semiotter Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 And the reason is because Bronson pitched a gem plus he had a RBI. This proves he is the "Best" starter they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 They needed that win. Good for Arroyo, but to bad he didn't get the win out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 More evidence that that the win/loss statistic for pitchers is complete garbage and should be eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 More evidence that that the win/loss statistic for pitchers is complete garbage and should be eliminated.It's not complete garbage. It's a very useful statistic. People just need to be aware that it doesn't tell the entire story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsbengalsbucks Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 More evidence that that the win/loss statistic for pitchers is complete garbage and should be eliminated.It's not complete garbage. It's a very useful statistic. People just need to be aware that it doesn't tell the entire story.Arroyo needs a little run support, next time he throws such a good game, then it wont matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 More evidence that that the win/loss statistic for pitchers is complete garbage and should be eliminated.It's not complete garbage. It's a very useful statistic. People just need to be aware that it doesn't tell the entire story.Agree to disagree, I guess. I see little to no value in the stat and am continually offended that it plays a role in deciding Cy Young Award winners and All Star Game participants. I'm sure you've a reason to feel that way, so I ask cordially that you share it. I hate that friggin' stat and would be happy to see the light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Run Support...Now there is something I get sick of hearing about for more than one reason.#1. With the players we have on this roster there is no reason to not be producing runs and this was a topic of conversation ALL of last season. While at the moment I can't remember the hitting coaches name, I can't believe the guy still has a job. It's been an ongoing problem for far to long. Jay Bruce's BA anyone ??#2. I'm sick of everytime Harang pitches and takes the loss, most people yammer on about how he doesn't get run support. Jesus, if you are the #1 pitcher in the rotation, how many f*cking runs do you need ?? Lets also not forget that it makes it more of a challenge for your team to do that when you give up 4 runs over the first 5 innings.Run Support my ass. Either do something about it or shut the f*ck up already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsbengalsbucks Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Run Support...Now there is something I get sick of hearing about for more than one reason.#1. With the players we have on this roster there is no reason to not be producing runs and this was a topic of conversation ALL of last season. While at the moment I can't remember the hitting coaches name, I can't believe the guy still has a job. It's been an ongoing problem for far to long. Jay Bruce's BA anyone ??#2. I'm sick of everytime Harang pitches and takes the loss, most people yammer on about how he doesn't get run support. Jesus, if you are the #1 pitcher in the rotation, how many f*cking runs do you need ?? Lets also not forget that it makes it more of a challenge for your team to do that when you give up 4 runs over the first 5 innings.Run Support my ass. Either do something about it or shut the f*ck up already...Well, since Arroyo drove in the first run and pitched a 1 run game into the 8th inning, I would say the run support he got was lacking by at least 1. Not many teams will hold the Cards to 1 run or less this season.Harang has historically been the recipient of some very low offensive numbers, but the last couple of seasons he has been the problem more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Run Support...Now there is something I get sick of hearing about for more than one reason.#1. With the players we have on this roster there is no reason to not be producing runs and this was a topic of conversation ALL of last season. While at the moment I can't remember the hitting coaches name, I can't believe the guy still has a job. It's been an ongoing problem for far to long. Jay Bruce's BA anyone ??#2. I'm sick of everytime Harang pitches and takes the loss, most people yammer on about how he doesn't get run support. Jesus, if you are the #1 pitcher in the rotation, how many f*cking runs do you need ?? Lets also not forget that it makes it more of a challenge for your team to do that when you give up 4 runs over the first 5 innings.Run Support my ass. Either do something about it or shut the f*ck up already...Well, since Arroyo drove in the first run and pitched a 1 run game into the 8th inning, I would say the run support he got was lacking by at least 1. Not many teams will hold the Cards to 1 run or less this season.Harang has historically been the recipient of some very low offensive numbers, but the last couple of seasons he has been the problem more often than not.So you agree... Harang has gotten a pass even though he gives up more runs than most while being the #1 guy in the rotation and our hitting coach isn't getting the players to produce runs (see hitting the ball). I can't believe this isn't a greater topic of conversation to tell you the truth. It's been going on for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsbengalsbucks Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Run Support...Now there is something I get sick of hearing about for more than one reason.#1. With the players we have on this roster there is no reason to not be producing runs and this was a topic of conversation ALL of last season. While at the moment I can't remember the hitting coaches name, I can't believe the guy still has a job. It's been an ongoing problem for far to long. Jay Bruce's BA anyone ??#2. I'm sick of everytime Harang pitches and takes the loss, most people yammer on about how he doesn't get run support. Jesus, if you are the #1 pitcher in the rotation, how many f*cking runs do you need ?? Lets also not forget that it makes it more of a challenge for your team to do that when you give up 4 runs over the first 5 innings.Run Support my ass. Either do something about it or shut the f*ck up already...Well, since Arroyo drove in the first run and pitched a 1 run game into the 8th inning, I would say the run support he got was lacking by at least 1. Not many teams will hold the Cards to 1 run or less this season.Harang has historically been the recipient of some very low offensive numbers, but the last couple of seasons he has been the problem more often than not.So you agree... Harang has gotten a pass even though he gives up more runs than most while being the #1 guy in the rotation and our hitting coach isn't getting the players to produce runs (see hitting the ball). I can't believe this isn't a greater topic of conversation to tell you the truth. It's been going on for some time.I was hoping that they would unload Harang during the offseason, but now that he is back; hopefully he can get back to a winning form. He has been a major letdown the last two seasons and he gets way to many passes due to his previous success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Oh don't get me wrong. I'm hoping for all the success in the world for Harang, but it irritated me right from jump when he gave up 4-5 runs on opening day, only to have the Harangatans (that's what I call the fans that) offer up the excuse of run support. It simply pisses me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 More evidence that that the win/loss statistic for pitchers is complete garbage and should be eliminated.It's not complete garbage. It's a very useful statistic. People just need to be aware that it doesn't tell the entire story.Agree to disagree, I guess. I see little to no value in the stat and am continually offended that it plays a role in deciding Cy Young Award winners and All Star Game participants. I'm sure you've a reason to feel that way, so I ask cordially that you share it. I hate that friggin' stat and would be happy to see the light.Because I'm a stat teacher, and my word is law in these matters Seriously though... in general, pitchers with a winning record are better than pitchers with a losing record. If you get a list of pitchers and sort them by # of wins, then you're going to get a fairly decent list with better pitchers towards the top and worse pitchers towards the bottom. There are obviously exceptions, and we could discuss those all day. That doesn't mean the stat is useless. It simply means that it needs to be used in conjunction with other #s (ERA, etc.). I don't know of any iron clad stat in sports. If there were, then it'd be the only stat we'd bother keeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Seriously though... in general, pitchers with a winning record are better than pitchers with a losing record. If you get a list of pitchers and sort them by # of wins, then you're going to get a fairly decent list with better pitchers towards the top and worse pitchers towards the bottom.I agree that the league-wide trend would show that good pitchers normally win their decisions, but I think the same can be said (with even more accuracy) about most other pitching stats. Strikeouts aren't overly telling, I don't think, but they can be just as useful as win/loss. ERA is a good statistic, but even it is blatantly flawed by its failure to incorporate defense beyond just errors, or ballpark size, or league average.There is definitely no single perfect stat, but there are plenty of improvements already made upon baseball statistical analysis that I think make things such as win/loss and saves essentially obsolete by comparison.ERA+Quality startsWARThose are three improved stats that measure the same things more effectively. They're pretty simple in terms of formula, unlike some of the more complex sabermetric concepts. Now, don't get me wrong. Win/loss and ERA have been around for a long time and are a part of baseball presentation. That's fine, keep them on TV so people can bathe in nostalgia. When votes are being cast for Cy Young Awards though, I really want that thought process gone.That's just pitchers too. Hitting statistics are almost as bad.Tack on an "IMO" to all of the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Reds win again on Stubbs grand slam in the 8th. Very nice against the Cubbies.That being said, Bailey looked to struggle and was constantly behind in the count. He will need to clean that up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsbengalsbucks Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Boy that 9th inning looked like a pee-wee game for the Reds infeilders. Very lucky to have pulled that one out in the end. What is up with the Reds batters, I dont think the middle of the lineup could hit a beach ball hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Reds win again on Stubbs grand slam in the 8th. Very nice against the Cubbies.I love it when the Reds play the Cubs. I get to see the games on WGN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Seriously though... in general, pitchers with a winning record are better than pitchers with a losing record. If you get a list of pitchers and sort them by # of wins, then you're going to get a fairly decent list with better pitchers towards the top and worse pitchers towards the bottom.There is definitely no single perfect stat, but there are plenty of improvements already made upon baseball statistical analysis that I think make things such as win/loss and saves essentially obsolete by comparison.This is the only statement I'd disagree with. I don't see the problem as being the statistic itself but more in the way that people tend to abuse it by treating it as law.Otherwise, we're on the same page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Reds win again on Stubbs grand slam in the 8th. Very nice against the Cubbies.I love it when the Reds play the Cubs. I get to see the games on WGN!Yeah, same here, although listening to the WGN announcers is painful beyond belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Reds win again on Stubbs grand slam in the 8th. Very nice against the Cubbies.I love it when the Reds play the Cubs. I get to see the games on WGN!Yeah, same here, although listening to the WGN announcers is painful beyond belief.Yup, there's no arguing that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsbengalsbucks Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 When are Bruce, Phillips, Rolen, Hernandez and even Votto somewhat going to have the big slump breaking game? This hitting is getting very stale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semiotter Posted April 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 More evidence that that the win/loss statistic for pitchers is complete garbage and should be eliminated.It's not complete garbage. It's a very useful statistic. People just need to be aware that it doesn't tell the entire story.That's a good point Skyline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semiotter Posted April 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Ahhhhhhhhhhhh !! Baseball talk I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Francisco sure looked horrid this afternoon. 4 Ks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Does anyone think the game threads I did last year had any value or is it just easier to have a free for all about the Reds ??There are only a handful of us that come in here and talk about them, so do you guys think it matters ??I could start doing those again if you think there was value to it. Let me know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Does anyone think the game threads I did last year had any value or is it just easier to have a free for all about the Reds ??There are only a handful of us that come in here and talk about them, so do you guys think it matters ??I could start doing those again if you think there was value to it. Let me know...I think a thread for each series would be justified. Every game would be a bit much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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