I know we won....but.....

[BengalPimp]

I dont want to sound negative after our first win of the season, but am I the only one who thinks the Bengals should give Jordan Palmer a shot?

Look, we're most likely not going to re-sign Fitzpatrick, nor should we. The guy has a friggin NOODLE for an arm....Case in point---Among the NFL's top 35 QB's the guy has the WORST yards per attemp at a ghastly 4.8 yards.....The guy has only 2...thats right....2 passes of 20+ yards this season with the longest being 22 yards....Seriously guys, why not see if Jordan can be our backup by giving him some playing time. He's got an arm, and our deep threats like Chad, Henry, and even TJ, are being wasted. Not only does Fitzpatrick not have the arm to throw deep, he lacks the accuracy on those balls(as shown the couple of times he's even attempted them).

The guy can run, but a QB's job is to throw.......6 games, 5 starts, 2 completions of 20+ with a long of 22? C'mon....

[membengal]

I've got no problems with Fitz as a back-up qb, and am not anxious to see Jordan Palmer. I think what we are seeing with Fitz is confirmation of just how spoiled we have been by Carson's ability to throw an accurate deep ball. That's a rare thing.

What Fitz does, well enough to be a decent back-up, is manage the game, throw an accurate short ball, and use his feet to make yardage. On a list of things that ails this team, I put back-up qb way down on the list at this point.

[derekshank]

Fitz has gotten significantly better since when he first got his start. I see about 10 throws a game that I say out loud "Palmer would have made that." But you're back-up isn't going to be as good as your starter unless you're the Bears.

[ArmyBengal]

I don't think it's his arm strength, I think it's his accuracy. Either way, he's a backup, but it's all we have...

[BengalPimp]

One of my points is that with his weak arm(and it is weak) it makes a guy like Henry look absolutely useless. Also, if and when Simpson and Caldwell get any game time, it would be incredibly difficult to properly evaluate them, and hinder their progress if all they are doing is catching 5-7 yard curls/slants.

[BengalPimp]

I'd like to see Jordan Palmer or Jeff Rowe get some chances, seeing that next year Fitzpatrick will be gone anyways.

[Kazkal]

rowe is gone

[HairOnFire]

Look, Fitzpatrick will probably never be a deep passing threat, long rumored to be the reason the Rams cooled on him, but c'mon now.....after investing the better part of two months getting Fitzpatrick up to speed, you simply can't pull him just as he's finally showing some comfort running the offense. Worse, if you turned to Jordan Palmer you might add the threat of the deep pass, but you'll almost certainly destroy whatever timing has been developed.

Fuzzy memories: Remember when I warned about how none of the Bengals backup QB's had ever played a snap for this team? And remember how everyone said I was worrying about nothing? Hoosier even claimed I was looking for problems where none existed.

Well, you were all painfully wrong.....as is typical.

Regardless, it's fair to say Fitzpatrick has now gotten the snaps and work he needed in order for him to step into the highly prized role of "Nuevo Kitna".

[gregstephens]

One of my points is that with his weak arm(and it is weak) it makes a guy like Henry look absolutely useless. Also, if and when Simpson and Caldwell get any game time, it would be incredibly difficult to properly evaluate them, and hinder their progress if all they are doing is catching 5-7 yard curls/slants.

I think we need to differentiate the term 'weak arm'. His biggest problem wasn't arm strength in re distance, as he kept overthrowing Henry and Fredo. His arm strength issue appears to be more that he can't throw a Favre type bullet. He floats them way too high in the air to get his distance. Not that that's any better...just sayin'.

[HoosierCat]

Fuzzy memories: Remember when I warned about how none of the Bengals backup QB's had ever played a snap for this team? And remember how everyone said I was worrying about nothing? Hoosier even claimed I was looking for problems where none existed.

And they still don't. How many wins did we get with Carson Palmer under center? Right. The problem hasn't been the QB, it's been the pathetic play of the o-line.

[HairOnFire]

I think we need to differentiate the term 'weak arm'.

I'd say Fitzpatrick doesn't have a strong arm, but it's adequate for most tasks. Where I think things begin to slide into true weakness is on the deep or hard out patterns that represent the bread of Chad Johnson's game, and the over the top deep game that represents the butter. Personally, I think the failure on deep outs is hurting the Bengals far more than the lack of a deep passing game, and as with Kitna I fear the weakness isn't capable of being corrected. Both QB's simply lack the arm strength to consistently make those types of throws.

That said, I think the deep passing game can be revived somewhat. The overthrows in the Jag game were frustrating, but try to keep in mind how rarely they've even attempted deep throws of late. And when was the last time we watched any Bengal QB, including Palmer, have the time to repeatedly test defenses over the top?

[HairOnFire]

Fuzzy memories: Remember when I warned about how none of the Bengals backup QB's had ever played a snap for this team? And remember how everyone said I was worrying about nothing? Hoosier even claimed I was looking for problems where none existed.

And they still don't. How many wins did we get with Carson Palmer under center? Right. The problem hasn't been the QB, it's been the pathetic play of the o-line.

So according to you quarterback play hasn't been a problem?

Well, I see you're no smarter than you were when I was last here.

What a pity.

[ArmyBengal]

Kitna was lucky to throw the ball 20 yards downfield let alone the deep route. Fitzpatrick has overthrown Chad and Henry both 40+ yards down he field. So depending on how you want to determine what "arm strength" really means, I stil say his issue is more with the accuracy of the deep pass and less with the issue of actually throwing the ball that far. Carson just has had us a little spoiled in that department !!!

[HairOnFire]

Kitna was lucky to throw the ball 20 yards downfield let alone the deep route.

Ridiculous.

Fitzpatrick has overthrown Chad and Henry both 40+ yards down he field.

You're easily impressed I guess.

So depending on how you want to determine what "arm strength" really means, I stil say his issue is more with the accuracy of the deep pass and less with the issue of actually throwing the ball that far.

Kitna or Fitzpatrick, it isn't an issue of throwing the ball 40 yards because both of them can manage that trick rather easily. Rather, it's timing and opportunity plus the ability to make the type of throw that defenders can't make a play on. And to that end, the Bengals eventually managed some deep passing success, despite Kitna's weak arm, because Kitna finally learned to put more air under his throws.

What I don't see changing...ever...is improvement on the hard sideline out pattern. Fitzpatrick, like Kitna, simply doesn't have the arm strength to make that throw consistently OR in a manner that defenses can't exploit. And just as with the deep ball the problem isn't related to accuracy. The ball is simply in the air too long.

Carson just has had us a little spoiled in that department !!!

Different breeds of cats. Palmer's reputation for throwing the deep ball is well established, but it's just as fair to describe him as the type of QB who can beat you throwing outside the hashmarks. Fitzpatrick, like Kitna, is the type of player who works best within the numbers.

[ArmyBengal]

Kitna was lucky to throw the ball 20 yards downfield let alone the deep route.

Ridiculous.

Yeah I know, I just disliked Kitna, nothing more...

Fitzpatrick has overthrown Chad and Henry both 40+ yards down he field.

You're easily impressed I guess.

No, not by any stretch. Just stating what has happened...

So depending on how you want to determine what "arm strength" really means, I stil say his issue is more with the accuracy of the deep pass and less with the issue of actually throwing the ball that far.

Kitna or Fitzpatrick, it isn't an issue of throwing the ball 40 yards because both of them can manage that trick rather easily. Rather, it's timing and opportunity plus the ability to make the type of throw that defenders can't make a play on. And to that end, the Bengals eventually managed some deep passing success, despite Kitna's weak arm, because Kitna finally learned to put more air under his throws.

What I don't see changing...ever...is improvement on the hard sideline out pattern. Fitzpatrick, like Kitna, simply doesn't have the arm strength to make that throw consistently OR in a manner that defenses can't exploit. And just as with the deep ball the problem isn't related to accuracy. The ball is simply in the air too long.

So you say the problem is, due to his inability to produce any type of velocity (lack of arm strength) he floats the balls. I suppose that is just as reasonable. Cool, whatever works...

Carson just has had us a little spoiled in that department !!!

Different breeds of cats. Palmer's reputation for throwing the deep ball is well established, but it's just as fair to describe him as the type of QB who can beat you throwing outside the hashmarks. Fitzpatrick, like Kitna, is the type of player who works best within the numbers.

DEFINITELY different breeds and I was merely pointing out that Carson makes people think that is the norm as opposed to the exception for most QB's.

I've just never been a huge fan of Kitna as a starting QB and never will be. I think he would make a great QB coach someday and love his field smarts. To bad he didn't have the physical capabilities to match his management abilities on the field.

[HairOnFire]

I've just never been a huge fan of Kitna as a starting QB and never will be. I think he would make a great QB coach someday and love his field smarts. To bad he didn't have the physical capabilities to match his management abilities on the field.

All of which touches on the reasons why I compare Kitna and Fitzpatrick. As starters the physical shortcomings that can be overlooked in spot relief are simply too limiting over the long term. But the field smarts make both weak armed QB's fairly attractive as backups, as does their ability to run.

Back to Fitzpatrick, he's finally gotten enough work with the starters to not only develope a little timing with his receivers, but more importantly....to deliver the ball on time. And until he managed that trick this offense wasn't going to get better anywhere.

[HairOnFire]

So you say the problem is, due to his inability to produce any type of velocity (lack of arm strength) he floats the balls.

Pretty much. I have no doubt Carson Palmer can throw the ball farther than Fitzpatrick but that's a skill that can be demonstrated only a few times a game....making it a rather limited standard of arm strength. But a lack of velocity can show up in plenty of ways, and I think that's especially true on the types of hard sideline out patterns that have become Chad's signature play. (Palmer sticks the throw, Chad catches the ball while dragging his feet before going out of bounds. Move the chains, please.)

The hard out is the type throw Kitna couldn't make consistently, and I've got strong doubts about Fitzpatrick faring any better....which could be troubling because he'll have to make that throw more and more often as the offense improves. And for those who may have already forgotten, the Jags managed to jump those routes at least three times Sunday.

Just saying.

[HoosierCat]

So according to you quarterback play hasn't been a problem?

Not particularly. Absent a run game and sufficient protection, no QB can be successful, as we've seen all year.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Fuzzy memories: Remember when I warned about how none of the Bengals backup QB's had ever played a snap for this team? And remember how everyone said I was worrying about nothing? Hoosier even claimed I was looking for problems where none existed.

The responses *I* recall were along the lines of "It doesn't matter who our backup is because if Palmer goes down we're f*cked no matter what". He did, and we are.

Of course, with this O-line we were f*cked before the season started, we just didn't know it.

Well, you were all painfully wrong.....as is typical.

Delusions of grandeur...

[HairOnFire]

Fuzzy memories: Remember when I warned about how none of the Bengals backup QB's had ever played a snap for this team? And remember how everyone said I was worrying about nothing? Hoosier even claimed I was looking for problems where none existed.

The responses *I* recall were along the lines of "It doesn't matter who our backup is because if Palmer goes down we're f*cked no matter what". He did, and we are.

Frankly, your beloved "It doesn't matter" rant sounds as stupid today as it did back then.

Of course it mattered.

And it still does.

[HairOnFire]

So according to you quarterback play hasn't been a problem?

Not particularly. Absent a run game and sufficient protection, no QB can be successful, as we've seen all year.

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Or if you prefer, what thoughts went flashing through your empty mind when you heard the announcers of the Jag/Bengal game talking about how Bengal coaches had told them that Fitzpatrick had a good grasp of the playbook from the very start, but had only recently begun to read and grasp and process the things he was seeing on the field?

So, I ask you. How long did that take?

How long did it take before Fitpatrick was capable of anything more than running from the pocket like a rabbit?

It took amonth and a half, right?

So save the rant about how no quarterback could have fared better, and for once just admit the obvious. Fitzpatrick wasn't capable of running an offense the coaches admit he knew well enough....because the Bengals had done almost NOTHING to prepare him should he have to play.

And yeah, it mattered.

[HairOnFire]

Of course, with this O-line we were f*cked before the season started, we just didn't know it.

What you don't know could fill a book or two.

Or an internet message board.

[HoosierCat]

So save the rant about how no quarterback could have fared better,

It's not a rant, just the facts. Again, how did Palmer -- who did know the playbook backward and forward and could process all he was seeing on the field -- fare? Let's see...busted nose, busted elbow, zero wins, and a couple of the worst performances of his career.

It's the o-line, not the QB.

[TJJackson]

Of course, with this O-line we were f*cked before the season started, we just didn't know it.

What you don't know could fill a book or two.

Or an internet message board.

Yeah, it was quite clear during the preseason that the OLine had fallen apart. The picture of Carson walking to the locker room with nose bloodied

told the story in a single frame

[HairOnFire]

It's the o-line, not the QB.

Uhhh, it's the O-line, and the QB, and the RB's, and the WR's, and probably a dozen other things.

And anyone who thinks it's just one thing is a very special kind of stupid.

Don't be that guy.