What if?

[DesperateDerelict]

As it is Long seems unfairly labeled as a product of hype. A try hard guy with modest skills, right? (Bull.)

Well, yeah, that would be bull...if anyone was saying that.

Well, what exactly are you guys saying?

"I have never understood why everybody was so high on Chris Long." --- Desperate Derelict

"I tend to agree with the notion that he's maxxed out. High floor, but low ceiling." --- HoosierCat

I am not, and never was, "down" on Chris Long. However, by temperment as well as choice, I am both an optimist and a risk-taker (which is probably why I suck at poker ). A top ten pick should be a relatively rare occurence, and a team should do it's utmost to get a game-changing, impact player. I don't believe Chris Long can be that impact player.

If I get a DE in the top 10, I want a double digit sacker - year in and year out. I want someone the other team has to 'scheme' for. Similarly, if it's an OT, I want a wall that delivers more pancakes than Denny's. My top 10 DT should routinely beat double teams and disrupt the offense. A top 10 linebacker should be fast, smart, and make Urlacher look like a p***y. etc etc.

I'm sure Chris will have a very fine NFL career, and help sell alot of jerseys. However, unless he's in a perfect scheme with alot of talent around him, he'll NEVER be a double digit sack guy. He probably will never make a pro-bowl. However, he IS a safe pick.

Players in this draft with the potential to be annual double digit sack guys (or total busts): Gholston, Harvey, Groves (assuming his ticker is good), Avril, and some rush LB's (Howard, Keglar, etc).

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If the Bengal's mission statement is to win a Super Bowl, let's get some defensive pro-bowlers in here, and make Offensive Coordinators lie awake at night.

[BengalszoneBilly]

If the Bengal's mission statement is to win a Super Bowl, let's get some defensive pro-bowlers in here, and make Offensive Coordinators lie awake at night.

That is the ONLY way Cincinnati will make it back to the pinnacle of the NFL. It won't be with offense. We've had that, and it's NEVER paid off.

DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!

[HoosierCat]

And again, your opinion that Long should be passed on should he fall to #9 is ample proof you don't feel he's worthy of that spot.

More bull. The original question wasn't "what if Chris Long is there at 9, should we take him" but "what if we had to pick between Ellis and Long"? I take Ellis because he fills a greater need and we already have $60 million invested in DE with Geathers and Odom. I have never said anywhere I don't think Long is worth the 9th pick...in fact in this thread I specifically said he was.

[HairOnFire]

I have never said anywhere I don't think Long is worth the 9th pick...in fact in this thread I specifically said he was.

Aren't you the same guy who just claimed Chris Long would never make a single Pro Bowl and would never produce 10 sacks in any season unless he fell into the perfect scheme? The same guy who claimed Long was maxxed out before he ever played an NFL snap? The same guy who keeps talking about a low ceiling and non-impact?

Yup, Chris Long, solid and safe...like an ugly girl with big hips. She'll never cheat on you.

Sheesh, you're all over the place. You claim you've never been down on the guy, never claimed he wasn't worthy of a Top 10 pick, and never claimed he was just a try hard guy with modest skills. Helluva player, right? And then you go on to say the exact opposite is in every post you write about the guy.

Wow.

[HoosierCat]

Aren't you the same guy who just claimed Chris Long would never make a single Pro Bowl and would never produce 10 sacks in any season unless he fell into the perfect scheme?

Nope.

I'm not all over the board. You are, as usual, just making sh*t up.

[DesperateDerelict]

Aren't you the same guy who just claimed Chris Long would never make a single Pro Bowl and would never produce 10 sacks in any season unless he fell into the perfect scheme?

C'est moi .

[HairOnFire]

Aren't you the same guy who just claimed Chris Long would never make a single Pro Bowl and would never produce 10 sacks in any season unless he fell into the perfect scheme?

Nope.

Nope? Well since you can't seem to keep your opinions straight let me refresh your memory.

"I tend to agree with the notion that he's maxxed out. High floor, but low ceiling." --- HoosierCat

"I don't believe Chris Long can be that impact player." --- HoosierCat

"I'm sure Chris will have a very fine NFL career, and help sell alot of jerseys." --- HoosierCat

" However, unless he's in a perfect scheme with alot of talent around him, he'll NEVER be a double digit sack guy." --- HoosierCat

"He probably will never make a pro-bowl." --- HoosierCat

I'm not all over the board. You are, as usual, just making sh*t up.

I'm not making s**t up. In fact, I'm directly quoting you.

[NJ29]

Justin Smith's father was a Missouri Farmer and while I am sure he was a great guy Chris Long's father is a Pro Football Hall of Famer, one of the smartest and best D-Linemen of his generation and one of the most respected men in the sport. Just like with Manning, Long has had the advatage of growing up immersed in football, his technique is far superior to Justin Smith's and he knows how to succeed in this game before even stepping onto the pratice field for the first practice.

This is not just about physical ability, it is about mental ability and desire and that is where Chris Long gets the nod over Justin Smith.

Are you serious? Wraith, normally we're on the same page, but I've got to call you on this one.

How similar are you to your Dad? Your grandfather? Are your sons "Mini-me Wraiths"? Arguing human pedigree is like arguing eugenics - you're not goin' to win, so don't start.

Chris Long, Virginia

Height: 6-3. Weight: 272.

40 Time: 4.73. Benchx225: Did Not Lift.

Vertical 34. Nickname: Howie Jr.

Justin Smith

Height: 6-4. Weight: 275.

40 Time: 4.69. Benchx225: 19.

Vertical 33. Nickname: Godzilla

Look at the measurables, and watch the tapes. I'll think you'll see alot of similaries between Chris & Justin . . . probably more than between Chris & Howie.

Look at the measurables all you want, they're not the same player. Smith tries to bull rush everyone, and hung his hat specifically on being a "tough guy". That being said, Long seems more prepared to dedicate time to film study, is much more polished and versatile as a pass rusher, and is much better fundamentally, specifically with his hands and leverage.

[HairOnFire]

That being said, Long seems more prepared to dedicate time to film study, is much more polished and versatile as a pass rusher, and is much better fundamentally, specifically with his hands and leverage.

DING!!!!!

Ex-Redskin/Texan GM Charlie Casserly said a few weeks ago that Chris Long's hand skills and punch are the best he's seen in at least the last 5 years. Plus, just two days ago ex-Titan GM Floyd Reese said a team would be foolish to take Vernon Gholston over Long....saying Gholston only does one thing well and often disappears for long stretches.

[HoosierCat]

"I tend to agree with the notion that he's maxxed out. High floor, but low ceiling." --- HoosierCat

That's the only one of your quotes I've said. Otherwise, you're just making sh*t up. Here, search my posts mentioning Long:

http://forums.bengalszone.com/index.php?ac...lite=Chris+Long

[Kazkal]

"I tend to agree with the notion that he's maxxed out. High floor, but low ceiling." --- HoosierCat

That's the only one of your quotes I've said. Otherwise, you're just making sh*t up. Here, search my posts mentioning Long:

http://forums.bengalszone.com/index.php?ac...lite=Chris+Long

I think he's mixing you up with DesperateDerelic who is the only one I've truly seen knocking on chris long.

If I get a DE in the top 10, I want a double digit sacker - year in and year out.

Ya because it always works out that way,I'd also take long over vernon.

[HairOnFire]

I think he's mixing you up with DesperateDerelic who is the only one I've truly seen knocking on chris long.

Hey, I think you're right.

I now offer my sincere apologies to the esteemed gentle man from the Hoosier state.

sends flowers/vows to learn French

[Wraith]

"Pete Rose Jr anyone?"

You can't honestly be comparing baseball to football, can you? Baseball is all about ability, there is very little about the game that is cerebral outside of catcher and pitcher. Football is all about dedication and the ability to diagnose what going on around you quickly. Long was trained to be a football player from birth which is why is more technically polished than any DE to come into the draft in recent years. Again Long is much more David Pollack then Justin Smith. Again Smith dominated in high school and college by brute strength and superior athletic ability which can only get you so far when you are competeing with other players who are just as strong and just as athletic, Pollack and Long were craftsmen, study film working on their game, Justin just spent time in the weightroom which was good enough for him to be a good not great NFL player, both Long and Pollack had a love for the game and for the nuances of the game that drives them to be great and Pollack would have been great if not for a freak injury which could have happened to anyone.

Again Chris Long would be the #1 player in my draft he would be a perfect 4-3 DE in the Bengals scheme