Offseason Drama Off to an Early Start

[HoosierCat]

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7411

-- TJ may sit out spring camps if tagged.

-- The contract dance between the Bengals and Crocker has begun.

-- The Bengals and Benson are a mutual admiration society.

[kingwilly]

Hoosier, you've leftoff what could be the most important story of the off-season: Mike Brown signing Stacey Andrews to a lucrative long-term deal WHILE rehabbing from his ACL/mashed knee.

no way you say? well I submit that Mr. Brown will extend an invitation to Mr. Andrews for a long-term stay at the SoP Home for Wayward, and Injured, Football Players. It makes perfect sense...you see SoP has a soft, as in limp, spot in his heart for those who have strayed from the straight and narrow. His reclamation projects have ranged from the benign (Justin Smith ad his DUI) to th inane (Chenry). It is only one minor, slippery step further to find him symapthizing and commiserating with Mr. Andrews as he hands him a bic ballpoint (c'mon,you really think SoP carries a Mont Blanc?) to sign his name to a 5yr - $40M deal...there, there, big fella, don't mind it at all, just head on home and show up Monday AM to beign your rehab...it will all work out.

Call me crazy but you know there is a small part of you that almost wishes it would happen for the unintentional comedy value of the whole thing. Just about good enough to be an Onion story.

[HoosierCat]

Actually, I think Mikey will look to re-sign Stacy even though he's hurt. Andrews isn't likely to draw any interest in March now; who's going to offer a deal to a 350 lb. OT rehabbing a mangled knee? Offer him, say, a two-year deal at league minimum and plan on placing him on IR all of '09 and see if he has anything left in 2010. Worst case you waste a couple hundred thousand in '09.

Of course, Andrews may not take it and may instead choose to sit out a year, or even try to come back next fall. If so, oh well, shake his hand and wish him luck.

[kingwilly]

Actually, I think Mikey will look to re-sign Stacy even though he's hurt. Andrews isn't likely to draw any interest in March now; who's going to offer a deal to a 350 lb. OT rehabbing a mangled knee? Offer him, say, a two-year deal at league minimum and plan on placing him on IR all of '09 and see if he has anything left in 2010. Worst case you waste a couple hundred thousand in '09.

Of course, Andrews may not take it and may instead choose to sit out a year, or even try to come back next fall. If so, oh well, shake his hand and wish him luck.

I think this would be a big mistake, no matter the cost.

Not only would it probably not work out, to your comparison of Palmer to Andrews, but it would be a drag on already thin team resources from the medical staff to the trainers to the positon coach. And that is precisely why it will happen.

It is like taking an expensive oversized vase that has busted, buying a bulk pack of crazy glue from Costco, "fixing" the vase and then placing it back in your main foyer under a light. THis s what SoP will be "counting on" as the anchor to the right side of the line for the next 5 years, a busted-up, crazy glued oversized vase.

[HoosierCat]

Not only would it probably not work out, to your comparison of Palmer to Andrews, but it would be a drag on already thin team resources from the medical staff to the trainers to the positon coach.

I'm gonna bet that Stacy has enough brains (as Carson did) to say, thanks but no thanks, to any help from out (on) crack medical staff.

It is like taking an expensive oversized vase that has busted, buying a bulk pack of crazy glue from Costco, "fixing" the vase and then placing it back in your main foyer under a light. THis s what SoP will be "counting on" as the anchor to the right side of the line for the next 5 years, a busted-up, crazy glued oversized vase.

Well, if Mikey is counting on him, yeah. But while Mikey is capable of some seriously dumb stuff, I don't see that happening. With Andrews a question mark to even play next year, and Levi crumbling before everyone's eyes, I think an OT in the first two rounds just got locked in.

[kingwilly]

Not only would it probably not work out, to your comparison of Palmer to Andrews, but it would be a drag on already thin team resources from the medical staff to the trainers to the positon coach.

I'm gonna bet that Stacy has enough brains (as Carson did) to say, thanks but no thanks, to any help from out (on) crack medical staff.

It is like taking an expensive oversized vase that has busted, buying a bulk pack of crazy glue from Costco, "fixing" the vase and then placing it back in your main foyer under a light. THis s what SoP will be "counting on" as the anchor to the right side of the line for the next 5 years, a busted-up, crazy glued oversized vase.

Well, if Mikey is counting on him, yeah. But while Mikey is capable of some seriously dumb stuff, I don't see that happening. With Andrews a question mark to even play next year, and Levi crumbling before everyone's eyes, I think an OT in the first two rounds just got locked in.

Agree.

- and -

From a guy that admitted that he was counting on Odell to be a key part fo the team THIS YEAR, then I bet the former. Andrews will be pencilled in as the starter, if the handling of Brooks and Rudi are an indicator, Levi notwithstanding.

To your point of an OT in r1 or r2, I would agree. Gotta pimp Taylor Mays but r2 could be a nice spot for an LT (for 09 depth).

With Stacey gimped for all eternity, and since I was counting on his departure, my new OL looks like this:

Whit - Livings - Birk - Williams - Collins (loooks good to me)

depth: r2 OT, Kooistra, Roland, Barton, El Ghiacuc

Adios to Levi, though I think Andrews could, <COULD>, become a decent guard down the line should his mangled knee be fused at a 45' angle if he is kept.

[UF_Gators_15]

I am sympathetic to Stacy and his long road ahead of him, but for T.J. to get sour b/c he knows were not gonna give Stacy his big payday and says its why he might find it hard to get to spring camps if he gets the franchise tag.

I got to points: 1. Its Stacy's own greedy ass fault, we obviously offered him a long term deal and he didn't take it, its his fault b/c he thought he was better than he is, and I was saying before he got injured that

we should let him walk, he's not talented enough or worth the money.

2. If TJ is threatening us then I tag him anyways and trade him, if he ain't gonna make it to the camps then I don't want him, he and Chad didn't train with Carson all offseason and their timing got

horribly affected b/c of their selfish time off.

[COB]

1. Its Stacy's own greedy ass fault,

Agreed. With several options before him, Stacy chose the highest risk scenario. It also had the highest reward if it worked. Get massively overcompensated under the tag, then sign a large deal with someone other than the Bengals because you don't want to play here. And being tagged only helps your bargaining position when it comes to negotiating that next contract.

He rolled the dice and crapped out. We owe him nothing.

[DesperateDerelict]

With Andrews a question mark to even play next year, and Levi crumbling before everyone's eyes, I think an OT in the first two rounds just got locked in.

Since when have the Bengals applied logic to their draft???

[HAPPYJAQ]

Roland played decently down the stretch in the game and is HUGE at 6'9'' and 325 pounds. He could be the next RT prospect. This draft appears to be deep at OT, as well. I could see the Bengals trading down and picking BPA. They also need to sign Brandon Johnson long term NOW. The guy only started one year at Louisville and hardly played (I think one snap from scrimmage last year) in AZ and has a huge upside. I would like to see Rivers moved to the middle, flanked by Johnson and Jeanty. That could be one of the league's best young LB corps next year. Quietly, Fitzgerald has done an outstanding job in his first year with the LB's. He might be in consideration for a DC job next year somewhere.

My thoughts (as of this morning) are to not resign T.J. He would bring you a 3rd round compensatory pick and by not resigning him and Andrews, you save about 17 million in cap room. They could make a play for 2-3 of the stud UFA's in addition to resigning Benson and Crocker. That makes it a 4-5 player for 2 player trade and upgrades the talent and depth on your roster. Kind of the idea when Marvin decided against Takeo and brought in Kelly, James, Hardy and Thornton. This would also allow for Marvin to be the "smashmouth, running football team" that he has really wanted to be since he first arrived here.

[HairOnFire]

TJ may sit out spring camps if tagged.

Don't care much. Housh has made a habit of doing his own spring thing and has produced at such a high level there shouldn't be any concern. In fact, if I'm the Bengals I think I announce my intent to tag Housh as early as Monday.

The contract dance between the Bengals and Crocker has begun.

One of Lewis's greatest failings in Cincy is his inability to find a veteran hybrid safety who can produce from both positions. To be perfectly fair Lewis has always attempted to fix the spot on the cheap by using castoffs like Rogers Beckett, Kim Herring, and Dexter Jackson OR by using later round draft picks on players like Marvin White or Ndukwe...so I guess it's somewhat fitting Lewis may have found what he was looking for on the street. In any case it looks like a good fit.

The Bengals and Benson are a mutual admiration society.

Nothing would accelerate a Bengals rebuild faster than finding a new bell cow RB without using a high draft pick.

[HairOnFire]

He [stacey Andrews] rolled the dice and crapped out. We owe him nothing.

Agreed. It may sound harsh but Andrews and the Bengals both took calculated risks, and neither side owes the other anything further.

Oh, and if the sight of Andrews rolling around on the ground serves as a cautionary tale for Housh, well...there you go.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Andrews is junk. Please just cut him when you can, and wish him well. He'll play somewhere else. I would hope his replacement comes on day one of the draft. Collins is already a better player regardless, and Whit should be fine at LT or RT for now if need be. I want Whit and his 6'7" body out of that guard spot. It's ridiculous.

Agreed on TJ above - he misses most of the spring camps any ways right?

And yes Benson will do just fine.

Gotta like what Crocker's done, but where was he Sunday? (made some mistakes and didn't produce much from what I can tell)

Give him another game Marv, before committing to someone before you have to, let his stock at least drop some first, not that they won't do that any ways.

[Bearcat1975]

If we tag TJ, expect little or no production from him next season.

And I agree that Andrews gambled and lost. Time to cut him loose. He's done.

The Bengals would do well to sign Benson to a MODEST 2 or 3 yr contract. If he wants more to play here (and who could blame him), send him packing. Same with Crocker.

That being said, the Bengals will tag TJ. That will piss him off. And the beat will go on.

[HairOnFire]

I want Whit and his 6'7" body out of that guard spot. It's ridiculous.

Not really. They may have to move Whit to a OT role due to pressing needs at those spots, but the desire for a more physical presence at LG is precisely why power puffs like Steinbach are gone.

I agree Whit's versatility is a strength and the idea he could shift to either OT role, temporarily or permanently, is comforting. That said, he was drafted specifically to replace Steinbach at OLG and he's done so marvelously.

[Jet23]

He [stacey Andrews] rolled the dice and crapped out. We owe him nothing.

Agreed. It may sound harsh but Andrews and the Bengals both took calculated risks, and neither side owes the other anything further.

Oh, and if the sight of Andrews rolling around on the ground serves as a cautionary tale for Housh, well...there you go.

I see Brown signing Andrews to a close to market deal. SOP signed James Francis to a more than fair deal after he broke his leg.

[HairOnFire]

I think an OT in the first two rounds just got locked in.

Same thing every year.

As soon as the first draft whispers are heard the talk turns to drafting new offensive players with every high draft pick.

(((sigh))))

[HairOnFire]

I see Brown signing Andrews to a close to market deal. SOP signed James Francis to a more than fair deal after he broke his leg.

First thought?

Broken bones are a far different thing than torn tissue and expoded tendons.

[HoosierCat]

I think an OT in the first two rounds just got locked in.

Same thing every year.

As soon as the first draft whispers are heard the talk turns to drafting new offensive players with every high draft pick.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting we draft two tackles, only that one of those two selections needs to be dedicated to the spot. I wouldn't be unhappy about waiting until the second if there's an impact defender, particularly a linebacker, around when we pick in the first. I'd love to snag Aaron Curry, who I think would be everything they hoped Pollack would be, except without the extensive development time.

[BengalPimp]

I see Brown signing Andrews to a close to market deal. SOP signed James Francis to a more than fair deal after he broke his leg.

First thought?

Broken bones are a far different thing than torn tissue and expoded tendons.

Second Thought?

Where is that money now, as the dude got locked up because he owed nearly a mill in back child support....But Francis was a solid LB for us for a long time, Stacey's played regularly for about a year and a half.....

Adios Stacey

[HairOnFire]

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting we draft two tackles, only that one of those two selections needs to be dedicated to the spot.

Fair enough. When I read your remarks I assumed from the wording you used that you were pimping the idea of back-to-back tackles....an idea I have no love for. Furthermore, one of the principle reasons I like the idea of drafting 4-6 rather than 2-3 relates to the way the draft opens up to other options. At the #3 slot I think this team would be locked into selecting an OT, but slide 'em down only a slot or two and other options become increasingly viable.

I'd love to snag Aaron Curry, who I think would be everything they hoped Pollack would be, except without the extensive development time.quote]

I haven't seen Curry enough to say whether he's worthy of Top 5 consideration, but yeah.....he does look the part.

[Jet23]

I see Brown signing Andrews to a close to market deal. SOP signed James Francis to a more than fair deal after he broke his leg.

First thought?

Broken bones are a far different thing than torn tissue and expoded tendons.

Second Thought?

Where is that money now, as the dude got locked up because he owed nearly a mill in back child support....But Francis was a solid LB for us for a long time, Stacey's played regularly for about a year and a half.....

Adios Stacey

Dude, you have me confused with someone that doesn't think Mike Brown is a complete boob. I'm not saying it's right, but given SOP's track record, he is going to do the deal if it can save him a few bucks. They burned a 4th round pick on the guy hoping that he would be a good lineman some day. Then, SOP made him the least talented franchise designation in the history of the NFL, in the hopes that he would be a good lineman some day. They will sign the guy to a multi-year deal in the hopes that he will be a good lineman some day.

We're talking about Mike Brown here. Unless he hires a GM that b!tch slaps some sense into him before he pulls the trigger, SOP will sign Andrews back. Come on, the man was counting on Odell to lead the defense. Don't bother the man with details such as torn ligaments or substance abuse problems. He knows what he is doing...

[HairOnFire]

I'm not saying it's right, but given SOP's track record, he is going to do the deal if it can save him a few bucks.

Well, what exactly is his track record? An injured James Francis might have gotten a new contract while dinged, but there weren't many concerns he couldn't recover from a cleanly broken bone. So how many other Bengal players can you name who have gotten new "market value" contract offers immediately after being seriously injured?

[Jet23]

I'm not saying it's right, but given SOP's track record, he is going to do the deal if it can save him a few bucks.

Well, what exactly is his track record? An injured James Francis might have gotten a new contract while dinged, but there weren't many concerns he couldn't recover from a cleanly broken bone. So how many other Bengal players can you name who have gotten new "market value" contract offers immediately after being seriously injured?

You're reading too much into it. I didn't say given SOP's track record as it pertains to freshly injured players. When you own the Siberia of the NFL, I guess you have to get creative and pray a lot. The fact of the matter is, the only chance that Brown had of retaining Andrews or Francis, was for them to get hurt. This way, he retains the players, at a reasonable price, and doesn't have bid against the real NFL for Free Agent talent.

What you are saying is that a reasonable person would not sign Andrews to a multi-year deal, given his current medical condition. I agree, but you are giving SOP waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit. Would I do the deal? No, absolutely not. Nor would I have franchised a player that may turn out to be an adequate Guard if he really applied himself. However, MIKE BROWN WILL SIGN HIM!

[HAPPYJAQ]

I don't think that Big Stace will be resigned due to the fact that he was just Franchised the year before. The Bengals would expect him to take a significant cut, and for those who are unsure how the Bengals look at players with injuries, consider the 2nd best OL to ever wear stripes was replaced due to him not accepting a pay cut. Due to the timing of the injury he wil surely miss the OTA's and minicamps and will not be 100% for training camp. Marvin also said that he tore other ligaments, which sounds to be like a possible total knee reconstruction, if he blew out the MCL (very likely) and PCL. That puts his rehab in the 9-12 month range, which means that the earliest he would likely be back would be after week 5 of the regular season, if he is even cleared then medically. At that point, he would have been effectively replaced by either Whitworth or Collins (or a draft pick). It could very well be another Kenny Irons/Cadillac Williams situation and the rehab is much tougher on a 350 pound OT than it is on a 185-200 pound RB, when it comes to getting the knew strong enough to play effectively. I think he rehabs the year, works out for a few teams prior to the draft in '10, and signs a one year deal with the highest bidder at that time, or after the draft.

He could also take less money to play with his brother in Philly (which he has always wanted to do), who have enough depth to allow him to rehab and come back healthy a year later.