Draft Conversation

[Pidge]

Ok it's bye week, so I wanted to take a little closer look at where we are:

Quarterback

Carson isn't going anywhere and O'Sullivan is here through next year, but little bro is an exclusive rights free agent after this year. Honestly, I would like to see them draft a QB at some point (round 5 or later) they feel they can take some time developing behind Carson. They don't have a QB on the practice squad, so I would prefer going to the draft on this one and upgrade Jordan's spot.

Maybe somebody like Stull from Pitt. He'd be a late rnd pick, probably later than the 5th. Maybe Hiller is there in the 5th. There are a few QBs who would make long-term projects but projects with some promise and not just cross your finger types.

Running Back

Benson and Leonard are here through next year, but I could see them extending Benson sooner rather than later, maybe adding a couple more years on his current deal. Scott isn't going anywhere and they still have James Johnson on the practice squad. With that thought in mind, I don't really think they will go RB early, if at all in the draft. Maybe the following year it will be a greater need.

I really like our RB situation. If they can extend Bensone for another yr or maybe two then great. other than that, unless a CJ Spiller falls into out laps in the second or something, then no need imo.

Wide Receiver

This spot could go a bunch of different ways. I'll start by saying when Chatman comes off of IR, he needs to go. I mean just move on already. Henry will be a free agent after this year and both Chad and Coles will be going on 32. If they don't bring Henry back, they better make d*mn sure Simpson is ready to go, but I really don't see that being the case. Caldwell is doing great, we have Cosby that gets no playing time outside of returns and we have Purify on the practice roster. If Henry is back, I really don't see us drafting a WR at all, because where would they go ?? There are only so many spots and unless something happens to Chad or Coles, there's no playing time. It's not that I wouldn't want another WR, but just don't see it with the way they are set up right now.

No WR. We're stocked right now, even if Henry doesn't re-sign. Caldwell will have pretty much cemented his strating place by season's end, imo. Maybe we bring in another couple of undrafted rookies to look at in camp after the draft.

Tight End

Currently a HUGE need for this team and something that would make this offense lethal. I'm not a fan of either Coats or Foshci long term with Coats a RFA after this year. Kelly may not return, as he's a free agent after this year as well and will be 33. Utecht is not someone I'm counting on at all, as I don't think he will come back after that last injury and then we have Coffman. We have Darius Hill on the practice squad and Sherry on IR, but this has to be a spot they will be looking at early in the draft (rounds 1-3) and any of those rounds wouldn't surprise me or upset me.

I'm hoping Gresham will fall to the 2nd (long shot I know. Maybe Dickson from Oregon or Peek from Bama in the 3rd or 4th,

O-line

I was going to do each position, but I'll lump them all in together. The guard position should be the priority of the line looking at the draft. I think Whitworth stays at the LT spot and then you are looking at a 33 year old Bobbie Williams who's a free agent after this season. You also have Kooistra and Livings who are FA and RFA. This is also a spot I see as one that will be looked at early in the draft (rounds 2-3). I'm pretty pleased with the OT position and the depth there, but feel getting Roland resigned is a priority, as he's a RFA after this season. Cook is also another priority for this line and maybe the most important part of getting extensions taken care of as he's a RFA after this season as well. Shirley and Santucci are a complete mystery and unknown factors.

Largely agree with you. If we are in late first when we pick we'd be in a great position to grab a devastating G or a good OT who could play guard. If they go D then you'd still be able to get a damn good G in the 2nd. Complimented by a bit of a project lineman in the later rounds I think we go O-line with one of the first two picks.

D-line

I don't know exactly what to think about Geathers and then Odom will be back, but both are question marks at this time. Enough to spend a high draft pick at the position ?? I don't think so, but it really wouldn't surprise me either. I think Michael Johnson will continue to improve and you can already see the pressure he puts on the QB. Fanene is here for another year, but I don't see them doing much with him until they have to and Rucker is a FA after this season. I really wish he could stay healthy, because when he is, he does very well. Peko and Sims are going anywhere, but Tank is up after this season. If they bring Tank back, I don't know they go DT at all and don't think they will be in position to take one of the dominant DT's anyway.

Spot on. If we pick later in the first, out of the top 20 say then getting a DT who can become a real force, at least straight away, is unlikely. A good DE might still very well be on the board though...

LineBackers

Both Johnson and Jeanty are FA's after this season and if the thought is moving Rey to the middle, this also has to be a position taken to add the final piece to the LB corps. I really want to see Johnson brought back and Jeanty does provide nice depth being strong against the run. In the middle, Dhani still has another year, but will be 32 and has his moments. His leadership might be the best thing he brings to the table next season and will be needed for depth with only Hodge left who will be a FA after this season as well. I really would love to see a fast OLB who can provide that pass rush from the outside as well as being able to drop into coverage.

I see this yr as Dhani's last yr as a starter. Great leadership and if he provides depth then great but he is far far too slow now to be considered a starter. He'll only be slower, if that's possible, next season. LB must be addressed. Worst case scenario is we re-sign Johnson and Jeanty and rotate them at OLB while moving Rey back into the middle.

Secondary

Extend JJoe now and yeah, go ahead and start looking at Hall while they are at it even though we have him for 2 more seasons after this one. Trent is coming on, so he might keep us from looking for the 3rd cornerback and they also have Rico Murray and Pope on the practice squad. I'm not advocating the practice squad guys as starters, simply acknowledging their presence. David Jones is a RFA after this season as well. Does Roy come back for next year at safety and does it really matter ?? I want to see him back because I think he brings an attitude with him, but he has to get healthy. I like Crocker and Ndukwe, but there has to be improvements out there. I look at the safety position as I do the TE position for the offense in that I can see a dominant safety being a HUGE difference for this defense.

Safety is probably the best bet to be addressed on the defensive side in the draft for me. Looking at the FA situation, not a lot out there for us to improve with so I think they go safety in the draft. I'm hoping for an Ed Reed like drop for Mays in the first. If not Reshad Jones and maybe Major Wright have the size and speed, maybe one of them is still there in the 2nd.

Special Teams

Huber is great and I'm not sure Shayne will be back or not. I'm finally to the point I feel the team may decide to go in another direction, but I can't say as I would be either for it or against it.

There are also a ton of other considerations, with other teams free agents that will change this up, but that is what I'm looking at for now.

If it gets us a kicker as good as Huber is a punter then I'd happily burn a 5th rnd pick on a K, s**t, go 4th rnd if you're worried he'd be taken before then. Automatic 3 points are a wonderful thing in football.

Great post Army.

[Pidge]

Ooooh, hey hands up here, Miami bias but Dedrick Epps as a TE available in the later rnds is one I'd go for it we didn't address it early on in the draft. 6-4, 260 lbs and quick enough. Good, soft hands to receive and most importantly a very very solid blocker. I know this because we have the single worst tackle division 1 football in Matt Pipho and Epps is always in as an extra blocker on long downs.

[SupaBran]

Good posting boys...

Quarterback

Your right, Carson isn't going anywhere but I like our backup situation. O'Sully is a serviceable veteran and Basement Jordan is a perfect project to me. We're screwed if Carson goes down no matter who our backups are. And if, Gawd forbid, Carson does get hurt, who better to take over for him than his clone? I gotta admit I don't no anything about Stull and I don't know much about Hiller either. He's from Clemson right?

Running Back

I agree with both of you guys, I think running back is a very solid position for us. With Ced only having 2 years left, he either needs to be extended another 2 or 3 years and Bernard Scott needs to adjust a little bit but that will come with more playing time and he's the perfect compliment to Ced da Pred! Then we round it off with a great all around back in Brian Leonard who can do it all, and I didn't like that he was inactive vs. the Bears. I think he does too much for us to be benched!

Wide Receiver

This is another position like RB that in a year or two might be a position of need but not this year, and please no more projects late that never make the team and are just wasted draft picks!

Tight End

Jermaine Gresham, nuff said! . Brandon Pettigrew went to the Lions at #20 last year, and people said Gresham would have gone before him, had he declared like he should've.

O-Line

I think we have our bookend tackles and stud center for years to come in Whit and Andre Smith and Kyle Cook. Man is that a sweet, huge, man mauling line so far! Kyle Cook is a huge priority!!! Roland should be a priority and would team with Anthony Collins as great depth along with Jonathon Luigs as the backup center. Mathis and Livings should be brought back but not as starters. Bobbie was great for us but this line had a youth movement and its time to upgrade at both guard spots. We should draft 2 guards in rounds 1 thru 4, IMO.

D-Line

I agree with both of you, I don't think the impact DT's will be there but impact DE's might be there but even with Geathers and Odom being question marks, I don't think you can burn another high draft pick on this position. MJ will learn and get stronger and like you guys said, you can already see the pressure he can bring. Frostee the snowman, when healthy, shows that he deserved to be that 3rd round pick people said we reached on. Fanene is a great versatile guy as well. Peko and Sims are studs and Tank is a good leader but I just don't see his impact. We brought him in to rush the passer and get sacks, and to my knowledge he doesn't have any. This spot needs an upgrade but I don't know how that's going to happen unless someone catastrophically drops. Are there any good options at all in free agency?

Linebackers

Rey and Rivers are studs and our starters at ROLB and MLB for the next 8 years at least. I love me some Dhani and he is a great leader but father time has bitch-slapped his athletic ability! If you want to keep him and let him play out his last year as a leader and a backup where he can play all three positions, I'm cool with that but he's not a starter anymore and Rey def. belongs back in the middle. Dhani completely surpassed any expectations that I had when we signed him, so it's nothing but positive from my boy Mr. Jones! Brandon Johnson, Jeanty, and even Abdul Hodge are great backups and terrific depth but only Jeanty can play strong side and I don't think he's a starter anymore either so this spot def. needs an upgrade.

Secondary

I def. agree with both of you guys here. Leon and JJoe are our studs and should be here for many more years together. Morgan Trent has solidified our nickel corner position, allowing Crocker to go back to his roaming, hard hitting difference maker he was last year. I love Roy and you're right, he brings a presence and an attitude with him...when he's not hurt. He needs to get healthy and finish the season strong and healthy. Duke Nukem is a great backup. I would love to upgrade here, but I don't see it happening unless, like mentioned, Mays drops. Which I don't think he will, people will start comparing him to the great Sean Taylor.

Kicker

I agree with both of you guys. If we can draft a kicker like Huber, I'll easily burn a 4th or 5th on one. I won't miss Shayne. He's been good and reliable for us, but I lost a lot of respect for him in the off-season when he got mad we franchised him. News flash, you are a kicker and should just be happy to have a job, let alone the easiest job on the team which you are making like 2 mil for. I say we Vanderjagt his ass and release him and then a year later he'll be begging for a job.

[Kazkal]

Ok it's bye week, so I wanted to take a little closer look at where we are:

Quarterback

I dunno I think they'll go with the Make Carson happy route and atleast use min tag on Jordan...If someone wants him let him walk and use the 5th or 6th? on a QB

Running Back

Benson and Leonard are here through next year, but I could see them extending Benson sooner rather than later, maybe adding a couple more years on his current deal. \

I Agree I'd like to see them Reward Benson for his play they should offer him 3 year extension with respectable per year...Just make sure last year is cut friendly incase age catches up...but Benson doesn't have alot ware and tear on his body from sitting for the bears so much

Wide Receiver

Depends on Henry if we resign him then I wouldn't draft one sooner then the 7th..if we don't and simpson isn't his replacement then we need look for replacement mid draft..

Tight End

Some good Tight ends in Free agency would prefer to address it then

Owen Daniels,Tony Scheffler,Anthony Fasano Bo Scaife Matt Spaeth Ben Watson i'm sure few will be tagged but couple of them should hit the market..

O-line

Draft a Right Guard in the top half of the draft...Keep developing shirly as backup and maybe shock us and start some day...

We need resign our Oline though High Priority Kyle Cook (LOCK HIM UP) Evan Mathis(I hope they extend him hes been a great LG) Dennis Rolland (Would love to be able get extension but he may wanna go somewhere else where he has chance to walk so atleast give him a 2nd round tender for next year..

D-line

-I think Dline warrents a 1st-4th round selection following reasons (minus them feeling rusty is answer and resign him)

-Odom Injured 2 years in a row but good production

-Geathers Hasn't produced a good year since 2006...We need someone who can come in with MJ on passing downs IMO

-Do we know Michael Johnsons long term position is Defensive End? Or will they move him to Linebacker or purely Hybrid roll? Atm they have him all over the field

LineBackers

I'd like to See us Resign Brandon Johnson and keep him as SLB he's fast to get pressure & great in coverage and more likely will only sign somewhere with chance of starting...Maybe they plan to let Johnson be the Boulaware Marvin has always wanted? Is Jeanty still RFA? I'd like to atleast keep him around for Depth but if we don't resign Brandon IMO we gotta draft one high

Secondary

Extend JJoe now and yeah, go ahead and start looking at Hall while they are at it even though we have him for 2 more seasons after this one.

Yup take a book out of the Eagles handbook & Resign them young...Hall will be alot cheaper with 2 years left in his cntract vs Looking at Free agency in the coming season...Paying 25-33 Million sure beats 40+

Min Tag David Jones...Resign Roy if it isn't a huge deal I'd still look at Safety but really depends how they feel about Ndukwe ...But we do need a young talent behind crocker just encase...Or if some how Berry or Mays falls in to our laps Btw I thought pope couldn;t be on the PS and Rico was signed by another team(Chargers?)

defense.

Special Teams

Hopefully if they replace Shayne it''s with the top kicker in the draft,Maybe they should tag him again but Yank it if the right kicker is available?

PS,I really like going in to the next years draft the way we are if we can get few key extensons...But looks like it could be like this year where we don't have target one position but just snag the best players available of Several...

[Kazkal]

I really like our RB situation. If they can extend Bensone for another yr or maybe two then great. other than that, unless a CJ Spiller falls into out laps in the second or something, then no need imo.

He's leading the league in rushing & only will have one year left after this season... at minimum he'll want 3 year extension which still won't be aslong as you can drop him if production isn't there...Yes he's 26 but he really hasn't started running until this year so I could seem him lasting until he's 30

Mathis and Livings should be brought back but not as starters. Bobbie was great for us but this line had a youth movement and its time to upgrade at both guard spots. We should draft 2 guards in rounds 1 thru 4, IMO.

Why not bring Evan Mathis back as a starter? He's only 27 He'll be affordable and he's played Great this year as a starter...IMO he should be high on the list of players that we should keep AS a Starter In 7 Games he's given up one Sack hasn't had a problem with flags & along with Whitworth is a reason why we're so successful at running to ball to the left side... Resign Evan then draft a single Right guard rnds 1-4...then maybe take depth pick in the 2nd half

see this yr as Dhani's last yr as a starter. Great leadership and if he provides depth then great but he is far far too slow now to be considered a starter. He'll only be slower, if that's possible, next season. LB must be addressed. Worst case scenario is we re-sign Johnson and Jeanty and rotate them at OLB while moving Rey back into the middle.

I love Dhani I truly do he's been one of my favorite players in the NFL since he was a eagle...But he needs to be on the bench next year he makes a few smart plays but I see more of him Sucking wind & Being torched just because he's slowing down.

[Pidge]

Good posting boys...

Quarterback

Your right, Carson isn't going anywhere but I like our backup situation. O'Sully is a serviceable veteran and Basement Jordan is a perfect project to me. We're screwed if Carson goes down no matter who our backups are. And if, Gawd forbid, Carson does get hurt, who better to take over for him than his clone? I gotta admit I don't no anything about Stull and I don't know much about Hiller either. He's from Clemson right?

Hiller plays for W. Mich. Big bastard with a nice arm. Nowhere near the finished project but way more upside than a McCoy for example who won't improve much, imo. Can be inaccurate and right now not all the throws are there but very strong arm and can read the field reasonably well.

Running Back

I agree with both of you guys, I think running back is a very solid position for us. With Ced only having 2 years left, he either needs to be extended another 2 or 3 years and Bernard Scott needs to adjust a little bit but that will come with more playing time and he's the perfect compliment to Ced da Pred! Then we round it off with a great all around back in Brian Leonard who can do it all, and I didn't like that he was inactive vs. the Bears. I think he does too much for us to be benched!

Is Benson really only 26? Wow. So yeah, like I said, see if we extend him for a couple of years and that'll take him up to 29 which is when we'll be able to kick his tyres and see how much rubber is left on them.

O-Line

I think we have our bookend tackles and stud center for years to come in Whit and Andre Smith and Kyle Cook. Man is that a sweet, huge, man mauling line so far! Kyle Cook is a huge priority!!! Roland should be a priority and would team with Anthony Collins as great depth along with Jonathon Luigs as the backup center. Mathis and Livings should be brought back but not as starters. Bobbie was great for us but this line had a youth movement and its time to upgrade at both guard spots. We should draft 2 guards in rounds 1 thru 4, IMO.

Re-signings are the key here. We seem to have a lot of depth, maybe no real stand out guys, except for Cook, but solid group all round. If there is a stud G or T there in the first or second then a safe bet and only give Palmer more protection.

Linebackers

Rey and Rivers are studs and our starters at ROLB and MLB for the next 8 years at least. I love me some Dhani and he is a great leader but father time has bitch-slapped his athletic ability! If you want to keep him and let him play out his last year as a leader and a backup where he can play all three positions, I'm cool with that but he's not a starter anymore and Rey def. belongs back in the middle. Dhani completely surpassed any expectations that I had when we signed him, so it's nothing but positive from my boy Mr. Jones! Brandon Johnson, Jeanty, and even Abdul Hodge are great backups and terrific depth but only Jeanty can play strong side and I don't think he's a starter anymore either so this spot def. needs an upgrade.

If Spikes, although lightening rarely strikes twice, falls and he's there in the first when we pick I go for him without thinking. Otherwise, move Rey back into the middle and go for a nice quick OLB in the 2nd or 3rd.

Secondary

I def. agree with both of you guys here. Leon and JJoe are our studs and should be here for many more years together. Morgan Trent has solidified our nickel corner position, allowing Crocker to go back to his roaming, hard hitting difference maker he was last year. I love Roy and you're right, he brings a presence and an attitude with him...when he's not hurt. He needs to get healthy and finish the season strong and healthy. Duke Nukem is a great backup. I would love to upgrade here, but I don't see it happening unless, like mentioned, Mays drops. Which I don't think he will, people will start comparing him to the great Sean Taylor.

A couple of nice DBs, who could play CB, S and/or nickel, who could be there on the second day is Brandon Brinkley from Houston and Brian Jackson from Oklahoma. Both 6'+ and have 4.4 40 speed.

[Pidge]

Tight End

Some good Tight ends in Free agency would prefer to address it then

Owen Daniels,Tony Scheffler,Anthony Fasano Bo Scaife Matt Spaeth Ben Watson i'm sure few will be tagged but couple of them should hit the market..

I think this might be the one who gets onto the market who I'd like. In fact, I'd love if we got him. Really undervalued TE. Size and speed and a good blocker. Pretty young too.

[Kazkal]

I'd have to go with Anthony Fasano being a favorite well not alot numbers the Coaches seemed to love him coming out and had he been available with our following pick I think could been a bengal.

[Pidge]

He is painfully painfully slow and has suspect hands at times. So yeah, we probably end up with him.

[SupaBran]

Tight End

Some good Tight ends in Free agency would prefer to address it then

Owen Daniels,Tony Scheffler,Anthony Fasano Bo Scaife Matt Spaeth Ben Watson i'm sure few will be tagged but couple of them should hit the market..

I think this might be the one who gets onto the market who I'd like. In fact, I'd love if we got him. Really undervalued TE. Size and speed and a good blocker. Pretty young too.

I agree. I think, nay, I know the Texans won't let Owen Daniels get away. I will pass on Fasano as well! I would think Scaife would be available too, even though he was franchised this year. Spaeth blows, there's nothing special about him, I think JP Foschi is better than him. A guy I want a look at is Ben Watson. He'll be available. They can't pay him, not that he wants much, but they have Brady and Wilfork on the last years and I was hearing he might've been a casualty right before cutdown day, but he wasn't.

[Pidge]

Tight End

Some good Tight ends in Free agency would prefer to address it then

Owen Daniels,Tony Scheffler,Anthony Fasano Bo Scaife Matt Spaeth Ben Watson i'm sure few will be tagged but couple of them should hit the market..

I think this might be the one who gets onto the market who I'd like. In fact, I'd love if we got him. Really undervalued TE. Size and speed and a good blocker. Pretty young too.

I agree. I think, nay, I know the Texans won't let Owen Daniels get away. I will pass on Fasano as well! I would think Scaife would be available too, even though he was franchised this year. Spaeth blows, there's nothing special about him, I think JP Foschi is better than him. A guy I want a look at is Ben Watson. He'll be available. They can't pay him, not that he wants much, but they have Brady and Wilfork on the last years and I was hearing he might've been a casualty right before cutdown day, but he wasn't.

Missed him! I'd prefer Scheffler I think but damn, I'd be happy with Watson if we managed to get him. That's purely from a receiving perspective, and he also hustles his tail off out there - I remember one play a few yrs back when he ran down a CB from literally the other side of the field and stopped him from scoring a TD off of a pick. How is his blocking? Gotta be pretty decent right?

[SupaBran]

You actually just convinced me we probably won't go after him. I honestly don't know if he's a good blocker or not, but I'm assuming he's not. They run a spread offense and he's not counted on to block much in the mostly passing offense of the Pats. I can't see us bringing in a guy known as a receiving tight end with not much tape to show the coaches his blocking, IMO. But then again they did bring that country singin douche from Indy!

[BlainThePain]

I'd have to go with Anthony Fasano being a favorite well not alot numbers the Coaches seemed to love him coming out and had he been available with our following pick I think could been a bengal.

I don't think we'd have drafted him. I remember a quote by Alexander that they had Whitworth rated as a first round prospect, so I seriously doubt they had Fasano rated higher than him.

[Pidge]

He is a good blocker though so he'll be looked at I'm sure.

[BlainThePain]

Mathis and Livings should be brought back but not as starters. Bobbie was great for us but this line had a youth movement and its time to upgrade at both guard spots. We should draft 2 guards in rounds 1 thru 4, IMO.

I think people have a bias against Mathis because he bounced around on some practice squads, but he has been playing great football for us. He was a third round pick, which is high for a guard, so you know the athleticism is there. It might have taken him a while to develop his career, but now he is a quality guard and I think he'll only get better these next couple of seasons. Look at how much better Whitworth has looked with a quality guard next to him. Plus, look at James Harrison. He bounced around on a couple different practice squads, now look at him.

If we resign Roland, Cook, and Livings, plus draft a right guard early to replace Bobbie, we will have one of the youngest, most-talented, and deepest lines in all of the NFL. We would have four tackles that I would be comfortable in seeing start in Whit, Smith, Collins, and Roland. We would be deep at guard with Evans, a rookie, Livings (who may not be the greatest starter, but I feel he is one the best back-up guards in the NFL), and Shirley (who I think will develop into an absolute mauler in another couple season). Plus Cook at center with Luigs backing him up. Has anybody ever remember an o-line situation that looked this good for the Bengals? I mean, that '05 line was great, but it lacked the depth that we have now.

[Pidge]

Mathis and Livings should be brought back but not as starters. Bobbie was great for us but this line had a youth movement and its time to upgrade at both guard spots. We should draft 2 guards in rounds 1 thru 4, IMO.

I think people have a bias against Mathis because he bounced around on some practice squads, but he has been playing great football for us. He was a third round pick, which is high for a guard, so you know the athleticism is there. It might have taken him a while to develop his career, but now he is a quality guard and I think he'll only get better these next couple of seasons. Look at how much better Whitworth has looked with a quality guard next to him. Plus, look at James Harrison. He bounced around on a couple different practice squads, now look at him.

If we resign Roland, Cook, and Livings, plus draft a right guard early to replace Bobbie, we will have one of the youngest, most-talented, and deepest lines in all of the NFL. We would have four tackles that I would be comfortable in seeing start in Whit, Smith, Collins, and Roland. We would be deep at guard with Evans, a rookie, Livings (who may not be the greatest starter, but I feel he is one the best back-up guards in the NFL), and Shirley (who I think will develop into an absolute mauler in another couple season). Plus Cook at center with Luigs backing him up. Has anybody ever remember an o-line situation that looked this good for the Bengals? I mean, that '05 line was great, but it lacked the depth that we have now.

I agree with this. It's not like they're having to come up with tricks or overloads to keep the rush from getting to Carson. It's normally man on man and they're taking of business. I'd like to to take an outstanding guard or a good tackle who can play G and add depth at the OT position as always drafting linemen is a philosophy that makes a great deal of sense.

But the most important thing they can do to the O-line in the draft is re-signing people before the draft. That will leave us in a great position in April.

[BlainThePain]

Mathis and Livings should be brought back but not as starters. Bobbie was great for us but this line had a youth movement and its time to upgrade at both guard spots. We should draft 2 guards in rounds 1 thru 4, IMO.

I think people have a bias against Mathis because he bounced around on some practice squads, but he has been playing great football for us. He was a third round pick, which is high for a guard, so you know the athleticism is there. It might have taken him a while to develop his career, but now he is a quality guard and I think he'll only get better these next couple of seasons. Look at how much better Whitworth has looked with a quality guard next to him. Plus, look at James Harrison. He bounced around on a couple different practice squads, now look at him.

If we resign Roland, Cook, and Livings, plus draft a right guard early to replace Bobbie, we will have one of the youngest, most-talented, and deepest lines in all of the NFL. We would have four tackles that I would be comfortable in seeing start in Whit, Smith, Collins, and Roland. We would be deep at guard with Evans, a rookie, Livings (who may not be the greatest starter, but I feel he is one the best back-up guards in the NFL), and Shirley (who I think will develop into an absolute mauler in another couple season). Plus Cook at center with Luigs backing him up. Has anybody ever remember an o-line situation that looked this good for the Bengals? I mean, that '05 line was great, but it lacked the depth that we have now.

I agree with this. It's not like they're having to come up with tricks or overloads to keep the rush from getting to Carson. It's normally man on man and they're taking of business. I'd like to to take an outstanding guard or a good tackle who can play G and add depth at the OT position as always drafting linemen is a philosophy that makes a great deal of sense.

But the most important thing they can do to the O-line in the draft is re-signing people before the draft. That will leave us in a great position in April.

Another thing I like about this line, if somebody gets hurt we don't have to shift our line around. In the past, if the left tackle got hurt, Steinbach or Whitworth would shift to left tackle and you would have two positions out of place on the o-line. Now we have competent back-ups in Collins and Roland that can step right up and play good football.

[Pidge]

Very very true. Maybe we have no stand out guys, Cook excepted going up against some of the best NTs in the entire league 6 times a yr in our division foes alone. However, and this is not to say they are at that level yet, let's give them an entire season before we properly judge them but are the NE linemen household names, the fact that many of us could name them aside? Hardly. Fantastic unit though who know each others' games and help keep Brady upright very well.

[ArmyBengal]

While I agree that having depth on the o-line is huge for us, I can't see us drafting two o-line spots in the first 4 rounds. The only way I could see that happening is if they address some of their needs through FA, allowing us to do that. The question then becomes, what position would become more of a priority in the draft if we in fact shored up another position thought to be a greater priority through free agency.

For example, most would agree a tight end is a big priority right now, but what if we were to happen to get one in free agency that frees up that position in the draft ?? Is another guard or tackle a bigger priority than say more d-line help ?? Maybe taking a QB to develop sooner ?? I mean you could take your pick of position, but you get my point. There are secondary priorties that could move up before taking more depth at another position based on expiring contracts or age at the position.

As much as some may disagree I also see WR in that particular scenario...

[SupaBran]

First of all, I'm not saying Mathis is garbage. I just think we could upgrade. You are all saying Livings is a backup and Mathis is a starter but if you remember that long ago, Nate Livings won the starting job in the camps and preseason. I think we have our bookend tackles in Whit and Andre and the leader of the line in Cook. And I would be perfectly happy with those three plus a 2nd round RG and Mathis manning down the LG.

Hey Army, what would you choose in the first four rounds? It doesn't have to be in order just the four positions you would like to see addressed.

[Pidge]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyhL2ZxFs7o

Hmmm, doesn't look that good to me. Maybe because this is more prevalent in rugby and I know someone who partially lost vision in one eye when gouged I don't tend to give the benefit of the doubt. It's pretty hard to accidentally root around someone's eyes with your fingers. Color me not impressed anymore.

[BlainThePain]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyhL2ZxFs7o

Hmmm, doesn't look that good to me. Maybe because this is more prevalent in rugby and I know someone who partially lost vision in one eye when gouged I don't tend to give the benefit of the doubt. It's pretty hard to accidentally root around someone's eyes with your fingers. Color me not impressed anymore.

Yeah, that is really dirty. I think its a lot worse than what Blount did to get suspended for season.

[Pidge]

I agree. In fact, in rugby, fisticuffs is usually dealt with by the refs. If no cards are given out at game time then the review panel usually dishes out a one or two game suspension depending on the severity of the fight. It's normally sorted out by the ref telling them to stop acting like children.

Gouging though, regardless of severity of injury, is an automatic 6 month ban at a minimum. It can be as high as one calender yr.

That kind of thing is not heat of the moment or stupidity. It is cold, calculating and having been on the receiving end a couple of times at the bottom of a pile unable to move, absolutely f**king terrifying. It's why I whole-heartedly supported Whit's attempts to rearrange some filthy gouger's face last season.

[SupaBran]

Whoa...I am a Gator fan, so I'm here to defend my boy Brandon. Brandon Spikes is the perfect leader and tone setter for a great defense. I've watch him every game for all 4 years he's played for Florida and he has never done anything dirty or cheap. This is the first I've heard anybody thinking he was trying to eye gouge him. Which I have to admit if you just see that video and don't know anything about Spikes I could see how you would think that. Brandon has never done anything cheap or dirty in his career so he def. gets the benefit of the doubt with me.

It's a little redikulus for you 2 to say that you're not impressed with him anymore b/c of this. Almost every football player does dirty stuff at the bottom of the pile. I would love to see my boy Spikes in Stripes scooping one of Whines Hard's eyeballs out!

[Pidge]

Trying to mess with someone's sight is too far for me personally. I feel the same about any player in either sport. I'm not saying he should be sent out into the wilderness etc but that's cold. That's not aggressive or tough or whatever. It's a bulls**t move. So, for me, despite him being a great player, I'll pass thanks.

That tubby bastard Wilpoke is another one.