NFL Network Top 10 Mock

[Spor_tees]

I was watching NFL Network the other night and Charles Davis gave his Top 10 Pick Mock draft...he had the Bengals taking Ryan Clady! Damn the Bengals already have 2 of the top paid tackles in the league...then they franchised a tackle...so then they would draft another? They would be utterly retarded if they did. Out of anyone on the offensive line they have now, the first one I see them needing to replace is going to be Bobbie Williams either after this year or next. If all the defensive studs are gone, the best thing they could do is trade down, collect some picks and still select Jeff Otah. On some draft boards they have Otah falling as far as the late teens/early 20's. If the Bengals were to drop from #9 to the mid to late teens, they could pick up an extra third or maybe even a late second round pick.

[TJJackson]

Damn the Bengals already have 2 of the top paid tackles in the league...then they franchised a tackle...so then they would draft another? They would be utterly retarded if they did.

Nope, the only utterly retarded thing I see is your analysis above

Let me state the obvious here just for you, as pretty much anyone else (the JoePongs and Agreens of the world excepted) already understand this

First, both of our tackles have lingering injury issues, and Willy has a lot of miles on him. Despite the fact that we have a lot of money invested in them (money that many argue should have gone to retain the much younger Steinbach), we cannot be sure they will be able to start week in and week out. Bobbie did miss some time but has been more reliable overall. Nonetheless, he is getting up there in age and is also starting to deteriorate.

Second, if you want to talk about some major money we have invested, I point you at Carson Palmer. Many believe (include me) that as long as we have Carson Palmer under center, we have a chance to win. He's a difference maker. So you want to keep a strong and capable offensive line around him to give him the time he needs to make his reads and throws.

Third, add all that up - we have an aging/deteriorating line but have enormous incentive to protect Carson Palmer. So please, tell us again how retarded it is to add a talented young lineman to shore up the OLine and protect Carson?

Finally - we of Bengalszone have been discussing OL's as a possibility at pick 9 for weeks (months?) now, with Clady being the primary player under consideration (Jake Long is expected to go higher, others expected to go lower). Where have you been?

[HoosierCat]

So please, tell us again how retarded it is to add a talented young lineman to shore up the OLine and protect Carson?

It isn't. But that said, I agree with sportees that they aren't going to do it at 9. Maybe in he second but probably in the 3rd-4th.

My bet is that, if both Ellis and Dorsey are gone (and they will be), the Bengals will be the first to pull a wide receiver off the board. If I had to put a name next to that pick, it'd be Indiana's James Hardy. 6-6, 220, 79 receptions, 1,125 yards, 16 TDs in the Big Ten last year. The guy is plug-and-play.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Personally I have no problem drafting a lineman at #9, but I would prefer it would be a defensive one. If Dorsey, Ghoulston, and Ellis are all off the board at this point, take him. Control the LOS, control the game.

[Spor_tees]

Damn the Bengals already have 2 of the top paid tackles in the league...then they franchised a tackle...so then they would draft another? They would be utterly retarded if they did.

Nope, the only utterly retarded thing I see is your analysis above

Let me state the obvious here just fo you, as pretty much anyone else (the JoePongs and Agreens of the world excepted) already understand this

First, both of our tackles have lingering injury issues, and Willy has a lot of miles on him. Despite the fact that we have a lot of money invested in them (money that many argue should have gone to retain the much younger Steinbach), we cannot b sure they will be able to start week in and week out. Bobbie did miss some time but has been more reliable overall. Nonetheless, he is gettign up there in age and is also starting to deteriorate.

Second, if you want to talk about some major money we have invested, I point you at Carson Palmer. Many believe (include me) that as long as we have Carson Palmer under center, we have a chance to win. He's a difference maker. S you want to keep a strong and capable offensive line around him to give him the time he needs to make his reads and throws.

Third, add all that up - we have an aging/deteriorating line but have enormous incentive to protect Carson Palmer. So please, tell us again how retarded it is to add a talented young lineman to shore up the OLine and protect Carson?

Finally - we of Bengalszone have been discussing OL's as a possibility at pick 9 for weeks (months?) now, with Clady being the primary player under consideration (Jake Long is expected to go higher, others expected to go lower). Where have you been?

So you think they are going to cut Levi and take the dead cap space? Or do you think they are going to pay him Millions of dollars to sit on the bench? Even if they did get rid of Willie or he retired, they have a franchised tackle in Stacey Andrews. And if something to happenned to 2 of the above, they still have Whitworth who is versatile enough to move back out to tackle, which was his college position. If any spot on the O-line needs help, it is guard and Otah is the top guard but not worthy of the #9 pick. Now since you decided to attack me and put me below the JoePongs and agreens of the world, let me tell you how retarded it would be to take your advice and once again take what would equate to a back up player and ignore the NUMEROUS holes that remain on one of the worst defenses in the NFL. Now sir, that would be retarded.

[ArmyBengal]

I still think it will be a guard and not a tackle. Hopefully someone versatile enough to play both positions though...

WHODEY !!!

[TJJackson]

So you think they are going to cut Levi and take the dead cap space?

Probably not. But if he can't go due to injury, you still have to have someone out there at LT, preferably someone who can more than adequately protect Carson.

Or do you think they are going to pay him Millions of dollars to sit on the bench?

Again, it is injuries we are talking about here, not ability. A healthy Levi starts and excels. An injured Levi sits and collects his pay. Yeah, we have to pay players even when they are on the bench. The CBA, you know?

Even if they did get rid of Willie or he retired, they have a franchised tackle in Stacey Andrews. And if something to happenned to 2 of the above, they still have Whitworth who is versatile enough to move back out to tackle, which was his college position.

You see how you are stretching into backups, into depth, right? Keep in mind, you also have to start looking to replace Bobbie, who is fairly old in NFL terms as well.

Another problem, a big one - the franchised tackle you are talking about has given exactly zero indication that he is willing to sign a long term deal. We've been negotiating, trying to get a long-term extension for over 12 months now - and nada. What exactly happens to this line next year, when Willie, Levi and Bobbie are all yet a year more aged and your savior Andrews walks away? Would you prefer to plug in a raw rookie or would you rather have a 2nd year player who has had a full year learning this system and meshing with the other lineman? Quite frankly, if Andrews doesn't sign long term before draft day, you need to figure he will walk after 2008 - and you must draft his replacement.

If any spot on the O-line needs help, it is guard and Otah is the top guard but not worthy of the #9 pick.

The Bengals generally prefer to draft tackles and work them into the lineup initially as guards, ala both Whitworth and Andrews. Clady is most certainly a fine pick at 9 by most reckonings, and could be worked in at guard. And he sounds talented enough that he might take a starting spot.

If you control the line of scrimmage, you can usually win the game. Heck, with a strong enough OLine you don't need a premier running back. Check out the Broncos, who had a different thousand yard runner every year for several years. They could plug in anyone at tailback - the line opened holes anyone could get through.

take what would equate to a back up player and ignore the NUMEROUS holes that remain on one of the worst defenses in the NFL. Now sir, that would be retarded

Not at all. I too would prefer one of the two DTs. But if they are gone, other than trading down, and assuming the tp two DEs are also gone, OT is still probably our best way to go. I wouldn't be ignoring the defense - I would be addressing the D in r2. One pick to O does not equate to ignoring the D. May I also remind you that strengthening our weak run offense by bolsterign our blocking has the effect of keeping the other teams defense off the field, ergo improving our overall defense?

[TJJackson]

if both Ellis and Dorsey are gone (and they will be), the Bengals will be the first to pull a wide receiver off the board

Not impossible - this team is after all run by the the king of all idiots, Mike Brown - but there will be a lot of screaming if that happens.

[BengalszoneBilly]

if both Ellis and Dorsey are gone (and they will be), the Bengals will be the first to pull a wide receiver off the board

Not impossible - this team is after all run by the the king of all idiots, Mike Brown - but there will be a lot of screaming if that happens.

I'll lead that screaming choir.

[TJJackson]

I will join that choir, Billy.

They should draft a WR, yes - but not at 9. Round 4 at the earliest.

[HoosierCat]

if both Ellis and Dorsey are gone (and they will be), the Bengals will be the first to pull a wide receiver off the board

Not impossible - this team is after all run by the the king of all idiots, Mike Brown - but there will be a lot of screaming if that happens.

I'll lead that screaming choir.

Well, if the Bengals do go offense, IMO WR is the way to go. Obviously, we don't need a QB. We have five guys in the mix at RB. Offensive line can be addressed later since, with Whit and Stacy on hand, our primary need is for depth at guard. And it looks like Utecht will take care of the TE slot (not that there was any TE who would have made sense at 9).

However, at wideout, we have 30-year-old Chad Johnson, whose performance dropped last season and who went mental a month ago; TJ, who's 31, in a contract year, and reportedly wants to paid like a No. 1 here or allowed to escape and seek some team that will; and young Chris Henry, who is a traffic stop away from another suspension. And behind that, we got nutin'. Our $100 million QB ain't gonna be worth $0.02 with no one to throw to.

Why might the Bengals turn to the offense at 9? If Dorsey and Ellis are gone (likely), DT pickings grow slim. DE and CB already have high picks and/or big money dedicated to two guys apiece. The Bengals don't draft safeties in the first, and even if they did, Kenny Phillips' star has fallen. So...roll the dice on DT Kentwan Balmer, take the safe pick at LB in Keith Rivers...or take the top WR on your board.

[TJJackson]

Chad in a "down year" still had 93 catches and is under contract for a while yet. If his production drops 20%, he is still a 75 catch guy.....as good as most number 1 receivers out there

TJ might well get away after next year. Hard to say. At leats he's under contract ths year, which means we can keep him with the franchise tag NEXT year. That gives us two years with him, whereas we have only one year with Andrews

Who do you think breaks down first - Chad or Willy/Levi? My money is on the WR lasting longer, particularly with his penchant for seeking the ground or sideline prior to contact.

Agreed on Henry

But your argument about depth and departures at WR can also be made for the OL, and I will argue that good receivers are adequate if the OL gives Carson time to throw and receivers time to get open. So I would disagree about Carson being worthless without receivers to throw to.

[BengalszoneBilly]

if both Ellis and Dorsey are gone (and they will be), the Bengals will be the first to pull a wide receiver off the board

Not impossible - this team is after all run by the the king of all idiots, Mike Brown - but there will be a lot of screaming if that happens.

I'll lead that screaming choir.

Well, if the Bengals do go offense, IMO WR is the way to go. Obviously, we don't need a QB. We have five guys in the mix at RB. Offensive line can be addressed later since, with Whit and Stacy on hand, our primary need is for depth at guard. And it looks like Utecht will take care of the TE slot (not that there was any TE who would have made sense at 9).

However, at wideout, we have 30-year-old Chad Johnson, whose performance dropped last season and who went mental a month ago; TJ, who's 31, in a contract year, and reportedly wants to paid like a No. 1 here or allowed to escape and seek some team that will; and young Chris Henry, who is a traffic stop away from another suspension. And behind that, we got nutin'. Our $100 million QB ain't gonna be worth $0.02 with no one to throw to.

Why might the Bengals turn to the offense at 9? If Dorsey and Ellis are gone (likely), DT pickings grow slim. DE and CB already have high picks and/or big money dedicated to two guys apiece. The Bengals don't draft safeties in the first, and even if they did, Kenny Phillips' star has fallen. So...roll the dice on DT Kentwan Balmer, take the safe pick at LB in Keith Rivers...or take the top WR on your board.

If it's all the same to you Dave, I'd rather draft the top offensive lineman off the board at that point, and take a wide receiver or running back at no earlier than #3/#4.

[TJJackson]

Dave? Dave Shula?

I'm with you, Billy

[BengalszoneBilly]

Dave? Dave Shula?

I'm with you, Billy

No, no, no! David/Hoosiercat has NOTHING to do with Shula.

[DesperateDerelict]

......Indiana's James Hardy. 6-6, 220, 79 receptions, 1,125 yards, 16 TDs in the Big Ten last year. The guy is plug-and-play.

Sorry, Hoosier-buddy, Hardy has way too many character issues for the Bengals to pick. Anyway, although lacking the star power of previous years, the draft is so deep this year in good #2 recievers, we can get a very good reciever in the 3rd or 4th round.

If both top DE's and both top DT's are gone, and we don't get a decent trade offer, our choices are reaches on defensive front 7 (Harvey, Merling, Balmer, Rivers, Connors), a CB (Jenkins, Cromartie-Rodgers, or McKelvin), a RB (Mendenhall or Stewart), or an OT (Clady or Williams).

All good players, but none truly 'elite' or worth top 10 $$$$.

[BengalszoneBilly]

......Indiana's James Hardy. 6-6, 220, 79 receptions, 1,125 yards, 16 TDs in the Big Ten last year. The guy is plug-and-play.

Sorry, Hoosier-buddy, Hardy has way too many character issues for the Bengals to pick. Anyway, although lacking the star power of previous years, the draft is so deep this year in good #2 recievers, we can get a very good reciever in the 3rd or 4th round.

If both top DE's and both top DT's are gone, and we don't get a decent trade offer, our choices are reaches on defensive front 7 (Harvey, Merling, Balmer, Rivers, Connors), a CB (Jenkins, Cromartie-Rodgers, or McKelvin), a RB (Mendenhall or Stewart), or an OT (Clady or Williams).

All good players, but none truly 'elite' or worth top 10 $$$$.

I believe you are mistaken. Clady is worth top 10 $$$ IMHO.

[Wraith]

As is Merling IMHO

[TJJackson]

Despite his health?

Are you serious?

[HoosierCat]

Sorry, Hoosier-buddy, Hardy has way too many character issues for the Bengals to pick. Anyway, although lacking the star power of previous years, the draft is so deep this year in good #2 recievers, we can get a very good reciever in the 3rd or 4th round.

Hardy has one two-year-old domestic incident that I know of. It doesn't concern me. However, feel free to plug in another receiver's name, I don't mind. And no, I'm not interested in another No. 2, I'm interested in another No. 1.

Like I said before, I have serious doubts that TJ will be back after this season. Rumors over the last year or so are that he wants No. 1 WR money, and would prefer to go to a West Coast team to be closer to home. Throw in the Bengals' usual age phobia and that's a recipe for departure -- unless they are willing to lower the franchise boom.

Meanwhile, if fan consensus means anything, it's only a matter of time before "more douchebaggery" is forthcoming from the Chad Johnson camp as part of his "trade me campaign." That isn't going to happen this year, but if the Bengals find a replacement, they have the option of shopping him next year. Alternatively, they could take a WR in the first this year and then execute a draft day trade this year, though that would be far, far riskier.

[DesperateDerelict]

... feel free to plug in another receiver's name, I don't mind. And no, I'm not interested in another No. 2, I'm interested in another No. 1.

It looks like these 3 are still ahead of Hardy, despite some warts:

Malcolm Kelly, Oklahoma (More of a great #2 - see Larry Fitzgerald)

Height: 6-3. Weight: 224.

40 Time: 4.47.

DeSean Jackson, California (A faster Ted Ginn. See Santana Moss)

Height: 5-9. Weight: 169.

40 Time: 4.31.

Limas Sweed, Texas (A Chris Henry clone, without the 15 year old girls)

Height: 6-4. Weight: 216.

40 Time: 4.46.

I believe you are mistaken. Clady is worth top 10 $$$ IMHO.

As is Merling.

Williams (Vanderbilt), because of his intelligence, has passed Clady on alot of boards. The problem, as previously pointed out, is all the $$$$ tied up by Levi, Willie, and now Stacy.

Merling is rated as an asset against the run and a liability rushing the QB. I'd much rather reach for Groves or Harvey - at least they need to be game - planned against.

[HoosierCat]

... feel free to plug in another receiver's name, I don't mind. And no, I'm not interested in another No. 2, I'm interested in another No. 1.

It looks like these 3 are still ahead of Hardy, despite some warts:

Malcolm Kelly, Oklahoma (More of a great #2 - see Larry Fitzgerald)

Height: 6-3. Weight: 224.

40 Time: 4.47.

DeSean Jackson, California (A faster Ted Ginn. See Santana Moss)

Height: 5-9. Weight: 169.

40 Time: 4.31.

Limas Sweed, Texas (A Chris Henry clone, without the 15 year old girls)

Height: 6-4. Weight: 216.

40 Time: 4.46.

Yup. Hardy just attracts me more because he appears NFL-ready, yet seems also to have a very high ceiling -- didn't play football in HS until his junior year, recruited by UI as a basketball player, spent his redshirt year on the b-ball team, then shifted gears and proceeded to tear it up on the gridiron. (And yeah, I know, when you talk about thing like "potential" and "upside" in connection with bengals drafts, it's usually a recipe for disaster, but I'm feeling optimistic this year.)

That said, there's no doubt he'd be a big reach at 9; I'd much see him in stripes after a trade down

[chrishcovga]

I don't think Clady, Williams, or Otah are any safer picks than Brandon Albert OG/OT, Virginia.

- He's as good an athlete as D'Brickashaw Ferguson was coming out of Virginia, the only knock on him, is that he played inside, but I would be Thrilled to have Albert over any of the other prospects. 6-6 310, with great feet, very long arms, most scouts see him as a better left tackle prospect than half of the tackles in this draft.

- Drafting Albert gives us immediate depth, has the athleticism to play 4 different spots on the offensive line, and would still come cheaper than Andrews,Anderson,Jones, and Williams.

Now he's a great athlete, but he's not #9, so a trade down ahead of Pittsburgh, where most mocks see Albert going would be best.