Henry Focused, Ready for Season

[Wraith]

Agreen you said "2. No QB - Carson hasn't been the same since '05". I was just calling bullsh!t to that statement. Carson Palmer has not been the problem with this team, WRs running lazy patterns not blocking and not running out routes when they know they are not getting the ball (see 85), OLine injuries and other issues surrounding motivation and work ethic (see Jones, Levi), and an inconsistent running game have been the issues with the offense not to mention that they have been incredibly predictable scheme-wise. Carson has played at a level that would allow us to be in the playoffs every year if he had even a modicrum of help from the rest of his team. Call out your guy Agreen before you call out the QB, Chad has been tipping plays by not running out patterns, not blocking to help his teammates, and running lazy patterns which have led to INTs and missed first downs not to mention his dropped balls, Chad has done more to hurt this team than almost any other player over the last two seasons. WE had a consistent Running Game in 2005, we had WRs who were present in 2005, we had an OLine at the peak of its ability in 2005 AND we had a defense who was very adept at getting turnovers which gave our offense more favorable field positions, that more than Carson's level of play has led to better performance. We have a QB that, if the OLine gives him a little time, the WRs do their damn job, and we have a running game to balance out the equation, will win us plenty of games.

Stats don't mean SHIOT? This is a team game, how do you propose evaluating individual performance then? By your own argument, it take everyone working together to create a winning team. You can take Peyton Manning and put him on the 2008 Detroit Lions and they would still lose. Our QB has performed at a higher level than almost any other QB over the last 4 seasons, he just can't make this team a winner on his own and hopefully he has now has some help, pinning 2006, 2007, and particularly 2008 on the play of our QB is patently ridiculous and the STATS bear that out.

[ArmyBengal]

Here's the truth and I would assume that many fans feel the same way...

I miss the old Chad. You know, the one that played to the crowd throwing out footballs, staying at the stadium prepping for games, bringing the football team out of the dark times with some fun and laughter, and making it cool to be a Bengals fan again. Sure, I loved the antics when he scored, I'll admit that and have no issue with it.

But there's a problem now. That Chad is dead.

He's not the same guy who puts in time to get better when he's not here to go through the new stuff and be a mentor to the young WR's (no I don't care what his coach says). He doesn't play to the crowd anymore at all. Now he puts himself above all other things and has actually distanced himself from the fans. He can come back and say what he wants about "I hope the fans realize it's not personal" but it is. He made it that way and when he changed his stance on how he conducts himself and LIES to the organization, it affects the fans opinion. For him to not realize this is just ignorant.

I'm of the line of thought that if he brings it this year and helps the team, then great. I'll cheer the Bengals on. The Bengals, not Chad. The only thing I'll be hoping for is that he has a good enough season that we could get something in trade for him later in the year before the trade deadline if we are out of the playoff race or during the offseason.

No TJ, I have no trademark on the F*CK YOU CHAD, so feel free to use it at will. I'm just an "F" bomb kind of guy.

Call it the military mindset, call it what you want, it's just how I'm wired.

I miss that Chad too.. But somewhere througout all the losing and, I hate to say this, bungle-ness, the old Chad died.

And regardless of what the organization has or hasn't done, the one person that couldn't have kept that alive CHOSE not to.

It's not that it's "cool" to hate Chad, it's that the hate actually applies.

It's like the old saying that goes, "If the shoes fits, wear it". Chad needs to strap that on and take responsibility.

Sadly, that's something he's also failed at doing. I mean it when I say sadly...

[agreen_112]

Agreen you said "2. No QB - Carson hasn't been the same since '05". I was just calling bullsh!t to that statement. Carson Palmer has not been the problem with this team, WRs running lazy patterns not blocking and not running out routes when they know they are not getting the ball (see 85), OLine injuries and other issues surrounding motivation and work ethic (see Jones, Levi), and an inconsistent running game have been the issues with the offense not to mention that they have been incredibly predictable scheme-wise. Carson has played at a level that would allow us to be in the playoffs every year if he had even a modicrum of help from the rest of his team. Call out your guy Agreen before you call out the QB, Chad has been tipping plays by not running out patterns, not blocking to help his teammates, and running lazy patterns which have led to INTs and missed first downs not to mention his dropped balls, Chad has done more to hurt this team than almost any other player over the last two seasons. WE had a consistent Running Game in 2005, we had WRs who were present in 2005, we had an OLine at the peak of its ability in 2005 AND we had a defense who was very adept at getting turnovers which gave our offense more favorable field positions, that more than Carson's level of play has led to better performance. We have a QB that, if the OLine gives him a little time, the WRs do their damn job, and we have a running game to balance out the equation, will win us plenty of games.

Stats don't mean SHIOT? This is a team game, how do you propose evaluating individual performance then? By your own argument, it take everyone working together to create a winning team. You can take Peyton Manning and put him on the 2008 Detroit Lions and they would still lose. Our QB has performed at a higher level than almost any other QB over the last 4 seasons, he just can't make this team a winner on his own and hopefully he has now has some help, pinning 2006, 2007, and particularly 2008 on the play of our QB is patently ridiculous and the STATS bear that out.

That's right Wraith, it's a team game (including ownership and coaches). The Lions are far from a team. Any QB would struggle there. You're missing the point.

I am in no way "pinning" the blame on Palmer. If you can re-read my post, I put the blame solely on our offensive line. Our offensive line is Carson's problem (as well as Chad's problem) and has been SINCE 2005. I love Carson. I think he is in the top 5 of all NFL QB's. I'm not sure if you missunderstood me or what.

So, when I said "2. No QB" I mean that Chad hasn't had the same QB that he had all the way up to the end of the 2005 season. "No QB," as in some scrub backup that was out there last year. And why was this no name guy out there? BECAUSE OUR *** damn O-LINE SUCKED BALLS. FOR CHRIST SAKE, THEY ALMOST GOT PALMER KILLED LAST YEAR. HE BROKE HIS NOSE IN THE PRE-SEASON and GOT BANGED AROUND MORE THAN EVER!!!!

So let me break it down for you again.. If you have have crappy play from your O-Line, the QB will struggle (same with the RB, forgot to mention that but it's pretty obvious.) therefore, the WR's WILL struggle! The main reason I pointed this out was because someone said #85's production has been done for x amount of time... Yes, TJ had a decent year. He's a different type of receiver than Chad. Apples to Oranges.

Other than that, we agree on almost every thing you said, except for Chad.

[gregstephens]

So much to say. Greenie, you stated I probably liked the antics. I did...for awhile. When his creativity on his celebrations overtook his concentration on his game, I quit being a fan of those. They were a distraction to him and the team.

Also, it seems everyone, AB and greenie both included, admits THAT Chad is dead. Hence, justifying what I've been saying for over a year--he's Fredo!

So what are we arguing about?

[TJJackson]

Take a look at Chad and say he sucks.

*looks at Chad*

Ok, yeah, he sucks

You know damn well he is probably THE most talented player on this team (Palmer's up there too).

Uhm, no

I don't care if he is the greatest receiver who ever played in the NFL

100% talent means nothing if there is 0% effort on the field coupled with 100% unprofessional conduct

Actually, less than nothing because we are still stuck paying his worthless ass

[HoosierCat]

Give it up, Greenie. The haters will never change.

Last year it was "more TJ, less Chad."

This year it's "more Henry, less Chad."

Next year it will be "more [someone else], less Chad."

[Wraith]

Chad is the worst kind of problem.

He has immense talent, has never done anything off the field that would require the league get involved. You have built your offense around his talent and the production you were seeing from him in 2005 and 2006 but for the last two seasons he has been a distraction, a malcontent, and not done the things that made him successful both in the offseason and during the season. Chad has dropped numerous passes over the last two seasons because his head wasn't in the game. Chad has never been a leader in the locker room. Chad has never blocked. Chad for the last two seasons not run out routes where he wasn't going to get the ball which is critical to the success of the play because it takes two players away from the ball. The little things that TJ did and that Hines Ward does to make his team successful, Chad was unwilling to do. It is a major problem for this team.

If you want me to say it I will, the Cincinnati Bengals would be a better team if Chad was not on it. Whatever he gives you from a production standpoint does not exceed his distraction, his unwillingness to do the little things to make his team successful, and his piss poor attitude IMHO. I was angry they didn't take the Redskins offer last season, angrier they didn't use the Redskins offer to get something more from the Cowboys or Eagles. As TJ said on NFL Total Access, "why would you keep a guy on your team that does not want to be there, it affects everyone." Again, I will say as a manager, if I had an employee who didn't want to be there, who caused a problem every time you asked for a little extra effort, who didn't buy in to the team, you are much better off letting that person go than trying to force them to cooperate. I have lived through this as a manager and taken my lumps, so I know this first hand. I had a network engineer who was incredibly talented, who could make the network do things I could only dream of but he was such an issue to deal with that it caused problems with everyone in the organization. Every issue became a threat to resign, every request was a glare or an argument. Was I at fault in part for his attitude, absolutely. Are the Bengals at fault in part for Chad's attitude, absolutely. Nothing exists in a vacuum. But even though it decreased the talent level of my organization it was to the teams benefit as a whole to let this person find somewhere else to work. We parted amicably and I think we both learned from the situation (I know I did) but the team always comes first and if what is best for the team is a little pruning, so be it.

[gregstephens]

Give it up, Greenie. The haters will never change.

Last year it was "more TJ, less Chad."

This year it's "more Henry, less Chad."

Next year it will be "more [someone else], less Chad."

um hmm.

Notice the consistency of your formulas.

[ArmyBengal]

It's not a simple matter of just hating Chad. I've explained this. No one is doubting that Chad has "HAD" good seasons. As a matter of fact, I've argued on his behalf MANY times in recognizing he's the only guy to have led either his conference or the league in receiving yards for 5 straight seasons. That's something even Jerry Rice has never accomplished.

All of that aside, when was the last time Chad has done that ?? When has he put in the effort to be that player since then ?? What has changed with Chad ?? When has Chad told the truth in the last couple of seasons when it comes to the organization ??

THOSE are the things that have the fans "hating". Why is that do you think ?? Because Chad made himself lovable to the fans and then spit in their faces when he decided that his own best interest was more important than the teams success. After his contract was torn up and redone like 3 times, it still wasn't enough. Rosenwhore came in and hasn't made the situation better. He's made it worse for Chad.

Remember when Chad use to say the agent worked for him and things wouldn't change ?? What happened there ??

Bottomline, the fans feel betrayed by Chad, but are expected to just be ok with that, because he says it's just business. Bullsh*t !!!

More twinkies, less Chad. Yeah, I'd be ok with that...

[HoosierCat]

It's not a simple matter of just hating Chad.

Ah. Well, at least we've established that hating Chad is part of it. That's progress, I suppose.

[Bearcat1975]

It's not a simple matter of just hating Chad.

Ah. Well, at least we've established that hating Chad is part of it. That's progress, I suppose.

I'm curious as to what you think Chad will bring to the table this season.

[ArmyBengal]

It's not a simple matter of just hating Chad.

Ah. Well, at least we've established that hating Chad is part of it. That's progress, I suppose.

Of course it is and I've never denied that either. My point is, the fans of this team have a reason to do so and it's Chad's fault.

That is unless someone wants to argue that FACT.

[HoosierCat]

I'm curious as to what you think Chad will bring to the table this season.

I don't know, but I'd like to actually wait and see how things play out in the mandatories and training camp this summer before I chuck him over the side. There are a few (to me at least) interesting questions I have.

For one, everyone seems to gloss over the fact Chad was injured all last year. For another, his QB for much of the season was the much-derided Ryan Fitzpatrick. I have a hard time believing that a healthy Chad with Palmer behind center won't be better than last year, even if his attitude does stink.

Then there's the TJ factor. I've found myself wondering over the past couple of months just how much of Chad's whole 2008 "trade me" campaign was fueled by Housh. I know Rosenhaus is the usual whipping boy, but we know now that TJ was p*ssed off back in '06 when the Bengals didn't give him a big extension, too. The next offseason was when he started skipping voluntaries to (allegedly) spend more time with his family. And I keep remembering how last offseason, none worked harder (except Chad himself) to keep the Chad story front and center. How many times did we see TJ on NFL Network, talking about Chad, getting Chad on the phone for interviews, etc., and shaking his head sadly but sagely about the whole thing? Conventional wisdom was that TJ was just helping a buddy out, but it certainly didn't hurt TJ's desire for a big money contract elsewhere to paint himself as the soul of reason compared to Ocho Loco.

In short, I'd like to see what Chad is like without TJ around.

Finally, there's the whole Hard Knocks thing. We all know Chad loves the spotlight. If there's anything that can resurrect the old Chad, cameras 24/7 just might turn the trick.

[gregstephens]

I'm curious as to what you think Chad will bring to the table this season.

I don't know, but I'd like to actually wait and see how things play out in the mandatories and training camp this summer before I chuck him over the side. There are a few (to me at least) interesting questions I have.

For one, everyone seems to gloss over the fact Chad was injured all last year. For another, his QB for much of the season was the much-derided Ryan Fitzpatrick. I have a hard time believing that a healthy Chad with Palmer behind center won't be better than last year, even if his attitude does stink.

Then there's the TJ factor. I've found myself wondering over the past couple of months just how much of Chad's whole 2008 "trade me" campaign was fueled by Housh. I know Rosenhaus is the usual whipping boy, but we know now that TJ was p*ssed off back in '06 when the Bengals didn't give him a big extension, too. The next offseason was when he started skipping voluntaries to (allegedly) spend more time with his family. And I keep remembering how last offseason, none worked harder (except Chad himself) to keep the Chad story front and center. How many times did we see TJ on NFL Network, talking about Chad, getting Chad on the phone for interviews, etc., and shaking his head sadly but sagely about the whole thing? Conventional wisdom was that TJ was just helping a buddy out, but it certainly didn't hurt TJ's desire for a big money contract elsewhere to paint himself as the soul of reason compared to Ocho Loco.

In short, I'd like to see what Chad is like without TJ around.

Finally, there's the whole Hard Knocks thing. We all know Chad loves the spotlight. If there's anything that can resurrect the old Chad, cameras 24/7 just might turn the trick.

Holy cow, don't tell me I'm going to have to create a second 'All things Fredo' thread?

[BengalByTheBay]

Finally, there's the whole Hard Knocks thing. We all know Chad loves the spotlight. If there's anything that can resurrect the old Chad, cameras 24/7 just might turn the trick.

This is the real interesting offseason drama to me. It's a powder keg for sure, but I too believe that Chad has never seen himself as the bad guy through all this douchebaggery. Now, I won't say that's a reasonable viewpoint, only that he always seems shocked that anybody thinks he's the problem. If that is the case, cameras might appeal to his sense of trying to show what a great, misunderstood guy he is and how hard he works, yada, yada, yada. Maybe he'll put in the effort. Maybe he'll just put in enough effort to look like he's working when the cameras are on. Even so, that would probably be more than he did last preseason. I suppose it will be interesting and, like a sheep, I will have to activate HBO for a couple months. Damn, I kept telling myself I wouldn't buy into this garbage.

Oh yeah, and it will be interesting to see whether Henry remains as vapid as those great interviews his rookie season. Henry, Henry, Henry.....that's all anybody wants to talk about.

[Wraith]

Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results."

[agreen_112]

It's not a simple matter of just hating Chad.

Ah. Well, at least we've established that hating Chad is part of it. That's progress, I suppose.

Of course it is and I've never denied that either. My point is, the fans of this team have a reason to do so and it's Chad's fault.

That is unless someone wants to argue that FACT.

Sorry Army but the fans would disagree... I would say that the majority of fans here in Cincy want Chad to stay. We support him. MB is wrong here, not Chad.

[agreen_112]

I'm curious as to what you think Chad will bring to the table this season.

I don't know, but I'd like to actually wait and see how things play out in the mandatories and training camp this summer before I chuck him over the side. There are a few (to me at least) interesting questions I have.

For one, everyone seems to gloss over the fact Chad was injured all last year. For another, his QB for much of the season was the much-derided Ryan Fitzpatrick. I have a hard time believing that a healthy Chad with Palmer behind center won't be better than last year, even if his attitude does stink.

Then there's the TJ factor. I've found myself wondering over the past couple of months just how much of Chad's whole 2008 "trade me" campaign was fueled by Housh. I know Rosenhaus is the usual whipping boy, but we know now that TJ was p*ssed off back in '06 when the Bengals didn't give him a big extension, too. The next offseason was when he started skipping voluntaries to (allegedly) spend more time with his family. And I keep remembering how last offseason, none worked harder (except Chad himself) to keep the Chad story front and center. How many times did we see TJ on NFL Network, talking about Chad, getting Chad on the phone for interviews, etc., and shaking his head sadly but sagely about the whole thing? Conventional wisdom was that TJ was just helping a buddy out, but it certainly didn't hurt TJ's desire for a big money contract elsewhere to paint himself as the soul of reason compared to Ocho Loco.

In short, I'd like to see what Chad is like without TJ around.

Finally, there's the whole Hard Knocks thing. We all know Chad loves the spotlight. If there's anything that can resurrect the old Chad, cameras 24/7 just might turn the trick.

Ryan Fitzpatrick, thank you.. I couldn't remember his name for anything. That should tell you something (CHAD HAD NO QB!!!).

It's funny because I was going to say the EXACT same thing about the HBO show and how it could help to bring Chad back to life.. Not only the cameras, but the draft, and the Free Agent signings may help to resurrect the old Chad. Maybe he will see that MB got his point that he will lose ALL of his stars and keep losing them (Palmer will be next) if he continues to screw his players and fans out of a chance for a SB.

[HoosierCat]

Einstein defined insanity as "doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results."

Well, that's my point: circumstances have changed, drastically.

In 2008, Chad was coming off a good season. There was trade interest. He went on a trade me campaign, aided and abetted (and perhaps used) by his l'il buddy TJ. He didn't work out, and let an ankle injury linger. He went to war with the team, and vice-versa, and both sides ended up looking stupid.

Cue 2009. Chad had a lousy year last year. There was no trade market at all. Neither he nor the team have had much to say about each other, and both sides are looking to burnish their images. Chad, by all reports, has been working out this offseason, is in good shape, and the shoulder injury has apparently healed.

Might Chad still be an ass? Sure. But enough has changed that I'm willing to wait and see.

[gregstephens]

It's not a simple matter of just hating Chad.

Ah. Well, at least we've established that hating Chad is part of it. That's progress, I suppose.

Of course it is and I've never denied that either. My point is, the fans of this team have a reason to do so and it's Chad's fault.

That is unless someone wants to argue that FACT.

Sorry Army but the fans would disagree... I would say that the majority of fans here in Cincy want Chad to stay. We support him. MB is wrong here, not Chad.

I would take any bet on that issue you wanted to throw up. You take a survey at the opening game at PBS, after the game when Fredo's dropped three passes, blown two routes and thrown a temper tantrum at Carson, I think you'd come up short on that one.

[gregstephens]

Keep in mind, greenie, I still love you like a brother.

Of course, I haven't spoken to my brother in ten years, but...

[agreen_112]

It's not a simple matter of just hating Chad.

Ah. Well, at least we've established that hating Chad is part of it. That's progress, I suppose.

Of course it is and I've never denied that either. My point is, the fans of this team have a reason to do so and it's Chad's fault.

That is unless someone wants to argue that FACT.

Sorry Army but the fans would disagree... I would say that the majority of fans here in Cincy want Chad to stay. We support him. MB is wrong here, not Chad.

I would take any bet on that issue you wanted to throw up. You take a survey at the opening game at PBS, after the game when Fredo's dropped three passes, blown two routes and thrown a temper tantrum at Carson, I think you'd come up short on that one.

Your so biased man.. How about he catches 2 TD's and goes 145 yrds on 8 catches. The script would be flipped.... No, I'm saying right now, today. Go do you little survey and I would bet the bank that the majority of Cincy wants Chad to stay.

Just a debate

[Wraith]

Which bank...nowadays you can't be too careful

[agreen_112]

Which bank...nowadays you can't be too careful

True that... My bank roll isn't much anyway. My stocks aren't worth crap and my 401k is half of what it was a year ago.... How about we bet a steak dinner? Outback special baby!!

[TJJackson]

[i would say that the majority of fans here in Cincy want Chad to stay.

You'd say it, and you'd be wrong, and that's what we're used to here on Bengalszone....if you write/say x, x is generally incorrect