Roethlisberger faces several charges including sex charges

[icehole3]

per rotoworld

/>http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=146099

say what!

exhibit A your honor

[ArmyBengal]

I'm going to start off the responses by saying that nothing has been proved and the female involved never filed any criminal charges against him from a situation that "happened" over a year ago. I smell someone wanting to get paid. Lets keep this one within reason until there is a reason to bash the guy.

[gregstephens]

I'm going to start off the responses by saying that nothing has been proved and the female involved never filed any criminal charges against him from a situation that "happened" over a year ago. I smell someone wanting to get paid. Lets keep this one within reason until there is a reason to bash the guy.

I agree. As a prosecutor dealing with these types of cases exclusively, I can almost assure you there was some level of criminal investigation prior to this. Here's why I say that. No civil attorney worth a squat is going to let his or her client file this without trying to get a criminal conviction first. Criminal conviction automatically equals payday on a civil level due to burdens of proof.

What more likely happened, even if it's not publicly disclosed, is that the cops investigated it, maybe took it to the DA, and then told the victim we got nothing. She does want a payday, files this suit to either squeeze a settlement, or hoping she can squeeze out fifty percent plus one, which is the civil burden of proof.

Saying all that, I'm not saying this woman is lying, or telling the truth. I do not know what the evidence is. We have plenty of cases brought that I think happened, but can never build up enough for a convictable case. Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't.

Until this plays out, I got nothing to say about Ben.

[ArmyBengal]

What I don't want to see happen is a bunch of people come on here and start spouting off about how Ben is a rapist and how much the Steelers suck and how we took so much sh*t about Henry and now it's there turn with the criminals they have on their team. While they do have things to deal with, this shouldn't be the thing to attempt bashing them about.

Honestly, if Ben didn't do any of this, I would love to see just once someone go back after the person that made all the sh*t up to start and crucify them.

If he did, BASH AWAY !!!

[Ickey44]

What I don't want to see happen is a bunch of people come on here and start spouting off about how Ben is a rapist and how much the Steelers suck and how we took so much sh*t about Henry and now it's there turn with the criminals they have on their team. While they do have things to deal with, this shouldn't be the thing to attempt bashing them about.

Honestly, if Ben didn't do any of this, I would love to see just once someone go back after the person that made all the sh*t up to start and crucify them.

If he did, BASH AWAY !!!

The only thing I have to say is that Ben has never struck me as a very smart guy. I don't know what the charges are yet and don't know how he's involved, but these types of things are going to keep happening to him, I think, because he's just not smart enough to keep himself out of situations he shouldn't be in.

[ArmyBengal]

Honestly though, these guys all have targets on them for this type of thing to happen. They are staying in hotel rooms while on the road or even during the off season and it's not like people don't know who they are. I think it would be a real challenge to a degree to keep something like this from EVER happening. There are to many sh*tty people in the world willing to do anything to get paid.

Once again, if he actually did it, then he's a f*cking sh*t bag that needs to be dealt with accordingly, but I'm just not there yet and if it were me, I would hope people would let it run it's course instead of judging through the media.

[rishipatel]

I'm not convicting the guy before he's had a chance to defend himself, but the details of this woman's story have been put up on pft, and it is hard to imagine a woman giving so much detail if there wasn't some truth to the story. That's not to say he did rape her, but that she was very likely in his room that night. And if he brought her up there under false pretenses, it is not inconceivable that this actually happened the way she says. I sure hope there is still video evidence like she says there was.

And as for her not filing criminal charges, we just don't know if that is the case. Maybe she already tried? Maybe her attorneys decided that they don't have enough evidence to win a criminal case which requires a higher burden of proof I believe, but they think they have a shot at winning a civil suit? And as for the time that has passed, I imagine that being raped would be a very difficult thing to get through emotionally for a woman. So it makes sense that some time would pass before she came forward if she didn't take it to the authorities immediately.

Regardless, if he did this, then there may very well be others to step forward in the coming weeks. And if he did it, then goodell better come down hard as hell on his ass to make an example of him. But first, more info needs to come out and he has to have a chance to tell his side. Just my 2 cents...

[icehole3]

more claims from the woman

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

McNulty claims that, when she arrived at the room, he was wearing a T-shirt and athletic shorts. She adds, for no apparent reason other than to show the clarity of her recollection, that the room was a mess.

Roethlisberger showed her the television that was malfunctioning, located in suite's bedroom. Using the remote, she determined that there was no problem with the television or the sound system.

She claims that, as she tried to leave the room, Roethlisberger blocked her path, and that he "grabbed [her] and started to kiss her."

She claims that she was "shocked and stunned that this previously friendly man, that appeared to be a gentleman in her previous contacts with him was suddenly preventing her from leaving, was assaulting and battering her."

McNulty admits that she didn't try to fight Roethlisberger, citing his size and strength. She claims that she "communicated her objection and lack of consent," and that he nevertheless began "fondling [her] through her dress and between her legs."

She claims that he pushed her onto the bed, and despite her alleged protests he "pulled her underpants off and proceeded to penetrate her."

McNulty claims that she told him, "You don't want to do this." She also claims that she said, "Please don't," and that she told him she was not on any type of birth control.

She claims that he said in response, "Don't worry, I'll pull out," which he ultimately did.

[membengal]

So, here's the thing Army.

of COURSE there is a long way to go here, and no one should presume anything.

But I linger here to note that already Roeth and the Steelers are getting a kids glove treatment on this story that the Bengals would sure as s**t not be getting. If this were Palmer who had that kind of accusation leveled against him? It leads SC. With a reference to everything from the Bengals' past.

The Steelers have had more than their share of off-field incidents, and yet they get a pass. Frustrating. In every respect.

I give PFT a hard time, but grudgingly have to admit that Florio is pushing this story too. So, good on them.

Oh, and Steelers fans can go f**k off with that "criminal team" crap after this. As can Browns fans. And Ravens fans while they're at it.

[BengalByTheBay]

If something proves the allegation is true, he should burn. However, our resident criminal prosecutor is completely correct that the absence of any kind of criminal prosecution is very troubling. I can't believe that the Clark County DA would hesitate to nail a high profile target like this if he had any chance of success, so I tend to think that the evidence may not be there. If everything she said was true, shouldn't she have reported this immediately afterward? I don't mean to attack the victim, but ... why the hell is this coming up only now? And, yeah, I have no problem believing it could have happened that way and I wouldn't shed a tear if he got busted, but there would have to be something reported immediately or some real evidence that it actually happened for me to take her story seriously. Otherwise, you've just got an "American Beauty" scenario that anyone could be accused of at any time.

[membengal]

Yo folks, I don't believe there were ever criminal charges brought in Seattle against certain Bengals over the Victoria C gang-rape allegations (circa 1991 - 92). But there WERE settlements around that, I believe, and the Bengals pretty much rid themselves of all the players involved in the ensuing year or two. There are a LOT of reasons why a woman may not choose to initially pursue a criminal charge, and still have been sexually assaulted. It would be flat unfair to draw an inference against how she is choosing to pursue this off of that.

And our resident prosecutor, I think, would candidly have to admit that it is not easy for a woman in such a situation as this to prove her case to a degree sufficient to get a conviction. And the process to go through to get to that point has often been said to be nearly as bad as the triggering assualt. The standard to win a civil suit is not near as high a bar to meet. Think the OJ trial. Acquitted on charges of murder in criminal court, hit with a massive finding of liability in civil court for the death of Nicole. Same facts. Different outcomes. A lot of reasons for that, but one of them was the different standards of proof required to win your case between civil court and criminal court. So saith this civil attorney.

He may not have done it. He may have done it. It may be in-between (although her alleagtions are pure rape, no other way to read it). But it is wrong to automatically assume "gold-digger" or that she is lying.

[gregstephens]

Yo folks, I don't believe there were ever criminal charges brought in Seattle against certain Bengals over the Victoria C gang-rape allegations (circa 1991 - 92). But there WERE settlements around that, I believe, and the Bengals pretty much rid themselves of all the players involved in the ensuing year or two. There are a LOT of reasons why a woman may not choose to initially pursue a criminal charge, and still have been sexually assaulted. It would be flat unfair to draw an inference against how she is choosing to pursue this off of that.

And our resident prosecutor, I think, would candidly have to admit that it is not easy for a woman in such a situation as this to prove her case to a degree sufficient to get a conviction. And the process to go through to get to that point has often been said to be nearly as bad as the triggering assualt. The standard to win a civil suit is not near as high a bar to meet. Think the OJ trial. Acquitted on charges of murder in criminal court, hit with a massive finding of liability in civil court for the death of Nicole. Same facts. Different outcomes. A lot of reasons for that, but one of them was the different standards of proof required to win your case between civil court and criminal court. So saith this civil attorney.

He may not have done it. He may have done it. It may be in-between (although her alleagtions are pure rape, no other way to read it). But it is wrong to automatically assume "gold-digger" or that she is lying.

Oh, there is no doubt that many true victims DON'T disclose until a period of time has passed. However, the typical juror does take time lags and hold them against victims, primarily because most people that haven't been through this think a victim would naturally tell right away. And most of these cases, no DNA, time lag, high profile target, no eye witnesses, are unprovable in a court of law.

That said, either she did tell the cops and they didn't feel there was enough to jump into a full attack on a high profile target (unlike that bonehead in the Duke Lacross case), or she didn't tell the cops and chose to tell a civil attorney FIRST, which becomes very problematic in terms of her credibility on the stand in any type of case.

[COB]

So she's claiming that she didn't physically resist in any way? I find for the defendant.

Also, she appears to be crazy.

[membengal]

Problemtatic, but not insurmountable, from a civil trial standpoint. You retain an expert who will opine that a raped woman's response to the assualt is highly variable, and that there is NO one correct way to respond to the assault. So while pursuing a prosecution from a criminal venue is right for one victim, saving herself the horror of the rape kit, police interviews, etc. and instead pursuing a civil suit instead may be right for another.

In either instance, the rape may have occurred.

I just would caution people assuming immediately she is lying because she chose to forego the criminal prosecution route. Again, for rape victims, that particular process can feel as much like an assault as what they initially went through.

And while Greg's point on credibility is well taken, it is less of a bar and less of a problem in a civil lawsuit than it would be in a criminal lawsuit.

[gregstephens]

So she's claiming that she didn't physically resist in any way? I find for the defendant.

Also, she appears to be crazy.

Now, the judge reads for you the jury instruction that states that you don't have to find any physical resistance to find defendant guilty. You CAN convict even if there is no evidence of resistance.

Still not gonna, are ya'?

[membengal]

So she's claiming that she didn't physically resist in any way? I find for the defendant.

Also, she appears to be crazy.

What's Roeth, 6'5", 270? What kind of resistance do you, a man, deem proper? Again, there is no one correct way to be raped, or respond to being raped. Some women would fight like they are dying. Others may mentally detatch from what is happening to just try and get the f**k out of the room alive.

In a civil lawsuit, if I am her attorney, you do not make it within four miles of the jury box.

[gregstephens]

Problemtatic, but insurmountable, from a civil trial standpoint. You retain an expert who will opine that a raped woman's response to the assualt is highly variable, and that there is NO one correct way to respond to the assualt. So while pursuing a prosecution from a criminal venue is right for one victim, saving herself the horror of the rape kit, police interviews, etc. and pursuing a civil suit instead may be right for another.

In either instance, the rape may have occurred.

I just would caution people assuming immediately she is lying because she chose to forego the criminal prosecution route. Again, for rape victims, that particular process can feel as much like an assualt as what they initially went through.

And while Greg's point on credibility is well taken, it is less of a bar and less of a problem in a civil lawsuit than it would be in a criminal lawsuit.

True enough, but while it is less of a problem in a civil lawsuit because of the burden of proof, you then mix in his status as a celebrity and his monetary worth, still makes a civil verdict in her favor less likely, but not impossible.

[gregstephens]

So she's claiming that she didn't physically resist in any way? I find for the defendant.

Also, she appears to be crazy.

What's Roeth, 6'5", 270? What kind of resistance do you, a man, deem proper? Again, there is no one correct way to be raped, or respond to being raped. Some women would fight like they are dying. Others may mentally detatch from what is happening to just try and get the f**k out of the room alive.

In a civil lawsuit, if I am her attorney, you do not make it within four miles of the jury box.

I'm going to give you the skinny here. Intuitively, one would think you'd want more women than men on this jury because men can't relate to the female rape thing. However, I had a 17 year old victim that reported immediately on a force rape case. She did not resist. The WOMEN on the jury caused his acquittal, because several of them said that if that had been her in that position, they would have clawed at him, or something that would have left marks on the guy's face. WOMEN are harsher jurors on female victims than men.

[membengal]

This is all about her at this point.

If she is crazy, and this is all made up, that will quickly become clear.

But, IF something happened, then she will decide how far to push this and to what end. Victims of sexual assault need to get some power back. If what happened is what she said happened, then it may be worth it to her to proceed even in the face of his celebrity and the inevitable laying bare of her personal life (recall what we learned about Kobe's victim).

[ArmyBengal]

So, here's the thing Army.

of COURSE there is a long way to go here, and no one should presume anything.

But I linger here to note that already Roeth and the Steelers are getting a kids glove treatment on this story that the Bengals would sure as s**t not be getting. If this were Palmer who had that kind of accusation leveled against him? It leads SC. With a reference to everything from the Bengals' past.

The Steelers have had more than their share of off-field incidents, and yet they get a pass. Frustrating. In every respect.

I give PFT a hard time, but grudgingly have to admit that Florio is pushing this story too. So, good on them.

Oh, and Steelers fans can go f**k off with that "criminal team" crap after this. As can Browns fans. And Ravens fans while they're at it.

My point is more to the fact that people tend to come off as real assh*les about stuff like this and then come to find there was nothing at all or even if there was, nothing came of it and those same people sit holding their dick in their hands looking like a bunch of classless f*cksticks after going off on a tirade because they simply don't like the team this guy plays for.

I would rather simply wait to see what happens and if guilty, crucify his ass, so to speak.

Whatever the media or anyone else does with it, I don't really care about, but would guess their are legalities involved that Greg certainly would be better suited to answer than I.

[membengal]

So she's claiming that she didn't physically resist in any way? I find for the defendant.

Also, she appears to be crazy.

What's Roeth, 6'5", 270? What kind of resistance do you, a man, deem proper? Again, there is no one correct way to be raped, or respond to being raped. Some women would fight like they are dying. Others may mentally detatch from what is happening to just try and get the f**k out of the room alive.

In a civil lawsuit, if I am her attorney, you do not make it within four miles of the jury box.

I'm going to give you the skinny here. Intuitively, one would think you'd want more women than men on this jury because men can't relate to the female rape thing. However, I had a 17 year old victim that reported immediately on a force rape case. She did not resist. The WOMEN on the jury caused his acquittal, because several of them said that if that had been her in that position, they would have clawed at him, or something that would have left marks on the guy's face. WOMEN are harsher jurors on female victims than men.

tend to agree. But what I am pushing back against is HIS take on the proper response to rape. I don't let him into my jury box. I want Dads of daughters in mine, and preferably anyone who understands that there is no one correct way to respond to this kind of violation or that has a preconceived notion that there is one correct way to respond to this kind of violation.

[membengal]

So, here's the thing Army.

of COURSE there is a long way to go here, and no one should presume anything.

But I linger here to note that already Roeth and the Steelers are getting a kids glove treatment on this story that the Bengals would sure as s**t not be getting. If this were Palmer who had that kind of accusation leveled against him? It leads SC. With a reference to everything from the Bengals' past.

The Steelers have had more than their share of off-field incidents, and yet they get a pass. Frustrating. In every respect.

I give PFT a hard time, but grudgingly have to admit that Florio is pushing this story too. So, good on them.

Oh, and Steelers fans can go f**k off with that "criminal team" crap after this. As can Browns fans. And Ravens fans while they're at it.

My point is more to the fact that people tend to come off as real assh*les about stuff like this and then come to find there was nothing at all or even if there was, nothing came of it and those same people sit holding their dick in their hands looking like a bunch of classless f*cksticks after going off on a tirade because they simply don't like the team this guy plays for.

I would rather simply wait to see what happens and if guilty, crucify his ass, so to speak.

Whatever the media or anyone else does with it, I don't really care about, but would guess their are legalities involved that Greg certainly would be better suited to answer than I.

So you are demanding Bengals fans be above this kind of behavior? Ouch. Hard standard. How much s**t were we as a fanbase forced to eat over Chris Henry's alleged indiscretion with a teenage hooker from opposing fans???

[membengal]

Off the top of my head, the off-season for...

...Cleveland: murderer WR

...Pittsburgh: accused rapist QB

...Baltimore: tied to McNair, philandering ex-QB shot to death

...Cincy: DUI for Leon Hall.

Cincy wins!

[gregstephens]

Off the top of my head, the off-season for...

...Cleveland: murderer WR

...Pittsburgh: accused rapist QB

...Baltimore: tied to McNair, philandering ex-QB shot to death

...Cincy: DUI for Leon Hall.

Cincy wins!

That's not fair to Baltimore, though, when McNair wasn't on the team and the death happened in Tennessee. Besides, they still got 'Hit Man' Ray Lewis!

[membengal]

I don't care if its fair to Baltimore or not. In the ESPN eulogizing of McNair, they were quick to highlight the 13-win season he led them to after he left Tennessee.

And, yes, they still have the murdering LBer on their team. But I am giving them McNair as well, as that is what ESPN did.