Lewis: Changes Necessary for Me to Stay

[HairOnFire]

And Marv's publicly lobbied for the dreaded "bubble" in the past.

Yeah, and with all of the severe weather Cincy has had this season a practice bubble sure would have helped.

No, wait a minute. There's been no severe weather to date, the Bengals already have outstanding practice facilities, as well as suitable places to store lawnmowers and assorted whatnots.

It's sorta funny. Around here, whenever things seem the darkest....the scuttlebuttin' always seems to turn to bubbles and billboards. Go figure.

[BengalszoneBilly]

He's known as an excellent defensive coordinator.

I'm not buying that one bit.

[volcom69]

He sure didnt know how to build a defense or coach a defense here, he was only a good D cord. because of the players that were around him

[CarsonDaMan]

He sure didnt know how to build a defense or coach a defense here, he was only a good D cord. because of the players that were around him

Isn't that how it usually is?? Not many coaches in the world can turn water into wine. The fact of the matter is players win games. If a decent coach has good players he's going to beat a great coach with piss poor players. It's not Marvins fault he has to deal with an inept owner who has no clue how to give the tools needed to succeed.

You can say all day maybe he has lost this team and maybe he has. But is that again really his fault?? When your owner goes over your head to bring back some thug you didnt want you immediately lose authority. I've also got to believe Marvin would've made that chad johnson trade every day of the week. The season was doomed once SOP insisted on turning down the trade offer.

Also do bad coaches take the worst franchise in the league from nothing to immediate playoff contenders? Then three years later have a potential Super Bowl team with a healthy QB. You're seriously misguided if you think Marvin Lewis is the root of the problems here.

[GapControl]

If Brown gets rid of Marvin Lewis after this year, I may have to find something else to do on Sundays. Who the hell else is out there (other than Bill Cowher) that is better?

[gregstephens]

If Brown gets rid of Marvin Lewis after this year, I may have to find something else to do on Sundays. Who the hell else is out there (other than Bill Cowher) that is better?

I hear Lane Kiffin is available, and he has experience dealing with a crazy owner.

[jjakq27]

If Brown gets rid of Marvin Lewis after this year, I may have to find something else to do on Sundays. Who the hell else is out there (other than Bill Cowher) that is better?

I would like to see a little Marty-ball but he has a habit of leaving/gettng fired every two or three years though. I had hoped that Marvin would be here for the long haul just like Cowher or Jeff Fisher to name two.

Trading Chad to Philly or wherever would be step one. Shoring up the O-line would be number two. Dumping Chris Perry would be number three and the rest is open for debate.

[HairOnFire]

The fact of the matter is players win games. If a decent coach has good players he's going to beat a great coach with piss poor players.

I think it goes beyond the piss poor ones. The failed stretch drive of '06 was the result of the very best Bengal players not only failing time and time again, but for lack of a better word....choking. And along those same lines the follow-up campaign in 2007 was at best a mixed bag of performances from the Bengals very best players.

You can say all day maybe he has lost this team and maybe he has. But is that again really his fault?? When your owner goes over your head to bring back some thug you didnt want you immediately lose authority.

And that act was even more damaging in a lockerroom that had grown used to the so-called Chad Rules, a here-and-gone-again Odell Thurman, and an endless parade of stories about wayward Bengal players being arrested. So what could be more symbolic? Lewis had just announced in his best Wyatt Earp imitation..."It all ends now"....and who gets dumped back into his lap? The most oft-arrested Bengal of the bunch. Worse, I strongly believe Henry wouldn't be a Bengal today were it not for Chad's antics. So it's blatant douchebaggery compounded by further douchebaggery topped by the biggest douchebaggery of all, the fact that it all could have been avoided.

I've also got to believe Marvin would've made that chad johnson trade every day of the week. The season was doomed once SOP insisted on turning down the trade offer.

I'm still in Marvin's corner, but I think if he wanted Chad traded he should have said so. Instead, he played the role of the stern father figure and welcomed his off-kilter offspring back into the family with actual hugs and kisses.

Just saying...

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'm still in Marvin's corner, but I think if he wanted Chad traded he should have said so. Instead, he played the role of the stern father figure and welcomed his off-kilter offspring back into the family with actual hugs and kisses.

Just saying...

You're assuming he didn't. I'd wager good money he was begging MB daily to take any of the Chad trades. That he didn't say so to the media fits with his MO.

Once the trade didn't happen, it's still his job to coach the team as best he could, and that includes Chad, for better or worse. But that doesn't mean he's happy about it by any means. Check the look on Marvin's face next time Chad kisses him; it kinda looks like Marv just ate a turd sandwich.

[HairOnFire]

You're assuming he didn't. I'd wager good money he was begging MB daily to take any of the Chad trades.

I'm assuming nothing. I said Marvin "should" have said he wanted Chad traded if that's how he felt, and I think it's a given I was talking about things said outside of closed doors, not opinions expressed deep within Mike Brown's evil lair.

That he didn't say so to the media fits with his MO.

Check the tread title again. Lewis may not voice his concerns to the media in minute detail, but he's sent messages through the press before and I'm certain he'll do it again. But in the example of the trade proposal the message Lewis sent loudly and clearly was the exact opposite of what you now claim were his true feelings.

Simply put, Lewis stated point-blank, if Chad was going to play again he'd do it for the Bengals and nobody else. In doing so he effectively quashed any hope of the trade you claim he coveted.

Once the trade didn't happen, it's still his job to coach the team as best he could, and that includes Chad, for better or worse. But that doesn't mean he's happy about it by any means.

I think it's a fairly reasonable bet nobody is happy right now. Furthermore, I'm guessing plenty of people have second-guessed their opinion on all things Chad and would now act differently if the circumstances were repeated. And they are being repeated, right? And if the Lapham scuttlebutt can be trusted even Mike Brown has come to grips with the idea that Chad must be traded now.

Check the look on Marvin's face next time Chad kisses him; it kinda looks like Marv just ate a turd sandwich.

Isn't that the same look that rests on all of our faces?

[agreen_112]

2) things couldn't get any worse.

Hey, this is the Bengals. If there's a bottom, they haven't found it yet, and they've been trying for, what, 17 years?

Seriously, tho, how screwed up does it say that this organization is that a head coach who's 1-8-1 can issue a threat to quit?

He's not making a threat to quit, he's saying that if he doesn't make changes his ass is gonna get fired. I doubt Marvin is the quitting type.

[agreen_112]

He went far today in airing his thoughts. I think it is significant and does indicate a breech between him and MB.

Oh, I agree there's a breech. I'm simply not convinced it was a threat to quit.

You're right, why does everyone assume?

[gregstephens]

2) things couldn't get any worse.

Hey, this is the Bengals. If there's a bottom, they haven't found it yet, and they've been trying for, what, 17 years?

Seriously, tho, how screwed up does it say that this organization is that a head coach who's 1-8-1 can issue a threat to quit?

He's not making a threat to quit, he's saying that if he doesn't make changes his ass is gonna get fired. I doubt Marvin is the quitting type.

I don't think ML is a quitter, but there is a difference between quitting and being smart enough to get off the sinking ship before you drown. I do think ML is that smart.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'm assuming nothing. I said Marvin "should" have said he wanted Chad traded if that's how he felt, and I think it's a given I was talking about things said outside of closed doors, not opinions expressed deep within Mike Brown's evil lair.

You can't though. A coach can't ever go on record as saying he wants a player gone because he might not get gone. You also kill your negotiating power if you do actually convince the owner/GM to go for the trade. This one needed to be in the lair, and I would bet money it happened.

Check the tread title again. Lewis may not voice his concerns to the media in minute detail, but he's sent messages through the press before and I'm certain he'll do it again. But in the example of the trade proposal the message Lewis sent loudly and clearly was the exact opposite of what you now claim were his true feelings. Simply put, Lewis stated point-blank, if Chad was going to play again he'd do it for the Bengals and nobody else. In doing so he effectively quashed any hope of the trade you claim he coveted.

I must have missed that one. If he said it and wasn't being sarcastic, that might have been spin control after it was a done deal that Mikey wouldn't trade Chad. Once you know the guy's coming back, you have to coach him.

The only thing I remember him saying was when a reporter asked him if he thought Chad was going to sit out, Marvin said he took Chad at his word. That tells me Marvin not only was willing to trade him, he'd be willing to get rid of him for nothing.

I think it's a fairly reasonable bet nobody is happy right now. Furthermore, I'm guessing plenty of people have second-guessed their opinion on all things Chad and would now act differently if the circumstances were repeated. And they are being repeated, right? And if the Lapham scuttlebutt can be trusted even Mike Brown has come to grips with the idea that Chad must be traded now.

I know I was praying for any deal with a first rounder last summer. Problem with Mikey coming around is that Chad now has no trade value, I'd imagine.

[HairOnFire]

You can't though. A coach can't ever go on record as saying he wants a player gone because he might not get gone.

But if you say nothing, as you claim Lewis was doing against his better judgement, you surrender the ability to put added pressure on the owner/GM to accept a trade. So why would Lewis refuse to play that card if he was as adamant about trading Chad as you believe? Why wouldn't he let slip the slightest hint of his true desires? Why wouldn't he leak a drib or a drab that hinted at how he really felt, rather than convincing stonewalling Chad at every turn, thereby forcing his return?

Look, I still like Marvin more than most, and I'm still hoping he can salvage enough of '08 to prevent '09 from being an even uglier twin. But Lewis is as responsible as anyone for how Chad was handled over a long period of time, and if he no longer wants any part of Chad Johnson in stripes, well....it strikes me as a fairly recent revelation.

[HairOnFire]

I know I was praying for any deal with a first rounder last summer. Problem with Mikey coming around is that Chad now has no trade value, I'd imagine.

I'm guessing Chad's trade value is exactly what it was last year. Teams that were previously interested already knew they were getting a douchebag, and all concerned will be quick to find Chad blameless for his acting out. After all, he was Bengalized. Or so the story goes.

[Kazkal]

He went far today in airing his thoughts. I think it is significant and does indicate a breech between him and MB.

Oh, I agree there's a breech. I'm simply not convinced it was a threat to quit.

I can't speak for Marvin obviously, but its rare for a coach to dish dirt on his team, like Marvin did today, and expect his owner to be pleased with him. We all know what owners do to coaches that displease them.

Doesn't mikey just turn the other cheek because he's like well if I fired him...it could cost me

[Walrus]

I know I was praying for any deal with a first rounder last summer. Problem with Mikey coming around is that Chad now has no trade value, I'd imagine.

I'm guessing Chad's trade value is exactly what it was last year. Teams that were previously interested already knew they were getting a douchebag, and all concerned will be quick to find Chad blameless for his acting out. After all, he was Bengalized. Or so the story goes.

Do you honestly think anyone out there would lay out the kind of offer we got last spring ever again for CJ? I wish you were right on this. Unfortunately, he's one year older and his act is one year staler (on the field and off). Unless he does a lot to create some buzz (other that of flies on rotting refuse) between now and week 16, Parcells will not be on the phone for him. Sorry Ocho.

[HairOnFire]

Do you honestly think anyone out there would lay out the kind of offer we got last spring ever again for CJ? I wish you were right on this.

We'll see.

But before you claim I'm pie-eyed consider this. Last year most of the people on this board thought I was nuts when I pegged Chad's trade value as a 1st and a 3rd, if not more. In response I was shouted down by the tiny voices of a hundred Peter King clones, all claiming the Bengals would be offered no more than a 4th round pick for their brain damaged goods.

How'd that turn out?

[walzav29]

We all know Mike Brown is stubborn and just plain dumb when it comes to football knowledge. THAT IS NOT DEBATABLE. The question is can he acknowledge that this mess was all his? He lost his mind this offseason and it is by far the worst worst results since Marvin has been here. Can he come to grips? Apologize to Marvin and creep back into his hole?

[Kazkal]

The question is can he acknowledge that this mess was all his?

Has he ever done it before because I'm pretty sure he has a record at this sort of thing.

[HoosierCat]

Re Chad's trade value, I don't see another DC-level offer coming. But I wouldn't be surprised to see someone offer a second-rounder for him, as the Pats did for Dillon back in 2004. Corey's situation then is quite similar to Chad's now: both aging players (30 for CD, 31 for CJ as of this coming January) with injury questions coming off poor seasons. Like Dillon, if you put Chad in the right situation, he likely has at least one good season left in him, as Corey did in '04, and maybe a couple more.

[gregstephens]

Re Chad's trade value, I don't see another DC-level offer coming. But I wouldn't be surprised to see someone offer a second-rounder for him, as the Pats did for Dillon back in 2004. Corey's situation then is quite similar to Chad's now: both aging players (30 for CD, 31 for CJ as of this coming January) with injury questions coming off poor seasons. Like Dillon, if you put Chad in the right situation, he likely has at least one good season left in him, as Corey did in '04, and maybe a couple more.

If you put Fredo on the Pats with Moss and Brady next season, he has more than a couple more good seasons left. If you put him in Oakland with Russell and SoP's twin, or Detroit with Culpepper/Kitna, probably not even one more good one.

And for the record, I'd trade his tail to either of those places for a ham sandwich and wish him the best of luck at this point. He wants traded to a contender...screw that.

[kentjett]

Wr's last a lot longer than RB's. Chad has at least 3 more good years left in him if he is in the right situation. I truly believe that Cincy is one of those situations. Mike Brown is too cheap to pay Chads remaining salary and let him go. Chad is here to stay and TJ is long gone.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Wr's last a lot longer than RB's. Chad has at least 3 more good years left in him if he is in the right situation. I truly believe that Cincy is one of those situations. Mike Brown is too cheap to pay Chads remaining salary and let him go. Chad is here to stay and TJ is long gone.

Nice sig Bootiemiester!