Any chance Andre Smith is signed...ever?

[Clackwoods]

He won't be signed before the first cuts on 1 SEP, which means that he'll only be able to contribute in specialy packages immediately, assuming he's even in football shape.

That said, he'll break in as a run-blocking TE in short-yardage sets before taking over for AC by the Week 8 bye. I'm hoping Whit can handle the James Harrisons of the world, but something tells me we'll see a lineup that includes Whit, AC and Andre by minicamp next year (if not sooner), with Whit at G. Another consideration is that Bobbie Williams is a UFA after the season.

f**k Andre Smith this year. Look at it this way. The 2010 roster will inherit 2 first round picks. Andre Smith and whoever we draft next year (Probably a RB). Anyways, we got Keith back. That is a good enough first round talent for me

[TJJackson]

Yeah, at this point, his value is at best half of what it was, so why pay the full rate?

I stop raising my offer at this point and start lowering it every day

[Kazkal]

Yeah, at this point, his value is at best half of what it was, so why pay the full rate?

I stop raising my offer at this point and start lowering it every day

& If I was player even if it meant me getting drafted in the second round next year would refuse and let the team be screwed out of a first round pick...Works both ways both sides need to play fair =P

[Sea Ray]

Yeah, at this point, his value is at best half of what it was, so why pay the full rate?

I stop raising my offer at this point and start lowering it every day

I agree and I don't see why teams don't do this more often. Every week he holds out he becomes less valuable so why don't teams reflect that in their offers? I think that'd speed up negotiations too.

[HoosierCat]

Why dont you two get a room already and work out those evident sexual frustrations? Sheesh. :-)

This from a clown who calls other men "sweetie" and often writes openly about his manlove for a guy named...Bernard.

Well, IIRC it's back-to-school time for TJ so I'm sure he's a little on edge. Here's a l'il blast from the past (just the pic, not the copy) for ya, TJ:

Which reminds me, I miss Big Orange...

[Kazkal]

I miss Big Orange.

[walzav29]

Yeah. Forget about this year. It seems like a bad match. F'm both. Just another in a long line of black eye's for both parties. I blame the Bengals for this, because I think they're trying to screw him over by not going by the slotting system. I think they thought they could screw him because of his checkered past. Now it's a waste of 20 million.

[Sea Ray]

Yeah, at this point, his value is at best half of what it was, so why pay the full rate?

I stop raising my offer at this point and start lowering it every day

& If I was player even if it meant me getting drafted in the second round next year would refuse and let the team be screwed out of a first round pick...Works both ways both sides need to play fair =P

If you really look at the numbers you wouldn't say that.

Let's look at last year. Vernon Gholston was the #6 pick in the draft. He got a 5 yr deal for $50 MILL AND $21 MILL GUARANTEED. The #2 pick in the 2nd round was Donnie Avery. His deal was a 4 yr at $4.8mill and $2.7 guaranteed. So I ask you...are you willing to sacrifice $20mill to "screw the team out of a 1st rd pick"?

I think not. Andre has to sign and everyone who's looked at the numbers sees it

[gregstephens]

There...fixed the title again.

[Kazkal]

Yeah, at this point, his value is at best half of what it was, so why pay the full rate?

I stop raising my offer at this point and start lowering it every day

& If I was player even if it meant me getting drafted in the second round next year would refuse and let the team be screwed out of a first round pick...Works both ways both sides need to play fair =P

If you really look at the numbers you wouldn't say that.

Let's look at last year. Vernon Gholston was the #6 pick in the draft. He got a 5 yr deal for $50 MILL AND $21 MILL GUARANTEED. The #2 pick in the 2nd round was Donnie Avery. His deal was a 4 yr at $4.8mill and $2.7 guaranteed. So I ask you...are you willing to sacrifice $20mill to "screw the team out of a 1st rd pick"?

I think not. Andre has to sign and everyone who's looked at the numbers sees it

Well when the owner is dropping his offer each day and your just looking for fair deal for your slot like how system works....Why would he want to play for the one owner in the nfl who would rather save a few million vs get you in camp asap so you can better help his team?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Let's look at last year. Vernon Gholston was the #6 pick in the draft. He got a 5 yr deal for $50 MILL AND $21 MILL GUARANTEED. The #2 pick in the 2nd round was Donnie Avery. His deal was a 4 yr at $4.8mill and $2.7 guaranteed. So I ask you...are you willing to sacrifice $20mill to "screw the team out of a 1st rd pick"?

I think not. Andre has to sign and everyone who's looked at the numbers sees it

I'm not as certain he'd go that low if he sits out. I think he could easily go in the top 10-15. Figure that the Bengals now are offering 15% below this year's market, and figure on another 15% bump next year. So tack on essentially 30% to whatever he'd make this year when comparing slots. My guess is he'd end up making a little less less year, but close enough that he might prefer it to signing with a team that's holding him hostage.

[Sea Ray]

Well when the owner is dropping his offer each day and your just looking for fair deal for your slot like how system works....Why would he want to play for the one owner in the nfl who would rather save a few million vs get you in camp asap so you can better help his team?

I think I'd tolerate Mike Brown for $20mill, wouldn't you?

[membengal]

dc: HUGE gamble from Smith to go that route though. Hard for anyone to stay in football shape with a year layoff. And Smith has already shown some issues in the short-term with keeping in shape.

I just don't see sitting out as a real option for him.

Frankly, I think Mike and pumpkin smell blood in the water. First time first round deal for Keels, a player in Smith who really can't afford to sit out a year, and a so-far healthy line with two decent tackles in camp, giving them all the leverage right now.

[Sea Ray]

Let's look at last year. Vernon Gholston was the #6 pick in the draft. He got a 5 yr deal for $50 MILL AND $21 MILL GUARANTEED. The #2 pick in the 2nd round was Donnie Avery. His deal was a 4 yr at $4.8mill and $2.7 guaranteed. So I ask you...are you willing to sacrifice $20mill to "screw the team out of a 1st rd pick"?

I think not. Andre has to sign and everyone who's looked at the numbers sees it

I'm not as certain he'd go that low if he sits out. I think he could easily go in the top 10-15. Figure that the Bengals now are offering 15% below this year's market, and figure on another 15% bump next year. So tack on essentially 30% to whatever he'd make this year when comparing slots. My guess is he'd end up making a little less less year, but close enough that he might prefer it to signing with a team that's holding him hostage.

I don't see it. His antics this year likely caused him to drop to 10-15 if it weren't for Mike Brown. If he rusts for a whole year his value goes down accordingly. What do you think his weight will look like after a year of not playing? If I'm his agent I don't like those odds. He also has lost a whole year from his professional playing career. It will cost him many millions to sit out. Only the top of the top players get drafted 1-15. He won't qualify as such

[Clackwoods]

I hope he gets in a car accident and tears both his ACL's....lol

[Kazkal]

Well when the owner is dropping his offer each day and your just looking for fair deal for your slot like how system works....Why would he want to play for the one owner in the nfl who would rather save a few million vs get you in camp asap so you can better help his team?

I think I'd tolerate Mike Brown for $20mill, wouldn't you?

I'm 25 years old and was barley good enough to play in Highschool so that's a dumb question to ask a fan,Though if I was talented enough to be considered the best player in the draft I would atleast the money that the slot was supposed too which is fair with how the current system works.

ar, and a so-far healthy line with two decent tackles in camp, giving them all the leverage right now.

Mean one Decent & one below average?

I hope he gets in a car accident and tears both his ACL's....lol

Ya because flushing another 1st round pick down the drain is really going to improve this team

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I don't see it. His antics this year likely caused him to drop to 10-15 if it weren't for Mike Brown. If he rusts for a whole year his value goes down accordingly. What do you think his weight will look like after a year of not playing? If I'm his agent I don't like those odds. He also has lost a whole year from his professional playing career. It will cost him many millions to sit out. Only the top of the top players get drafted 1-15. He won't qualify as such

His antics this year were the only reason he wasn't #1 overall. And it's not like he was a combine machine, let's admit. So if he gets his big ass in better shape, why wouldn't a team take a flyer on him at 10-15 with the very real possibility that they're getting the best OT in the draft, and more importantly, the ability to get him at a lower slot?

The question is what he can do to demonstrate his value since the Bengals own his rights until draft day. He can't do the combine, but can he do a pro day? Can he mail tapes of him running the 40 and such to GMs? Failing that, I want to know exactly when the Bengals forfeit his rights. Could he do a pro day...on the morning of draft day, in New York? That would be a spectacle that would be worth seeing.

[ArmyBengal]

While the situatiuon disgusts me as a fan and I don't agree with how it's being handled on either side, I'm still of the mindset that it will eventually get done and when it does, the conversation will change in this regard. People will immediately start talking about how long it's going to take to get him in the lineup and especially if the current starters struggle. I also think once Andre does prove he's ready to get some playing time, he will impress and not take long to actually take the starters spot.

Then again, I was one of the ones who actually wanted to draft him. I'm still not overly concerned and find it odd that some members get sh*t for getting worked up about other things and yet others are already saying this season is a "complete waste" for Andre Smith. That is just foolish even if you don't like the guy for his moobs...

[HoosierCat]

The question is what he can do to demonstrate his value since the Bengals own his rights until draft day. He can't do the combine, but can he do a pro day? Can he mail tapes of him running the 40 and such to GMs? Failing that, I want to know exactly when the Bengals forfeit his rights. Could he do a pro day...on the morning of draft day, in New York? That would be a spectacle that would be worth seeing.

My understanding is that he can't work out in person for other teams, so no pro days or private workouts or anything like that, but nothing prevents him from holding workouts for the media, posting videos of workouts, etc. And let's face it, it wouldn't be hard to arrange an "accidental" workout: say Andre takes a vacation to New Orleans, where he just happens to work out in a gym where a couple scouts from the Saints just happen to be jogging on treadmills, etc.

That said, I agree with army that the most likely scenario is he gets signed. Again, if the Bengals stick to form, sometime after tonight's game and before the opener things will be reported to be heating up. And sometime around the time of the opener, Smith will sign a deal that, for the most part, gives him all he's asking for. The Bengals will be able to claim victory on a handful of incentive and escalator clauses.

[Jet23]

It's just ANOTHER example of the Brown family not having 'their eye on the ball'. Instead of working towards building a winning franchise, they are focused on destroying the entire slotting system. Really, what do they expect this Agent to do? If he accepts less than last year's 6 AND this year's 7, he is done as an Agent.

Again, this reminds me of soP's initial refusal to the voidable years clause. He eventually acquiesced then, and I believe he will have to here as well. Either that or they are headed for another Ricky Hunley fiasco.

It is not lost on me that this entire situation was caused by that loon in Oakland. He also put the Niners in a bad spot, by having to negotiate with a receiver that is clearly superior to a stiff that was just given the moon. But, I don't know that the Gholston contract of last year was out of line. I just do not see how this can be resolved other than the Bengals giving a little, or at least throwing in some difficult incentives that could potentially escalate the contract to numbers that would appropriately reflect the 6 slot.

soP, Pumpkin, and skiddish Agent and the Crypt Keeper. This is the perfect storm of ugly...

[BengalByTheBay]

I still think this gets done in the next 10 days or so, with the Bengals essentially caving and agreeing to money appropriate to the slot. There will be some performance incentive, etc. that will be held onto as a point of pride, but the deal should get done in the slot. In the cosmic question of who's to blame, I don't suppose it really matters. Mike Brown likes to rail against the realities of the business of the sport and he generally has to pay the consequences of that windmill tilting. Here, his #1 arrives late and doesn't crack the starting lineup until week 3 or 4. It is, as they say, what it is....

[Sea Ray]

I still think this gets done in the next 10 days or so, with the Bengals essentially caving and agreeing to money appropriate to the slot. There will be some performance incentive, etc. that will be held onto as a point of pride, but the deal should get done in the slot. In the cosmic question of who's to blame, I don't suppose it really matters. Mike Brown likes to rail against the realities of the business of the sport and he generally has to pay the consequences of that windmill tilting. Here, his #1 arrives late and doesn't crack the starting lineup until week 3 or 4. It is, as they say, what it is....

I agree it gets done but why should Mike Brown cave? I don't see the incentive unless there's an injury on our O-line

[ArmyBengal]

why should Mike Brown cave?

Because his dumb ass drafted a player they KNEW they were going to have issues signing, waited for him to be slotted regardless of the fact there was a QB and the Raiders doing the drafting on either side of the Bengals slot, can't figure out why they don't just take what's offered because "it's so much money" while looking like complete idiots on Hard Knocks, and then fail to make an offer anywhere close to what the slot calls for and is the accepted practice of the league at this point in time. Oh yeah, lets not forget he was drafted to assist in protecting the golden boy who has missed an ass load of time due to injury.

I think that about covers it...

[membengal]

Frankly, I think Mike and pumpkin smell blood in the water. First time first round deal for Keels, a player in Smith who really can't afford to sit out a year, and a so-far healthy line with two decent tackles in camp, giving them all the leverage right now.

Bumping myself from the bottom of last page. Just because.

[Clackwoods]

While the situatiuon disgusts me as a fan and I don't agree with how it's being handled on either side, I'm still of the mindset that it will eventually get done and when it does, the conversation will change in this regard. People will immediately start talking about how long it's going to take to get him in the lineup and especially if the current starters struggle. I also think once Andre does prove he's ready to get some playing time, he will impress and not take long to actually take the starters spot.

Then again, I was one of the ones who actually wanted to draft him. I'm still not overly concerned and find it odd that some members get sh*t for getting worked up about other things and yet others are already saying this season is a "complete waste" for Andre Smith. That is just foolish even if you don't like the guy for his moobs...

If he is learning the playbook I think he has the talent to come in and start by week 4. He just needs some reps in practice with the 1st team.