Coats -vs- Coffman

[agreen_112]

We don't wanna see him block.

Actually, I think you do. Your problem is Coffman can't block worth spit, and until he can improve to a point where he's no longer a liability as a blocker I'm guessing he's not going to take meaningful snaps away from anybody, including Daniel Coats. Because again, if Coffman were given the snaps Coats played against Houston our precious and beloved "Crash-Test Dummy" would have been matched up against Mario Williams all day long.

It's pretty simple dude. There's no reason why Coffman shouldn't be in there in those situations. NONE.

Oh, I'm pretty certain there's a legit reason Coffman isn't playing, and for all of your complaining I bet you know what that reason is without being reminded.

I swear you and TJ are the masters of chopping up a quote and spinning it in another direction... The point is this: In those passing situations, Coats shouldn't be running the route. Coffman should be in the game. Bottom line. I said we should've made the changes going into week 6. Coats is garbage. He's had enough chances.

I disagree with Marv on this one. The best experience is hands on learning. Get him out there on the field now. Let him dabble in a few screens where he doesn't neccessarily have to protect the QB. Put him in on some running plays, see what he can do. Then, when he's called on to run a route and catch a ball, maybe then he won't drop a HUGE pass and shatter our drives like Coats and Foshi

[HairOnFire]

The point is this: In those passing situations, Coats shouldn't be running the route. Coffman should be in the game.

And he will be in the game the moment the coaches feel he's better than the likes of Daniel Coats and JP Foschi. Until then he sits because BOTH of those waiver-wire quality players are better blockers. Furthermore, Hoosier was dead on when he wrote about how the Bengals would be blowing teams out if they could correct Coats habit of dropping passes. Granted, that's a pretty big "IF" right now, but keep in mind how Coat's mistakes have been on potentially game changing plays. Downfield strikes the likes of which we haven't seen from a TE since Tony Stewart was in his prime.

So I ask you, gentle reader, which is more likely to happen quickly?

Teaching Daniel Coats to catch the ball better OR teaching Chase Coffman how to do absolutely everything better?

[Pidge]

Considering Coats has had two yrs and no signs of improvement to his hands, maybe Coffman?

Hurry up Andre and get healthy. Go with 6 O-linemen if needs be. I like the potential of Coats but he's f**k all use ultimately if he only catches those crucial, game-changing passes in practice. Maybe he's juts a mental softcock. He doesn't have the gumption to do it in a game when it matters. It's not really important. A drop is a drop, whatever the reasons.

[jjakq27]

This afternoon Dave Lapham was asked the question why Coffman hasn't been activated for a game yet in spite of the struggles of Coats. The long and short of it is that he would probably be required to play some special teams and his inclusion would affect the other special teams groupings if he is unable to play "teams".

In essense, Coffman had never lined up in a three-point stance prior to spring practice after the draft. He also was never asked to block in his HS and college career. So in spite of all his pedigree and receiving records, he is extremely raw in NFL terms and would be considered a bit of a liability or one-dimensional at this point.

[COB]

He was distraught?

Yea, I feel ya. The wailing and gnashing of teeth coming from the area of seat 12, row 21, section 247 was unseemly. Then I think I made up some new swear words. My wife calls it swearing in tounges. She was like, "calm down you old fool, it was just one fumble." Then I'm like, "Woman, fwooo.. grough foooom gneeekell!"

[TJJackson]

I disagree with Marv on this one

well, thats why he is a highly paid professional, and you are paycheck to paycheck and occasionally begging for help online

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Downfield strikes the likes of which we haven't seen from a TE since Tony Stewart was in his prime.

Tony Stewart *had* a prime? How long did that last, three quarters? Sadly, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if we're really that desperate.

What's next, pining for Matt Schobel?

[kingwilly]

This afternoon Dave Lapham was asked the question why Coffman hasn't been activated for a game yet in spite of the struggles of Coats. The long and short of it is that he would probably be required to play some special teams and his inclusion would affect the other special teams groupings if he is unable to play "teams".

In essense, Coffman had never lined up in a three-point stance prior to spring practice after the draft. He also was never asked to block in his HS and college career. So in spite of all his pedigree and receiving records, he is extremely raw in NFL terms and would be considered a bit of a liability or one-dimensional at this point.

obviosly they were not planning for Kelly to snap his achilles, or for Utecht to go all "Glass-Jawed Joe" but WTF did they draft him for? They do not feature a TE, and the ones they do use are block first, block second, catch third. WTF did they draft him for? Stupid.

What a luxury that we are SO deep at ALL positions that we can take luxury picks like Simpson, who is slower to develop than kids who..never mind, bad joke, and Coffman, who essentially played a slow, oversized WR in college who we must now "convert" to a real life NFL TE.

Perhaps they could just ADJUST the scheme and put someone like Quan or Scott in on the check-down, underneath routes? Go 5 wide...Ever consider that Brat? Maybe eliminate those guys who are costing us possessions and downs?

Damn, this is just not that hard.

[SupaBran]

First of all, Marvin is saying he is all Hamilton County at practice meaning he is playing better than our other tight ends if thats what you want to call them! But he's not playing b/c of Special Teams and the returners we face! Hey, here's an idea buttwipe: Don't play him on Special Teams! Use those PoS's Coats and Foschi on teams! Gawd these kind of decisions make me wonder if another coach would make such a great player ride the pine!

[SupaBran]

This afternoon Dave Lapham was asked the question why Coffman hasn't been activated for a game yet in spite of the struggles of Coats. The long and short of it is that he would probably be required to play some special teams and his inclusion would affect the other special teams groupings if he is unable to play "teams".

In essense, Coffman had never lined up in a three-point stance prior to spring practice after the draft. He also was never asked to block in his HS and college career. So in spite of all his pedigree and receiving records, he is extremely raw in NFL terms and would be considered a bit of a liability or one-dimensional at this point.

obviosly they were not planning for Kelly to snap his achilles, or for Utecht to go all "Glass-Jawed Joe" but WTF did they draft him for? They do not feature a TE, and the ones they do use are block first, block second, catch third. WTF did they draft him for? Stupid.

What a luxury that we are SO deep at ALL positions that we can take luxury picks like Simpson, who is slower to develop than kids who..never mind, bad joke, and Coffman, who essentially played a slow, oversized WR in college who we must now "convert" to a real life NFL TE.

Perhaps they could just ADJUST the scheme and put someone like Quan or Scott in on the check-down, underneath routes? Go 5 wide...Ever consider that Brat? Maybe eliminate those guys who are costing us possessions and downs?

Damn, this is just not that hard.

I agree with everything you said. If, and I hate that we are like this, but we want our tight ends to block b4 they can walk! Its redikulus! I just don't get it! If all you want is a blocker than just put another tackle out there, its not like their D's have to worry about guarding Coats or Foschi! If you want a blocking tight end, why draft Chase in the first place? Makes no sense!

Does anyone else feel like Bernard Scott is the running back reincarnation of Jerome Simpson? They will not develop him for whatever reasons...

[Stripes]

People keep using the term "obvious passing down", and I'm curious exactly what they have in mind. Plays run in the two-minute drill when down by a touchdown? Any 3rd down play longer than 3 yards?

When the Bengals are in a situation in which they absolutely must pass, they most often go with four wide and a backfield option. I'd rather have Leonard, Benson, or Scott on the field than Chase Coffman right now, both for their proven ability to contribute in the passing game (aside from Scott) and for their blitz pickup.

And does anyone really think Coffman should be on the field ahead of Chad, Coles, Caldwell, or Henry in an obvious passing situation?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

And does anyone really think Coffman should be on the field ahead of Chad, Coles, Caldwell, or Henry in an obvious passing situation?

That's exactly it. There's a good chance that, at this point, Coles is a better blocker than Coffman. Only way I put Chase ahead of one of them is if he has a specific skill as a receiver (like holding onto the ball in traffic) that makes him worth it.

If the dude isn't as good a receivers as the ones we currently dress, and he doesn't block better than the receivers we currently dress, and he can't block at all in the running game, then he doesn't dress. Simple as that.

But damn, how long is it gonna take for him to learn the blocking schemes?

[Pidge]

And does anyone really think Coffman should be on the field ahead of Chad, Coles, Caldwell, or Henry in an obvious passing situation?

But damn, how long is it gonna take for him to learn the blocking schemes?

Well it takes some good blocking TEs at the college level a yr or so sometimes. Chase hasn't been asked to block at all, not even in HS I think. So, a while I guess.

Maybe try out Leonard? He can pick up blitzes well enough I imagine and we know, we've seen it with our eyes, he can catch the ball at least. Maybe get him out on the shorter routes.

Coats will be back on the streets, where he belongs with his stone hands, soon enough. God I miss Reggie.

[justinsage]

People keep using the term "obvious passing down", and I'm curious exactly what they have in mind. Plays run in the two-minute drill when down by a touchdown? Any 3rd down play longer than 3 yards?

When the Bengals are in a situation in which they absolutely must pass, they most often go with four wide and a backfield option. I'd rather have Leonard, Benson, or Scott on the field than Chase Coffman right now, both for their proven ability to contribute in the passing game (aside from Scott) and for their blitz pickup.

And does anyone really think Coffman should be on the field ahead of Chad, Coles, Caldwell, or Henry in an obvious passing situation?

Good points and observations. Like my old man said, "you don't teach a swimmer to be a first baseman, you teach him to be a better swimmer." Teaching Coats how to catch is like teaching a monkey to drive a car. Sure it's funny to watch on YouTube, but at the end of the day, it's just a huge waste of time!

The mind-blowing item for me is that a huge strength of our D is the ability to go in at half time and make adjustments, while our O can't seem to adjust a LazyBoy!, let alone an offensive strategy. This isn't a one game issue, this has been going on since the preseason. I know Bratkowski couldn't find his d!*k in the dark, so I don't expect him to make any adjustments. But for pete's sake!!!, will someone on that coaching staff, ummm maybe Hayes for example, speak up and say we CAN'T pass to a TE!!!! For the sake of the season, please run the offense with another O-lineman, and if we are passing I think we have the tools to put in 4 receivers who can catch the ball (unless one of those 4 is Coles). If a guy can't call a game where we utilize a great receiving core, one of the top rushers in the league, and a damn fine QB, then maybe we hope follow suit with Buffalo and Tampa Bay, and fire the freakin OC!

I promise you that Zimmer is going to make adjustments to the loss of Odom and Peko, and he will find a way to get to the QB, because that's the kind of coach he is. Bratkowski is going to keep on doing the same-old same-old because that's the kind of coach he is.

Coffman in my view is a secondary issue. Sure I'd like to see him play, if he's ready. The big issue is what is our coaching staff doing to make adjustments to the injuries suffered at the TE position back in preseason???? So far, a bunch of nothing!

[bwillycuse]

I guess until we see a team with a poor returner, we wont see Coffman. Because the coverage team has done soooo well.

Let me go see how many tackles Coats and Foschi have. 1 for Foschi - He might have got that yesterday on his fumble.

Im ok if Coffman isnt ready. But give us a reason. Not because we are coming up on good returners. The same reason Scott isnt being used. We are playing close games against good defenses.

I guess we wait and see while seeing the ball fly to 86 holding our breath because the wind from our lips are fierce enough to jar the ball loose from the clubs on the ends of Coats arms.

man, Id rather he dropped all the passes Sunday than fumbling like he did. But at least he can block oh wait. At least he runs down the field on special teams.

Did anyone see us get owned by Daniels..wait all TEs own us. And before anyone uses Utechts loss as a reason we arent doing well at TE - he was useless and scared when he was healthy - he never did anything for the Bengals. And wasnt Kelly about to get cut before carson spoke up for him?

Man Id love to have our TE position solidified. Especially since the coaches put so much emphasis on it.

Here is the question though. If Coffman learns to block. Will Brat use him like Kelly was? 1-2 catches a game? Or like Daniels/Gonzales - potential game changers?

Im curious to find out.

[Pidge]

Here is the question though. If Coffman learns to block. Will Brat use him like Kelly was? 1-2 catches a game? Or like Daniels/Gonzales - potential game changers?

Im curious to find out.

I think you're being disingenuous, if I might be so forward, bwilly. You perfectly well know the answer.

[bwillycuse]

Here is the question though. If Coffman learns to block. Will Brat use him like Kelly was? 1-2 catches a game? Or like Daniels/Gonzales - potential game changers?

Im curious to find out.

I think you're being disingenuous, if I might be so forward, bwilly. You perfectly well know the answer.

lol

You are correct. I have this illusion that Brat somewhere inside his head knows what he is doing.

I am envious of other teams TEs.

[Ickey44]

I don't know about Foschi's blocking ability, but as far as ball skills we really don't have anything to complain about regarding him except for the fumble. He's caught everything going his way and held on to the ball except for that one time.

I think if anything, we give Foschi a chance to play ahead of Coats if Coffman isn't ready.

Also, if the reason they're not playing Coffman is because he's not ready for special teams, then that's just retarded. If he's ready to go at TE, but not special teams then just find someone else to cover kicks for crying out loud. That is stupid if it's true.

[Pidge]

I am envious of other teams TEs.

Me too bwilly. If only we had a John Mackey Award winner at that spot...

[walzav29]

Pat and Tim are talking about Chase right now. They said that Kellen Winslow Jr. can't block either. It sounded like they were ready for him to go in.

[HairOnFire]

What's next, pining for Matt Schobel?

How ironic. Isn't that exactly what others are doing when they call for Coffman?

[kingwilly]

Here is a thought, feel free to bash me for playing musical charis with the roster, a la SoP.

Cut Coates, move Jeremi to TE on some plays, and get Pressley in at FB.

Jeremi has better hands than Coates. (a snake has better hands than Coates) and can run in space, and can block.

Pressley can hit, never been a question.

Buh-bye Coates and the dropsies...

[Pidge]

Here is a thought, feel free to bash me for playing musical charis with the roster, a la SoP.

Cut Coates, move Jeremi to TE on some plays, and get Pressley in at FB.

Jeremi has better hands than Coates. (a snake has better hands than Coates) and can run in space, and can block.

Pressley can hit, never been a question.

Buh-bye Coates and the dropsies...

Someone suggested this the other day, might have been your good self then as well. If it got Coats out of the lineup then go for it. Nobody try and defend him anymore, just don't. It's shy-making.

[HairOnFire]

Nobody try and defend him anymore, just don't. It's shy-making.

Sheesh, I have no desire to continue defending Coats. In facts, I was the first guy here who said Coats wasn't a legit NFL player. I said it years ago and I've repeated it often since then. But you guys know how we got here, and you know what options remain, and I'm telling you none of those options include an outright release of the starting TE until Coffman is ready to play major minutes.

So until further developements I'll take me some stone hands over a rookie crash test dummy. And if that sort of weak praise can be called defending Coats...then that's what I'll continue to do.

[TJJackson]

Does anyone else feel like Bernard Scott is the running back reincarnation of Jerome Simpson? They will not develop him for whatever reasons...

You're drifting into the agreen and joepong realm here

There is a big difference between the two

One has been active when not injured this year and has gotten some (albeit limited) playing time

One has been inactive whether healthy or not every single week

Do you know which one is which?