Tom Brady Might Be Greater, But Carson Palmer is a Better Quarterback

[Ox]

Tom Brady Might Be Greater, But Carson Palmer is a Better Quarterback

Everyone these days have become so fixated with comparing Tom Brady and Peyton Manning that I feel there has been another quarterback who is often overlooked. Many of you might think I've lost it and perhaps I am getting a bit crazy in my old age but I have come to the conclusion that Carson Palmer (yes Carson Palmer) is a better quarterback then Tom Brady.

Now don't worry, I did not start writing this article without any point and it really isn't meant to bash Tom Brady either. It just occurred to me that often times the line between "greatness" and actual god given ability can sometimes be blurred. Thus I feel is the case if one were to compare Tom Brady and Carson Palmer.

To those who feel that this debate should not even be made, such a comparison was not uncommon after the 2006 season. Carson Palmer at that time was red-hot and Tom Brady had not even made the Pro Bowl. He was given the invitation to come play as a reserve but instead opted to play in a celebrity golf tournament.

Carson Palmer, on the other hand, played and earned MVP honors.

So please, save your Pro Bowl bashing for another time because the comparison between Brady and Palmer should be the main focus here.

Since that time in 2006, Tom Brady went on to have one of the greatest seasons in NFL history.

This season both quarterbacks sustained season-ending injuries. Tom Brady's knee was torn up and Carson Palmer ripped a tendon and ligaments from the bone of his elbow.

So essentially, Tom Brady went out on top and Carson Palmer went out on the bottom which would lead many mis-guided fans to believe that this comparison does not have the merit to be made.

Well Brady-faithful, it does.

For a moment now please analyze the title of my article. Strange how I proclaimed Tom Brady to be greater but insisted that Carson Palmer to be better. Let me explain what I meant by that.

Greatness can be analyzed in many different ways. Usually people will view a great quarterback as someone who has won a lot of Super Bowls, put up a lot of big numbers, broken a lot of records and won a lot of games.

Any combination of the above mentioned usually translates to a quarterback's title of greatness.

Certainly, this is something that Tom Brady has personified. He is the biggest winner of our generation, has put up good numbers and has awards to boot. Simply put, Tom Brady is great and a first-ballot Hall of Famer in my opinion.

So how is Carson Palmer better?

Well you have to think about the factors that would make one quarterback better then another. If I were to ask you what makes Tom Brady better, you would probably say something along these lines...

1) Tom Brady is a winner.

Yes, Tom Brady is a winner. He's won three Super Bowls and has the best winning percentage in NFL history. At the same time, you have to consider the circumstances that surrounds those victories.

He's played with one of the greatest coaches of all time. Every coordinator to come through New England was so good they became head coaches elsewhere. He's played with a top-tier defense for most of his career. His offensive line has been one of the best of the generation. He's played in the weakest division in modern memory.

Those are all things to consider when taking into account everything Brady has accomplished.

Carson Palmer on the other hand was drafted by the worst team in the past 20 years. You couldn't name one coordinator to have coached in Cincinnati. He's played with a relatively weak offensive line and an atrocious defense.

The circumstances are monumentally different therefore the "team" accomplishments are going to be vastly different as well.

2) Tom Brady has a stronger arm?

Does he? If you've watched both players play you'd probably have to give the slight advantage to Palmer in this department. Brady has a great arm but he is not as good of a natural pocket-passer as Palmer.

3) Tom Brady has to be more accurate.

Actually, he's less accurate. Brady's career completion percentage is 63.0% and Palmer's is 63.7%.

4) Tom Brady has played with less quality receivers.

You'd think because Chad Ocho Cinco and T.J.Houshmandzadeh havebeen to the Pro Bowl that Carson has played with better receivers right?

Chad Ocho Cinco was a second round draft selection. He did have success before Palmer became the starting quarterback but he played his best years under Carson Palmer.

T.J. Houshmandzadeh was a seventh round selection with absolutely no productivity before playing with Palmer. As a matter of fact, he never had more then 500 yards and one touchdown before playing with Palmer.

Now lets take a look at the statistical comparrison of both quarterback over the span of their first four active seasons...

Tom Brady (2001-2004): 1,247 of 2,015 (61.8%) for 13,919 yards, 97 touchdowns, 52 interceptions and 43 fumbles. Quarterback Rating: 87.7

Carson Palmer (2004-2007): 1,305 of 2,036 (64.09%) for 14,899 yards, 104 touchdowns, 63 interceptions and 27 fumbles. Quarterback rating: 90.12

Now could you imagine how much more impressive Palmer statistics would have been had he played for a team that was even half good?

So what you have here is a comparison certainly worthy of mention. Tom Brady is greater for all the things he has done over his successful career. Carson Palmer is better for having a stronger arm, being more accurate, and just being the better overall football player.

If Tom Brady played for the Bengals and Carson Palmer played for the Patriots, Carson Palmer would be going to the Hall of Fame (which he might some day anyway) and Tom Brady would be a good quarterback on a losing team.

People simply have too much difficulty in separating team accolades with individual talent. Tom Brady has plenty of impressive accolades that will one day get him enshrined in Canton but Carson Palmer has more individual talent.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/123612-...ter-quarterback

[Thurmanation]

I've argued this with friends the past 4 years. No matter what Tom will always be considered better. Unless we somehow win the Superbowl the next 4 straight years.

[Kazkal]

Great article glad to see Carson getting some love,I get tired of hearing other teams fans saying Carson is a backup on most other teams in the nfl or not even top a top 10 quarterback it's like your joking right?

[Clackwoods]

Great article glad to see Carson getting some love,I get tired of hearing other teams fans saying Carson is a backup on most other teams in the nfl or not even top a top 10 quarterback it's like your joking right?

Yea, I just hope we give him some talent and let him show what he can do. I really hope he returns from injury as well. Back in 2005 when we were in the playoffs he was being mentioned as a top 3 qb and being compared to Peyton Manning.

[Kazkal]

Great article glad to see Carson getting some love,I get tired of hearing other teams fans saying Carson is a backup on most other teams in the nfl or not even top a top 10 quarterback it's like your joking right?

Yea, I just hope we give him some talent and let him show what he can do. I really hope he returns from injury as well. Back in 2005 when we were in the playoffs he was being mentioned as a top 3 qb and being compared to Peyton Manning.

Surround him with talent but still lose sure carson wants see players that improve the team most rather then his stats.

Our defense had a good year but we should wanna improve that rather then say well that was good enough!but at the same time we should ignore the offense hence why I feel take the best player that will help the team...If it's a Defensive End to give much needed a Passrush,A passblocker to protect carsons blind side or a Force in the middle of our defense.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I don't see anything changing and all you can hope for is that the 2005 schedule repeats itself again next year, and that Palmer doesn't get destroyed yet again by poorly coached lineman. I don't remember off-hand, but hasn't Palmer only finished something like 2-3 years here without being hurt?

[HAPPYJAQ]

I might be a homer, but I'd only take Peyton Manning ahead of a healthy Carson Palmer. I watched the replay of the Broncos-Bengals game in '06 and Simms said that he was one of the most accurate QB's he had ever seen, at that point. He's only 29 and still should have 8-10 productive seasons left, barring injury. I didn't realize the stats on T.J. related to playing with Carson (further proof that we don't need to overpay for him).

[Kazkal]

I don't see anything changing and all you can hope for is that the 2005 schedule repeats itself again next year, and that Palmer doesn't get destroyed yet again by poorly coached lineman. I don't remember off-hand, but hasn't Palmer only finished something like 2-3 years here without being hurt?

Well having his leg blown up in the playoff game was behind one best Olines in the NFL at the time...Last year on other hand was direct result of a horrible Oline..

[ArmyBengal]

Don't get me wrong because I love Carson, but I'm not buying. Prior to the knee injury, you may have been able to make the argument that Carson was at that level of play and he may be again, but since the injury Carson just hasn't looked the same. Watch Brady, he seems cool and collected in the pocket even with people in his face. Carson just doesn't seem to have the same demeanor. I guess with a sh*tty o-line that gets you killed that will happen, but if we are asking, that's what I see.

Give Carson the protection to do his thing and maybe the arguement can be made again, but not right now.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I guess with a sh*tty o-line that gets you killed that will happen

Here's a list of sacks allowed by position for the 2008 season:

Left Tackle

1. Ryan Clady (Broncos) 0.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

2. Michael Roos (Titans) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

3. Tra Thomas (Eagles) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

3. Orlando Pace (Rams) 2.0 sacks allowed (14 starts)

5. Jake Long (Dolphins) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

6. Jordan Gross (Panthers) 3.0 sacks allowed (15 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

6. Jammal Brown (Saints) 3.0 sacks allowed (15 starts)

6. Jared Gaither (Ravens) 3.0 sacks allowed (15 starts)

6. Marcus McNeill (Chargers) 3.0 sacks allowed (14 starts)

6. Tony Ugoh (Colts) 3.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)

6. Chris Samuels (Redskins) 3.0 sacks allowed (12 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

6. Todd Weiner (Falcons) 3.0 sacks allowed (11 starts)

13. Walter Jones (Seahawks) 3.5 sacks allowed (12 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

14. D’Brickashaw Ferguson (Jets) 4.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

14. Bryant McKinnie (Vikings) 4.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)

14. Max Starks (Steelers) 4.0 sacks allowed (11 starts)

17. Joe Thomas (Browns) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

17. Branden Albert (Cheifs) 4.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)

19. Levi Brown (Bengals) 5.5 sacks allowed (11 starts)

20. Mike Gandy (Cardinals) 6.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)

21. David Diehl (Giants) 6.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

22. Flozell Adams (Cowboys) 7.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)

23. Khalif Barnes (Jags) 7.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

23. Matt Light (Pats) 7.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

23. Chad Clifton (Packers) 7.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)

23. Kwame Harris (Raiders) 7.5 sacks allowed (11 starts)

27. Joe Staley (49ers) 8.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

28. Donald Penn (Bucs) 8.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

29. Jeff Backus (Lions) 9.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)

30. John St. Clair (Bears) 9.75 sacks allowed (16 starts)

31. Duane Brown (Texans) 11.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

31. Jason Peters (Bills) 11.5 sacks allowed (13 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

Left Guard

1. Kris Dielman (Chargers) 0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

1. Charlie Johnson (Colts) 0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

1. David Baas (49ers) 0 sacks allowed (9 starts)

4. Carl Nicks (Saints) 0.5 sacks allowed (13 starts)

5. Todd Herremans (Eagles) 0.75 sacks allowed (15 starts)

6. Brian Waters (Chiefs) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

7. Josh Beekman (Bears) 1.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)

8. Robert Gallery (Raiders) 1.75 sacks allowed (16 starts)

8. Reggie Wells (Cardinals) 1.75 sacks allowed (16 starts)

10. Eugene Amano (Titans) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

10. Chris Chester (Ravens) 2.0 sacks allowed (11 starts)

12. Chester Pitts (Texans) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

12. Ben Hamilton (Broncos) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

12. Travelle Wharton (Panthers) 2.5 sacks allowed (14 starts)

12. Jacob Bell (Rams) 2.5 sacks allowed (13 starts)

12. Jeff Smiley (Dolphins) 2.5 sacks allowed (12 starts)

17. Rich Seubert (Giants) 3.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

17. Pete Kendall (Redskins) 3.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

17. Justin Blalock (Falcons) 3.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

27. Eric Steinbach (Browns) 3.0 sacks allowed (14 starts)

21. Floyd Womack (Seahawks) 3.5 sacks allowed (14 starts)

22. Edwin Mulitalo (Lions) 4.25 sacks allowed (11 starts)

23. Arron Sears (Bucs) 4.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)

23. Uche Nwaneri (Jags) 4.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)

23. Cory Procter (Cowboys) 4.5 sacks allowed (11 starts)

26. Logan Mankins (Pats) 5.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

26. Andrew Whitworth (Bengals) 5.0 sacks allowed (10 starts)

28. Daryn Colledge (Packers) 6.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

29. Steve Hutchinson (Vikings) 7.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

29. Alan Faneca (Jets) 7.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

31. Chris Kemoeatu (Steelers) 7.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

32. Derrick Dockery (Bills) 8.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)

Center

1. Olin Kreutz (Bears) 0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

1. Todd McClure (Falcons) 0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

1. Chris Myers (Texans) 0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

1. Kevin Mawae (Titans) 0 sacks allowed (15 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

1. Ryan Kalil (Panthers) 0 sacks allowed (12 starts)

6. Brad Meester (Jags) 0.25 sacks allowed (10 starts)

7. Lyle Sendlein (Cardinals) 0.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

8. Duke Preston (Bills) 0.75 sacks allowed (11 starts)

9. Casey Wiegmann (Broncos) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

9. Jeff Faine (Bucs) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

9. Jonathan Goodwin (Saints) 1.0 sacks allowed (13 starts)

12. Nick Mangold (Jets) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

12. Andre Gurode (Cowboys) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

12. Shaun O’Hara (Giants) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

12. Matt Birk (Vikings) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

12. Jeff Saturday (Colts) 2.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)

12. Dominic Raiola (Lions) 2.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)

12. Nick Leckey (Rams) 2.0 sacks allowed (10 starts)

19. Jason Brown (Ravens) 2.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)

19. Jamaal Jackson (Eagles) 2.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)

21. Hank Fraley (Browns) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

21. Nick Hardwick (Chargers) 2.5 sacks allowed (13 starts)

21. Jake Grove (Raiders) 2.5 sacks allowed (12 starts)

21. Chris Spencer (Seahawks) 2.5 sacks allowed (11 starts)

25. Rudy Niswanger (Chiefs) 3.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)

25. Scott Wells (Packers) 3.5 sacks allowed (13 starts)

27. Eric Heitmann (49ers) 4.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

27. Eric Ghaiciuc (Bengals) 4.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

29. Samson Satele (Dolphins) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

29. Dan Koppen (Pats) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

31. Casey Rabach (Redskins) 5.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

32. Justin Harwig (Steelers) 6.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

Right Guard

1. Chris Kuper (Broncos) 0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

2. Jake Scott (Titans) 0.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

2. Max Jean-Gilles (Eagles) 0.5 sacks allowed (10 starts)

4. Chris Snee (Giants) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

4. Harvey Dahl (Falcons) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

4. Jason Spitz (Packers) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

4. Ikechuku Ndukwe (Dolphins) 1.0 sacks allowed (15 starts)

4. Brad Butler (Bills) 1.0 sacks allowed (13 starts)

4. Davin Joseph (Bucs) 1.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)

4. Adrian Jones (Chiefs) 1.0 sacks allowed (10 starts)

11. Rex Hadnot (Browns) 1.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)

12. Deuce Lutui (Cardinals) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

12. Brandon Moore (Jets) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

12. Mike Brisiel (Texans) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) …ERFA

12. Jahri Evans (Saints) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) …RFA

12. Mike Pollak (Colts) 2.0 sacks allowed (13 starts)

12. Stephen Neal (Pats) 2.0 sacks allowed (9 starts)

18. Roberto Garza (Bears) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

19. Randy Thomas (Redskins) 4.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

19. Robbie Williams (Bengals) 4.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

19. Cooper Carlisle (Raiders) 4.0 sacks allowed (15 starts)

19. Stephen Peterman (Lions) 4.0 sacks allowed (14 starts)

19. Tony Wragge (49ers) 4.0 sacks allowed (10 starts) …RFA

24. Leonard Davis (Cowboys) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

24. Mike Goff (Chargers) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

26. Darnell Stapleton (Steelers) 5.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)

27. Ben Grubbs (Ravens) 6.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

27. Richie Incognito (Rams) 6.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)

29. Dennis Norman (Jags) 7.25 sacks allowed (14 starts)

30. Anthony Herrera (Vikings) 7.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

No Seahawk or Panther started more then 8 games at RG

Right Tackle

1. Ryan Diem (Colts) 1.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

1. Jon Stinchcomb (Saints) 1.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

1. Ray Willis (Seahawks) 1.5 sacks allowed (10 starts)

4. David Stewart (Titans) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

4. Mark Tauscher (Packers) 2.0 sacks allowed (13 starts)

6. Ryan Harris (Broncos) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

6. Tyson Clabo (Falcons) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

8. Langston Walker (Bills) 3.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

8. Nick Kaczur (Pats) 3.0 sacks allowed (14 starts)

10. Willie Anderson (Ravens) 3.5 sacks allowed (11 starts)

11. Kareem McKenzie (Giants) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

11. Vernon Carey (Dolphins) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

11. Kevin Shaffer (Browns) 4.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)

14. Jeff Otah (Panthers) 5.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)

15. Tony Pashos (Jags) 5.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

15. Marc Colombo (Cowboys) 5.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

17. Willie Colon (Steelers) 5.75 sacks allowed (16 starts) …RFA

18. John Tait (Bears) 6.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

18. Jeremy Trueblood (Bucs) 6.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

18. Ryan Cook (Vikings) 6.0 sacks allowed (14 starts)

18. Gosder Cherilus (Lions) 6.0 sacks allowed (13 starts)

22. Damien Woody (Jets) 6.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

22. Jeromey Clary (Chargers) 6.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

22. Jon Jansen (Redskins) 6.5 sacks allowed (11 starts)

25. Jon Runyan (Eagles) 7.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

25. Damion McIntosh (Chiefs) 7.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

27. Cornell Green (Raiders) 7.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

27. Alex Barron (Rams) 7.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)

29. Eric Winston (Texans) 8.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

30. Stacy Andrews (Bengals) 9.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)

31. Adam Snyder (49ers) 9.5 sacks allowed (13 starts)

32. Levi Brown (Cardinals) 11.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

[gregstephens]

I guess with a sh*tty o-line that gets you killed that will happen

Here's a list of sacks allowed by position for the 2008 season:

Left Tackle

19. Levi Brown (Bengals) 5.5 sacks allowed (11 starts)

)

Need we say more about the respect the Bengals get? Yeah, Jones sucks, but at least get his name right.

[gregstephens]

Here's the funny part of all this. Check out the bio of the guy that wrote the article. He's a 20 year old college student and aspiring sports writer (I know, a rarity, huh?). Yes, the article is very well written, but do you suppose even he imagined his little non-paid article, written as likely because he knew it would draw tons of comments (and it did, check the site) as because he actually believes what he wrote, would spark these debates on fan forums world wide?

Seriously, any one on here checked any of the Patriots' boards to see if they are discussing this? I would be curious to know what they are saying.

[ArmyBengal]

Well take a closer look at that list and you will find that at RG, Center, and LG the Steelers gave up more sacks than the Bengals and still managed to win the Super Bowl. Big Ben is a big reason for that. "AT THIS POINT IN TIME" Carson isn't a better QB than Rottenfurburger so forget the Brady comparisons already...

**Waiting for backlash**

[BengalszoneBilly]

**Waiting for backlash**

None is forthcoming from me. Ben hands down has a better ability to escape a sack than Carson does.

[ArmyBengal]

That's a HUGE reason they are so successful on offense. Ben just doesn't go down that easily.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Ben just doesn't go down that easily.

He must be married.

[Kazkal]

Whitworth gave up 2-3 sacks in one game didn't he at LT? I'd also like to see QB Hit's along with this

20. Mike Gandy (Cardinals) 6.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)

32. Levi Brown (Cardinals) 11.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

Not the type of numbers you would expect from the 1# passing offense...

14. Max Starks (Steelers) 4.0 sacks allowed (11 starts)

31. Chris Kemoeatu (Steelers) 7.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

32. Justin Harwig (Steelers) 6.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

26. Darnell Stapleton (Steelers) 5.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)

17. Willie Colon (Steelers) 5.75 sacks allowed (16 starts) …RFA

Only reason steelers don't give up more sacks is 1# they run the ball so much 2 #Big Ben is unsackable.

That being said DAMN :| do I want a Championship winning Defense with Offense that does "just enough"

31. Jason Peters (Bills) 11.5 sacks allowed (13 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

17. Joe Thomas (Browns) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

How do these guys get to the Probowl? o_O

PS,After seeing that list really makes me wanna take tackle even less in the first round and continueing to build off our defense...

[ArmyBengal]

Ben just doesn't go down that easily.

He must be married.

Nice one my friend, nice one !!!