gregstephens Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 One casino will not save the city. Detroit has three.Maybe.But neither will fear and inaction. If GABP would have been built in the right place the casino location might be a non-issue.Not disagreeing here either. But it's vastly the same brain trust that made that decision that still has the keys to the store, or different people associated with the same brain trust.I guess I tend to not get hung up so much in the past, who's to blame, etc. I really don't care who/what/how we got here. I guess I could blame the city 200 years ago for not investing into rail and letting Chicago go that route.I just look for and notice progress. I see the signs that things can change. I'm hopeful that they can continue. This city has a huge black eye. It's not going to heal overnight. Are we as good as we were 15 years ago? No. Are we better than we were last year? Yes. This is all I care about. Moving forward.I can appreciate that outlook and, for the record, I don't ROOT for the city/county to go tits-up. I actually hope it can revitalize, clean up OTR, bring back jobs, etc. I'm also torn on the whole, 'mass transit' thing. I see the positives. I see the costs to a community that doesn't have the funds. I just don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I can appreciate that outlook and, for the record, I don't ROOT for the city/county to go tits-up. I actually hope it can revitalize, clean up OTR, bring back jobs, etc. I'm also torn on the whole, 'mass transit' thing. I see the positives. I see the costs to a community that doesn't have the funds. I just don't know.Right on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Ray Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I guess what started this whole thing was a debate on stadiums and its debt. Well Indianapolis supposedly has a thriving downtown and they have the same debt questions surrounding Lucas Oil Stadium. You can Google about a dozen stories on how Indy bit off more than they could chew on that deal. I also read where they haven't even paid off a dollar of principle on the RCA Dome.As for Cincinnati, yes they have their problems like most downtowns do but they're not heading towards bankruptcy. Heck, even Detroit has dodged that bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I guess what started this whole thing was a debate on stadiums and its debt. Yeah, now that you mention it. Debate the vitality of greater Cincinnati all you want, but one thing remains clear. This isn't a mess of the Bengals making and they're not responsible for or even capable of fixing all of the problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 As for Cincinnati, yes they have their problems like most downtowns do but they're not heading towards bankruptcy. Bankruptcy isn't a thing to always be avoided. Corporations and savvy small operations use it as a strategy. If Hamilton County would do the same, use the threat of bankruptcy as a strategy, I think they'd find the Brown family more than willing to negotiate the terms of the present lease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Bankruptcy isn't a thing to always be avoided. Corporations and savvy small operations use it as a strategy. If Hamilton County would do the same, use the threat of bankruptcy as a strategy, I think they'd find the Brown family more than willing to negotiate the terms of the present lease. Haven't the Bengals, by offering tens of millions of dollars in concessions, already proven their willingness to renegotiate the terms of the current lease? Regardless, let's say the threat has been made...whether implied or directly. Now lets say Mike Brown has weighed the threat and found it lacking. He simply doesn't take the threat of bankruptcy seriously. Or maybe life has taught Mike Brown the same lesson I've learned, how every threat received brings with it opportunity. Afterall, under the scenario painted Hamilton county is guilty of non-performance, and it wouldn't be very hard for the Bengals to prove how they'd be further harmed by the cram down scenario you just described. So why wouldn't Hamilton County face the same risk that made San Diego collectively blink, where the lease is ruled invalid....immediately freeing the team to move to a new city more capable of meeting it's financial obligations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Haven't the Bengals, by offering tens of millions of dollars in concessions, already proven their willingness to renegotiate the terms of the current lease?They're willing to negotiate only because it is in their best interests to do so.They've done nothing here that is generous or kind - they've acted in their own self-interest, not altruistically on behalf of Hamilton County and/or it's citizenry.They are the same scumbags they have always been - strong in the courtroom, weak in football knowlege Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Haven't the Bengals, by offering tens of millions of dollars in concessions, already proven their willingness to renegotiate the terms of the current lease?They're willing to negotiate only because it is in their best interests to do so. It's in their own best interests only as long as they continue wanting to remain in Cincy, a small backwater marketplace to begin with, and one that now seems increasingly incapable of paying it's bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 They are the same scumbags they have always been - strong in the courtroom, weak in football knowlege Well you should consider the above the only warning you're likely to get because attempting to force a cramdown on Mike Brown will involve things like lease contracts, bankruptcy law, and all sorts of things Mike Brown has proven himself to be quite competent at. So go ahead. Spurn the opportunity to engage in good faith negotiations in favor of Todd Portune's nuclear option. After all, Hamilton County knows what it's doing, right? Bankruptcy is smart stuff. So do it. I dare ya. Step into his wheelhouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Ray Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 They are the same scumbags they have always been - strong in the courtroom, weak in football knowlegeI don't understand how being strong in the courtroom makes them scumbags... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 They are the same scumbags they have always been - strong in the courtroom, weak in football knowlegeI don't understand how being strong in the courtroom makes them scumbags... As I understand the rant, by taking advantage of Cincy's prairie politicians Mike Brown has emptied the cities coffers, thereby dooming the youth of Cincinnati to uneducated bleak existences toiling in beet fields and pork slaughterhouses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregstephens Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 They are the same scumbags they have always been - strong in the courtroom, weak in football knowlegeI don't understand how being strong in the courtroom makes them scumbags...Yeah, what are you implying here, Colonel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Ray Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Just because Mike Brown negotiates in the best interests of his business does not mean he's a scumbag. Any owner of a multimillion dollar business would do the same. Is Jim Irsay of the Colts a scumbag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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