Kick 'em while they're down.

[HairOnFire]

Quitting seems possible as Browns join NFL's worst

Sep. 27, 2009

By Gregg Doyel

CBSSports.com National Columnist

BALTIMORE -- Honest to God, I hope the Cleveland Browns have quit on their coach. I hope they've quit on that smarmy little know-it-all, Eric Mangini, because the alternative is even uglier. Judging from their hopeless 34-3 loss Sunday to Baltimore, a game in which the Browns couldn't run, throw, block or tackle, the Browns have either quit on Mangini -- or they're simply the worst team in the NFL.

And the Kansas City Chiefs still play in the NFL.

But there's no way the Chiefs are as bad as Cleveland, and that's because the Chiefs don't hate their coach. Not like the Browns surely hate Eric Mangini. He's the most dislikeable coach in the NFL, and that's saying something. Bill Belichick coaches in the NFL. But unlike Mangini, Belichick has done something. He's done a whole lot of something. He has three Super Bowl rings that say he's not a jerk -- he's an irascible genius.

Mangini? He's just a jerk.

And players don't like playing for a jerk.

And Sunday was the proof.

Again, I honestly hope for their sake that the Browns quit on Mangini. Seriously. And I despise quitting. Hate it. Don't think it should be done, ever, and that includes now. I do not think the Browns should quit on Mangini, because a professional athlete should have enough pride in himself to play his best, regardless of how big a jackass his coach is.

But Mangini is such an enormous jackass that it skews things.

You can quit on your coach and still have a job in this league if you're good enough to play. But if the Browns haven't quit on Mangini, if they actually were trying on Sunday, then they're beyond help. Then there are about 30 of them who don't belong in the NFL. I could list the 30, but it would be easier to just say: the Cleveland defense, the Cleveland offensive line, both Cleveland quarterbacks, every Cleveland running back, Braylon Edwards, and various and sundry Cleveland special team players.

Those are the options. Either the Browns have quit on Mangini, or those players should be released immediately. The poor Ravens deserved better. They deserved better competition, better effort, from the Browns. Baltimore is really good and doesn't need its opponent to quit to win a game. Baltimore will go to the playoffs this season, and when the last game of the season is played, Baltimore might just be there. And win it. The Ravens are that good, on both sides of the ball and on the sideline, and it showed Sunday in a blowout victory.

But I suspect something else happened Sunday. I suspect the Browns have quit on the coach. And if you follow the Browns at all, or if you don't follow the Browns but you had the misfortune of watching Sunday's game on television, you suspect the same thing.

Mangini doesn't suspect a damn thing, of course. I asked him straight out: Did the players quit on you?

And he said: "No. No. And if at any point I do identify anything like that, they won't be playing in the weeks to come."

Mangini denies the Browns have quit on him -- but the field action says elsewise.

He might want to identify the players responsible on some -- OK, all -- of the Ravens' touchdowns Sunday. The Ravens had rushing touchdowns of 7, 15 and 9 yards in which the ball carrier was never touched. Not once. And you can't explain it away by blaming the breakdown on one specific area of the Cleveland defense, because one play went left. One went right. And the other went straight up the middle.

Willis McGahee had the first two scores, and Ray Rice the third. And it was the pass defense, too. Ravens receiver Derrick Mason scored untouched on a 72-yard pass play, catching the ball at a dead stop at the Cleveland 25, then eluding two nearby defenders who kind of, maybe, tried to stop him. McGahee also had a 34-yard run where he was throwing off would-be tacklers like a man throwing off boys. Or like a motivated NFL player throwing off a bunch of quitters.

So, did they quit? Only they know. I asked three different Cleveland players if the team had quit on Mangini, and all three said no. But they were talking to an outsider. They don't know me, they don't trust me, and I get that. Only one of them even spoke to me in complete sentences, kick returner Joshua Cribbs, and he avoided the danger entirely.

"I'm no mind-reader, but I don't see any quitting in here," Cribbs said. "Give credit where credit is due. That [baltimore] is a really good team. They're going to do some things this year. It's not like we quit. We're a disciplined team, and it starts with the coach. We need discipline, and he gives it to us."

Maybe. Or maybe Mangini has given his players something else. Maybe he has given them every reason to quit on him. Reportedly, almost 10 percent of Mangini's active roster -- five players out of 53 -- are in the process of filing grievances against their horse's ass of a coach who has, for example, fined a player $1,701 for not paying for a $3 bottle of water out of a hotel fridge.

Mangini is a power-drunk bully who derives pleasure from little-man moves like hiding the identity of his starting quarterback this preseason, like hiding the injury of Brett Favre last season in New York, and like fining a player $1,701 for drinking a $3 bottle of water in his hotel room and then forgetting to tell the front desk about it.

Mangini is a smart guy, but he undermines his intelligence by being such an ass. He's the NFL's version of Larry Bowa, one of the smarter baseball men but arrogant enough to think he re-invented the game -- which makes him so dislikeable that he'll never manage again in the big leagues. Mangini doesn't have Bowa's resume as a player, though, so Mangini isn't really another Larry Bowa. He's another Buck Showalter.

And I asked Mangini about that, too. I prefaced my question by noting that he was dealing with human beings in his locker room, and so I wanted to know if maybe, just maybe, his methods weren't working with the particular human beings in his particular locker room.

And he said: "I've dealt with a lot of football players over time, and I feel very comfortable in my ability to deal with people. I demand high expectations of people. That's something I fundamentally believe in."

Fine, but here's something I fundamentally believe: If I'm a player in this league, and I become a free agent, I'm telling my agent to consider offers from 31 teams: Everyone in the league except for any organization dumb enough to employ that fool Eric Mangini as head coach. And if I'm thinking that way, you can believe there are players or agents who think that way.

What I'm saying is this: Cleveland is a train wreck. Cleveland was better off with mediocre Romeo Crennel than it is with malignant Eric Mangini. The Browns' front office and ownership can pretend otherwise, but that's make-believe. That can't be sincere. Only a moron could watch this Cleveland football team, which I've had the misfortune of doing twice in three weeks, and think everything is going to be OK here.

Then again, Cleveland did hire Mangini in the first place. So apparently there are morons in that front office.

And maybe, possibly -- probably -- there are quitters in that locker room.

[gregstephens]

Ala PFT:

Mangini will name a starter Wednesday

Posted by Mike Florio on September 29, 2009 8:58 AM ET

Apparently, Browns coach Eric Mangini has learned a little something from his Week One attempt to prevent anyone from knowing the identity of the starting quarterback.

Everyone knew.

So, this time around, Mangini isn't even going to try. Mangini said Monday that he'll announce the decision to the media on Wednesday.

And the decision apparently won't be driven by which of the guys is the best long-term fit, but by which one of them is more likely to deliver a win against the Bengals on Sunday.

"What I'm looking at it is who I think gives us the best chance to win the next game," Mangini said. "That's the most important thing, and I think both guys did some things on Sunday that were positive, but when you have turnovers, it's hard."

A tipster who has been accurate in the past on matters relating to the Browns tells us that Derek Anderson will get the nod over Brady Quinn. But we're not ready to officially report that Anderson will be the guy.

Get used to the revolving door. Mangini is desperate to turn this thing around, and if it means letting Shaun Rogers take the snaps, Mangini might be willing to give it a try.

[HairOnFire]

Bengals' turnaround has been long time coming

Sep. 29, 2009

By Charley Casserly

The Bengals stand one miracle play away from being 3-0. To those who have not seen them play, that might seem shocking. But the Bengals are a much improved team from last year. My colleague Bill Cowher said to look out for the Bengals on The NFL Today Show last season.

I asked Bengals coach Marvin Lewis what his plans were to turn the team around this year. He said it started at the end of last season. With three games to go, they decided to make it a three-game season. He said they picked out some areas they wanted to improve during that span.

Those aspects were rushing, third-down efficiency on defense, limiting big plays and protecting the ball. This is a good motivational technique by a coach with a losing team at the end of the season. What he did was ignore the record -- the season was already lost -- and give the players something to work on. Lewis said it worked and the Bengals improved in these areas. Cincy won its final three games of last season, giving the Bengals some momentum going in to this year.

Lewis also talked about some other points which dealt with chemistry. He wanted to remove any players who were not going to be a positive influence or who did not give their all last season. He challenged the leaders on the team to sell the program and do not give in to distractions.

Lewis wanted to sign strong-willed free agents. He talked to his players about how to improve the program. Some of those areas were to be more competitive in drills, practice at a higher tempo and have more position-specific drills. He also decided that he would be careful in drills and pull players out of drills if they had groin or hamstring issues. One of the big reasons for their improvement this year is their health. Last year this was team crippled by injuries.

On the field Lewis said he wanted to get back to being a strong running team and a deep passing team. It started at quarterback, where they lost Carson Palmer for a good part of last season. He is back now and though he looked rusty at times, he seemed to hit his stride Sunday in their dramatic fourth-quarter comeback to beat the Steelers.

Running back Cedric Benson is in better shape this season, and the Bengals also added Jeremi Johnson at fullback to improve their power running game. At wide receiver, Chad Ochocinco played subpar last year. He wasn't in shape and never played at the level he was capable. This year he has been a man on a mission. It should be noted that Bengals owner Mike Brown deserves credit for not giving in to Ochocinco's demands to be traded. He stood his ground and did what he thought was best for the team.

Brown should also be given credit for not wavering in his support of Lewis. Brown understood the Bengals' problems last year were caused by injuries, not coaching. The receiving corps has also been helped by Chris Henry having a full offseason and camp.

The addition of Laveranues Coles to replace T.J. Houshmandzadeh has worked out well for the Bengals as well as the emergence of young receiver Andre Caldwell. Ochocinco in shape and the emergence of Caldwell proves this is a much improved passing game. The biggest story on this team during the past two years has been the strides made by the Bengals defense. Part of that improvement has happened because players like Robert Geathers and Antwan Odom are healthy. They have added rookies Michael Johnson and Rey Maualuga, who will help on the pass rush. Pat Sims and Domata Peko have been physical inside at the tackle position. What's impressive about the Bengals' front is that it is physical. Keith Rivers is having a good year and the secondary has been solid. I think Lewis' plan to revitalize the team, starting with their "three-game season" last year and his philosophy on fixing the chemistry has worked. Their offensive line and tight end are going to be areas that need to be addressed, but if their defense stays healthy along with Palmer, the Bengals will be a tough team to play this year.

/>http://www.cbssports.../story/12280118

[ArmyBengal]

Cleveland a train wreck ?? What ?? When did that happen ??

BWAAAAAAA-HAAAAA-HAAAAAA-HAAAAAAA !!!!

[COB]

Ala PFT:

that Derek Anderson will get the nod over Brady Quinn.

The headline in the Columbus Dispatch on Monday was, "Browns appear to be unravelling."

That headline assumed that at some point they were ravelled, which I would dispute. This has all the traits of a trap game. A desperate team, bringing back a player that had been benched and who can now win his job back with a good day and a win, and a team coming off a huge emotional win that has every reason to look past the opponent.

[Sea Ray]

Ala PFT:

that Derek Anderson will get the nod over Brady Quinn.

The headline in the Columbus Dispatch on Monday was, "Browns appear to be unravelling."

That headline assumed that at some point they were ravelled, which I would dispute. This has all the traits of a trap game. A desperate team, bringing back a player that had been benched and who can now win his job back with a good day and a win, and a team coming off a huge emotional win that has every reason to look past the opponent.

I agree. I remember what Derek Anderson did to the Bengals two years ago after getting their fannies kicked by the Steelers a week prior. I hope the Bengals are reminded of this. I think Anderson will complete some passes downfield but they need to pressure him and grap some picks. If they don't force turnovers then I suspect the game will be close. I think the Browns will not look like a quitting team at kickoff. If we pressure them into mistakes early we might be able to get them to quit.

BTW, have you ever heard of a team quitting so soon on a new coach? I think Cleveland may have set some sort of record here. He's in the 1st of a 4 yr deal

[derekshank]

This is NOT a trap game. The Bengals are well aware of the strange things that happen in an interstate rivalry game.

Throw the Ravens debacle out the window. It doesn't matter. It might give some insight, but it is not evidence at all that the Bengals should wipe the floor with them.

That said, if the Bengals prepare well, and go up there and take care of business, it won't come down to the 4th quarter. The Bengals are a better team. But I repeat... this is NOT a trap game. The Bengals will not look past them. The trap game will be Oakland, KC, Detroit... some piss poor team that has no connection to the Bengals. A rivalry game is never a trap though.

[COB]

Quitting seems possible as Browns join NFL's worst

Sep. 27, 2009

By Gregg Doyel

CBSSports.com National Columnist

Does Gregg Doyel write with a word processor or a flamethrower? Holy smokes.

[volcom69]

I worry about special teams first, they have to be able to stop Cribs from getting the big returns. This will be a big test, Sunday the bengals gave up some big kickoffs in the steelers game, and that can not happen this week.

The defense needs to rebound this week, and not let the big plays happen like against the steelers, so i hope they tighten up some, and stop the run also.

I also think this will be a tougher game then some might think, but i will be so happy if we just go in there and blow them out!!!!!!!! PLEASE

[Sea Ray]

Quitting seems possible as Browns join NFL's worst

Sep. 27, 2009

By Gregg Doyel

CBSSports.com National Columnist

Does Gregg Doyel write with a word processor or a flamethrower? Holy smokes.

Any sports fan who lives in Cincinnati is very familiar with this guy. He did sports talk here on WLW and 1530 Homer until getting fired 2 years ago. I don't miss him. I find it odd that he thinks he can call someone else (Mangini) a jackass

[HairOnFire]

Does Gregg Doyel write with a word processor or a flamethrower? Holy smokes.

Any sports fan who lives in Cincinnati is very familiar with this guy. He did sports talk here on WLW and 1530 Homer until getting fired 2 years ago. I don't miss him. I find it odd that he thinks he can call someone else (Mangini) a jackass

Now that you mention it, Doyle does write with the same sort of clueless anger that has almost become a trademark of nearly all Cincy area sportswriters.

And speaking of clueless anger, I may go looking for the Paul Daugherty "Everything is Better in Cleveland" article from a few months ago. Might be a good time for a bump, ehh?

[cincy9275]

Does Gregg Doyel write with a word processor or a flamethrower? Holy smokes.

Any sports fan who lives in Cincinnati is very familiar with this guy. He did sports talk here on WLW and 1530 Homer until getting fired 2 years ago. I don't miss him. I find it odd that he thinks he can call someone else (Mangini) a jackass

Now that you mention it, Doyle does write with the same sort of clueless anger that has almost become a trademark of nearly all Cincy area sportswriters.

And speaking of clueless anger, I may go looking for the Paul Daugherty "Everything is Better in Cleveland" article from a few months ago. Might be a good time for a bump, ehh?

tuesday's edition of the columbus dispatch. well it's just better if you read it.

/>http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2009/09/29/oller_9-29.ART_ART_09-29-09_C1_HVF7FNP.html?sid=101

[Ickey44]

Does Gregg Doyel write with a word processor or a flamethrower? Holy smokes.

Any sports fan who lives in Cincinnati is very familiar with this guy. He did sports talk here on WLW and 1530 Homer until getting fired 2 years ago. I don't miss him. I find it odd that he thinks he can call someone else (Mangini) a jackass

Now that you mention it, Doyle does write with the same sort of clueless anger that has almost become a trademark of nearly all Cincy area sportswriters.

And speaking of clueless anger, I may go looking for the Paul Daugherty "Everything is Better in Cleveland" article from a few months ago. Might be a good time for a bump, ehh?

tuesday's edition of the columbus dispatch. well it's just better if you read it.

/>http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2009/09/29/oller_9-29.ART_ART_09-29-09_C1_HVF7FNP.html?sid=101

Ouch. Harsh.

[Sea Ray]

It's one thing to lose fans but lose them to the Bengals? That's newsworthy.

As an admitted Browns hater I must say I never fully appreciated how much grief it saved me when the Browns moved to Baltimore. Can you imagine what we would have had to put up with if the Ravens had that sort of success by staying in Cleveland? Those Browns fans would have been awfully hard to live with.

I recall some Browns fans at the time spinning that it was worth 3 yrs w/o football in order to get rid of the worst owner in football. Well what were the chances that they'd do even worse with Lerner? Hiring Mangini is up there with the worst hires ever

[NYBengalfan]

Ala PFT:

that Derek Anderson will get the nod over Brady Quinn.

The headline in the Columbus Dispatch on Monday was, "Browns appear to be unravelling."

That headline assumed that at some point they were ravelled, which I would dispute. This has all the traits of a trap game. A desperate team, bringing back a player that had been benched and who can now win his job back with a good day and a win, and a team coming off a huge emotional win that has every reason to look past the opponent.

Good point Central. I thought the same at first. But then I look back at the Broncos game, our Bengals could have packed it in, that is a crushing way to start the season, but they came back strong and beat two very tough teams. Then I look at our offseason moves and the draft. Totally different team from 2007 when we went in overconfident and lost (51-45). Much stronger defense than then. We have a young team, but that comeback showed me that they are wise beyond their years and have a lot of heart. Lets Not forget, Carson is healthy, o line... not the best but unified and working as one, really gettin the job done protecting our franchise QB.... btw Chad is happy and having fun again, seems to have stepped up not only as a team player so far but as a leader somewhat. The scoreboard will reflect on who the better team is. And we all know who that is... Bengals 30 Browns 10

WHO DEY

[ArmyBengal]

Tuesday's edition of the columbus dispatch. well it's just better if you read it.

/>http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2009/09/29/oller_9-29.ART_ART_09-29-09_C1_HVF7FNP.html?sid=101

Well, how many times have we said that it would be interesting to see how the fans of a team would react if they ever had to go through what Bengals fans went through in the 90's ?? Well, there you have it. It didn't even take that long.

While I get the point he's trying to make, I call BS. I mean could any of you here really consider becoming a Browns fan because the Bengals sucked ?? All I can say is, not on the coldest day in hell would that EVER happen with me. My team is my team, good, bad,or whatever comes...

Sucker ?? Whatever, but I know where I stand and I won't go back on a part of who I am...

[gregstephens]

Tuesday's edition of the columbus dispatch. well it's just better if you read it.

/>http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2009/09/29/oller_9-29.ART_ART_09-29-09_C1_HVF7FNP.html?sid=101

Well, how many times have we said that it would be interesting to see how the fans of a team would react if they ever had to go through what Bengals fans went through in the 90's ?? Well, there you have it. It didn't even take that long.

While I get the point he's trying to make, I call BS. I mean could any of you here really consider becoming a Browns fan because the Bengals sucked ?? All I can say is, not on the coldest day in hell would that EVER happen with me. My team is my team, good, bad,or whatever comes...

Sucker ?? Whatever, but I know where I stand and I won't go back on a part of who I am...

Agreed. I will never consider NOT being a Bengals fan. But, even if anyone were to consider that, certainly not a division rival. Especially not the Browns or Steelers. Ok, I get the desperation jump-off, probably temporary and just the frustration talking, but NEVER one of those two teams.

I bet that guy is getting bashed to death in Cleveland.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Tuesday's edition of the columbus dispatch. well it's just better if you read it.

/>http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2009/09/29/oller_9-29.ART_ART_09-29-09_C1_HVF7FNP.html?sid=101

Well, how many times have we said that it would be interesting to see how the fans of a team would react if they ever had to go through what Bengals fans went through in the 90's ?? Well, there you have it. It didn't even take that long.

While I get the point he's trying to make, I call BS. I mean could any of you here really consider becoming a Browns fan because the Bengals sucked ?? All I can say is, not on the coldest day in hell would that EVER happen with me. My team is my team, good, bad,or whatever comes...

Sucker ?? Whatever, but I know where I stand and I won't go back on a part of who I am...

This just goes to prove that the Bengals have some really hardy fans. I told my wife how the Stealers sites are still going ballistic after a two game losing streak, it would be interesting to see how well they support a team that has multiple game losing streaks for the better part of a decade.

All I can say is:

WHO-DEY

[cincy9275]

Tuesday's edition of the columbus dispatch. well it's just better if you read it.

/>http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2009/09/29/oller_9-29.ART_ART_09-29-09_C1_HVF7FNP.html?sid=101

Well, how many times have we said that it would be interesting to see how the fans of a team would react if they ever had to go through what Bengals fans went through in the 90's ?? Well, there you have it. It didn't even take that long.

While I get the point he's trying to make, I call BS. I mean could any of you here really consider becoming a Browns fan because the Bengals sucked ?? All I can say is, not on the coldest day in hell would that EVER happen with me. My team is my team, good, bad,or whatever comes...

Sucker ?? Whatever, but I know where I stand and I won't go back on a part of who I am...

i agree Army, i would never change my team. the article is interesting in the point that the younger generation of football fans in ohio are becoming bengals fans especially here in columbus. which as much as i hate it, has more browns fans. as for fans changing teams, i don't want them, i can't stand a wagon rider and if you could not support us when we were down. i don't want your support now!

as for the game the last time it look like a sure ass kicking, the clowns put up 51 points on us. it is very wierd how similar the situation is. we were coming off a hard fought games against the ravens, the clowns just had their asses handed to them by the steelers. their qb situation was same as it is now instead of quinn it was frye and anderson. they where the joke of the league, could not do anything on offense or defense. then they beat us. so we better no go there over looking this team, we have to put it on them early and not stop!