What did you think before the 05 season?

[walzav29]

I hate dwelling on a season that was 4 years ago, but do you remember anyone picking the Bengals to win the division that year? This team is so much better than that one. I am really surprised that even us Bengal fans have been slapped down into thinking this will just be another year. I don't want to re-hash what happend again the last 3 seasons, but to me the bad eggs are gone. This is going to be a great year so brace yourself. We've all wondered what would happen if the Bengals had a defense. We're gonna find out.

[kingwilly]

I hate dwelling on a season that was 4 years ago, but do you remember anyone picking the Bengals to win the division that year? This team is so much better than that one. I am really surprised that even us Bengal fans have been slapped down into thinking this will just be another year. I don't want to re-hash what happend again the last 3 seasons, but to me the bad eggs are gone. This is going to be a great year so brace yourself. We've all wondered what would happen if the Bengals had a defense. We're gonna find out.

I would have to agree with you on this. The only point that REALLY concerns me is our CB's.

Sure, we have two R1 picks starting. Sure, Roy was also a R1 pick. Sure Crocker looks like s stud.

But there is no depth. Cripes if hall or joseph falter or are injured.

Other than that, rev up the bandwagon. I will sit in the front row.

[HoosierCat]

I hate dwelling on a season that was 4 years ago, but do you remember anyone picking the Bengals to win the division that year? This team is so much better than that one.

I dunno. Defensively, this year's squad looks like it will be far more solid up front than '05's, but we had a ballhawking secondary from hell that year, and if you had a time machine and offered to trade me the Tory James and Deltha O'Neal of 2005 for Joseph and Hall, I might take that.

Come to think of it, those guys named Pollack and Thurman weren't chopped liver, either. For all you 3-4 fans imagine a LB corps of Pollack+Thurman+Rivers+Maualuga. Gawd help the rest of the NFL. File that under "might-have-beens."

On offense, sorry, the '05 squad was IMHO better than what we are likely to see this year. That isn't to say the O will be bad, in fact I think it will be pretty good, but Levi, Willie and Buckethead were the collective nazz that year. Again, give me the time machine scenario and Whit goes back to LG while Cook and Collins AND Andre Smith hit the bench.

Carson has yet to return to '05 form. Chad looks like old Chad, Coles v. TJ is a wash, and Henry = Henry. Reggie Kelly was healthy. Jeremi Johnson was pre-tubby. Benson I'll give you. Put him on the 2005 squad and I think he blows Rudi away, but no doubt Rudi was a workhorse, and Ced has yet to show he can do that.

I like this year's squad but my gut says they are still a year away.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I like this year's squad but my gut says they are still a year away.

What if my patience won't last that long?

[HoosierCat]

I like this year's squad but my gut says they are still a year away.

What if my patience won't last that long?

Well you'll just have to root for your Cards then, right?

[BengalszoneBilly]

I like this year's squad but my gut says they are still a year away.

What if my patience won't last that long?

Well you'll just have to root for your Cards then, right?

They're my local team out here, so I do that anyway.

[Esiason#7]

I like this year's squad but my gut says they are still a year away.

What if my patience won't last that long?

Well you'll just have to root for your Cards then, right?

They're my local team out here, so I do that anyway.

I guess I will have to follow the Cards a little bit as well. I just found out that I will be PCSing to Luke AFB in Feb. I'm pretty excited. And don't think that I won't be getting tickets to the Bengals-Cards game out there in 2010!

[derekshank]

I like this year's squad but my gut says they are still a year away.

Yeah. While I think the '09 team probably has a better locker room, I think the '05 team had a better collection of individual talent. Especially when you consider Levi, Willie, Steinbach, and Braham all playing at a high level...

I think a lot of people saw the Bengals as a sleeper team in '05 because they'd had two 8-8 finishes and Palmer was on the rise. There's certainly a lot of upside on this team (especially on defense), but the Bengals will need a lot of good bounces to repeat what happened 4 years ago.

[walzav29]

When you talk about the O-line 05 had the edge. I'd take Whit over Levi and who knows about Smith, but at the skill positions on offense I think 09 is better. Give me a sober experienced Henry over the thug rookie, and the wideouts from top to bottom are better. Scott is what Perry and Irons could never be, and physically Benson is better than Rudi. We'll have to actually see it on the field though. Rudi was a stud, but my theory is he benefitted from Palmer. The defense though this year kills 05.

[derekshank]

I'd take Whit over Levi

I'd take Whit over '09 Levi... but not '05 Levi. Say what you want about his attitude and work ethic, but in '05 he was an elite LT - short lived as it may have been.

Give me a sober experienced Henry over the thug rookie, and the wideouts from top to bottom are better.

We all have high hopes for Henry... but he still only shows flashes. Sure, it's nice that it appears he's got his life together, but only time will tell if that changes anything on the field. But I agree with you in theory. I do like this WR group... but Tab Perry and Kevin Walter were pretty nice 4 and 5 WRs back then too.

Scott is what Perry and Irons could never be, and physically Benson is better than Rudi. We'll have to actually see it on the field though. Rudi was a stud, but my theory is he benefitted from Palmer.

I need to know what you mean by "physically" better. Benson has better high end speed... but for 2 years Rudi was rated as the most difficult man in the NFL to tackle. Benson's tough, but he's not that. Also, despite being a terrible bust, Perry was a good pass catching weapon for that one magical year. I'm not ready to anoint Scott yet based on a preseason game against back-ups... even though he was impressive. It's still just potential.

The defense though this year kills 05.

Potential is the key word with this defense. Will Tank Johnson and Roy Williams bounce back? Will Rey and MJ translate to the NFL? Will Sims continue to progress? Will someone step up as a legitimate nickle corner?

Even if all those answers are positive, as Hoosier pointed out... for as woeful as the stats looked, the Bengals led the league in turnovers. This defense could be far superior and still be less effective.

I do not see this team as more talented or better than the '05 team. I see a higher ceiling for the potential - but the stars were aligned in '05 - and I don't forsee a repeat. But hey, far be it from me to piss on your optimism. I just see it differently.

[Ickey44]

IMO, if the offense didn't put up so many points in '05, the defense doesn't get the turnovers like that. Our offense caused the opposing offenses out of their game plans because they fell behind so quickly. Opportunistic is the word I describe the '05 defense with, not ball hawking.

Still, I think it's kind of pointless to keep bringing up that year. It has no bearing on what's going on now. I'm excited and nervous all at the same time about this year. This year's squad has both the potentinal to be a playoff team AND a losing team and I'm not sure which one we're going to see. If they can build on the good things from the first preseason game and eliminate some of the bad things I think we're in for a good year. Here's hoping anyways...

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I dunno. Defensively, this year's squad looks like it will be far more solid up front than '05's, but we had a ballhawking secondary from hell that year, and if you had a time machine and offered to trade me the Tory James and Deltha O'Neal of 2005 for Joseph and Hall, I might take that.

Agree on most points, but I do think that the D got more pressure on the QB in '05 than they have since, which give Deltha and Tory a lot of chances for picks.

I think if we get a decent pass rush - and Zimmer's promised to bring the heat this year - we might see those picks return. As we've all bemoaned many times, the last few years JJoe and Hall have basically been left out to dry by having to cover for so long. Give the guys a chance to play aggressively rather than on their heels, maybe they can make some plays (JJoe's rookie-year stonehands notwithstanding).

As you pointed out, the biggest discriminator is the O-line. Other than that, I expect the D will be a little better overall, the offense a touch weaker perhaps due to Chad being older and Carson being not quite the same.

One other thing we had in '05 that we don't now (or that I haven't seen) - a pass-catching RB. Scott, maybe, I haven't seen the preseason game. That would come in handy right now, having lost about 17 TEs to injury and also lacking Carson's favorite short-yardage target - TJ.

I will say this about the upcoming season - if you told me the O-line and the elbow would hold together, I'd predict this to be the best team *since* '05, with a very reasonable chance to be better. I do expect this to be the best defense we've had in 20 years.

[Clackwoods]

When you talk about the O-line 05 had the edge. I'd take Whit over Levi and who knows about Smith, but at the skill positions on offense I think 09 is better. Give me a sober experienced Henry over the thug rookie, and the wideouts from top to bottom are better. Scott is what Perry and Irons could never be, and physically Benson is better than Rudi. We'll have to actually see it on the field though. Rudi was a stud, but my theory is he benefitted from Palmer. The defense though this year kills 05.

That is kind of unfair to throw Irons name out their since he got hurt before he could prove anything. I do miss seeing the Bengals in the top 5 of the weekly power rankings.

[HoosierCat]

I like this year's squad but my gut says they are still a year away.

Yeah. While I think the '09 team probably has a better locker room, I think the '05 team had a better collection of individual talent. Especially when you consider Levi, Willie, Steinbach, and Braham all playing at a high level...

I think a lot of people saw the Bengals as a sleeper team in '05 because they'd had two 8-8 finishes and Palmer was on the rise. There's certainly a lot of upside on this team (especially on defense), but the Bengals will need a lot of good bounces to repeat what happened 4 years ago.

Agree and agree. I get a lot of good vibes about this squad in terms of its teamwork, maturity and ability to weather adversity.

[TJJackson]

The only point that REALLY concerns me is our CB's.

Err, if that's the only thing that concerns you, allow me to present exhibits 1 and 2: the offensive line, and the tight ends - err, assuming we have any healthy tight ends left. Do we?

[TJJackson]

I like this year's squad but my gut says they are still a year away.

What if my patience won't last that long?

In another thread, you said you'd been a bengals fan for as long as you can remember, crediting your father....so if you suffered along this far, you'll suffer along for another year

I want to see preseason game 3 before i call it, but I think anywhere from 4-12 to 8-8 is possible based on what i have seen so far, and Smith's arrival (if ever) will not shift the numbers any

[BengalszoneBilly]

I like this year's squad but my gut says they are still a year away.

What if my patience won't last that long?

In another thread, you said you'd been a bengals fan for as long as you can remember, crediting your father....so if you suffered along this far, you'll suffer along for another year

Your memory serves you well T.J., and for the record I'll suffer as long as it takes to see a Superbowl win for Cincinnati. Seeing as I stand at the age of 51 years, I just hope they can pull it off in my lifetime.

[TJJackson]

for the record I'll suffer as long as it takes to see a Superbowl win for Cincinnati. Seeing as I stand at the age of 51 years, I just hope they can pull it off in my lifetime.

Well, SoaG's mind has already gone, so maybe the body is not far behind

I think you have a good shot to outlast him

[BengalszoneBilly]

for the record I'll suffer as long as it takes to see a Superbowl win for Cincinnati. Seeing as I stand at the age of 51 years, I just hope they can pull it off in my lifetime.

Well, SoaG's mind has already gone, so maybe the body is not far behind

I think you have a good shot to outlast him

Your description makes it sound like a UFC fight. How about I lock him in an arm bar and make him submit to hiring a true GM?

[jjakq27]

I felt they had a chance to make the playoffs and be in the running. Marvin had brought them to some level of respectability in 2003 and 2004. The upset of the 9-0 Chiefs in 2003 and they way they competed with the Patriots before Carson hurt his knee in 2004 gave me reason to believe that they should be taken serious in 2005.

On paper things seem to be looking up on defense this year. I like Zimmer. In fact I could see him taking Marvin's place at some point in the future, if they are able to keep him around until then. THe key as always is putting pressure on the QB and creating turnovers. That was a big part of their success in 2005.

My main concern is the o-line and Carson's arm/knee. Keeping him healthy has to be the number one priority.