If no CBA is reached?

[PhunkE1]

Cole's deal immidiately comes to mind, but can you guys think of any other overpaid players that will get cut? I know other teams will take advantage of this, but I wasn't sure if Mikey would. If there's no CBA then there's no salary cap for next year, so you could cut players before a certain time and obsorb the entire cap hit in this uncapped year. I think we grossly overpaid Coles, but with our lack of WR depth should we take the risk of cutting him? My concern is that Mike's cheap ass will miss out on all decent FA WR's this offseason. Whatcha think?

[ArmyBengal]

Coles strikes me as a difficult situation. Our WR corps lacks much outside of Chad and what are left with if there is no Coles ?? I think it looks very limited and for all the talk of Coles having to learn a new system, I don't think it's out of reason to say give it another year working with Carson before cutting ties.

Now that should also be taken into consideration with the fact the position could also attempted to be addressed in free agency and the draft.

I just don't see Coles going anywhere.

[Ickey44]

I don't either. Consider that we've lost Henry and Caldwell seemed to get worse as the year went on. Plus, Simpson is still a no show. Cosby did well when he had the chance though. Maybe there's something there.

Sadly, if Brat is still the coordinator it's not gonna matter. He won't utilize most of our players as he should.

[TJJackson]

Simpson had his chance and showed nothing

He's done - and by done, I mean he may well still go to 2010 camp, but by the end of camp, he's no longer a Bengal

[BlainThePain]

There won't be any major players cut from our team because if there isn't a new CBA, then we are limited in free agency. With no CBA, the teams that made the playoffs can only sign a player if they lose another player in free agency.

[Ickey44]

Whoa. I've never heard that before. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What if they cut someone? Does that count?

[kevnz]

Don't forget, no cap means there is no floor as well. So if Brown is as cheap as most thinks he is, he could cut a number of players, and pay walk-ons next to nothing. And the rules of the no cap are pretty messed up and complicated. It's actually really bad for players and small market teams.

[Kazkal]

There won't be any major players cut from our team because if there isn't a new CBA, then we are limited in free agency. With no CBA, the teams that made the playoffs can only sign a player if they lose another player in free agency.

Blaine were always Limited in Free Agency I don't see a Uncapped year having any effect on us,I don't see Tank Command a 60,000,000 Million DOllar deal and besides him The Uncapped year helps us because it makes alot of our young guys RFA like Brandon (Who we can Tender well try work out a long term extension)

Don't forget, no cap means there is no floor as well. So if Brown is as cheap as most thinks he is, he could cut a number of players, and pay walk-ons next to nothing. And the rules of the no cap are pretty messed up and complicated. It's actually really bad for players and small market teams.

I don't see that happening Mike has had no problem paying his own players and he always spends closer to cap then the Minimum(Where I know other teams in pass would keep 20-30 million in cap space available.

PS,I never heard about the only can sign someone if you lose someone.

[HoosierCat]

There won't be any major players cut from our team because if there isn't a new CBA, then we are limited in free agency. With no CBA, the teams that made the playoffs can only sign a player if they lose another player in free agency.

IIRC that only applies to the final eight, which we're not a member of, unfortunately.

[mgilgris]

HoosierCat is right. Only the remaining 8 teams are the ones "limited" in free agency. Bengals unfortunately are always limited

[HairOnFire]

So what are the relevant numbers in regards to Coles?

All I remember is thinking at the time it was realistically only a one or two year deal. So what's the hit if he's tossed?

[HoosierCat]

So what are the relevant numbers in regards to Coles?

All I remember is thinking at the time it was realistically only a one or two year deal. So what's the hit if he's tossed?

It doesn't appear that there will be a cap this year, so there's no such thing as a cap hit this time around.

But yeah, Coles had a very front loaded deal IIRC, something $10-11 million of it in 2009. Given that investment, I won't be surprised if the FO keeps him on to try to get something for their money.

[kingwilly]

So what are the relevant numbers in regards to Coles?

All I remember is thinking at the time it was realistically only a one or two year deal. So what's the hit if he's tossed?

It doesn't appear that there will be a cap this year, so there's no such thing as a cap hit this time around.

But yeah, Coles had a very front loaded deal IIRC, something $10-11 million of it in 2009. Given that investment, I won't be surprised if the FO keeps him on to try to get something for their money.

Coles could be alright as a 3. If they got a "real" WR, like Marhsall or Boldin,they could ease Chad to 2 and coles/caldwell/quan to 3/4. Given the $, they will not do anything, and I will single-handedly support a boutique single malt scotch manufacturer overseas.

[Ickey44]

There won't be any major players cut from our team because if there isn't a new CBA, then we are limited in free agency. With no CBA, the teams that made the playoffs can only sign a player if they lose another player in free agency.

According to PFT, the CBA rule you speak of applies only to the final 8 teams in the playoffs.

Under Article XXI, Section 3 of the CBA, the Cowboys, Cardinals, Vikings, Saints, Jets, Ravens, Chargers, and Colts will be limited in their ability to sign unrestricted free agents in 2010.

First, the Final Eight teams may sign any unrestricted free agent who obtained that status by being released and clearing waivers.

Second, the Final Eight teams may sign any unrestricted free agent who was under contract with that team at the conclusion of the 2009 league year.

Third, one unrestricted free agent may be signed for each unrestricted free agent that a Final Eight team loses, but only at the same first-year salary the departed player receives elsewhere, with limitations on future growth of the deal.

Fourth, the Final Eight teams may sign one unrestricted free agent at a first-year salary of $4.925 million (plus the annual percentage increases in total football revenue since 2006), and an unlimited number unrestricted free agents at a first-year salary of $3.275 million (plus the percentage increases of total football revenue since 2006), with limitations on future growth of the deal.

[Pidge]

Whether Coles stays or not, we really need help at WR. Chad is a number two. Still capable of big plays but time is catching up to him. Maybe the Maccy Ds are finally taking their toll as well. Bit silly to do it all but eating a fair amount of junk food the wrong side of 30 just isn't doing him any good whatsoever from an athletic POV.

Caldwell - there's potential there but who knows if he's ready next yr. The tail off midway through this season implies he probably won't be anything more than the 3rd WR/slot guy again. Simpson - anything we get out of the guy at this point is a bonus. Unless he has a damn good camp next off-season he might not even be here for the regular season anyway.

So, if Coles stays, we have another smallish WR with questionable hands at this point and who will have lost another step and gained another yr in age. Whoopdy-f**king-doo.

I dunno, hopefully the TE situation won't be as dire in 4 or 5 months' time. That would really take a bit of pressure of the WR corps if we could, for the first time in the 6 or 7 yrs I've been following the Bengals in anger, get some plays to the TE position.

[Ickey44]

I dunno, hopefully the TE situation won't be as dire in 4 or 5 months' time. That would really take a bit of pressure of the WR corps if we could, for the first time in the 6 or 7 yrs I've been following the Bengals in anger, get some plays to the TE position.

Having healthy TE's will definately help next year with the style of offense they want to implement here. Kelly isn't the fastest guy by any stretch, but he's got fairly reliable hands. Coffman can catch, but can he block? Foschi can do both fairly well.

As evidenced by the two huge plays the Jets had against us, a good running game with a good PA fake and a good TE can do some damage. I hope Brat was taking notes if he's to be retained.

[ArmyBengal]

To be fair to Brat (can't believe I just said that) the plan all along was to run 2 TE sets this season with Kelly and Utecht and Coats in the mix.

When the first two went down, we were left with Coats and a rookie they planned all along to have learn for the majority of the season.

Get healthy at the position and I think we are looking at 2 TE sets with Kelly and Coffman and Foschi in the mix.

If there's concern, you can go FA (which I think is limited) or the draft in the LATER rounds.

[HairOnFire]

As evidenced by the two huge plays the Jets had against us, a good running game with a good PA fake and a good TE can do some damage.

Palmer's thumb injury prevented play action faking. You simply can't ask your QB to try pulling the ball back from the RB's gut using that handoff, and opposing teams knew it.

I hope Brat was taking notes if he's to be retained.

I hope Zimmer was taking notes because his defense was backdoored and bootlegged into submission.

[Ickey44]

Palmer's thumb injury prevented play action faking. You simply can't ask your QB to try pulling the ball back from the RB's gut using that handoff, and opposing teams knew it.

I know that. For next year, that's not an issue.

[HairOnFire]

Palmer's thumb injury prevented play action faking. You simply can't ask your QB to try pulling the ball back from the RB's gut using that handoff, and opposing teams knew it.

I know that. For next year, that's not an issue.

Well, that just the thing. Marvin has already said next seasons offense will be different, and all but said the experiment with unbalanced lines will be discarded. And whether they use a 1st round pick on a new TE or simply pick up one off the street they PROBABLY won't lose their top three players at that position again. So I'm guessing we can expect to see less gimmicks and more traditional methods from whomever is calling the shots, Brat included.

[Kazkal]

xperiment with unbalanced lines will be discarded

That's good news to hear and Shouldn't be needed if Whit & Andre are the Tackles.

[COB]

whether they use a 1st round pick on a new TE or simply pick up one off the street they PROBABLY won't lose their top three players at that position again.

That makes me wonder what happens with Roy Williams next year. That dude had a star-crossed year in 2009. First he bashes Utecht's head in during a pre-season practice, putting our free-agent tight end on the IR, then on the street. Then he follows that up with rebreaking his arm that apparently never healed right and getting IR'd himself. We might need a tight end and a safety. Or two.

[Ickey44]

I'd still like him back anyway. On the off-chance that his arm is finally healed correctly, he showed he's still got some game left in what little time he played last year. Plus, he's a leader in the locker room.

[HairOnFire]

whether they use a 1st round pick on a new TE or simply pick up one off the street they PROBABLY won't lose their top three players at that position again.

That makes me wonder what happens with Roy Williams next year. That dude had a star-crossed year in 2009. First he bashes Utecht's head in during a pre-season practice, putting our free-agent tight end on the IR, then on the street. Then he follows that up with rebreaking his arm that apparently never healed right and getting IR'd himself. We might need a tight end and a safety. Or two.

I have a sneaky suspicion Roy Williams is done. And I have an even sneakier suspicion Williams knows this as well. So my sneakiest suspicions tell me he'll be back. Mostly because he's already talking about wanting to return to Cincy...even at veteran minimum.

If it were up to me I'd move on by commiting to a new healthy player, rookie or veteran, but I openly wonder if the Bengals can bring themselves to ignore their insatiable lust for offensive skill position players with Williams waiting in the wing.

[Kazkal]

whether they use a 1st round pick on a new TE or simply pick up one off the street they PROBABLY won't lose their top three players at that position again.

That makes me wonder what happens with Roy Williams next year. That dude had a star-crossed year in 2009. First he bashes Utecht's head in during a pre-season practice, putting our free-agent tight end on the IR, then on the street. Then he follows that up with rebreaking his arm that apparently never healed right and getting IR'd himself. We might need a tight end and a safety. Or two.

Roy looked solid the first 3 games and was playing special teams,Marvin & Zimmer have both said they want Roy back so if he's healthy at start next season I look for them to sign him...Not like hes gonna cost anything.