Chad Johnson, from an Eagle fan

[EagleFan1]

OK, guys, I'm sure you're all really sick of Chad Johnson threads, but I'm hoping you'll bear with me on this one. I'm an Eagle fan, and we're looking to upgrade our receivers. Talk is mostly centered around Fitzgerald and Williams, but it seems any deal for those guys would cost us Lito Sheppard, and a lot of fans don't want to see him go. The latest rumor is that the Eagles offered Sheppard and Reggie Brown, or Sheppard, Brown, and a 1st, for Fitzgerald. I think it's pretty unlikely.

Anyway, Johnson doesn't get much talk because of his ego, (I think a lot of us still haven't gotten over T.O. - Eagle fans never let anything go), but I wanted to find out what his relative value is, without giving up Sheppard.

I read a rumor that the Redskins had offered a 1st and 3rd, so I wanted to find out what you guys thought about WR Reggie Brown plus our 1st-rounder (#19) for Johnson. My thought is Brown is worth about a 2nd-round pick (he was drafted #35, and has more or less lived up to that).

I know there's concern about the guaranteed money, but this trade is unique in that Brown is also due about $8 million in guaranteed money that the Eagles would have to eat, which would cancel out the $8 million you guys owe Chad (in other words, you pay Chad's bonus but are off the hook for Brown's). Both teams would have to count the entire $8 million against this years cap, but at the same time, we both are about $30 million under, so it's not a big deal.

Outside of the bonus, Brown has a fantastic contract, he's signed through 2014 for only about $12 million in base salary.

Here's the breakdown:

2008: $547,000

2009: $644,000

2010: $1,000,000

2011: $1,200,000

2012: $1,600,000

2013: $3,000,000

2014: $3,700,000

Also, here's Brown's receiving numbers, for anybody who doesn't feel like going over to NFL.com:

2005: 43 / 571 / 13.3 / 4

2006: 46 / 816 / 17.7 / 8

2007: 61 / 780 / 12.8 / 4

Last year was supposed to be his breakout year, but a lot happened with McNabb having a bad year and the O-line falling apart in pass protection. My guess is you can expect about 60-70 catches for 900-1000 yards per season from Brown. He's a great athlete and a good run-blocker, but has concentration lapses that he'll have to get over.

So Brown's a good receiver, but the Eagles FO wants to make a run this year, and we'll need a top receiver that can really dominate and draw safety help. Brown is more of a #2 kind of guy, which would still work since Housh really emerged for you last year.

So, there it is. What do you guys think? Is Reggie Brown and our 1st (#19) for Johnson a good deal?

[Horsemen]

Tell ya what. You send us your first and Brown i'll get Cincy to give your fellas Chris Henry. Deal?

[bryce40]

Um, NO WAY would I want Cincy to even consider that deal. The only receiver I can even think of I would think about giving Chad up for would be Larry Fitzgerald.

[bengalsfan17]

i would give him up for just about anything right now.....why do you think the bengals are losing??because marvin lost the locker room when chad knocked him in the eye..only way to get better is to get rid of this guy...i cant root for this guy anymore so i hope he is not here because i am never rooting for him again.....chad "the baby" Johnson sucks anyways

[bryce40]

i would give him up for just about anything right now.....why do you think the bengals are losing??because marvin lost the locker room when chad knocked him in the eye..only way to get better is to get rid of this guy...i cant root for this guy anymore so i hope he is not here because i am never rooting for him again.....chad "the baby" Johnson sucks anyways

I disagree; if this happened Marvin lost the team by sitting Chad on his butt after halftime. I don't care if it's your worst player or your best player, when something like that happens the player has to be discplined by the coach or the coach will lose the team.

[BengalChamps]

I know there's concern about the guaranteed money, but this trade is unique in that Brown is also due about $8 million in guaranteed money that the Eagles would have to eat, which would cancel out the $8 million you guys owe Chad (in other words, you pay Chad's bonus but are off the hook for Brown's). Both teams would have to count the entire $8 million against this years cap, but at the same time, we both are about $30 million under, so it's not a big deal.

I also have thought that the way around eating Chad's cap money was to trade him for a guy who would also cost his team some cap space in a trade.

The departure of Chad would be so POSITIVE for this team. Sure he's a talent, but he's devisive and disruptive. You cant win with guys like this. I would prefer to trade him for defensive help, but any trade at this time would be positive.

Other teams might also find that Chad's value goes down without Carson arm!

Someone please make this trade(any trade) happen!!!!!

[711chad]

i would give him up for just about anything right now.....why do you think the bengals are losing??because marvin lost the locker room when chad knocked him in the eye..only way to get better is to get rid of this guy...i cant root for this guy anymore so i hope he is not here because i am never rooting for him again.....chad "the baby" Johnson sucks anyways

Thats nonsense I pretty sure if that was the case he wouldnt be here...Marvin is a grown man he has the sense not to let one player dictate the outcome of the season...Chad vented its over he will be here in July August it doesnt matter Chad will remain a Bengal as he should

[membengal]

Brown and the Eagles' 1st for CJ?

Done and done.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Brown and the Eagles' 1st for CJ?

Done and done.

You really stick to your guns. I admire that even if I don't agree whatsoever.

[volcom69]

Add in Lito sheppard with the deal then you will have me thinking.

[bryce40]

Add in Lito sheppard with the deal then you will have me thinking.

Not Me!

[BengalszoneBilly]

Add in Lito sheppard with the deal then you will have me thinking.

Not Me!

Nor I MO. They can't carry Chad's jock even playing at half speed, which I might add he will not do.

[BengalszoneBilly]

why do you think the bengals are losing?

Because the defense can't keep other teams from scoring more points than the Bengals do. The Browns hung up 50+ on Cincy last year. Inexcusable in my book. We put up 40+ and lost. What more information do you need?

[bengalsfansince68]

why do you think the bengals are losing?

Because the defense can't keep other teams from scoring more points than the Bengals do. The Browns hung up 50+ on Cincy last year. Inexcusable in my book. We put up 40+ and lost. What more information do you need?

With all due respect Bill...

While the D pretty much lost the Cleveland game...

The D did not lose the Tampa game.

The offense contributed in a big way to several losses.

IMO

[BengalszoneBilly]

why do you think the bengals are losing?

Because the defense can't keep other teams from scoring more points than the Bengals do. The Browns hung up 50+ on Cincy last year. Inexcusable in my book. We put up 40+ and lost. What more information do you need?

With all due respect Bill...

While the D pretty much lost the Cleveland game...

The D did not lose the Tampa game.

The offense contributed in a big way to several losses.

IMO

I'll accept that statement sir, but I hang the offenses short comings on the linemen. Either they didn't open holes for the backs to run through, or they provided inadequate time for Carson to throw. These are the same position players who excelled in '05. The ONLY difference was the changes in the line.

That aside, I still feel the defense let too many teams easily convert third downs where they should have made them punt the ball. They just aren't getting the job done. Like my sig says...draft linemen!

[bengalsfansince68]

I'll accept that statement sir, but I hang the offenses short comings on the linemen.

I think it's a bit simplistic to hang it all on the line. Sure there were issues with the line, primarily Willie and Levi's inability to show up to practice. I believe that the over-riding factor causing problems in our offense in '07 was Bratkowski's ass-backward play calling. He thinks he can win with Carson and the receivers and nothing more. He has no clue how to establish a rush game and no clue how important running the football is. Screw the run and screw the TE, just throw it down the field 50 phucking times a game. That is a game that you are going to lose and it damn sure is not Carson's fault.

I spend as much time screaming at Bratkowski as I used to with Sam Wyche.

ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHH Phucking Bratkowski.

Sorry guys, I'm venting.

[bryce40]

I'll accept that statement sir, but I hang the offenses short comings on the linemen.

I think it's a bit simplistic to hang it all on the line. Sure there were issues with the line, primarily Willie and Levi's inability to show up to practice. I believe that the over-riding factor causing problems in our offense in '07 was Bratkowski's ass-backward play calling. He thinks he can win with Carson and the receivers and nothing more. He has no clue how to establish a rush game and no clue how important running the football is. Screw the run and screw the TE, just throw it down the field 50 phucking times a game. That is a game that you are going to lose and it damn sure is not Carson's fault.

I spend as much time screaming at Bratkowski as I used to with Sam Wyche.

ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHH Phucking Bratkowski.

Sorry guys, I'm venting.

I have to agree with the OC not seemingly having a clue. When they fired the DC; I couldn't believe that the OC didn't go to if Marvin was going to keep his job.

[EagleFan1]

It looks to me like you guys are split, with one camp that hates Johnson and likes the deal, and another camp that loves him and wouldn't trade him for Tom Brady.

Is that about right?

[sourceone64]

C J's disruptive attitude and antics is unexcusible! All of the attention is focused on him instead of the Bengals as a team. He has talent and plenty of it, But he needs knocked down a peg or two and needs to start being a team player. T O was the same way until he went to Dallas and the antics were not put up with and he was disiplined. Bottom line! he takes the focus off of what is important.

[EagleFan1]

The year we had T.O. we had our first SB appearance since 1980, but when he went ape-$hit the next year, the entire team fell apart. Before that, we had a group of absolute professionals, who played as a team, overcame adversity, etc. etc. That's why we went to 4 straight championships with a less-than-elite team.

But it's been 3 years since the T.O. fiasco and we're only now getting things back together from a chemistry standpoint. All we've heard since then has been whining, from McNabb, from LJ Smith, from Darwin Walker, the media, the fans (nothing new there), everybody. We've been a .500 team since losing him. Of course, our next best receiver was Todd Pinkston, not Houshmandzadeh.

So you have to be careful with these ego-maniacs. If you can control them, great. The Pats and Cowboys showed that this year. But if you can't, all hell is going to break loose.

Of course, who has more experience with bad apples than the Bengals?

[bryce40]

It looks to me like you guys are split, with one camp that hates Johnson and likes the deal, and another camp that loves him and wouldn't trade him for Tom Brady.

Is that about right?

I actually don't love or hate him; but wouldn't trade him for what you proposed here, that's just dumb. Like I said I would trade him for Fitzgerald though. T. Brady, you're right, I wouldn't we already have Carson.

[HairOnFire]

We've been a .500 team since losing him [TO]. Of course, our next best receiver was Todd Pinkston, not Houshmandzadeh.

And that touches on the reason I didn't think much of the trade scenario offered. Reggie Brown is at best a teams #2 option, a position Houshmandzadeh arguably fills better than any other WR in the NFL. In fact, Brown would probably be no more than Cincy's #3 in a WR corp that would suddenly lack a true #1. And anyone who knows Bengal football knows this team won't tolerate not having at least one elite WR for very long.

Simply put, Reggie Brown is an okay player who wouldn't be the long-term answer for the Bengals post-Chad needs anymore than he's been an answer for Philadelphia's lackluster receiving corp. He has value, but he'd be a band-aid....and the search for an upgrade would start immediately.

All things considered I think I'd prefer another draft pick, say a 3rd round pick, due the increased options it brings.

[EagleFan1]

It looks to me like you guys are split, with one camp that hates Johnson and likes the deal, and another camp that loves him and wouldn't trade him for Tom Brady.

Is that about right?

I actually don't love or hate him; but wouldn't trade him for what you proposed here, that's just dumb. Like I said I would trade him for Fitzgerald though. T. Brady, you're right, I wouldn't we already have Carson.

I have to think Fitzgerald has more trade value than Johnson, being as he's younger and doesn't have the baggage. I'd rather have Johnson, personally, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.

As it stands, the Eagles have offered Lito Sheppard and Reggie Brown for Fitzgerald, which is about the same value as Brown and #19, IMO. We'll see where it goes, but that's where I came up with my proposal. It can't be too off the wall.

Tell you what, you can have Matt Schobel back as a toss-in.

[agreen_112]

i would give him up for just about anything right now.....why do you think the bengals are losing??because marvin lost the locker room when chad knocked him in the eye..only way to get better is to get rid of this guy...i cant root for this guy anymore so i hope he is not here because i am never rooting for him again.....chad "the baby" Johnson sucks anyways

Tool!

[agreen_112]

i would give him up for just about anything right now.....why do you think the bengals are losing??because marvin lost the locker room when chad knocked him in the eye..only way to get better is to get rid of this guy...i cant root for this guy anymore so i hope he is not here because i am never rooting for him again.....chad "the baby" Johnson sucks anyways

I disagree; if this happened Marvin lost the team by sitting Chad on his butt after halftime. I don't care if it's your worst player or your best player, when something like that happens the player has to be discplined by the coach or the coach will lose the team.

LMAO!