If Dez falls should the Bengals take him?

[walzav29]

I want to disclose that I said the Bengals would NOT take Andre Smith last year, BUT I thought they would take an offensive lineman. I guarantee they will not take a TE with the 21st pick in the draft. No chance. Dez very well could drop to them. If that happens he will be their pick.

[HairOnFire]

For example, Hoosier is currently pimping the 1st round pick be used to select Gresham, and he further states he wants two more pass catchers added as well.

Yup. But I don't think you'll have worry about that, with rumors now that Gresham may get snapped up by the Giants well ahead of our pick.

One can only hope, I guess.

FWIW, everytime I see a mock draft the Giants are projected to draft someone I really want....so the idea of them drafting Gresham, a guy I'm lukewarm about, strikes me as a good thing. Then again, it's just another draft rumor so I'm standing my previous stance.

I want Mays, but I'm expecting Gresham.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Agreed. Although, I would hesitate to take him even if he were there at 21. He apparently has a history of being late, not practicing, and, at times, lack of effort. Those are the same things that Marvin canned Rudi for a couple of years ago.

Would be interesting to see if Mike Brown would vito Marvins opinion on Byrant though,Which is probably part of the problem with him extending is Mikey doesn't wanna give u p his power.

PS,I would punch a hole in to my monitor if we gave up a 4th for Ginn...Most he is worth is a 6th the dude isn't even a WR he's simply a returner...

I seem to remember him having at least 1 maybe 2 100 yard games last year, put him in as a #3/4 WR along with Chad, Caldwell and Antonio, and he would be the vertical threat that Henry was.

I also think a 4th is a little high for him, but I would jump all over a 5th rounder for him. Just having him return kicks is worth a 5th.

[redsbengalsbucks]

For example, Hoosier is currently pimping the 1st round pick be used to select Gresham, and he further states he wants two more pass catchers added as well.

Yup. But I don't think you'll have worry about that, with rumors now that Gresham may get snapped up by the Giants well ahead of our pick.

Good, I dont want a 1st round rookie TE, that will not contribute till at least mid-season.

[derekshank]

I still am hoping to get McCoy from USC in the 3rd round.

There are still a few unrestricted FAs out there. I'm sure teams are waiting to see how the draft breaks down before they rush to sign some of these guys... but there are obvious picks like Reggie Kelly, Randy McMichael, L.J. Smith, and Steve Heiden.

If no good value TEs fall to the Bengals in this draft, they'll be able to get a stop-gap that will be a huge upgrade over what they had last year. And that's just one more reason I scream 'NO!" to Gresham in the 1st. I want nothing to do with a pass-catching TE who didn't play last year, and has a history of knee injuries dating back to high-school. Give me a lineman... or Taylor Mays.

[HairOnFire]

And that's just one more reason I scream 'NO!" to Gresham in the 1st.

If it happens I won't scream, exclamation points won't be abused, and I won't go all caps. Because after everything has played out it remains a realistic option, and I admit it may not be a bad one. But for me, it's never felt like the best one.

Not that I haven't tried to fall in love with the idea. The idea of Gresham in stripes is intruiging...if for no other reason than the way it would hopefully silence a decades long plea by the Bastard Sons for a 1st round TE.

We're all tired of that, right?

Yet everytime I crunch things I always end up with a half dozen defensive players being higher ranked. Furthermore, when I agree to ignore value in favor of offensive need I like another prospect better, and that player, Maurkice Pouncey, is usually ranked equally or better. Granted, that pick would lack any hint of sizzle, but I'm reminded how important OC was considered before last years draft, and in my opinion the position remains unsettled long-term and in need of a significant upgrade, either from the incumbent or a replacement. I lean towards the latter. And finally, I agree Gresham is a beast as a receiver, and I want that. Perhaps not as much as many of you, but I agree the Bengals need more red zone threats. But why pay a premium 1st round price for a bigger than average TE who reportedly blocks like a much smaller man?

Which brings me to Gronkowski, who I like better if health issues are tossed, and almost equally well even when considered. He probably isn't the threat Gresham is in the passing game, but he's damn good. Best, he actually plays like he looks. Regardless, the Gronkowski example reminds me that there are other options at TE if Gresham isn't selected....so I further cool on the idea.

So there it is....my dance with Gresham. Such as it is.

But yeah, he'd look good in stripes.

Damn.

[ArmyBengal]

And that's just one more reason I scream 'NO!" to Gresham in the 1st.

If it happens I won't scream, exclamation points won't be abused, and I won't go all caps. Because after everything has played out it remains a realistic option, and I admit it may not be a bad one. But for me, it's never felt like the best one.

Not that I haven't tried to fall in love with the idea. The idea of Gresham in stripes is intruiging...if for no other reason than the way it would hopefully silence a decades long plea by the Bastard Sons for a 1st round TE.

We're all tired of that, right?

Yet everytime I crunch things I always end up with a half dozen defensive players being higher ranked. Furthermore, when I agree to ignore value in favor of offensive need I like another prospect better, and that player, Maurkice Pouncey, is usually ranked equally or better. Granted, that pick would lack any hint of sizzle, but I'm reminded how important OC was considered before last years draft, and in my opinion the position remains unsettled long-term and in need of a significant upgrade, either from the incumbent or a replacement. I lean towards the latter. And finally, I agree Gresham is a beast as a receiver, and I want that. Perhaps not as much as many of you, but I agree the Bengals need more red zone threats. But why pay a premium 1st round price for a bigger than average TE who reportedly blocks like a much smaller man?

Which brings me to Gronkowski, who I like better if health issues are tossed, and almost equally well even when considered. He probably isn't the threat Gresham is in the passing game, but he's damn good. Best, he actually plays like he looks. Regardless, the Gronkowski example reminds me that there are other options at TE if Gresham isn't selected....so I further cool on the idea.

So there it is....my dance with Gresham. Such as it is.

But yeah, he'd look good in stripes.

Damn.

I will agree with this post 100%. It simply makes it easier than retyping everything you just said...

I'm still very curious to the reports on Gronkowski. That sort of went away in discussions of TE's.

[COB]

All I know about Dez Bryant is that after he got kicked off his college team in October, he had months to get in shape for the combine. He showed up overweight and out of shape to the combine and didn't work out. Months to do one thing, and he didn't bother to do it.

So he gets in shape and everyone has to fly to Oklahoma for his personal workout. They get there and Dez Bryant shows up, but he forgot his cleats. No s**t, couldn't even remember his own shoes for the one chance he had to show his stuff to his future employers. I actually think I like Chad more than I would like Dez Bryant. The Raiders should take him, he'd fit in perfectly there.

[derekshank]

I still say the only way I want Gresham in stripes is if he's there in the 2nd round.

The presence of defenders like Taylor Mays, Brian Price, O-Line help like Iupati and Pouncey... hell, if we have to go offense, I wouldn't mind getting Benson's replacement in Ryan Matthews.

I'm just far too worried about using a 1st round pick on a guy who didn't play last year, only started one season in college, is a one-trick pony, and has now torn ligaments in both of his knees. Way too many red flags for a 1st rounder.

Yes, I'll use exclamation points and capital letters. Maybe even bold, underlining, and larger sizing.

NO!!!

[TJJackson]

Didn't we once take this guy from USC with questionable knees, I'm thinking he was a hispanic guy, think he does commercials for a furniture store now, had a reasonably good career with the Bengals?

:-)

[kingwilly]

Didn't we once take this guy from USC with questionable knees, I'm thinking he was a hispanic guy, think he does commercials for a furniture store now, had a reasonably good career with the Bengals?

:-)

Oh, don't go there....

Blasphemy to even tacitly compare Senior Munoz to gresham.... no, not even the same planet.

[Kazkal]

I will agree with this post 100%. It simply makes it easier than retyping everything you just said...

I'm still very curious to the reports on Gronkowski. That sort of went away in discussions of TE's.

Maybe a team releasing rumors to try and get him to fall? I could see Patriots pulling dirty tricks l ike this

[HoosierCat]

FWIW, everytime I see a mock draft the Giants are projected to draft someone I really want....so the idea of them drafting Gresham, a guy I'm lukewarm about, strikes me as a good thing. Then again, it's just another draft rumor so I'm standing my previous stance.

I want Mays, but I'm expecting Gresham.

Oddly enough, I'd prefer Gresham, but am expecting Mays. And I wouldn't complain much if that happened, either.

My biggest worry is that they reach for a WR like Benn at 21.

[HairOnFire]

My biggest worry is that they reach for a WR like Benn at 21.

So you want a total of three, but not that one?

Under the circumstances I'm suprised you can be so picky.

[HoosierCat]

My biggest worry is that they reach for a WR like Benn at 21.

So you want a total of three, but not that one?

Not in the first. You see, unlike you, I'm not trying to be a d*ck on an internet message board, just thinking about what would benefit the Bengals most.

[derekshank]

My biggest worry is that they reach for a WR like Benn at 21.

Benn seems like an unlikely candidate given that Demaryius Thomas will likely still be available...

But even still, I'd prefer Benn, or Thomas, or Tate to Gresham. With one of those WRs, you're not going to have to teach him how to runblock and pass block D-Linemen while having bad knees.

If the Bengals didn't ask so much from their TEs, I could maybe buy into it... but I just can't see anything but 'mistake' being written all over Gresham if they use their 1st round pick on him.

[HoosierCat]

If the Bengals didn't ask so much from their TEs, I could maybe buy into it... but I just can't see anything but 'mistake' being written all over Gresham if they use their 1st round pick on him.

Hey, you rolls your dice and you takes your chances. I think the concerns about Gresham are being overblown, but I would definitely do the due diligence on his knees.

[HairOnFire]

You see, unlike you, I'm not trying to be a d*ck on an internet message board, just thinking about what would benefit the Bengals most.

So you're not deliberately trying to be a dick on an internet message board when you craft disingenuous rants that count this guy, but not that guy, from draft pick to starter?

As for what benefits the Bengals the most, is your opinion the only one that counts? Or is it so impossible for you to believe there might be other options just as worthy or even better?

And why is there a dick on your lips in the above quote? What's making you mad this time?

In fact, isn't this exactly what you were begging for only a few days ago?

[blueridge]

Of course they should take him. Because he is an elite playmaker at the WR position. Duh!

[HoosierCat]

You see, unlike you, I'm not trying to be a d*ck on an internet message board, just thinking about what would benefit the Bengals most.

So you're not deliberately trying to be a dick on an internet message board when you craft disingenuous rants that count this guy, but not that guy, from draft pick to starter?

As for what benefits the Bengals the most, is your opinion the only one that counts? Or is it so impossible for you to believe there might be other options just as worthy or even better?

I would ask you the same questions. It's hard to take your arguments seriously when all I get are assertions that are easily disproven, like how "half" the teams that made the playoffs last year had "miserable" passing games (they didn't) or how the Bengals "rebuild the passing game every year" (which they haven't). I'm happy to have a spirited discussion, but if you're going to ignore reality, what am I to conclude?

[HairOnFire]

I would ask you the same questions.

It would be an improvement over what you're doing now.

It's hard to take your arguments seriously when all I get are assertions that are easily disproven, like how "half" the teams that made the playoffs last year had "miserable" passing games (they didn't)....

You're right, I should have checked the stats first. I sometimes forget who I'm dealing with and how we're not actually having a normal converstaion.

.... or how the Bengals "rebuild the passing game every year" (which they haven't).

They haven't? Let's look at the last three years. Five new pass catchers added in the draft or free agency just two years ago. Then the most important and costly addition in free agency one year later. In addition, a 3rd round draft pick is burned on a TE, the very same position you advocate using a 1st round pick on only one year later. Predicatbly the Bengals also use another late round pick on yet another WR, presumably because they can't think of anything else to do.

And that brings us neatly to this year where the WR position is once again tabbed as the most important and costly addition in free agency. Furthermore, the Bengals add two more WR's, one of them a past 1st round pick, in minor deals.

And on top of all of the above you want three more EARLY draft picks allocated to the very same positions....presumably to replace the picks you begged for two years ago. Not to mention how I can take this rant back a year or two further and fold Kelly Washington, Chris Henry, Bennie Brazell, Tab Perry, Reggie McNeal, and a host of other names into the mix.

So how isn't this perpetual rebuilding?

And finally, what is your defense for this endless cycle of waste? Well, against all reason you claim it is the very fact the Bengals have almost nothing to show for their efforts that dictates they keep doing the exact same things over and over again. Endlessly.

Bottom Line: Remember when you used to repeat that bit about what defines insanity? Something about doing the exact same thing over and over again yet expecting different results.

[derekshank]

I'm loving this guys. The offseason is so slow when you guys aren't in the middle of a spat.

This one is just beginning... and I find myself wishing we had a couple more weeks before the draft was here.

So... Thanks!

[ArmyBengal]

I have to agree with Derek here. I mean, it's great seeing the debate and find myself at times agreeing with both sides to a degree.

Bottomline for me is, I just think there are other ways to improve this team. Then again, maybe Livings and Mathis are headed to the Pro Bowl....

[TJJackson]

Have I mentioned I want a lineman?

No?

Ok, there, it's been said :-)

If Dez can play a line position well, draft him. Otherwise - no. :-)

[Ickey44]

Have I mentioned I want a lineman?

That's news to me. I don't think you've made your opinion known. It is so noted, now, though.