Mike Brown's style, remember how many 1-year contracts he offered last year in an attempt to shore up the defense and rushing attack for a playoff run. If it's pass catchers the Bengals need, there are 1-year type guys out there for the taking.

If it didn't work, it would be just about time to attempt a full rebuild of the offense anyway. You might as well try to leap through the window while it's open, right?

Not really sure how I feel about it as it pertains to the future, but it's just a thought.

[Kazkal]

So, with Chad and Benson nearing the end of their contracts, and Palmer getting older every year... I wonder fthe Bengals shouldn't be in all out 'Win Now' mode. And I wonder if the best way to do that would be to focus on improving the defense in the draft, and then afterwards, signing T.O. and Randy McMichael. Sure, neither of those guys are long term answers... but may be the best bet in an attempt to win in 2010.

And before you say that it's not Mike Brown's style, remember how many 1-year contracts he offered last year in an attempt to shore up the defense and rushing attack for a playoff run. If it's pass catchers the Bengals need, there are 1-year type guys out there for the taking.

If it didn't work, it would be just about time to attempt a full rebuild of the offense anyway. You might as well try to leap through the window while it's open, right?

Not really sure how I feel about it as it pertains to the future, but it's just a thought.

Not only that but the Hobspin among others seem to be trying to get use to idea that were going to let Jjoe or Hall walk,Even though I think if team resigned them before FA could get em for fair prices...

So a win now mode April 22-25th

Rnd 1 Draft Mays

Rnd 2 Draft best passrushing DE or a DE/OLB

Rnd 3 Draft Best DT or Nickle CB

Rnd 3b Do the other

Rnd 4 Offer for Sheffler if he's still available If not just draft a TE

Rnd 4B Draft another TE because seriously Hill,Coffman & Coats atm.

Call T.O's agent before your next pick and sign him to a 5million 1 year deal

Rnd 5 Guard

rnd 6 Kicker

rnd 7 Water boy er Wide Receiver.

Get Depth at Every Defensive Position Add enough proven Offensive Power to make sure the offense will be productive and go lose a superbowl to the vikings and go back to our ways in the 90's drafting Carsons replacement Akili Smith Jr... Then watch Marvin become the HC of the Steelers Zimmer becomes the head Couch of the Texans....Nooooooooooooooo say it ain't so aunty em!

PS,Off to bed I'm getting weird.

[HoosierCat]

So, with Chad and Benson nearing the end of their contracts, and Palmer getting older every year... I wonder fthe Bengals shouldn't be in all out 'Win Now' mode. And I wonder if the best way to do that would be to focus on improving the defense in the draft, and then afterwards, signing T.O. and Randy McMichael. Sure, neither of those guys are long term answers... but may be the best bet in an attempt to win in 2010.

But how does drafting defensively help us win now? The consensus favorite, Taylor Mays, is an in-the-box safety. They could conceivably go DE, but they have two starters there in Geathers and Odom, and a 3rd rounder from last year, MJ, who showed some disruptive ability and whom they're still trying to work in. Tank and Domata aren't going anywhere; neither are Joseph and Hall. I short, while I would love to see the Bengals go from 10 to 1 on D, I'm not seeing how we do it next week. I think that if the Bengals go for defense in the draft, it's to continue a long-term building project. If they go offense, it will likely signal the same kind of shift toward drafting offensively we saw on the defensive side back in 2004.

[Kazkal]

But how does drafting defensively help us win now? The consensus favorite, Taylor Mays,

Depth for if a Starter so you have less drop off in play,More so when said starter has played 6 games in 2 years...

They could conceivably go DE, but they have two starters there in Geathers and Odom, and a 3rd rounder from last year, MJ,

You forgot Fanene,The problem I see with Defensive End was even when we were leading the NFL in sacks our passrush was still average Besides the Greenbay game,At the position were full of Elephant Ends who have High Motors but don't get the job when rushing the passer...Our Pass coverage led to more sacks by far then our Passrush helped out our DBs...Seriously the team needs to think about cutting geathers if he doesn't improve this season I like the guy but he's not getting the job done for money he's being paid.

who showed some disruptive ability and whom they're still trying to work in.

some disruptive?18th in sacks 28th if we take away greenbay I hate to use Focus as a reference but seriously,

http://profootballfocus.com/by_team.php?tab=by_team

29th Ranked Passrush which doesn't surprise me because well the sack count was avg constantly it seemed like opposing QB's had all day to throw...even OAKLAND was able to protect Bruce the entire game.

Tank and Domata aren't going anywhere; neither are Joseph and Hall.

Tank & Domata I agree aren't going anywhere but Zimmer still expressed he wants more passrush out of the middle...Atwan was probably our best passrushing DT last year.

all & Joseph we'll see because all of the CB talk could be a smoke screen but I do wonder if Joe Haden was available at 21 if the team would take him.

I short, while I would love to see the Bengals go from 10 to 1 on D, I'm not seeing how we do it next week.

Maybe not 1# But IMO overall problem with D last year was 1.)Average Pass rush 2.)Depth that when we were healthy things were fine but End of season we were hurting.

I think that if the Bengals go for defense in the draft, it's to continue a long-term building project. If they go offense, it will likely signal the same kind of shift toward drafting offensively we saw on the defensive side back in 2004.

PS,All in all I just don't feel any position in the draft is a must in round one...No matter who we take besides maybe a TE will not start this year without a Injury .

[HoosierCat]

Depth for if a Starter so you have less drop off in play,More so when said starter has played 6 games in 2 years...

Well, there ya go. If we are talking about using a first-round pick for depth on defense, maybe it could be spared for offense?

[Kazkal]

But Offense will be Depth too so um why dont we go BPA that will best help our team rather then reach?

Our passrush needs improvement as much as passing game

[cincyhokie]

But Offense will be Depth too so um why dont we go BPA that will best help our team rather then reavh?

Our passrush needs improvement as much as passing game

+1

[derekshank]

But Offense will be Depth too so um why dont we go BPA that will best help our team rather then reavh?

Our passrush needs improvement as much as passing game

+1

I've got this feeling as well... but also believe that generally this is a defensive draft. Especially on the line. I could easily see the BPA being a DT in the 1st and a DE in the 2nd (or vice versa). I get the feeling that some people here would be pissed if the Bengals went that route.

For my part though, it would address the biggest need the defense has to go from "Really Good" to "Elite" - and would not mind it in the least if the Bengals decide to fix the offense the way thy always used to address the defense... with short term contracts to guys nearing the end of their careers.

In the short term at least. I'm in 2010 mode right now, because I don't believe Chad has much left in the tank. I'm not sure how long this window will be open, and I'd like to see the Bengals make the most of it.

[Kazkal]

I get the feeling that some people here would be pissed if the Bengals went that route.

First feelings is I do think DT should be low on the scale being its 4th stringger and our Elephant Ends all play DT on passing downs...But end of day I trust in Zimmer and if he wants a player enough to get Mikey to call his name on Draft day then we must have needed him for our Defense...

In Zimmer we trust.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I get the feeling that some people here would be pissed if the Bengals went that route.

First feelings is I do think DT should be low on the scale being its 4th stringger and our Elephant Ends all play DT on passing downs...But end of day I trust in Zimmer and if he wants a player enough to get Mikey to call his name on Draft day then we must have needed him for our Defense...

In Zimmer we trust.

In the real world Zimmer doesn't get the call on a draft choice. Marvin is lucky to get his!

We all know Mike is still pulling the trigger here, and at this point I'm just hoping he knows which side of the barn to aim at.

[NJ29]

I am, for some reason, apprehensive about Marvin's statement the other day that they'll let their "draft board make the pick." I have no idea why, but I'm uncomfortable with that.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I am, for some reason, apprehensive about Marvin's statement the other day that they'll let their "draft board make the pick." I have no idea why, but I'm uncomfortable with that.

I take that as a comment towards the BPA. It's unusual for Cincinnati to have this opportunity, but I say roll with it.

[Kazkal]

In the real world Zimmer doesn't get the call on a draft choice. Marvin is lucky to get his!

Marvin Doesn't even get to by the way it seems,I just meant he puts in his input and if they take his guy well there was a reason he wanted this guy no?

As for Marvin I just see him and Zimmer seeing eye to eye anyways...The wild card is Mr Brown >_<

[GoBengals!]

If Dez is there at 21, absolutely pull the trigger and draft the guy. Dez Bryant is this year's Michael Crabtree (let's hope he doesn't have Craptree's agent though..sigh).

Draft em!

[ArmyBengal]

I've simply resigned myself to thinking the Bengals are going to draft Gresham. I can't say as I would mind that, as I really do think he would help this offense, but it doesn't overwhelm me either. If both Dez and Gresham are there at #21, I still think Dez presents a no brainer value pick.

[bwillycuse]

I've simply resigned myself to thinking the Bengals are going to draft Gresham. I can't say as I would mind that, as I really do think he would help this offense, but it doesn't overwhelm me either. If both Dez and Gresham are there at #21, I still think Dez presents a no brainer value pick.

I agree. With Sheffler gone. I just have a feeling its gonna be Gresham. I dont think Bryant falls to us.

IDK who to take but Gresham doesnt make me jump for joy. Bryant would be nice but I have some reservations about him as well.

Come on Thursday..Hurry the F up!!!

[ArmyBengal]

I think it's pretty telling in both what they currently have on the roster and what they want from a future TE in the draft why they didn't give up what the Broncos got for Schefler, a 5th round pick. I mean we had two 4th rounders and they didn't blink. I really think they are comfortable with what they have in Coffman and Hill for that matter as far a pass catching TE's and will be trying to shore up the blocking TE aspect of things.

[Kazkal]

I think it's pretty telling in both what they currently have on the roster and what they want from a future TE in the draft why they didn't give up what the Broncos got for Schefler, a 5th round pick. I mean we had two 4th rounders and they didn't blink. I really think they are comfortable with what they have in Coffman and Hill for that matter as far a pass catching TE's and will be trying to shore up the blocking TE aspect of things.

We have 2 Fourths....But it wasn't even the Lions 5th rounder it was the eagles so we could got him for a 5th o_O,Ohwell >_<