gregstephens Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-7774-Cincinnati-Bengals-Examiner~y2009m7d16-Shayne-Graham-is-one-and-doneand-why-that-is-a-bad-thing-for-the-BengalsOk guys, had to chime in my two cents worth here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Well they could end up tagging him next season too since it would still be reasonable price...Atm we don't have anyone else worth franchise but who knows by seasons end?Chris Henry-They did tag Stacey...Who knows do they risk losing after he finally seems to have turned his head on strait...Roy Williams?Does he have a big enough Season to warrant a franchise tag to keep him around?Tank Johnson (also doubtful minus a top 3 Defensive tackle season....Once again we did tag Stacey.Bobbie Williams(Just one of few Free Agents next year but no way I see him being tagged just resigning for near what he plays for now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat1975 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Hard to argue with anything you wrote there.They had their chance at market price and they blew it. This time Kris Brown is the initial catalyst that drove the price up, last time it was the Jaguars themselves.Katie and Troy negotiate like old people f**k. But they work cheap and are in the family.And the beat goes on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Hard to argue with anything you wrote there. I'll argue with every bit of it since the entire piece is based upon Graham leaving after this season...an outcome I'll bet won't happen. They'll tag him again. And if they do they'll actually pay the same or slightly less over the two year span than they'd pay if there was a long-term agreement. And on that last point, I'm guessing the Bengals want a long-term deal but simply won't match Opie's salary demands. So let's all agree to meet back here in a year, ehh? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Well they could end up tagging him next season too since it would still be reasonable price...Atm we don't have anyone else worth franchise but who knows by seasons end? Not only does it apppear likely no other player would be worthy of franchise tagging next season...if they play without a salary cap next season, as most think certain, teams are given two franchise tags to restrict player movement. Frankly, I think you can print Opie's real name on one of those tags right now....with the anticipated cost next year of about 2.9 million. Combine that with this years franchise tag price of 2.48 and the Bengals could and most likely will secure Graham's services for two seasons at 5.38 million, a 2.69 million dollar average. And that's almost dead on what Opie's market price is today, but more importantly......about 300k per season LESS than I'm guessing his asking price is. Just saying.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregstephens Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Hard to argue with anything you wrote there. I'll argue with every bit of it since the entire piece is based upon Graham leaving after this season...an outcome I'll bet won't happen. They'll tag him again. And if they do they'll actually pay the same or slightly less over the two year span than they'd pay if there was a long-term agreement. And on that last point, I'm guessing the Bengals want a long-term deal but simply won't match Opie's salary demands. So let's all agree to meet back here in a year, ehh?Alright, a year from now it is. No way they tag him twice. I believe they want Opie long term as well, but won't go to where it will cost to get there. This isn't a franchise QB we're dealing with here. They'll draft a college kicker, pay him less than half of the franchise price and not think a thing about it. From a football perspective, that is a decent option. Graham's a good kicker, and I like him, but he's not a must keep football-wise like Adam V.The whole point of my article is that his football skills combined with his goodwill he brings to the team increases his value to where if they actually intend to ink a long term deal, they should have got it done now and not waited a year, or two under your scenario, for him to have potentially stellar years while adding years to his body.Frankly, I hope your scenario plays out, because I'd like to see him stick around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 No way they tag him twice. I'll argue there's no way they won't. I believe they want Opie long term as well, but won't go to where it will cost to get there. Why wouldn't they? The cost for tagging Opie this season, 2.48 million, is actually less than the average he'd make if given a long-term contract. Furthermore, the cost of tagging Opie two years in a row is expected to average about 2.7 million, which once again is roughly the same or even slightly less than his estimated market price today. And remember, the Bengals have already agreed to pay Opie a salary remarkably close to either of those figues so it isn't a case of them refusing to go where it will cost in the future because the numbers are almost unchanged. Rather, it's a refusal to meet Opies long-term contract demands, either in regards to total salary or contract years. This isn't a franchise QB we're dealing with here. Exactly, and because we're talking about kickers the cost of franchising Opie for a 2nd season doesn't increase alarmingly. You might even call it a pittance in NFL terms. So the Bengals can very easily make exactly the same choice in regards to tagging Opie next season as they made this offseason. They'll draft a college kicker, pay him less than half of the franchise price and not think a thing about it. That sounds familiar. In fact, it's the exact same argument some people used this offseason to explain why the Bengals wouldn't franchise tag Opie. And yet....The whole point of my article is that his football skills combined with his goodwill he brings to the team increases his value to where if they actually intend to ink a long term deal, they should have got it done now and not waited a year, or two under your scenario...... Well according to Graham's camp there's been no progress made towards a long-term contract in over a year. So what's one more? Especially if waiting will only cost you a few hundred thousand under the worst case scenario, and potentially save you much more if Opie's salary demands really do approach my previously mentioned 3 million per season wild-ass speculation?Frankly, I hope your scenario plays out, because I'd like to see him stick around. I'm a huge Opie fan, but I can't make him sign a contract he has consistently refused, nor can I blame the Bengals for voluntarily refusing to offer a long-term contract that would almost certainly average more in yearly salary than they'd be forced to pay even when using the franchise tag twice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregstephens Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 No way they tag him twice. I'll argue there's no way they won't. I believe they want Opie long term as well, but won't go to where it will cost to get there. Why wouldn't they? The cost for tagging Opie this season, 2.48 million, is actually less than the average he'd make if given a long-term contract. Furthermore, the cost of tagging Opie two years in a row is expected to average about 2.7 million, which once again is roughly the same or even slightly less than his estimated market price today. And remember, the Bengals have already agreed to pay Opie a salary remarkably close to either of those figues so it isn't a case of them refusing to go where it will cost in the future because the numbers are almost unchanged. Rather, it's a refusal to meet Opies long-term contract demands, either in regards to total salary or contract years. This isn't a franchise QB we're dealing with here. Exactly, and because we're talking about kickers the cost of franchising Opie for a 2nd season doesn't increase alarmingly. You might even call it a pittance in NFL terms. So the Bengals can very easily make exactly the same choice in regards to tagging Opie next season as they made this offseason. They'll draft a college kicker, pay him less than half of the franchise price and not think a thing about it. That sounds familiar. In fact, it's the exact same argument some people used this offseason to explain why the Bengals wouldn't franchise tag Opie. And yet....The whole point of my article is that his football skills combined with his goodwill he brings to the team increases his value to where if they actually intend to ink a long term deal, they should have got it done now and not waited a year, or two under your scenario...... Well according to Graham's camp there's been no progress made towards a long-term contract in over a year. So what's one more? Especially if waiting will only cost you a few hundred thousand under the worst case scenario, and potentially save you much more if Opie's salary demands really do approach my previously mentioned 3 million per season wild-ass speculation?Frankly, I hope your scenario plays out, because I'd like to see him stick around. I'm a huge Opie fan, but I can't make him sign a contract he has consistently refused, nor can I blame the Bengals for voluntarily refusing to offer a long-term contract that would almost certainly average more in yearly salary than they'd be forced to pay even when using the franchise tag twice.I found the following on our buddy Kirkendall's CincyJungle:"The thing about Facebook, or Twitter, or any social networking site, is that when an athlete or celebrity have accounts that are available for public viewing, you're not always sure if that's really them. Blogger John Breech pulled a screen print from Shayne Graham's Facebook page, showing that is not a happy about not being given a contract extension. "How can a team give you the franchise tag showing your value to them, but not agree to a long term deal because they want a discount. Makes no sense. Uugggghh." Graham is playing on a one-year contract worth $2.483 million -- the average of the top-five paid place kickers in the league. Take it for what it is. Maybe it's Graham's Facebook page, maybe not. However, what's the point complaining about this on Facebook? And why is it shocking to professional athlete that a team asks for a "discount" -- isn't that what most teams do? Maybe this is why I'm not quite sure this is Graham's profile. It would seem uncharacteristic of him, from what we know. A man that does so much charity in the city bellowing about taking a discount just doesn't sit right. So take it for what it is. Maybe it's not him. Maybe it is."Agreeing with Kirk, who knows if this was really Graham's facebook, but if this is indeed Opie's facebook, it may support that this is a difference of negotiating philosophy between the two camps that isn't likely to dissipate with the passage of another year or two. Almost sounds more like a Willie Anderson scenario, with the exception that the Bengals wanted to move him off the starting spot.As you stated, however, we'll see how this plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat1975 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 That hot blonde he is with doesn't seem in character for Opie either, so the facebook whining wouldn't surprise me. HOF actually makes a good point. When it comes to contract negociations, the Bengals usually go the path of least resistance. For Opie, that would mean lowballing him, then tagging him next season. The tag will be more than what Opie wants now, but again, it's kicker money so who cares (I guess). Still, I wish we could get an Ozzie Newsome type in here. Its frustrating watching the Bengals stumble through these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Still, I wish we could get an Ozzie Newsome type in here. Isn't Ozzie Newsome the same guy who flatly refused to offer one of his free agents a contract comparable to the what that same young player could get on the open market....eventually losing his services to another team. And isn't that player, Jason Brown, the very same guy you repeatedly claim was the most coveted FA available and a player the Bengals should have broken the bank to sign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I wish we could get an Ozzie Newsome type in hereWell, not every organization can get advice and guidance as reliably valuable as what the folks at MomsLikeMe.com have come to expect from youNow.....about that nipple cream....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregstephens Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I wish we could get an Ozzie Newsome type in hereWell, not every organization can get advice and guidance as reliably valuable as what the folks at MomsLikeMe.com have come to expect from youNow.....about that nipple cream.......Hey, are you saying GHD is really ole' Bearcat?? I wondered where he went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat1975 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I wish we could get an Ozzie Newsome type in hereWell, not every organization can get advice and guidance as reliably valuable as what the folks at MomsLikeMe.com have come to expect from youNow.....about that nipple cream.......f'n mouthbreathers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat1975 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I wish we could get an Ozzie Newsome type in hereWell, not every organization can get advice and guidance as reliably valuable as what the folks at MomsLikeMe.com have come to expect from youNow.....about that nipple cream.......Hey, are you saying GHD is really ole' Bearcat?? I wondered where he went.The new board allows one name change per year. Looks like Groundhog Day again this year so I made the change. Same avatar, profile and everything else though. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 "How can a team give you the franchise tag showing your value to them, but not agree to a long term deal because they want a discount. Makes no sense. Uugggghh." That's the same stupid argument TJ Housh tried to make. In short, if you're willing to pay me this much one year, well why not pay that much EVERY year. Sheesh, do we even need to debate the reasons the above statement is ridiculous? I'll assume not. Furthermore, I'll argue the far more important statement made by Opie recently was in regards to how SUPRISED he was when given the franchise tag. Because I've always had a nagging suspicion that Opie wants out of Cincy and would have signed with another team, just as he did several years ago, if allowed to remain an UFA. And yeah, I think that's exactly what his agent and he were not only expecting to happen, but they were actively negotiating with that very goal in mind. Happily, the Bengals use of the franchise tag removes all short-term leverage Opie once had, and next years talks will begin under the very realistic threat of the Bengals using the tag again. Knowing all of the above to be true....who really expects this to be a one-and-done sorta thing? And if you somehow still do, for gods sake why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregstephens Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I wish we could get an Ozzie Newsome type in hereWell, not every organization can get advice and guidance as reliably valuable as what the folks at MomsLikeMe.com have come to expect from youNow.....about that nipple cream.......f'n mouthbreathers...LOL. Sorry I blew your cover there. I really didn't know.Now which of you guys is the new agreen? I haven't seen him since the format change I don't think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 The new board allows one name change per year. Looks like Groundhog Day again this year so I made the change. Same avatar, profile and everything else though. So, are you still using the ruined Bearcat tag when posting mothering tips on MomsLikeMe.com? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregstephens Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 "How can a team give you the franchise tag showing your value to them, but not agree to a long term deal because they want a discount. Makes no sense. Uugggghh." That's the same stupid argument TJ Housh tried to make. In short, if you're willing to pay me this much one year, well why not pay that much EVERY year. Sheesh, do we even need to debate the reasons the above statement is ridiculous? I'll assume not. Furthermore, I'll argue the far more important statement made by Opie recently was in regards to how SUPRISED he was when given the franchise tag. Because I've always had a nagging suspicion that Opie wants out of Cincy and would have signed with another team, just as he did several years ago, if allowed to remain an UFA. And yeah, I think that's exactly what his agent and he were not only expecting to happen, but they were actively negotiating with that very goal in mind. Happily, the Bengals use of the franchise tag removes all short-term leverage Opie once had, and next years talks will begin under the very realistic threat of the Bengals using the tag again. Knowing all of the above to be true....who really expects this to be a one-and-done sorta thing? And if you somehow still do, for gods sake why?Well, team track record for one. I don't believe the Bengals have ever tagged a guy twice, nor have they ever signed a long term deal with a tagged guy. Of course, if someone is aware of precedence that is slipping my mind, please let me know.Second, it just doesn't make sense football-wise to use the tag twice on a kicker. Didn't make a lot of sense the first time, really. However, it's not like tagging 32 or 33 year old Palmer twice just to milk him for what would likely be the last two years of his career.Like I said, I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong. I'm just glad we have something to toss around in the two weeks prior to training camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat1975 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Still, I wish we could get an Ozzie Newsome type in here. Isn't Ozzie Newsome the same guy who flatly refused to offer one of his free agents a contract comparable to the what that same young player could get on the open market....eventually losing his services to another team. And isn't that player, Jason Brown, the very same guy you repeatedly claim was the most coveted FA available and a player the Bengals should have broken the bank to sign?Yes he is. I don't agree with his decision, but based on his track record I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if I were a Ravens fan. Just like, based on Mike, Katie, and Troy's abysmal track record, even when they screw up contract negotiations for the kicker, I have to roast them because it is one screw up after another with them.Jason Brown > Cook and the RookIts the center position that is going to get Carson killed this season. What, you didn't want him? Oh yeah, you're in the camp that the "oline is good to go" I forgot. Wake up call coming in 3 weeks more or less isn't it? I'm hoping for a miracle. Like maybe we drafted the Ray Lewis of Centers. Hope or straight denial is all we have when it comes to the oline.Back to Newsome though...what exactly are you trying to say? You wouldn't want a guy with Newsomes track record here?Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat1975 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I wish we could get an Ozzie Newsome type in hereWell, not every organization can get advice and guidance as reliably valuable as what the folks at MomsLikeMe.com have come to expect from youNow.....about that nipple cream.......f'n mouthbreathers...LOL. Sorry I blew your cover there. I really didn't know.Now which of you guys is the new agreen? I haven't seen him since the format change I don't think.lol what cover? Even all the old posts changed with the name change. Avatar still the same as well. Groundhog Day seemed more 2009 Bengal Appropriate, sadly enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat1975 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 The new board allows one name change per year. Looks like Groundhog Day again this year so I made the change. Same avatar, profile and everything else though. So, are you still using the ruined Bearcat tag when posting mothering tips on MomsLikeMe.com?No one can be this stupid and be that big of a douche. It has to be an act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ickey44 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 The new board allows one name change per year. Looks like Groundhog Day again this year so I made the change. Same avatar, profile and everything else though. So, are you still using the ruined Bearcat tag when posting mothering tips on MomsLikeMe.com?No one can be this stupid and be that big of a douche. It has to be an act.Funny, that's what we all think every time you post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Still, I wish we could get an Ozzie Newsome type in here. Let's look at what Ozzie Newsome is doing in Baltimore right now. They were 27th in receiving last year. 192 receiving yards a game. Their stud, if you can call him that, Derrick Mason caught 80 passes for 1,037 yards. After him all they have is Mark Clayton, who caught 41 for 695 yards.Mason's 35 and wants an extension. Ozzie won't give it to him, so he just retired. Even with Mason, they desperately need receiving help, so why isn't Ozzie giving in?It's called hardball negotiating, and everyone in the league, except maybe your twin, Dan Snyder, does it. To mock the Blackburns for not bending over for a kicker is laughable. And to say that they, or the Bengals, negotiate like old people f**k, is evidence that you don't have any idea what you're talking about. If anything, the Bengals are a little too good at negotiating. Ask Hamilton County how their last round of negotiations went with the Bengals. Ask the IRS how their last round of negotiations with the Bengals went (hint: the IRS lost the negotiations, then Mike Brown handed their ass to them in Federal Court as well). Refusing to break the bank for a fair weather kicker who has proved to have a weak stomach in big games is evidence of football and business smarts, not weak negotiating.Seriously, among all the stupid things you've said in here, claiming that the Blackburns don't know how to negotiate contracts is the dumbest.Your habit of looking at any Bengals news and spinning it as "this proves the Bengals are stupid and cheap" proves only that you are a one trick pony without the intellect or the objectivity to accurately interpret what the f**k's going on the the world of professional football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 and dont forget, he still hasn't given me the nipple cream advice I asked for.Yeah.That bast*rd.oh andKatie and Troy negotiate like old people f**k. Well, those two are old, and they're married to each other, so I guess they both know how "old people f**k". The good news? NO MALE OFFSPRING that I know of! Yessssssssssss! The Brown name will finally die off!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregstephens Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Alright, I mean it. Bearcat is now groundhog day. Which one of you guys is agreen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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