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Ranking Bratkowski


HairOnFire

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My biggest problem with Brat is that he never seems to have any real concept of how to successfully break down and attack the opponent's defense nor does he get more out of the talent he has available to him.

The awesome offensive season of '05 was dependent on having a great line, a great QB, a great set of receivers, a solid RB and TE. Only when his talent is great can Brat seem to do anything productive, but, honestly, in that situation, how good of an OC do you need to be to score 400+ points? With decent to good talent like this past season (I think the o-line was a nice surprise), Brat only managed to score 17.5/game on offense which is not good enough. Add in the fact there were and have been for years way too many three and outs which put even more pressure on the defense, which, in contrast to the offense, responded very well to a great coordinator and maybe you can understand why I want an overhaul of the offense starting with brat being gone.

Granted Carson needs to be more accurate and effective, but isn't making that happen a part of Brat's job? IDK, if nothing changes can we really expect anything different next year?

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Historically I've been no huge fan of bratkowski but some of the complaints here are frustrating. The biggest one I take issue with is creativity.

Did you see those three big passes completed by the Jets on Sunday. Sanchez ran a misdirection and the receivers were wide open. How often do you see receivers that wide open for Carson? Brat needs to devise some plays to get his guys open. That's his job

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Historically I've been no huge fan of bratkowski but some of the complaints here are frustrating. The biggest one I take issue with is creativity.

Did you see those three big passes completed by the Jets on Sunday. Sanchez ran a misdirection and the receivers were wide open. How often do you see receivers that wide open for Carson? Brat needs to devise some plays to get his guys open. That's his job

I'd blame the defense for allowing those midirection plays (very commonplace misdirection plays) to work so effectively. That wasn't creativity, it was blown coverage.

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Historically I've been no huge fan of bratkowski but some of the complaints here are frustrating. The biggest one I take issue with is creativity.

Did you see those three big passes completed by the Jets on Sunday. Sanchez ran a misdirection and the receivers were wide open. How often do you see receivers that wide open for Carson? Brat needs to devise some plays to get his guys open. That's his job

I'd blame the defense for allowing those midirection plays (very commonplace misdirection plays) to work so effectively. That wasn't creativity, it was blown coverage.

I think the point is that as an OC you need to continously plan and scheme despite your teams injuries and who you are playing, etc. You can't bang your head against the wall and simply say "It worked all year, it'll work now."

Not that you're saying that...

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I'll throw my two cents in here and say what I think:

1. Brat's playcalling tendencies by down are incredibly predictable.

2. The failure to develop a pass catching TE or RB has forced this passing offense to use outside of the numbers routes. When that happens and you have inconsistency in your WR corps, problems arise.

3. The inability to attack Cover 2 schemes is hard for me to understand. Cover 2 is like Brat's kryptonite. That is why we were able to run so well this year. Brat lacks both the aggressiveness and patience to attack Cover 2. Why Brian Leonard wasn't employed more often on 1st and 2nd down in base formations is beyond me.

4. Our personnel packages are incredibly indicative of what the playcall will be.

5. The overall gameplanning seemed to be "Well, we'll throw in a few wrinkles, but we are a running team and they are gonna have to stop us cold for us to give up on it." It was a throw your cards on the table and see if the other guy could beat it mentality and it failed in the end.

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The overall gameplanning seemed to be "Well, we'll throw in a few wrinkles, but we are a running team and they are gonna have to stop us cold for us to give up on it." It was a throw your cards on the table and see if the other guy could beat it mentality and it failed in the end.

True, it did fail in the end.

That said, we were "treated" to a completely different type of ending this season, weren't we?

A playoff berth.

And ignoring the crushing ending for just a moment...(wait for it)....they managed a 9-3 start before emotionally and physically wearing down.

Frankly, I liked the grinding style more than most, and believe strongly that any success this team has going forward will need to be built upon a willingness to build the passing game upon the running foundation.

Bottom Line: I've had my fill of Diva-Ball and Clown Shoes....and I don't want to go back.

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The overall gameplanning seemed to be "Well, we'll throw in a few wrinkles, but we are a running team and they are gonna have to stop us cold for us to give up on it." It was a throw your cards on the table and see if the other guy could beat it mentality and it failed in the end.

True, it did fail in the end.

That said, we were "treated" to a completely different type of ending this season, weren't we?

A playoff berth.

And ignoring the crushing ending for just a moment...(wait for it)....they managed a 9-3 start before emotionally and physically wearing down.

Frankly, I liked the grinding style more than most, and believe strongly that any success this team has going forward will need to be built upon a willingness to build the passing game upon the running foundation.

Bottom Line: I've had my fill of Diva-Ball and Clown Shoes....and I don't want to go back.

This team succeed during one of the most trying set of circumstances I have ever seen a professional sports team go through.

Obviously, they drew strength from the challenge but I agree that they eventually wore down emotionally and physically.

After going through it this year, and absent a recurrence of tragedies next year, I think the team will be better for it and can use it as the glue for many years to come.

Performance-wise, they must continue to run the ball. They must innovate more to get Carson open looks at his WR's based on the success of the running game. Carson needs better weapons, and those weapons must have schemes/routes/plays to get the most out of their strengths. Carson needs to reconcile if he is physically fine and the organization must play a role in getting him corrected.

Do the above and, to me, the offense is one top shelf FA wide receiver away from going the distance.

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Frankly, I liked the grinding style more than most, and believe strongly that any success this team has going forward will need to be built upon a willingness to build the passing game upon the running foundation.

Bottom Line: I've had my fill of Diva-Ball and Clown Shoes....and I don't want to go back.

OK, fine, but do you think Brat is the one who can build the passing game around the running foundation? I think not and that's why he should go.

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OK, fine, but do you think Brat is the one who can build the passing game around the running foundation? I think not and that's why he should go.

Oh, I understand the point being made, and I agree that if the offense will be dramatically rebuilt around new plays, schemes, and concepts, well.....a new face might be the way to go.

That said, I don't see anything that makes me think Marvin wants a change in coaches. In fact, I look at last season as proof of Brat doing things in exactly the manner Marvin dictated.

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Oh, I understand the point being made, and I agree that if the offense will be dramatically rebuilt around new plays, schemes, and concepts, well.....a new face might be the way to go.

That said, I don't see anything that makes me think Marvin wants a change in coaches. In fact, I look at last season as proof of Brat doing things in exactly the manner Marvin dictated.

Yeah but now you're changing the parameters in mid discussion. I agreed with your premise that the team should "be built upon a willingness to build the passing game upon the running foundation". Now you're changing that parameter to an offense "dramatically rebuilt..."

I agree, I don't think Marvin wants the offense "rebuilt" and he doesn't want to lose the gains made in the power running attack this year. But I do think he wants a better than feeble passing attack or at least he should. This passing game has deteriorated over the past three years under Bratkowski and I've lost confidence that he can right the freefall. If so, why hasn't he done it?

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Oh, I understand the point being made, and I agree that if the offense will be dramatically rebuilt around new plays, schemes, and concepts, well.....a new face might be the way to go.

That said, I don't see anything that makes me think Marvin wants a change in coaches. In fact, I look at last season as proof of Brat doing things in exactly the manner Marvin dictated.

Yeah but now you're changing the parameters in mid discussion. I agreed with your premise that the team should "be built upon a willingness to build the passing game upon the running foundation". Now you're changing that parameter to an offense "dramatically rebuilt..."

I agree, I don't think Marvin wants the offense "rebuilt" and he doesn't want to lose the gains made in the power running attack this year. But I do think he wants a better than feeble passing attack or at least he should. This passing game has deteriorated over the past three years under Bratkowski and I've lost confidence that he can right the freefall. If so, why hasn't he done it?

Yes... the passing game has deteriorated under Brat. It's also deteriorated under Palmer and Chad, and perhaps most importantly, under the yearly reworking of the O-Line.

I'm probably as close to a Brat apologist as there is - and it wouldn't bother me one bit if he was let go. But I also think it's a little simplistic to lay all of the problems at the feet of the play caller. He wasn't the one overthrowing receivers. He wasn't the one dropping easily catchable balls. He wasn't the one allowing pass rushers to get to Palmer before a play has time to develop (something that Palmer and Chad absolutely need to be a real threat).

Could the passing game improve if Brat is replaced? Sure. I believe that's possible. But I think it's silly to suggest that there aren't important personnel problems on this roster that need to be addressed if you're hoping for Palmer to ever look like an MVP candidate again... or even a pro-bowler.

I also believe that Marvin is building this team into his own image... a very physical team that relies very little on the fancy passing attack that we became so accustomed to in '05-'07. So, while we're all placing a great deal of blame on Brat's playcalling, doesn't there exist the possibility that we're killing the messenger here? Isn't it possible that he's merely carrying out the orders of the guy in charge who has openly stated that he wants this team to be built on defense and the running game... and nearly every roster move he makes seems to back up those statements?

Is it really a surprise that the predictable gameplan that so many people hate is the exact formula that Marvin has repeatedly said is his goal?

Just saying...

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Oh, I understand the point being made, and I agree that if the offense will be dramatically rebuilt around new plays, schemes, and concepts, well.....a new face might be the way to go.

That said, I don't see anything that makes me think Marvin wants a change in coaches. In fact, I look at last season as proof of Brat doing things in exactly the manner Marvin dictated.

Yeah but now you're changing the parameters in mid discussion. I agreed with your premise that the team should "be built upon a willingness to build the passing game upon the running foundation". Now you're changing that parameter to an offense "dramatically rebuilt..."

I agree, I don't think Marvin wants the offense "rebuilt" and he doesn't want to lose the gains made in the power running attack this year. But I do think he wants a better than feeble passing attack or at least he should. This passing game has deteriorated over the past three years under Bratkowski and I've lost confidence that he can right the freefall. If so, why hasn't he done it?

Yes... the passing game has deteriorated under Brat. It's also deteriorated under Palmer and Chad, and perhaps most importantly, under the yearly reworking of the O-Line.

I'm probably as close to a Brat apologist as there is - and it wouldn't bother me one bit if he was let go. But I also think it's a little simplistic to lay all of the problems at the feet of the play caller. He wasn't the one overthrowing receivers. He wasn't the one dropping easily catchable balls. He wasn't the one allowing pass rushers to get to Palmer before a play has time to develop (something that Palmer and Chad absolutely need to be a real threat).

Could the passing game improve if Brat is replaced? Sure. I believe that's possible. But I think it's silly to suggest that there aren't important personnel problems on this roster that need to be addressed if you're hoping for Palmer to ever look like an MVP candidate again... or even a pro-bowler.

I also believe that Marvin is building this team into his own image... a very physical team that relies very little on the fancy passing attack that we became so accustomed to in '05-'07. So, while we're all placing a great deal of blame on Brat's playcalling, doesn't there exist the possibility that we're killing the messenger here? Isn't it possible that he's merely carrying out the orders of the guy in charge who has openly stated that he wants this team to be built on defense and the running game... and nearly every roster move he makes seems to back up those statements?

Is it really a surprise that the predictable gameplan that so many people hate is the exact formula that Marvin has repeatedly said is his goal?

Just saying...

I like Marvin's plan. I'd just like to see someone be able to execute it better than Bratkowski. His gameplans seem to have little room for error as he is continually unable to adjust midgame...or for that matter at the midpoint of the season on.

All of the competitive Bengals teams in 2003, 2005, 2006, and 2009 have faded offensively as the year has gone on. Most notably 2003, 2005, and 2009.

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Oh, I understand the point being made, and I agree that if the offense will be dramatically rebuilt around new plays, schemes, and concepts, well.....a new face might be the way to go.

That said, I don't see anything that makes me think Marvin wants a change in coaches. In fact, I look at last season as proof of Brat doing things in exactly the manner Marvin dictated.

Yeah but now you're changing the parameters in mid discussion. I agreed with your premise that the team should "be built upon a willingness to build the passing game upon the running foundation". Now you're changing that parameter to an offense "dramatically rebuilt..."

I agree, I don't think Marvin wants the offense "rebuilt" and he doesn't want to lose the gains made in the power running attack this year. But I do think he wants a better than feeble passing attack or at least he should. This passing game has deteriorated over the past three years under Bratkowski and I've lost confidence that he can right the freefall. If so, why hasn't he done it?

Yes... the passing game has deteriorated under Brat. It's also deteriorated under Palmer and Chad, and perhaps most importantly, under the yearly reworking of the O-Line.

I'm probably as close to a Brat apologist as there is - and it wouldn't bother me one bit if he was let go. But I also think it's a little simplistic to lay all of the problems at the feet of the play caller. He wasn't the one overthrowing receivers. He wasn't the one dropping easily catchable balls. He wasn't the one allowing pass rushers to get to Palmer before a play has time to develop (something that Palmer and Chad absolutely need to be a real threat).

Could the passing game improve if Brat is replaced? Sure. I believe that's possible. But I think it's silly to suggest that there aren't important personnel problems on this roster that need to be addressed if you're hoping for Palmer to ever look like an MVP candidate again... or even a pro-bowler.

I also believe that Marvin is building this team into his own image... a very physical team that relies very little on the fancy passing attack that we became so accustomed to in '05-'07. So, while we're all placing a great deal of blame on Brat's playcalling, doesn't there exist the possibility that we're killing the messenger here? Isn't it possible that he's merely carrying out the orders of the guy in charge who has openly stated that he wants this team to be built on defense and the running game... and nearly every roster move he makes seems to back up those statements?

Is it really a surprise that the predictable gameplan that so many people hate is the exact formula that Marvin has repeatedly said is his goal?

Just saying...

So in saying that. Is having a 100 Million dollar quarterback a waste of money in that kind of scheme. I would think you would want that money on the line. Moreover, you would need wrs that are bigger and that can block. Chad and Palmer do not fit in that scheme IMO. Chad is useless in helping a running game.

Heck, Mike Vick would be better suited for a run first offense.

I really dont want a run slanted offense. I want a balanced offense. But if we are going to be a rn oriented offense then get the whole offense for that. Big WRs that can block. More OLine depth. Forget about drafting WR in first 2 rounds. And consider whether a QB like Carson Palmer is the right guy in that offense.

Seriously...I wont buy this run first crap until Carson is gone. I just think we couldnt pass this year because the pass offense was terrible.(injuries, personnel, etc) If we draft WR high or get someone big in FA then we will know this offense wants to be more balanced. But please decide already.

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Seriously...I wont buy this run first crap until Carson is gone. I just think we couldnt pass this year because the pass offense was terrible.(injuries, personnel, etc) If we draft WR high or get someone big in FA then we will know this offense wants to be more balanced. But please decide already.

Well, Hair's perfectly capable of defending his own points of view, but IMO the bottom line is that, the ideas that: (1) they wanted a run-first offense; and (2) the passing game went to crap because of injuries and an inexperienced o-line, are not incompatible theses.

For my money, it was only the fact that they were dedicated to 1 from the outset that mitigated 2 to the point where they could even sniff the playoffs, much less (as they did) make them.

Give Carson some weapons, stiffen the o-line, you'll be surprised at the improvement.

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Even if this is a run first offense that doesn't preclude them from not jumping off sides and running proper patterns. It's the execution and playcalling of this offense that I have a problem with and that lays at the feet of the O coordinator.

I think we can agree that this offense never was more smooth than when Hugh was coaching the WRs. That's coaching and discipline imposed by the coaching.

Watch Peyton this weekend. His receivers are always where they're supposed to be and Peyton knows where to look for them. That's because they practice so much they can execute with their eyes closed. I get the idea our offense is not as dedicated to perfection.

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Even if this is a run first offense that doesn't preclude them from not jumping off sides and running proper patterns. It's the execution and playcalling of this offense that I have a problem with and that lays at the feet of the O coordinator.

I think we can agree that this offense never was more smooth than when Hugh was coaching the WRs. That's coaching and discipline imposed by the coaching.

Watch Peyton this weekend. His receivers are always where they're supposed to be and Peyton knows where to look for them. That's because they practice so much they can execute with their eyes closed. I get the idea our offense is not as dedicated to perfection.

That's the truth. Unfortunately, the defense is dedicated to perfection. They overacheived with the cast they have. Give Zimmer more playmakers and he will do even more.

As far as the offense goes, the amount of procedure and false start penalties are evidence this offense needs a change...starting with some of the coaches.

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Even if this is a run first offense that doesn't preclude them from not jumping off sides and running proper patterns. It's the execution and playcalling of this offense that I have a problem with and that lays at the feet of the O coordinator.

I think we can agree that this offense never was more smooth than when Hugh was coaching the WRs. That's coaching and discipline imposed by the coaching.

Watch Peyton this weekend. His receivers are always where they're supposed to be and Peyton knows where to look for them. That's because they practice so much they can execute with their eyes closed. I get the idea our offense is not as dedicated to perfection.

Agreed

As far as the offense goes, the amount of procedure and false start penalties are evidence this offense needs a change...starting with some of the coaches.

Can't be Couches rewarded here for underachieving...Alexander Iffy Oline was much improved from last year but at the same time the dude seems so Stubborn when it came to Collins & Roland...Sheppard well he seems like a great guy it's clear as day our WR's have been getting worse each year Hue has left and well I like Caldwell & Quan as young guys but could you picture if they had Hue working with them instead...Hayes it's hard to gouge really never given much to work with Until Coffman who was Injured / learning to block for first time..Then Brat who people wanna say it's easy thing to do is criticize a Offensive Coordinator gotta with Cedric when he said seemed like the other teams defense knew it was time for the Bengals to run the Ball.

"hides after he posts a bleacher report"

Bob Bratkowski Stays: Why Are the Bengals Keeping This Offensive Coordinator?

Eric Ball by

The biggest running complaint about the 2009 Bengals wasn’t concerning receivers, special teams, or the tight end; it was about the play calling. The once high-powered Bengals offense had been reduced to a motorized scooter running out of battery power.

Offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski has taken the majority of the criticism, and rightfully so. The run, run, pass scenario played out way too much for most fans' liking. The creativity consisted of a reverse to a receiver with the quarterback having to throw a block. The lack of flea-flickers and zigzag routes didn’t bother fans as much as the predictability. Talk radio was consistently oozing ungodly amounts of "fire Bratkowski" venom.

More often than not, a seasoned Bengals fan had a good idea of the play that was about to be run. If it's pretty obvious to the general public, imagine the lack of strategy needed for opposing defenses. The midseason tweaks and adjustments were ineffective, and it cost the team dearly in the end.

Unfortunately, the Bengals have an owner that takes penny-pinching to a new height. Firing a guy before his contract is up would require Mike Brown to fork over some extra cash—and that's not going to happen. Bratkowski will be back for his 10th season as offensive coordinator of the Bengals, according to the team's official Web site.

How is this possible? Coordinators are hired and fired at will. There are only two head coaches (Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid) that have been at their current positions for more than 10 years; a coordinator sticking around that long is unheard of. It's understandable if Brat has achieved multiple seasons of success during the decade. Well, having two playoff losses doesn’t scream being worthy of such a rare feat.

For the entire second half of the ‘09 season, the passing game consisted of nothing but slants and screens—with maybe the occasional overthrown deep ball just to keep the defenses thinking the Bengals had some sort of vertical attack.

The running game was without a doubt the bread and butter of the ’09 offense. But the stubbornness and repetitiveness of the Bratkowski approach was easily sniffed out as the year wore on. Cedric Benson had more than 27 carries six times, and that includes the three-and-a-half games missed because of his hip injury. He had 301 total carries, and he might have had close to 400 without the injury.

The best offensive performance in the second half of the season was the 27-24 loss to the Chargers. The deep slants were there, and Chad Ochocinco caught a 49-yard bomb that came courtesy of a vintage Carson Palmer pass. The running game was actually not relied on to do the heavy lifting for once, as Benson had only 15 carries.

The 24 points were the most scored in a game during the second part of the year. Palmer looked comfortable with the aggressive game plan as he racked up a season-high 314 passing yards (43 yards more than the next highest).

The hurry-up style implemented in the second half of the game provided a more fluent and balanced attack. Never was the game plan or offensive fireworks it provoked ever implanted again for the rest of the season. The result was scoring 17 points against the Chiefs and a combined 14 points in two straight games against the Jets.

This past season, the Bengals defense was seventh against the run and sixth against the pass for the fourth overall ranked D. It is only the third time in franchise history—and the first since 1989—that they have finished in the top 10 in all three categories in the same season. In short, they had a phenomenal season, and next year the unit could get even better with all the young guys coming back.

The major question for Bengals fans going into the 2010 season is simple: Can Bob Bratkowski be trusted with navigating this stale and underachieving offense?

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Well, Hair's perfectly capable of defending his own points of view, but....

But maybe Hair has problems understanding the points made by others?

Seriously, I understand many of the points being made by those screaming for Brat's head on a stick. But are some of you suggesting Brat is no longer capable of building a competent passing attack? Or that Palmer can't be a competent QB in any run-first system?

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Seriously, I understand many of the points being made by those screaming for Brat's head on a stick. But are some of you suggesting Brat is no longer capable of building a competent passing attack? Or that Palmer can't be a competent QB in any run-first system?

I'll chime in. I think Palmer can do fine in a run first system, in fact such a system may be in his best interests as he moves into his 30s. Think Elway with Terrell Davis.

However I have lost confidence that Bratkowski can build a competent passing game. He hasn't done it for three years now and I think that's enough rope to give him. Maybe it would happen again if he's given an assistant coach like Hue Jackson but if that's what he needs then maybe he shouldn't be "the guy" to run the offense either.

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Well, Hair's perfectly capable of defending his own points of view, but....

But maybe Hair has problems understanding the points made by others?

Seriously, I understand many of the points being made by those screaming for Brat's head on a stick. But are some of you suggesting Brat is no longer capable of building a competent passing attack? Or that Palmer can't be a competent QB in any run-first system?

Carson will definitely be competant, yes..of course. But for premium price for a gunslinging QB that is not mobile or elusive to run a run offense to me doesnt seem ideal. He is a passer and we arent using our highest paid player for his strenghts. We have Palmer locked up and our RB has one year left. We ran ok this year. Not real well inside the 20 though.

idk - I just hope management knows what they are doing.

Ive been unimpressed with Brat for a long time. Yeah he can create a few plays that work, but our passing attack this year really seemed subpar compared to a lot of teams.

Oh and how does Carson really feel about a run first offense? How does that look to any potential free agent WR.

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This has been something that's been bugging me but I've seen quite a few people on several forums Blame the Run Orreriented offense being the Problem and That Carson is meant toair it out...But when you look at Attempts to RUn and Pass Between 2005 & 2009 It's fairly close to same Percents...

2009

459 Attempts Running :

477 Attempts Passing

28 more Passes

2005

505 Attempts Running

538 Attempts Passing

33 More passes

So the Ratio seems close enough to the same Just less successful plays and less sustained Drives this year...So maybe the Lack of Hurry up? Carson did a great job when it came to last Quarter after Defense would kept us in games...

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Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD% INT INT% Long Sck Sack/Lost Rating

2009 Carson Palmer 466 282 3,094 60.5 6.6 21 4.5 13 2.8 73 26 213 83.6

Rushing - 505-4.1, 9 rushing tds

Turnovers +0

30 offensive tds

2005 Carson Palmer 509 345 3,836 67.8 7.5 32 6.3 12 2.4 70 19 105 101.

Rushimg 459-4.2, 15 rushing tds

Turnover - +24

so 47 offensive tds

Im with you KAZ...The Bengals keep saying they are run first but I know they ran Rudi a lot in 2005. It just looked like they passed more because they scored points. This team couldnt finish this year. I do understand that they tried to shorten games which aids defensive stats and lowers offensive totals.

I just know that the Bengals didnt dictate when they threw the ball. They didnt fool anyone. And threw a ton underneath.

1. If we are so focused on the run according to Coach Lewis, then why dont the numbers back that up. (I really think we are suited for a balanced attack and should stop this run offense talk)

2. Wow look at the turnover differential. Wow...Wow again. 2005 was amazing. 2009...not so much..Im looking for improvement in turnovers next year. Need some harder hitters...Mauluga will step it up. Rivers? Lets see some highlights reel stuff please. DBs need to hold onto those INTs.

3. 17 more offensive TDs in 2005? With the same stats? Looks like we cant score now once we get close. Why? Run/Run/Pass? No Henry? Did defenses figure Brat out? I guess with out all the stalled drives graham would have even worse stats.

So I want a balanced attack. I want a big WR that can score in the red zone and who also can block when the run is coming to his side.(dare i say it a Ward type minus the maddening personality defects and cheap shots) I want a TE. I want Scott to touch the ball a lot more. Receptions out of backfield please. I also want to return to the time when I thought Carson was an accurate passer. Im not there right now. BUt again, he is our Franchise lets get him his weapons.

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