Rookie Mini-camp thread

[membengal]

And, this long take from C. Trent:

It's over.

The team signed three of the tryout players -- defensive tackle Antwon Burton (6-2, 325, Temple), a third-year NFL player who was with the Broncos in 2006 and '07. HE played six games for the Broncos last season. He played in one game as a rookie in 2006. They also signed LB Dan Howell (6-0, 247; Washington) and WR Clyde Logan (6-3, 202; Idaho State).

And, well, Marvin was chatty today.

"It’s been a good weekend, a good five practices. I think when you can get as much football done with the young guys, it helps us bring the draft picks along so that later on when they return with the rest of the football team, they hit the ground and when they hear things the second time they’ll have a better understand of offense, defense, special teams, positions, alignments etc.

The guys were brought in to supplement that, even the tryout guys, helped us get some football done. There are some guys on that list that we’ll bring in and see if they can make the roster and find someone they can displace."

Marvin was asked if anyone made him go 'wow.': "All the draft picks, that's why we drafted them. ... I was pleased with the draft picks, I really was. They came in and made me go, ‘wow.’ That’s what they’re supposed to do. All 10 guys I was impressed with. I thought Matt Sherry, as things went along, really made me go ‘wow’ as we got in to one-on-one stuff with linebackers and safety. I thought our receivers, Simpson and Caldwell, did a great job that way. Corey Lynch made a couple of plays on the football as a safety. The two defensive tackles have an opportunity, as they get down footwork, stances and weight distribution, they’re going to be able to help us and make us go ‘wow.’ I feel good about that. One of the guys we signed after the draft, Simeon Castille, came in and I thought handled himself very well and did a great job that way. Anthony Hoke was making the transition from defensive end to linebacker here."

On what he learned from seeing players here: "I can spend 15 minutes with them in a room in Indianapolis, you can bring them in here, you can have your coaches spend time with them on campus, but you don’t really see if they can handle a five-day instillation. Secondly, the speed of playing football. Timed 40 speed is one thing, but football speed – with 11-on-11 playing football speed is different and that matters. I think a guy’s strength and how much man he has to him. Anthony Collins is a good example. When he places his hands on someone, their hands are on him. Jason Shirley, when they lay hands on you, they have hands on you. I don’t think you get to see how much man is in that bunch, Pat Sims as well. Those three big guys we took are big, strong men. That’s something I came away impressed with. The length and strength of Angelo Craig. He needs to improve a lot, but he’s got some toughness and some fight and he’s been out there battling for five practices with Anthony Collins. To me, that showed a lot. From top to bottom, Keith probably had the easiest transition, because he’s been doing things he’s been doing. I’ve really been impressed with how it came out and what we were able to draft and what they showed."

Injuries? "I think Ethan Kilmer should be ready to go. Chris (Perry) should be. Kenny Irons will not be, but we already said that, so that’s repetitive. John Busing is the other guy who should be right at the point where he’s 100 percent cleared. I don’t know if there’s anyone else I’m missing. We’ve had about everyone here. I think we’ll be pretty close to have everybody."

And then on his own, he volunteered that he likes his new defensive coaches: "I think the other thing, to sum it up, it’s been good for the defensive coaches. The best thing two is for our defensive coaches, Mike Zimmer and the defensive staff to go out and put things in for the first time. There’s a change. So I expect there’s a couple of guys, who defensively, I think they’ve had most of the veteran players. It’s important for our veteran players to be here on the offseason, because there’s a different intensity being shown on the field. So as we go forward, that’s what this off-season is also good for. This is good for them. They went through last week and cliniced each other, how Mike wants every step and alignment and how he wants it communicated and then coached it on the field. You get a chance to practice coaching. Having been in that situation a few times myself, that’s good to get a chance to do that. ... A lot of things have been changed, I shouldn’t say everything, but a lot of things have been changed terminology wise. It’s a challenge to them, learning as well as physical."

[Kazkal]

Reports say Craig will beef back up to around 250. He's going to be nothing more than a situational pass rusher this season at best.

At 250 lbs, Craig's 40 is well over 5.0.....if you're large, you don't need as much speed, but when you are small (as he is) you had better have speed. He has neither. Wasted draft pick. He might make the practice squad IF there are a large number of injuries at the DE spot, otherwise he's gone.

Hamstring injury.

[HoosierCat]

Here's Hobson's take:

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6777

Not much that hasn't already been said, but this was noteworthy IMO:

FULL PLATE: Another UC guy making a position switch is Bradley Glatthaar, making the move from running back to fullback. At 5-11, 245 pounds running backs coach Jim Anderson thinks Glatthaar's size and aggressiveness is going to help in the switch. He worked out of short-yardage last season in Clifton with a team-leading eight rushing touchdowns on 48 carries."

"He's a thick guy in his legs," Anderson said. "Strong legs. He moves well and I think he can make the transition because of his athleticism and size and that should help him on special teams. He's really got to immerse himself there if he's going to get a spot."

The Bengals would seem set at fullback with Jeremi Johnson still working on a long-term contract. But lately they haven't been enamored with his conditioning and there seems to be a put-up-or-else mentality when it comes to all aspects of the running game. They also have another college free agent fullback in Ohio State's Tyler Whaley.

It seems Jeremi still hasn't gotten it...

[GregCook]

Here's Hobson's take:

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6777

Not much that hasn't already been said, but this was noteworthy IMO:

FULL PLATE: Another UC guy making a position switch is Bradley Glatthaar, making the move from running back to fullback. At 5-11, 245 pounds running backs coach Jim Anderson thinks Glatthaar's size and aggressiveness is going to help in the switch. He worked out of short-yardage last season in Clifton with a team-leading eight rushing touchdowns on 48 carries."

"He's a thick guy in his legs," Anderson said. "Strong legs. He moves well and I think he can make the transition because of his athleticism and size and that should help him on special teams. He's really got to immerse himself there if he's going to get a spot."

The Bengals would seem set at fullback with Jeremi Johnson still working on a long-term contract. But lately they haven't been enamored with his conditioning and there seems to be a put-up-or-else mentality when it comes to all aspects of the running game. They also have another college free agent fullback in Ohio State's Tyler Whaley.

It seems Jeremi still hasn't gotten it...

This is the season for "shocka" player changes since there are 2 new defensive coaches. That is why I do think players like JT, DJackson, Deltha will feel pressure in camp. I could see those guys getting cut. On offense, Jeremi, Bobbie Williams, Rudi all could be cut.

[TJJackson]

Reports say Craig will beef back up to around 250. He's going to be nothing more than a situational pass rusher this season at best.

At 250 lbs, Craig's 40 is well over 5.0.....if you're large, you don't need as much speed, but when you are small (as he is) you had better have speed. He has neither. Wasted draft pick. He might make the practice squad IF there are a large number of injuries at the DE spot, otherwise he's gone.

Hamstring injury.

No...combine timing

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:SBcby...;cd=2&gl=us

[mgilgris]

I have never really been impressed with Jeremy Johnson, the guy comes in overweight every year and was once one of the highest paid full backs in the league. Anyway on that note, I am not sure how him being cut would help the cap but any thoughts on them keeping more tight ends and maybe coverting one to a fullback/ TE. It may seem a bit improbable but it has been done by a couple of teams.

I dont think many LB's would want to see reggie kelly come lumbering around on a sweep, plus it would open up another passing option for palmer.

Regardless, this was just a creative (maybe dumb) thought. I have never really been impressed with our fullback play the past couple of years.

[HoosierCat]

In fairness to Jeremi, for a fullback he's got good hands. In his first three years he caught 43 balls for 200 yards and 5 TDs -- better than 1 score every 9 throws. That's in addition to 26 runs for 60 yards and 1 TD over the same span. Pretty good performance for a FB in this day and age.

But over the last two years, while he still got his allotment of touches in the run game (22 carries, 81 yards, 1 TD), he only caught 12 passes, for 69 yards and a TD. So the ability is clearly still there but for some reason the Bengals have gone away from getting him the ball, a fact several posters (most notably Hair) have pointed out for a while now. Why is anyone's guess. Especially last season, with all the problems at RB, you'd think they would have looked at him more, but he ended up with the fewest touches of his career, 13 (7 runs, 6 receptions, one for a TD). It's certainly possible it reflects some disappointment with his ongoing conditioning issues.

[jjakq27]

DDN Mini Camp review

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/o...8spbengals.html

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Let's put it this way, Joe - if we enter this season with John Thornton as our best DT, it's all over anyway. I think Peko is better and one of our new fatties better be too.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be part of a rotation, though, and that's why he won't be cut. The fatties can't play every play.

How can the team demote John Thornton from being a starter, yet leave him as defensive captain? That just doesn't work. Either he starts, or he is cut. There is no in between.

I don't really care who the defensive captain is. It's an honorary title that means absolutely nothing. I wouldn't preserve the sanctity of the defensive captain concept while making the team worse. In my opinion, starting JT makes the team worse, and cutting him probably does too.

Besides, who says the captain needs to be the official starter at DT? He'll still get reps.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Collins has no idea why he sat so long in the draft and why there have been reports that he's a red flag. He had been assigned to room with cornerback Aqib Talib early in his college career and when Talib emerged in the draft with some character questions, Collins may have been lumped in association.

Sounds like this kid got a bad rap from rooming with a bad character, that is going a long way to bash the Bengals for drafting character risks.

Looks like the Bengals picked up a good lineman at least a round later due to false accusations.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Collins has no idea why he sat so long in the draft and why there have been reports that he's a red flag. He had been assigned to room with cornerback Aqib Talib early in his college career and when Talib emerged in the draft with some character questions, Collins may have been lumped in association.

Sounds like this kid got a bad rap from rooming with a bad character, that is going a long way to bash the Bengals for drafting character risks.

Looks like the Bengals picked up a good lineman at least a round later due to false accusations.

What I like best is that this gives Cincinnati some leverage in re-signing Stacy and if he leaves that have his replacement in waiting and an extra 8 million in cap room that can be used to add another impact defensive player (hopefully). Another scenario is that if they trade Chad after June 1st and don't resign Stacy since they have Collins, they still net nearly 3 million in cap space and perhaps another 1st and 3rd in the '09 draft. Best selection, long term, in the draft.

[HAPPYJAQ]

In fairness to Jeremi, for a fullback he's got good hands. In his first three years he caught 43 balls for 200 yards and 5 TDs -- better than 1 score every 9 throws. That's in addition to 26 runs for 60 yards and 1 TD over the same span. Pretty good performance for a FB in this day and age.

But over the last two years, while he still got his allotment of touches in the run game (22 carries, 81 yards, 1 TD), he only caught 12 passes, for 69 yards and a TD. So the ability is clearly still there but for some reason the Bengals have gone away from getting him the ball, a fact several posters (most notably Hair) have pointed out for a while now. Why is anyone's guess. Especially last season, with all the problems at RB, you'd think they would have looked at him more, but he ended up with the fewest touches of his career, 13 (7 runs, 6 receptions, one for a TD). It's certainly possible it reflects some disappointment with his ongoing conditioning issues.

I agree that his conditioning has been an issue and it has since his days at Ballard High School here in Louisville (where he was a MUCH better LB than RB). I think if he's right, he's still one of the 3 or 4 best FB's in the league and has been an AFC Pro Bowl alternate 2 out of the past 3 seasons at a position that is 1 deep in the Pro Bowl. That says something. I also agree that the Bengals should get him some more touches and I always thought, due to his size and athleticism, he'd be a great short-yardage and goal line back. He was a great runner at Western Kentucky, as a tailback and earlier at his collegiate career at Indiana. With the new commitment to power running this year, maybe he'll get a look.

[jjakq27]

This is the season for "shocka" player changes since there are 2 new defensive coaches. That is why I do think players like JT, DJackson, Deltha will feel pressure in camp. I could see those guys getting cut. On offense, Jeremi, Bobbie Williams, Rudi all could be cut.

Who are the pre-Marvin guys that are left? Willie, Levi, Chad, Rudi, Brad St. Louis and TJ. I think one or two will be gone before the season starts and I wouldn't be surprised if all of them are gone next year. There are some pretty strong personalities in that group and if Marvin is ever going to make this his team and be successful, I think they will relieve themselves of the bitchers (to quote Dick Vermeil).

As for the veteran guys that came in under Marvin, I could see Bobbie Williams, Deltha, Dexter and Thornton getting released this year if they don't step it up.

I think the youth movement at the end of the season in the secondary might give them reason to believe that it could work on the O-Line with the early success of Collins in rookie camp (See ya Bobbie).

Same thing at fullback. I mean the Bengals let Lorenzo Neal walk prior to 2003 and he is considered one of the best FBs of his generation, so I don't see JJ as a sacred cow (figure of speech) considering that he seems out of shape every year. That's what got the last regime in trouble. It would take 8 games for guys to work themselves into shape and by then you are out of it. So I'd like to see Glatthaar give JJ a run for his money, maybe land on the PS this year and make the team next year as the FB. I saw him play some in HS and he crushed people whenever he was the lead blocker. I know it is only HS but he was also a good goal line runner at UC which is something we sorely need.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Whatever happened to Maurice Purify coming in for a tryout? Did he even show up? He's 6-4, 220 and dominated Aquib Talib and Kansas last year (3 TD's). I was wondering how he might do? Anybody know what happened?

[Defender]

Whatever happened to Maurice Purify coming in for a tryout? Did he even show up? He's 6-4, 220 and dominated Aquib Talib and Kansas last year (3 TD's). I was wondering how he might do? Anybody know what happened?

Purify comes with significant character baggage. He had had two separate run-ins with the law in five weeks during the off-season leading up to his senior season. And according to Scouts, Inc. he doesn't always give his best effort on the field (not a crisp route-runner, run blocking is spotty). Just because he had a good game against Talib doesn't off-set these weaknesses. Ted Ginn owned Leon Hall but in the long run in the league, I think Hall is/will be a better CB than Ginn will be a WR.

[HoosierCat]

According to his agent, Purify will sign with Cincy this week:

http://www.eurekareporter.com/article/0805...with-cincinnati

[Pidge]

Defender will be happy.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Whatever happened to Maurice Purify coming in for a tryout? Did he even show up? He's 6-4, 220 and dominated Aquib Talib and Kansas last year (3 TD's). I was wondering how he might do? Anybody know what happened?

Purify comes with significant character baggage. He had had two separate run-ins with the law in five weeks during the off-season leading up to his senior season. And according to Scouts, Inc. he doesn't always give his best effort on the field (not a crisp route-runner, run blocking is spotty). Just because he had a good game against Talib doesn't off-set these weaknesses. Ted Ginn owned Leon Hall but in the long run in the league, I think Hall is/will be a better CB than Ginn will be a WR.

He hasn't had any off the field incidents since last July. Since then, his older brother was murdered and his girlfriend died in a traffic accident. Despite that, he still had a productive Senior season and was voted MVP of the Nebraska football team by his coaches and teammates. He might be one of the guys who FINALLY gets it and he just turned 22 in January. I hope he does well and the Bengals give him a shot.

[jjakq27]

While it is too early to tell how many guys will actually stick, I will give the team credit for getting guys in here in an attempt to improve the team. It may just be my impression but it seems like there has been a bit of a buzz created by the draft and the UFA's that they have brought in. Status quo hasn't worked the last two years and I hope that guys on the team are taking notice and respond. If not, I've got no problem with unloading some older guys and going young. Look at Ndukwe and White at the end of last year.

[Defender]

He hasn't had any off the field incidents since last July. Since then, his older brother was murdered and his girlfriend died in a traffic accident. Despite that, he still had a productive Senior season and was voted MVP of the Nebraska football team by his coaches and teammates. He might be one of the guys who FINALLY gets it and he just turned 22 in January. I hope he does well and the Bengals give him a shot.

I would agree with you if there was some definitive way to determine that he won't put himself in the wrong situations, but recent history hasn't been good with players like this. His charges include two counts of assault, resisting arrest, trespassing, failure to comply, and drunk driving a month later; not exactly the model of how to handle adversity. Bottom line is that you can't depend on a player like that.

I just compared the Scouts, Inc. biographies of Chris Henry in 2005 and Maurice Purify in 2008. This guy is Chris Henry with less talent. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see the guy get his life straightened out, just not on this football team.

[HAPPYJAQ]

He hasn't had any off the field incidents since last July. Since then, his older brother was murdered and his girlfriend died in a traffic accident. Despite that, he still had a productive Senior season and was voted MVP of the Nebraska football team by his coaches and teammates. He might be one of the guys who FINALLY gets it and he just turned 22 in January. I hope he does well and the Bengals give him a shot.

I would agree with you if there was some definitive way to determine that he won't put himself in the wrong situations, but recent history hasn't been good with players like this. His charges include two counts of assault, resisting arrest, trespassing, failure to comply, and drunk driving a month later; not exactly the model of how to handle adversity. Bottom line is that you can't depend on a player like that.

I just compared the Scouts, Inc. biographies of Chris Henry in 2005 and Maurice Purify in 2008. This guy is Chris Henry with less talent. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see the guy get his life straightened out, just not on this football team.

I definitely understand your point in light of the recent Chris Henry saga, but the facts regarding Purify is that he has only had 2 off the field incidents in his collegiate career. I am one who believes that many people make mistakes early on if life and can be turned around to be productive people. I am a living example of that. Another example is T.J. Houshmandzadeh, who didn't even graduate from HIGH SCHOOL. All I am saying is he hasn't had in problems in the last year. His coaches and teammates thought enough of him to vote him for MVP. Give him a chance and see what happens, if it works out, he's a steal! If not, you cut him and it doesn't cost the team much, if anything. The fact that he came here on a try out and obviously performed very well says that football is important to him.

[JoePong]

Purify remeninds me of a bigger Anquan Boldin. I think he'll be good.

And did I read correctly? Did someone actually say they think Bobbie Williams is in danger of being cut? That may be the most ridiculous thing I have read. He has been our best and most reliable O-Lineman over the last couple season. You must be insane if you think they are going to get rid of any quality O-Lineman after we have been decimated by injuries lately.

[jjakq27]

And did I read correctly? Did someone actually say they think Bobbie Williams is in danger of being cut? That may be the most ridiculous thing I have read. He has been our best and most reliable O-Lineman over the last couple season. You must be insane if you think they are going to get rid of any quality O-Lineman after we have been decimated by injuries lately.

Better call the funny farm then.

Mike Goff was a much better player than Williams who was supposed to be an upgrade when they signed him. He always looks so out of shape and may have been the best thing going last year only beacuse everyone else was hurt and he played next to Ghiachuc.

As you can tell I am not a big fan. Besides he's ripe to be a cap casualty regardless of his play.

[HAPPYJAQ]

And did I read correctly? Did someone actually say they think Bobbie Williams is in danger of being cut? That may be the most ridiculous thing I have read. He has been our best and most reliable O-Lineman over the last couple season. You must be insane if you think they are going to get rid of any quality O-Lineman after we have been decimated by injuries lately.

Better call the funny farm then.

Mike Goff was a much better player than Williams who was supposed to be an upgrade when they signed him. He always looks so out of shape and may have been the best thing going last year only beacuse everyone else was hurt and he played next to Ghiachuc.

As you can tell I am not a big fan. Besides he's ripe to be a cap casualty regardless of his play.

Bobbie Williams was the most consistent lineman last year, BY FAR. Although he might not be as flashy or as adept in pulling (which I think is something the offense, especially Rudi, sorely misses) as Steinbach, he more than held his own this past year. This is even more impressive considering that the Bengals ran a lot of combo blocks with the C and LG (because of injuries/ineffectiveness) last year which left Bobbie one on one a lot of times with the 3-technique DT. I don't recall him getting beat a lot in pass, either, which has always been his his weakness. He was good pickup as the best RG the Bengals have had in years and I hope they resign him.