Andre Smith fires Rick Smith

[BengalByTheBay]

I can't say I'm excited by all this continued weirdness. The one thing that makes sense to me is that Smith got used by his agent and he's probably a sleaze. That doesn't tell me a whole lot about Smith other than that he isn't the sharpest pencil in the box. Then again, I think I knew that already. We shall see.....

[gregstephens]

My take:

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-7774-Ci...ous-distraction

I'm not siding with Priority on this. I ultimately don't care. It seems like a decision that might get Andre and the team off to a bad start, however.

[Bearcat1975]

let's all just hope that stuff saying "that Andre Smith doesn’t have high character, isn’t hard working, and isn’t honest." isn't true...

Well we know he doesn't have high character, because no young 20-something has any character yet, much less "high character."

We hope he is hard working, but it seems like he is not.

I doubt he is honest, because that goes in line with character. Perhaps there is something inside him that strives to be honest.

That's all we can hope for at this point from Andre.

[blueridge]

I can't say I'm excited by all this continued weirdness. The one thing that makes sense to me is that Smith got used by his agent and he's probably a sleaze. That doesn't tell me a whole lot about Smith other than that he isn't the sharpest pencil in the box. Then again, I think I knew that already. We shall see.....

No, maybe not the sharpest. And 22. Jesus, when I think of the idiotic and awkward things I did at that age I sometimes have to sit down and wonder. And no one was publicly scrutinizing or writing about me. I got off easy. Andre Smith will not.

[blueridge]

let's all just hope that stuff saying "that Andre Smith doesn’t have high character, isn’t hard working, and isn’t honest." isn't true...

Well we know he doesn't have high character, because no young 20-something has any character yet, much less "high character."

We hope he is hard working, but it seems like he is not.

I doubt he is honest, because that goes in line with character. Perhaps there is something inside him that strives to be honest.

That's all we can hope for at this point from Andre.

Are you an idiot, or what?

[Bearcat1975]

let's all just hope that stuff saying "that Andre Smith doesn’t have high character, isn’t hard working, and isn’t honest." isn't true...

Well we know he doesn't have high character, because no young 20-something has any character yet, much less "high character."

We hope he is hard working, but it seems like he is not.

I doubt he is honest, because that goes in line with character. Perhaps there is something inside him that strives to be honest.

That's all we can hope for at this point from Andre.

Are you an idiot, or what?

Is there something you disagree with, or are you just doing the general douche thing?

[Bearcat1975]

There's something I want to say to you. And I want you to listen very closely, because it's very important...

[Pidge]

let's all just hope that stuff saying "that Andre Smith doesn’t have high character, isn’t hard working, and isn’t honest." isn't true...

I'm inclined to believe it is not true. He's a churchgoing guy who is very close to his very large family. Never a drug or alcohol issue, never in trouble with the law, never anything.

Every issue that is supposedly a red flag has to do with agents. This latest guy at Priority saying "Andre is of low character", makes me laugh. Only someone as stupid as Florio would fall for that line. That statement can be interpreted as "I can't make the approximately one million dollars I would have made for two weeks work negotiating Andre's first contract." Of course this agent is pissed at Andre. But it's no red flag to me.

The other red flag that supposedly showed his character was his suspension from the team for their bowl game due to his contact with an agent. He broke an NCAA rule. That doesn't show low character. The NCAA has a bunch of stupid rules that exist to basically keep their labor (the players) as unpaid chattel while they (the NCAA) make millions off tv revenue and bowl games.

Screw the NCAA, they are taking advantage of these kids just like the agents are. The rule Andre broke is essentially a rule that says, "You can't start taking advantage of this kid until we are done taking advantage of him. Stay away until we are finished profiting from his free labor." I love college football, but it is a bulls**t system.

The final "red flag" was his performance at, and quick exit from, the combine. That is a huge red flag - a red flag regarding the agent, not the player. That agent should have known how to get a first round candidate ready for the combine. But since he's never represented a first rounder before, he screwed it up.

This kid seems to be a naive, good kid. He'll learn. When he's been in the league a year and become friends with older players, he won't be so naive anymore.

Beautifully put. Agree with every word.

[ArmyBengal]

let's all just hope that stuff saying "that Andre Smith doesn’t have high character, isn’t hard working, and isn’t honest." isn't true...

Well we know he doesn't have high character, because no young 20-something has any character yet, much less "high character."

We hope he is hard working, but it seems like he is not.

I doubt he is honest, because that goes in line with character. Perhaps there is something inside him that strives to be honest.

That's all we can hope for at this point from Andre.

Honestly dude, I couldn't disagree more with every bit of your post.

I know 17 year olds that have had higher character than some 40 year olds I have met in my years, so you are guessing.

Yes, we hope he's hard working, but how does it seem like he's not ?? Every bit of news you hear from camp has Andre as not only a hard worker, but very humble and taking coaching from everyone around him to include players he will surely make more than. How can you doubt he's honest ?? Any reason why you would make such a broad based comment ??

That's not all we can hope for either. Based upon everything we've seen and heard from him going through his practices to this point has people only speaking about how they can envision him being a pro bowl RT for many years to come. That and having him blow people off the line while clearing lanes for the running game is something else that I will be hoping for every Sunday.

Hell, even Florio (who most hate) even acknowledged the fact that minus the ill advised shirtless 40, this guy was considered the #1 overall pick in the draft. I just can't wait until people that have never seen him play a game see what he's going to be able to do for our O-line. Crow will be served in large quantities...

EDIT: You also don't become one of the highest rated OT's that dominates in the SEC by NOT being a hard worker...

[Bearcat1975]

I know 17 year olds that have had higher character than some 40 year olds I have met in my years,

I suspect you are confusing "character" with other admirable traits you have observed. 17 years just isn't enough, in my opinion.

[ArmyBengal]

I know 17 year olds that have had higher character than some 40 year olds I have met in my years,

I suspect you are confusing "character" with other admirable traits you have observed. 17 years just isn't enough, in my opinion.

No, with better than 19 years in the Army, I KNOW character when I see it and I will stand pat on what I do and don't observe from these young kids. You go ahead and keep suspecting though. What is your opinion based on that 17 years "just isn't enough" ??

Andre Smith may or may not be the "high character" guy, but I don't know that for certain as my only basis for an opinion has been given by media sources. I will simply go with what I do know for certain about him and that is he has been a dominant OT and should provide us long term success on our o-line.

[Walrus]

What about the part of the story where Paul Alexander, his position coach and Assistant Head Coach of his team, strongly encouraged him to stick with Priority. Apparently Alexander holds Rick Smith and Priority in high enough regard to insert his own hand into the contraversy...

Other than that, I'm on the same page with most of you who don't find this particularly concerning. But that's mostly out of ignorance -- of Andre, who may or may not be a good, hard-working guy, and of Keels, who may or may not feel it is important that his client make it to camp on time.

[ArmyBengal]

I see the team as having more of a comfort zone with Priority Sports having dealt with them in the past and their record of getting their players (especially high picks) into camp on time, where they don't have that same feeling with Keels. We will see...

[Bearcat1975]

What is your opinion based on that 17 years "just isn't enough" ??

"We were talking before about character. You were asking me about character. And we were speaking of faces. But the question is much deeper than that. The question is, do you have any character at all? And if you want my honest opinion Bob (Mr. 17 Year Old), you do not. For the simple reason that you don’t regret anything yet.

You’ve already done plenty of things to regret. You just don't know what they are. It's when you discover them. When you see the folly in something you've done. And you wish you had it to do over. But you know you can't because it's too late. So you pick that thing up and you carry it with you. To remind you that life goes on. The world will spin without you. You really don't matter in the end. Then you will attain character because honesty will reach out from inside and tattoo itself all across your face. Until that day however, you cannot expect to go beyond a certain point." -BK

...I don't know how to put it any better than that. Again, I think you are confusing good personality traits such as "honesty," "dedication," and "charisma" with "character." Character is something that can only be obtained with age, experience, and honesty. And you are right, many 40 year olds are sorely lacking in character.

But while you may have seen some good people cross your ranks over the years, at 17, one can only reach a certain point. Character, at such a young age, is simply is not on the table yet, no matter how good the person is.

[BengalByTheBay]

...I don't know how to put it any better than that. Again, I think you are confusing good personality traits such as "honesty," "dedication," and "charisma" with "character." Character is something that can only be obtained with age, experience, and honesty. And you are right, many 40 year olds are sorely lacking in character.

Having read this, I did what I typically do when somebody "defines" a term using their own subjective opinion and I say to myself "that's BS" -- I looked it up. Good news -- your record of being consistently wrong remains unblemished.

Character is, in fact, "one of the attributes or features that make up and distinguish the individual" and/or "moral excellence and firmness." Nothing about age at all.

[HairOnFire]

What about the part of the story where Paul Alexander, his position coach and Assistant Head Coach of his team, strongly encouraged him to stick with Priority. Apparently Alexander holds Rick Smith and Priority in high enough regard to insert his own hand into the contraversy...

Yup, it's pretty unusual for any coach to insert himself into a debate about which agency should represent any player. So there's that. But how do we get from judging the merits of an agent to a conclusion about the playing skills and work ethic of the prospects they represent?

I said it before and I'll repeat it now. Andre Smith needs a hug. For reasons only he can say he's repeatedly waffled in regards to Keels ability to represent him, but he keeps going back to Keels, apparently because he likes and trusts him better than those other agents he's met in the following months. Alright, opinion noted. But what does any of this have to do with Andre Smith's work ethic?

Finally, if Smith does holdout am I to automatically assume he wouldn't have if represented by Priority Sports? Wasn't it always assumed a holdout of some length was a high probability simply due to the Bengals 6th overall draft position?

[COB]

You’ve already done plenty of things to regret. You just don't know what they are. It's when you discover them. When you see the folly in something you've done. And you wish you had it to do over. " -BK

Whatever Hollywood screenplay writer hacked that out for Danny DeVito to read was stupid. He just described the personality trait commonly referred to as perspective. And he's right, it is pretty much impossible to get without a few years in your rearview mirror.

I know all this stuff is pretty subjective, but the mention of character reminded me of a story from Iraq that I read a few months ago. Two American soldiers and several Iraqi soldiers were guarding the entrance to an American military installation.

There were a lot of soldiers inside, so it was considered a target. A truck approached the installation gates at a high rate of speed. It went around the remote barrier and hauls ass right toward the gate that is being guarded.

The Iraqi soldiers all bailed and ran like hell. The two American soldiers jumped in front of the gate and began firing their weapons at the driver of the truck. They killed the driver. This caused him to release the deadman switch on the wheel, and the truck bomb exploded, killing both soldiers. But their selfless action saved many many lives that would have been lost had the truck gotten through the gate.

I would argue those two youngsters displayed tremendous character. I would also argue that a whole lot more perspective would not have improved that character at all. In fact, more perspective may have had those guys questioning the worth of the mission, the value of their own lives, the extent to which they want to commit themselves to their duty, etc.

[derekshank]

You’ve already done plenty of things to regret. You just don't know what they are. It's when you discover them. When you see the folly in something you've done. And you wish you had it to do over. " -BK

Whatever Hollywood screenplay writer hacked that out for Danny DeVito to read was stupid. He just described the personality trait commonly referred to as perspective. And he's right, it is pretty much impossible to get without a few years in your rearview mirror.

It's actually a pretty good movie... but it's funny that it;s being used to argue the definition of a word in place of the dictionary. The movie had a point to make, and it was a good one, but you can't use a line from a movie to argue for the definition of a word... and nor is that screenplay writer's opinion about "character" any more relevant than anyone else's here.

I've noted several times when watching that movie that I thought "character" was the wrong word to use at that point, because the assumption is that you can't achieve character until you are able to look back on your mistakes... which is silly. But that's why I don't use movies to define words for me.

Just like I don't use the Little Rascals as proof that the word "romantical" should be in the dictionary.

[Pidge]

Character has nothing to do with age. What an asinine argument.

[ArmyBengal]

Character is something that can only be obtained with age

Character, at such a young age, is simply is not on the table yet, no matter how good the person is.

Wrong and wrong on both accounts.

Character is defined as attributes or features that make up an individual. Those attributes are inherent in nature and have nothing to do with the age of the person.

Attributes such as loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honesty, integrity, and personal courage. It's things like those mentioned that produce an individual of "high character" and something you DO see in 17 year olds.

Now to relate this to the thread, we have NO IDEA what was or wasn't taught to young Mr. Smith or how that has affected his "growing up" to this point. I will say again though, you don't become one of the best in the nation at what you do without some sort of value system behind you. I don't see his selection of agents having anything to do with any of that or how he's going to produce on the field...

[whizzo]

Character is something that can only be obtained with age

Character, at such a young age, is simply is not on the table yet, no matter how good the person is.

now that's just ridiculous.

[Bearcat1975]

I would argue those two youngsters displayed tremendous character. I would also argue that a whole lot more perspective would not have improved that character at all. In fact, more perspective may have had those guys questioning the worth of the mission, the value of their own lives, the extent to which they want to commit themselves to their duty, etc.

What you are describing is "bravery." Teenagers think they are invincible and that they are always right, among other character flaws. You are right about perspective, which is a necessary part of character. 17 year olds most certainly DO NOT have perspective. They simply do not have enough of a body of work to go on.

So I would argue that with more perspective, those two kids might have run away like the Iraqis. If they did, would that mean that they suddenly do not have character?

You can talk chivalry, bravery, honesty, dedication, and any other personality trait. But none of those traits by themselves or even all together can equal character, without years as a multiplier.

Character must age like fine wine. 17 years old just won't cut it.

And as for Andre Smith? Please...

[Bearcat1975]

Attributes such as loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honesty, integrity, and personal courage. It's things like those mentioned that produce an individual of "high character" and something you DO see in 17 year olds.

What you are describing is valor combined with the feeling that you are invincible.

Which has nothing to do with character, in my opinion.

Thing is...''character" really is a subjective term, much like "probable cause" or "reasonable." Some people even equate honesty with character, whereas I belive that honesty is more of a character enabler when coupled with perspective.

[HoosierCat]

What comes (sometimes) with age is wisdom, not (necessarily) character. The two are related; wisdom helps to inform character the same way that experience helps to inform learning.

Smith may lack character. That's tough to say at this point. As for wisdom and experience, he's definitely short in both departments, but so are 99.9% of guys in his shoes.

Is it bad advice (and the lack of wisdom to see it as such) and a lack of experience that prompted the bait-and-switch with agents?

Or, deep down inside, is Smith just a jerk?

I don't know the answer, but we're going to find out. In the meantime, in either case, it doesn't bode well for getting him into camp anything like on time. Like Hair, I had a holdout factored in. It will probably be longer now.

[Kazkal]

Or, deep down inside, is Smith just a jerk?

Well seems like he's loyal either way smith is going to get payed top dollar but apparently felt attached to keels.