After Thoughts Chiefs vs Bengals

[COB]

need another WR to fill up the ego-void left by TJ and Slim and give this crew an identity.

And what an identity that would be. It'd be tough to pry him away from Warner, but very worth the effort. Funny, getting a guy like Bolden would about be a dream come true for this team, yet scenarios in which we proactively obtain guys like this never even enter my mind until I read them on here.

Lumina.

[JoePong]

@Pong, watching Freeman today, and Brees just jetting the ball around, firing laser after laser, and comaring it to Carson(I watched the game at a place where TB/Sants were the game on the next LCD), most times it is a big and glaring discrepency in arm power/accuracy.

Absolutely.

Remember the difference in our offense when Carson first took over for Jon Kitna, and how you could see such a difference in the passing game and the kind of throws Carson could make?

Well, that difference is now gone. Carson Palmer is now Jon Kitna.

The difference between watching Carson Palmer and other top QBs in the NFL now is the same as watching the difference between Kitna and a young Palmer. And our passing game is now very similar to what it was when Kitna was our starter. In fact, it's probably worse now that it was with him.

[kingwilly]

@Pong, watching Freeman today, and Brees just jetting the ball around, firing laser after laser, and comaring it to Carson(I watched the game at a place where TB/Sants were the game on the next LCD), most times it is a big and glaring discrepency in arm power/accuracy.

Absolutely.

Remember the difference in our offense when Carson first took over for Jon Kitna, and how you could see such a difference in the passing game and the kind of throws Carson could make?

Well, that difference is now gone. Carson Palmer is now Jon Kitna.

The difference between watching Carson Palmer and other top QBs in the NFL now is the same as watching the difference between Kitna and a young Palmer. And our passing game is now very similar to what it was when Kitna was our starter. In fact, it's probably worse now that it was with him.

I don't think it is quite that bad. And further, if it is just that his arm is not yet 100%, there is time to get him better. Kitna just had a low ceiling.

AAR, it could be that Carson's shelf life could have a shortened expiration, as he played heavy snaps at USC, sat for a year and has played heavy here as well.

It would be downer if what we are seeing is the downward wane of Carson.... Not ready to call it yet but there is an explanation here, waiting for it....

[jjakq27]

@Pong, watching Freeman today, and Brees just jetting the ball around, firing laser after laser, and comaring it to Carson(I watched the game at a place where TB/Sants were the game on the next LCD), most times it is a big and glaring discrepency in arm power/accuracy.

Absolutely.

Remember the difference in our offense when Carson first took over for Jon Kitna, and how you could see such a difference in the passing game and the kind of throws Carson could make?

Well, that difference is now gone. Carson Palmer is now Jon Kitna.

The difference between watching Carson Palmer and other top QBs in the NFL now is the same as watching the difference between Kitna and a young Palmer. And our passing game is now very similar to what it was when Kitna was our starter. In fact, it's probably worse now that it was with him.

We should try to get Kantna back next year.

[kingwilly]

@Pong, watching Freeman today, and Brees just jetting the ball around, firing laser after laser, and comaring it to Carson(I watched the game at a place where TB/Sants were the game on the next LCD), most times it is a big and glaring discrepency in arm power/accuracy.

Absolutely.

Remember the difference in our offense when Carson first took over for Jon Kitna, and how you could see such a difference in the passing game and the kind of throws Carson could make?

Well, that difference is now gone. Carson Palmer is now Jon Kitna.

The difference between watching Carson Palmer and other top QBs in the NFL now is the same as watching the difference between Kitna and a young Palmer. And our passing game is now very similar to what it was when Kitna was our starter. In fact, it's probably worse now that it was with him.

We should try to get Kantna back Pennington next year.

There, fixed it for you. Pennington can manage a game, make all but the deep pass, and won't be a huge drop-off from Carson in terms of knowledge and experience.

[jjakq27]

Might as well bring Byron Leftwich in too. Remember he graded out higher than Carson on some of the "intangibles" and some kinda mental test before the 2003 draft.

[Kazkal]

I don't fear any team in our first post season game with the exception of Houston (who have given us two successive ass kickings) if they were fortunate enough to have all the results fall for them to get in. Enjoy it people.

Texans scare me less since they no longer have Owen Daniels....But Every other team has a pretty good TE :|

[Kazkal]

Now, lets talk about Carson and his waterlogged arm. I think something is amiss.

No doubt. Just looking at his passes comapred to some of the top QBs in the NFL and there is an obvious difference. It's like comparing a high school QB to a top notch college QB. The amount of time his passes hang in the air is just sad, especially on passes to the sideline.

Something is really wrong with him he was never this inaccurate. I still think the coaches here have him hand cuffed and wont let him run his plays. How do you run it when there is 8/9 guys in the box, its the best time to throw over there heads, but they dont. He is not the same QB, and that does worry me some. Today was a day when they didnt have all those drive killing penalties, but yet the offense couldnt even move the ball agaisnt the 30th ranked defense. I dont get it, but then yet can have a 98 yard drive at the end. ???????? i just dont get it.

Well Handcuffing could be it,Look at Carsons best drives they tend to be end of the game or final drives where he probably has the go to hurry things up...I dunno I could live with Brats play calling in the pass but this season it has made me wanna yank my eyes out outside of a few plays.

[Stripes]

I don't understand why people assume Palmer's arm is malfunctioning. I've not noted any problems with his velocity. His deep balls don't flutter any more than most other NFL quarterbacks, and when he needs to squeeze it into a tight window he still does it occasionally. Sometimes his accuracy has been erratic this season, but not his arm strength as far as I've seen. I think I recall some of the sideline throws that might have appeared rather ducky at first sight, but Palmer often completes that pass because he added that little extra touch to get it over a linebacker's reach.

The receivers are still struggling to get separation on intermediate and deep routes. Beyond that, I think the passing game is fine (which is to say it's not fine because of the receivers).

*edit*

I'm sure everyone saw those two attempts to stretch the field yesterday when Caldwell went deep? Palmer's throws were on target, but he was totally blanketed.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I don't understand why people assume Palmer's arm is malfunctioning. I've not noted any problems with his velocity. His deep balls don't flutter any more than most other NFL quarterbacks, and when he needs to squeeze it into a tight window he still does it occasionally. Sometimes his accuracy has been erratic this season, but not his arm strength as far as I've seen. I think I recall some of the sideline throws that might have appeared rather ducky at first sight, but Palmer often completes that pass because he added that little extra touch to get it over a linebacker's reach.

The receivers are still struggling to get separation on intermediate and deep routes. Beyond that, I think the passing game is fine (which is to say it's not fine because of the receivers).

*edit*

I'm sure everyone saw those two attempts to stretch the field yesterday when Caldwell went deep? Palmer's throws were on target, but he was totally blanketed.

IMO he's been looking down his primary receivers from the snap. It makes the opposing safeties job too easy.

[Stripes]

IMO he's been looking down his primary receivers from the snap. It makes the opposing safeties job too easy.

I can agree with that. I think the two problems go hand in hand though. With Coles and Caldwell struggling to consistently get open, Palmer probably has developed a bad habit of waiting for Chad to bail him out.

[derekshank]

And on that note, I'm curious to see if Chad is still as great as he says. He always claims that he is double and triple teamed. Well, this week he'll be out there on Revis Island. No excuses. Man on man.

The Jets are superb at bracketing the rest of their secondary making it difficult for other WRs to get open. If te Bengals have any passing game against the Jets, it will be because Chad got the better of the league's best CB. I'm sort of excited about that matchup.

[kingwilly]

I don't understand why people assume Palmer's arm is malfunctioning. I've not noted any problems with his velocity. His deep balls don't flutter any more than most other NFL quarterbacks, and when he needs to squeeze it into a tight window he still does it occasionally. Sometimes his accuracy has been erratic this season, but not his arm strength as far as I've seen. I think I recall some of the sideline throws that might have appeared rather ducky at first sight, but Palmer often completes that pass because he added that little extra touch to get it over a linebacker's reach.

The receivers are still struggling to get separation on intermediate and deep routes. Beyond that, I think the passing game is fine (which is to say it's not fine because of the receivers).

*edit*

I'm sure everyone saw those two attempts to stretch the field yesterday when Caldwell went deep? Palmer's throws were on target, but he was totally blanketed.

I am not "Assuming", I am comparing. His arm is NOT what we've come to expect. He has thrown about 8 actual deep balls all season and connected on about 3 (Chad in SD, Coles for 40 and Henry for 60+). Several of the pases he has made, many that have been intercepted, are due to lack of velocity and accuracy. To me, this means his arm is not right. It is not falling off but it is certainly not what is was.

I do agree that the wr's are struggling to get separation quite often. Wrong routes for the talent we have.

As to the deep attempts yesterday, one was underthrown badly and intercepted, and the other was good coverage.

Now, after watching all the games, and considering how Carson used to be able to pick apart good coverage, I think his arm is not right and they evolved the running game because his arm has a so-called pitch count, and they save much of the gas in passing game tank in case it is needed at the end to win a game (Which we have clearly seen happen).

So, does this mean his arm/elbow is shot? I hope not. It could be they limit it as well because his arm is still healing and the want to impair that as little as possible. It is just a clear and stark difference when you look at the arms of guys whipping the ball and Carson. Brees, Rogers, Freeman, McNabb, Romo, Rivers...these guys are firing the ball all game. Carson's arm is not there yet.