Chris Henry #2 WR?

[Sea Ray]

Oh and one more thing. Did everyoone notice that Henry did assist in tackling the Colts player after Jordan's INT?

[agreen_112]

"Tackle him, Slim" --- Bratkowski

Yep. People even started riding the player formerly known as Chad Dingdong for that, even before he turned bat s**t insane a while back. Slim stands no chance, zero, nadda, if he keeps on pulling that stuff.

I loved the way Lewis called Henry out, along with several others, when delivering a fairly blistering recap of why they lost to the Rams.

The guy has all the talent in the world, but it's exactly this kind of stuff that prompted my remarks about how he can't be trusted in big ways and small....and Lewis's remark about how Henry isn't a smart football player.

Meanwhile, after only three games in stripes, we've seen multiple examples of Coles busting his butt trying to make a TD saving tackle.

Could you imagine the controversy that would start before our first game if Henry was announced our #2? That's why Calwell got the start... Henry took off one play and he was punished for it. It won't happen again.

Cmon Hair do you really think Caldwell > Henry. Use a little common sense.

You're right, Coles does bust his butt though. I'm happy with Coles, Henry and 85. I'm really not trying to argue about it cause this is a silly debate but Henry is more talented.... I remember not too long ago some of you saying TJ was our #1, we all know how silly that debate was.

[agreen_112]

Oh and one more thing. Did everyoone notice that Henry did assist in tackling the Colts player after Jordan's INT?

That's why I love Marv as a coach.. Henry busted his tail last night.

[derekshank]

First, if I'm Dick LeBeau I breathe a little easier everytime Chris Henry is pulled off the field. I have to think he'd prefer we play Coles over Henry every play.

What exactly do you base this opinion on? You're talking about a guy who has been a productive #1 receiver his entire career suddenly being a #2. He's used to being double teamed, now he's got Chad drawing attention away from him. That's what I'd be worrying about.

Compare that to a guy who has never been anything more than a #3 WR. Sure, Henry is a very dangerous weapon as a #3... perhaps more dangerous than any other #3 in the league. But he's not a well rounded WR. He's a useful redzone weapon and an occasional deep threat.

If I'm LeBeau, I hate it when Henry is on the field too... but mostly because it means there are mismatches on the field in that 3WR set.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

"Tackle him, Slim" --- Bratkowski

Just like his protege Ocho Weirdo.

Yet the whole Ocho/Henry/Coles scenario is looking fairly promising right now...will see...3 slims

[ShulaSteakhouse]

He's got short-comings, hair, sure. Marvin is all about those. But I hope Marvin also appreciates that blowing-by-people-and-scoring-touchdowns is a skill too. As a third receiving option, or a red zone option, he may be the best in the league at that kind of role.

I suspect a lot of this is preseason posturing and Marvin trying to drive a point home to an immature player.

I don't know that it will carryover into the season much...it certainly doesn't seem as though Coles is comfortable in this system or with Palmer yet...then again he's gotten very little PT with him in live games, but it's hard to keep Henry from putting up #'s when Palmer has time to throw and is on the field.

[Sea Ray]

First, if I'm Dick LeBeau I breathe a little easier everytime Chris Henry is pulled off the field. I have to think he'd prefer we play Coles over Henry every play.

What exactly do you base this opinion on?

I'm basing that on the fact that when Coles catches the ball it'll likely be for 12 yards and (hopefully) a first down. When Henry catches the ball it mat very well be for a TD. D-coordinators fear a offense "going over their heads" more than anything. With Coles in the game they don't have that fear.

Your point that Henry is a huge mismatch for D-coordinators as a #3 is a good one. I'm fine with Henry starting the year as the #3 behind Chad and Coles but when they go to 3 wides I maintain that the other team will fear Henry more than Coles even though they're both on the field

[ArmyBengal]

What I found to be interesting is that SI.com had Chris Henry as the #83 OVERALL fantasy player.

Somebody has obviously been watching...

[derekshank]

First, if I'm Dick LeBeau I breathe a little easier everytime Chris Henry is pulled off the field. I have to think he'd prefer we play Coles over Henry every play.

What exactly do you base this opinion on?

I'm basing that on the fact that when Coles catches the ball it'll likely be for 12 yards and (hopefully) a first down. When Henry catches the ball it mat very well be for a TD. D-coordinators fear a offense "going over their heads" more than anything. With Coles in the game they don't have that fear.

The reason Henry catches so many TDs is because of the mismatches he makes n the situations he's put in. He's one of the most dangerous redzone threats on the team. If he was catching 70 passes a season, he wouldn't have such a high percentage of TDs. He's never even had a season with 40 receptions. We all see that Henry has great potential and pure athletic ability. But if he's on the field as a #2 WR, there's no way he looks as dominant as he did as a 3rd WR.

Henry also has not shown himself to be a better deep threat than Coles. Coles averages nearly as many yards/catch while playing as a #1 WR and catching more than twice as many balls a year. Sorry man. You're permitted to have your opinion, but there are very few facts to back it up. I don't think there is a single D-coordinator who fears Henry more than Coles.

[kingwilly]

He's got short-comings, hair, sure. Marvin is all about those. But I hope Marvin also appreciates that blowing-by-people-and-scoring-touchdowns is a skill too. As a third receiving option, or a red zone option, he may be the best in the league at that kind of role.

I suspect a lot of this is preseason posturing and Marvin trying to drive a point home to an immature player.

I don't know that it will carryover into the season much...it certainly doesn't seem as though Coles is comfortable in this system or with Palmer yet...then again he's gotten very little PT with him in live games, but it's hard to keep Henry from putting up #'s when Palmer has time to throw and is on the field.

It is somewhat surprising he is so public with his comments. Recall how he would simply not comment on 85, saying as little as possible?

I think Henry will still be up-and-down, if for no other reason that there is so much dang talent at WR. The things that makes Henry dangerous is our 4 RB's. Keep keying up to stop the ground assault and Henry smokes your nickel/FS for 6. This team has as mcuh Offensive talent as I think there has ever been. Even though I was abig supporter, it makes me go "TJ who?"

[COB]

I don't think there is a single D-coordinator who fears Henry more than Coles.

Citizens walking down the street fear Henry more than Coles.

[Sea Ray]

Sorry man. You're permitted to have your opinion, but there are very few facts to back it up. I don't think there is a single D-coordinator who fears Henry more than Coles.

It shouldn't be surprising that there are no facts to back up an "opinion" that D-Coordinators fear Henry more than Coles because unless I know a bunch of these coaches personally, it's just a hunch. You don't have any facts to backup your statement that no D-coordinator fears Henry more than Coles either. Unless you've talked to all of them, it's also just a hunch on your part. I base my football opinions on watching games, not numbers.

[Sea Ray]

I think Henry will still be up-and-down, if for no other reason that there is so much dang talent at WR. The things that makes Henry dangerous is our 4 RB's. Keep keying up to stop the ground assault and Henry smokes your nickel/FS for 6. This team has as mcuh Offensive talent as I think there has ever been. Even though I was abig supporter, it makes me go "TJ who?"

This team has a lot of offensive talent at the skill positions but we can't say that about the O-line yet. If the O-line will produce this O can be very good but that's a big if for such an untested group

[kingwilly]

I think Henry will still be up-and-down, if for no other reason that there is so much dang talent at WR. The things that makes Henry dangerous is our 4 RB's. Keep keying up to stop the ground assault and Henry smokes your nickel/FS for 6. This team has as mcuh Offensive talent as I think there has ever been. Even though I was abig supporter, it makes me go "TJ who?"

This team has a lot of offensive talent at the skill positions but we can't say that about the O-line yet. If the O-line will produce this O can be very good but that's a big if for such an untested group

I am not so sure. This group has shown it can run block, for sure. WHit and Bobbie are vets, and Kyle Cook is many lightyears better than Guysuck. Collins and Livings are the questions, I concede, but this group as a unit is better than last year. Also, last year was the end of the Perry experiment. With Carson pulling the trigger, I am of the mind that they will bury folks running and smoke them as soon as they try to stop the run with devastating strikes to the WR group.

These are fundamentals that I hope they stick with and do not regress to Brat favorties like the WR end-around, the 2nd and 8 HB dives and any route that is 2 yards short of the marker.

[Sea Ray]

I am not so sure. This group has shown it can run block, for sure. WHit and Bobbie are vets, and Kyle Cook is many lightyears better than Guysuck. Collins and Livings are the questions, I concede, but this group as a unit is better than last year. Also, last year was the end of the Perry experiment. With Carson pulling the trigger, I am of the mind that they will bury folks running and smoke them as soon as they try to stop the run with devastating strikes to the WR group.

These are fundamentals that I hope they stick with and do not regress to Brat favorties like the WR end-around, the 2nd and 8 HB dives and any route that is 2 yards short of the marker.

I agree with you that this line is better than last year, bigtime. But I'm not convinced this line can raise the team to say 2005 heights but with an improved defense maybe it won't have to

[Clackwoods]

Sorry man. You're permitted to have your opinion, but there are very few facts to back it up. I don't think there is a single D-coordinator who fears Henry more than Coles.

It shouldn't be surprising that there are no facts to back up an "opinion" that D-Coordinators fear Henry more than Coles because unless I know a bunch of these coaches personally, it's just a hunch. You don't have any facts to backup your statement that no D-coordinator fears Henry more than Coles either. Unless you've talked to all of them, it's also just a hunch on your part. I base my football opinions on watching games, not numbers.

While Coles is the more experienced and reliable receiver, he has lost a step with age. Chris is tall and an excellent redzone target. If I was a DEF Coordinator, I would fear the redzone target more and just be reserved to the fact that Coles is gonna get 5-8 catches a game, but for minimal gains.

[derekshank]

Sorry man. You're permitted to have your opinion, but there are very few facts to back it up. I don't think there is a single D-coordinator who fears Henry more than Coles.

It shouldn't be surprising that there are no facts to back up an "opinion" that D-Coordinators fear Henry more than Coles because unless I know a bunch of these coaches personally, it's just a hunch. You don't have any facts to backup your statement that no D-coordinator fears Henry more than Coles either. Unless you've talked to all of them, it's also just a hunch on your part.

I guess that's the difference between you and me. You admit that your opinions are based entirely on "hunches" while I attempt to use facts and base my opinions on deductive reasoning from those facts.

Right now, the pesky depth chart has Coles ahead of Henry. Why would a D-coordinator be more afraid of a WR who has never been able to fight his way into a starting lineup? Is the assumption that Marvin and Brat know so little about their own team that they can't figure out who deserves to be starting games?

I've already admitted that Henry is the best redzone weapon on the team, so I don't have a problem assuming he'd be most feared in that situation. But your statement was that D-coordinators would prefer Coles on the field over Henry. But Henry does only two things well. Run straight, and jump. If you want him to go over the middle, he gets alligator arms, he lacks heart in blocking, he gives up on plays... etc.

Coles is a much more complete WR. Specifically, I would be fearful of Coles history as an excellent YAC guy and his ability to turn an underneath route into a large gain over Henry's leaping ability in most game situations. Henry's skills play very well inside the 20. If he was more dangerous than Coles in other situations, then Coles would be the #3.

[Baraka]

Sorry man. You're permitted to have your opinion, but there are very few facts to back it up. I don't think there is a single D-coordinator who fears Henry more than Coles.

It shouldn't be surprising that there are no facts to back up an "opinion" that D-Coordinators fear Henry more than Coles because unless I know a bunch of these coaches personally, it's just a hunch. You don't have any facts to backup your statement that no D-coordinator fears Henry more than Coles either. Unless you've talked to all of them, it's also just a hunch on your part.

I guess that's the difference between you and me. You admit that your opinions are based entirely on "hunches" while I attempt to use facts and base my opinions on deductive reasoning from those facts.

Right now, the pesky depth chart has Coles ahead of Henry. Why would a D-coordinator be more afraid of a WR who has never been able to fight his way into a starting lineup? Is the assumption that Marvin and Brat know so little about their own team that they can't figure out who deserves to be starting games?

I've already admitted that Henry is the best redzone weapon on the team, so I don't have a problem assuming he'd be most feared in that situation. But your statement was that D-coordinators would prefer Coles on the field over Henry. But Henry does only two things well. Run straight, and jump. If you want him to go over the middle, he gets alligator arms, he lacks heart in blocking, he gives up on plays... etc.

Coles is a much more complete WR. Specifically, I would be fearful of Coles history as an excellent YAC guy and his ability to turn an underneath route into a large gain over Henry's leaping ability in most game situations. Henry's skills play very well inside the 20. If he was more dangerous than Coles in other situations, then Coles would be the #3.

read it again. could not have been said better. except the 1st paragraph. hunches are the only thing that we, as fans, have to connect the dots and it's the backbone of sites such as these. otherwise we would be bickering about . . . something different. c'est la vie.

[Clackwoods]

Sorry man. You're permitted to have your opinion, but there are very few facts to back it up. I don't think there is a single D-coordinator who fears Henry more than Coles.

It shouldn't be surprising that there are no facts to back up an "opinion" that D-Coordinators fear Henry more than Coles because unless I know a bunch of these coaches personally, it's just a hunch. You don't have any facts to backup your statement that no D-coordinator fears Henry more than Coles either. Unless you've talked to all of them, it's also just a hunch on your part.

I guess that's the difference between you and me. You admit that your opinions are based entirely on "hunches" while I attempt to use facts and base my opinions on deductive reasoning from those facts.

Right now, the pesky depth chart has Coles ahead of Henry. Why would a D-coordinator be more afraid of a WR who has never been able to fight his way into a starting lineup? Is the assumption that Marvin and Brat know so little about their own team that they can't figure out who deserves to be starting games?

I've already admitted that Henry is the best redzone weapon on the team, so I don't have a problem assuming he'd be most feared in that situation. But your statement was that D-coordinators would prefer Coles on the field over Henry. But Henry does only two things well. Run straight, and jump. If you want him to go over the middle, he gets alligator arms, he lacks heart in blocking, he gives up on plays... etc.

Coles is a much more complete WR. Specifically, I would be fearful of Coles history as an excellent YAC guy and his ability to turn an underneath route into a large gain over Henry's leaping ability in most game situations. Henry's skills play very well inside the 20. If he was more dangerous than Coles in other situations, then Coles would be the #3.

read it again. could not have been said better. except the 1st paragraph. hunches are the only thing that we, as fans, have to connect the dots and it's the backbone of sites such as these. otherwise we would be bickering about . . . something different. c'est la vie.

I could agree, however, there is the issue of Chris Henry being one arrest away from a full years suspension from the NFL. Then their is that pesky 7-8 million that we are giving Laverneus Coles.

Don't let his preseason numbers fool you. The majority of Chris's damage was done against subpar competition with our BACKUP QB. I am not being negative, I am just stating facts. While I do believe that he has a higher ceiling that Coles, there is just no way he catapults Coles this year, especially in a contract year. You think they are really gonna play him at number 2 in a contract year? lmfao I think not, then they would have to give him starter money....Of Course some crazy f**k is going to anyways if he has a decent season (AL)

[derekshank]

hunches are the only thing that we, as fans, have to connect the dots and it's the backbone of sites such as these.

Nah. Opinion is the lifeblood of the internet forum. Hunches are merely the tool used by many to form opinions. Others use other means to form opinions. Things like facts, logic, critical thinking skills, etc...

Some opinions are of higher quality than others. I would argue that opinions based primarily on hunches are of lesser quality and are often flat out wrong.

[Baraka]

hunches are the only thing that we, as fans, have to connect the dots and it's the backbone of sites such as these.

Nah. Opinion is the lifeblood of the internet forum. Hunches are merely the tool used by many to form opinions. Others use other means to form opinions. Things like facts, logic, critical thinking skills, etc...

Some opinions are of higher quality than others. I would argue that opinions based primarily on hunches are of lesser quality and are often flat out wrong.

hunches/opinions? whats the difference? again we quibble.

[Sea Ray]

I guess that's the difference between you and me. You admit that your opinions are based entirely on "hunches" while I attempt to use facts and base my opinions on deductive reasoning from those facts.

Right now, the pesky depth chart has Coles ahead of Henry. Why would a D-coordinator be more afraid of a WR who has never been able to fight his way into a starting lineup? Is the assumption that Marvin and Brat know so little about their own team that they can't figure out who deserves to be starting games?

I've already admitted that Henry is the best redzone weapon on the team, so I don't have a problem assuming he'd be most feared in that situation. But your statement was that D-coordinators would prefer Coles on the field over Henry. But Henry does only two things well. Run straight, and jump. If you want him to go over the middle, he gets alligator arms, he lacks heart in blocking, he gives up on plays... etc.

Coles is a much more complete WR. Specifically, I would be fearful of Coles history as an excellent YAC guy and his ability to turn an underneath route into a large gain over Henry's leaping ability in most game situations. Henry's skills play very well inside the 20. If he was more dangerous than Coles in other situations, then Coles would be the #3.

No, the difference is I tell it like it is and the truth is your opinion has no more factual basis than mine. I admit my opinion is no more than an educated guess and you should do the same. You feel an opposing defense fears the over the middle guy more than the guy who can run past defenders and stretch the field. I disagree. I think they can live with the over the middle catch that extends the drive but what they fear is a guy who can run past them.

You're entitled to your opinion but it's no more based on fact than mine

[Sea Ray]

I agree with you, NSIOY... At this point I don't think they should screw with the lineup. Chris Henry gives us a great mismatch at #3, I maintain that he is "more feared" than Coles but that doesn't necessarily mean he should be moved to #2.

[derekshank]

hunches/opinions? whats the difference?

Really? You don't know the difference? I fear for this country's future. It appears that public education is not what it used to be.

Alright. Dictionary.

A hunch is nothing more than a suspicion or a gut feeling.

An opinion is a judgment that merely lacks sufficient evidence to produce 100% certainty.

So... if I wanted to go test the stock market, who do I go to for advice? A fortune teller or a stockbroker? In your opinion, there is no difference.

[derekshank]

No, the difference is I tell it like it is and the truth is your opinion has no more factual basis than mine. I admit my opinion is no more than an educated guess and you should do the same. You feel an opposing defense fears the over the middle guy more than the guy who can run past defenders and stretch the field. I disagree. I think they can live with the over the middle catch that extends the drive but what they fear is a guy who can run past them.

You're entitled to your opinion but it's no more based on fact than mine

I admit my opinion is nothing more than an educated guess. Your opinion is not educated though. It's just a guess.

You claim that defenses fear Henry more than Coles because of his ability to catch the deep ball? Well, guess what. Coles also does that, but isn't a one-trick pony.

Did you know that in Henry's best season ('06) he only caught half of the passes he was targeted for? That's a lot of incompletions. Otherwise known as inconsistent. Yes, he caught a lot of TD's... but almost all of them inside the 20.

You are attempting to argue that Henry is a bigger threat anywhere on the field. But Coles has consistently been a viable deep threat, a good possession WR, a guy with dependable hands, and a player that can break big yards on a play designed for short yardage. Henry does only one of those things well.

Add to the argument... who is the best QB Coles has ever played with. Pennington? a 39 year old Favre? Coles is going to be more dangerous this year with a good QB throwing to him, and Chad taking away the double teams. Henry... he's always had Chad and Housh taking the focus off of him, and did nothing of note without Palmer in the lineup.

Alright. I'm done for now. That is plenty of evidence I've used to back up my opinion. You meanwhile offer no evidence and suggest that your hunch is just as valuable as my opinion. I disagree.