Why we might be going 3-4...

[DuffMan]

I was just thinking about the perplexing idea that we would switch to a 3-4. It is odd to me since for the past 4 years we have drafted/signed players for a 4-3. I then remembered an ESPN article from about 3 years ago that said the 3-4 fad was due in large part b/c of the ridiculous salary/importance and rarity of good DTs and pass rushing DEs in the 4-3. Linebackers command less money than 4-3 DEs and you use fewer DTs than a 4-3, so in the end the 3-4 is the cheaper defense to run from a front 7 standpoint.

In addition, colleges are putting out more tweener DEs that are built to get upfield and similarly lighter DTs, the types of players that can translate into 3-4 OLBs and DEs respectively. Basically, you now have more to choose from in the draft if you run a 3-4.

Does anyone else think that this potential move to a 3-4 is due to a recognition by Marvin and the front office that in order to retain our explosive offense we need to run a cheaper defense? I wonder because, if you look at our roster, the number and quality of players we have at Dline in laughable, same for our LB corp. If you're gonna blow it up, might as well be economical about it...now that sounds like Mike Brown.

Thoughts?

[Oldcat]

I was just thinking about the perplexing idea that we would switch to a 3-4. It is odd to me since for the past 4 years we have drafted/signed players for a 4-3. I then remembered an ESPN article from about 3 years ago that said the 3-4 fad was due in large part b/c of the ridiculous salary/importance and rarity of good DTs and pass rushing DEs in the 4-3. Linebackers command less money than 4-3 DEs and you use fewer DTs than a 4-3, so in the end the 3-4 is the cheaper defense to run from a front 7 standpoint.

In addition, colleges are putting out more tweener DEs that are built to get upfield and similarly lighter DTs, the types of players that can translate into 3-4 OLBs and DEs respectively. Basically, you now have more to choose from in the draft if you run a 3-4.

Does anyone else think that this potential move to a 3-4 is due to a recognition by Marvin and the front office that in order to retain our explosive offense we need to run a cheaper defense? I wonder because, if you look at our roster, the number and quality of players we have at Dline in laughable, same for our LB corp. If you're gonna blow it up, might as well be economical about it...now that sounds like Mike Brown.

Thoughts?

The cheapness argument may no longer hold, now that everyone is jumping on the bandwagon. In an article about the Pats, it was mentioned that the

big 3-4 backers are being snapped up earlier than they were when just the Steelers and Pats ran the 3-4, as a reason why their LB corps is 100 years old.

[TJJackson]

Psssstttt....don't let Joe Pong read this, OK?

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/benga...-for-fanene.asp

It might upset the poor fellow....

Let's just keep it between you and me.....

[Spor_tees]

Psssstttt....don't let Joe Pong read this, OK?

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/benga...-for-fanene.asp

It might upset the poor fellow....

Let's just keep it between you and me.....

TJ don't you know by now that it is all a smoke screen and that the Bengals are sticking with the 4-3?

[JoePong]

The 3-4 isn't a "fad." Dude, the bengals and almost every team in the NFL played a 3-4 defense throughout the 1980s and into the 90s. Then teams started switching to a 4-3 - while some stuck with the 3-4. It's just that now a few teams are starting to switch back to it. Until recently, the bengals have almost always played a 3-4.

But sure. We're going to switch back to a 3-4 after a few years of the 4-3 because we are cheap. Good call.

And we will not switch. Deal with it.

[DuffMan]

The 3-4 isn't a "fad." Dude, the bengals and almost every team in the NFL played a 3-4 defense throughout the 1980s and into the 90s. Then teams started switching to a 4-3 - while some stuck with the 3-4. It's just that now a few teams are starting to switch back to it. Until recently, the bengals have almost always played a 3-4.

But sure. We're going to switch back to a 3-4 after a few years of the 4-3 because we are cheap. Good call.

And we will not switch. Deal with it.

The "fad" designation was taken from the ESPN article from 3 years ago, when the 3-4 was gaining some popularity in a league that was dominated by the 4-3. At the time of the article the 3-4 was being picked up by other teams in an attempt to copy-cat the success of the Pats and Steelers, hence at the time and given the context the 3-4 was considered a "fad."

Thanks for the history lesson anyway...

[bengalsfansince68]

And we will not switch. Deal with it

Joe, speaking in absolutes, the way that you do, is a really conservative Republican thing to do.

One of several things that piss me off about conservative Republicans.

You no more know as fact that we will not switch to a 3-4 base than anyone else knows as fact that we will.

Damn, I hate Dick Cheney.

[JoePong]

And we will not switch. Deal with it

Joe, speaking in absolutes, the way that you do, is a really conservative Republican thing to do.

One of several things that piss me off about conservative Republicans.

People who aren't smart enough to figure out the difference between truth and lies, or right and wrong, always feel that way. They resent that other people are smart enough to.

[GregCook]

And we will not switch. Deal with it

Joe, speaking in absolutes, the way that you do, is a really conservative Republican thing to do.

One of several things that piss me off about conservative Republicans.

You no more know as fact that we will not switch to a 3-4 base than anyone else knows as fact that we will.

Damn, I hate Dick Cheney.

I'm sorry, do you absolutely hate Dick Cheney? Careful, could make you a conservative something or another.

Hey but really why does anyone care what defense the Bengals run? Just run one that isn't last in most statistical categories, that is absolutely all I have to say about it.

[HairOnFire]

Does anyone else think that this potential move to a 3-4 is due to a recognition by Marvin and the front office that in order to retain our explosive offense we need to run a cheaper defense?

I've never given the expense angle much thought. However, the very reason the 3-4 was first used, and the primary reason it remains popular, is due to the alarming lack of true impact pass rushers at ALL defensive line positions. Not only is one of those positions eliminated, but the remaining positions are each primarily tasked with run stopping, a role that is far easier to fill.

Both schemes work equally well if teams commit to them fully...which brings me to my biggest complaint with the 3-4. Unstable franchises who switch head coaches frequently often find themselves switching back and forth between the two schemes, and this not only results in top talent being discarded as the switch is made, but also dictates project players get tossed aside before they have a chance to fully develope. And that's a huge consideration because teams like the Steelers can not only draft replacement players off the rack, but much of their success is based upon finding and developing players who perfectly fit their system, but might be a fish out of water playing for two dozen other NFL franchises.

[bengalsfansince68]

People who aren't smart enough to figure out the difference between truth and lies, or right and wrong, always feel that way. They resent that other people are smart enough to.

Well, that didn't take long.

Another truly Republican and Sean Hannity thing to say. No, Joe, those who believe that they are right about every subject, no discussion allowed, and who believe themselves to be mentally and morally superior to anyone who dissents, usually bear out to be the idiots. Especially those who are in complete lockstep, toeing the party line.

You are very unimpressive, sir. Just another ditto-head.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

People who aren't smart enough to figure out the difference between truth and lies, or right and wrong, always feel that way. They resent that other people are smart enough to.

Well, that didn't take long.

Another truly Republican and Sean Hannity thing to say. No, Joe, those who believe that they are right about every subject, no discussion allowed, and who believe themselves to be mentally and morally superior to anyone who dissents, usually bear out to be the idiots. Especially those who are in complete lockstep, toeing the party line.

You are very unimpressive, sir. Just another ditto-head.

Take this crap to a politics board. Apparently the irony of your statements falling into the exact "me-too" party-line trap you claim to hate is fully lost on you.

[bengalsfansince68]

Apparently the irony of your statements falling into the exact "me-too" party-line trap you claim to hate is fully lost on you.

My apologies to the Mods, I knew the slightest criticism of conservatism would rattle the ditto-heads' cages. No, DC I don't fall into a party line. I'm not even clear on what the Democrats party line is, but I am pretty well versed in the Republican party line.

I have never really looked at the politics threads until recently but I was impressed that the discussion of the presidential campaigns was very civil. Kudos.

I said that to Joe because I believe that what I said was true and because he had laid some of that hypocritical republican bulls**t on me previously.

Yea I'll take it to the other forum and anyone who professes mental and moral superiority will hear from me.

This means you, Joe, and all others of the ditto-head ilk. Bring it on.

[JoePong]

I am not even a Republican. And I don't know what me stating that the Bengals will not play a 3-4 defense has to do with politics or Dick Cheney anway. All I know is that in general, people who claim that other people can't possibly know something just because they themselves don't, are pretty arrogant. It's like some junior high algebra student telling Einstein that he can't possibly understand differential equations just because he doesn't undertand them himself.

[JoePong]

But back to football...

Bengals will not run a 3-4 defense. I will continue to believe that until someone provides me with one shred of evidence that they will. So far there is none. Just a bunch of fans on message boards talking about it and media discussing and writing articles about it. Nothing from the bengals.

[bengalsfansince68]

It's like some junior high algebra student telling Einstein that he can't possibly understand differential equations just because he doesn't undertand them himself.

I assume in this scenario that I am the junior high student and you are Einstein.

If you are as intelligent as Einstein, you should have no problem explaining to us how you know as fact that the Bengals will never go to a 3-4. You have stated that as fact on multiple occasions but never explained how that becomes fact to you.

How did you come by this knowledge, Mr. Einstein?

[Ox]

Until the linebacking core can sustain 3 games in a row without a season ending injury, I doubt that the team will be switching to a 3-4 alignment. Unless of course we would like to go ahead and get a list of scrubs to pick up off the street as soon as guys start dropping like flies again.

And can we keep the politics to the appropriate forum, gentlemen? Lord knows we don't need Dick Cheney in a 3-4 thread, unless he can play outside better than Landon.

[HoosierCat]

But back to football...

Bengals will not run a 3-4 defense. I will continue to believe that until someone provides me with one shred of evidence that they will. So far there is none. Just a bunch of fans on message boards talking about it and media discussing and writing articles about it. Nothing from the bengals.

Mike Zimmer isn't a Bengal?

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6649

[JoePong]

But back to football...

Bengals will not run a 3-4 defense. I will continue to believe that until someone provides me with one shred of evidence that they will. So far there is none. Just a bunch of fans on message boards talking about it and media discussing and writing articles about it. Nothing from the bengals.

Mike Zimmer isn't a Bengal?

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6649

He is the defensive coordinator. Or should I say... "At this time I believe him to be the defensive coordinator, but it is possible that he is not since I do not want to speak in absolutes because people who cannot distinguish between truth and fiction are somehow more enlightened than people who can - according to somone who hates Republicans."

But Mike Zimmer has given me no reason to believe the Bengals will switch. People who believe we are switching have an over-active imagination, in my opinion, and have not looked at the evidence objectively.

[HoosierCat]

But Mike Zimmer has given me no reason to believe the Bengals will switch. People who believe we are switching have an over-active imagination, in my opinion, and have not looked at the evidence objectively.

We await the evidence.

[bengalsfansince68]

Or should I say... "At this time I believe him to be the defensive coordinator, but it is possible that he is not since I do not want to speak in absolutes because people who cannot distinguish between truth and fiction are somehow more enlightened than people who can - according to somone who hates Republicans."

And here it is again... You can distinguish between truth and fiction and anyone who disagrees with you cannot.

Here is truth and fiction as I see it.

The truth is that Zimmer has stated on more than one occasion that it is possible that we will go 3-4.

The fiction is that Joe Pong has determined on his own that it is not possible.

[HairOnFire]

But Mike Zimmer has given me no reason to believe the Bengals will switch. People who believe we are switching have an over-active imagination, in my opinion, and have not looked at the evidence objectively.

We await the evidence.

Sadly, Joe Pong can no longer give you the evidence.....as the coin he flipped to make his decision was spent that same afternoon on a newspaper.

[DuffMan]

So interviewing tweeners at the combine + resigning Fanaenae + hiring a former 3-4 D-coordinator + not throwing tons of money at a small LB (Landon) or a 4-3 DE (Smith) + accruing big LBs the past 2 years aren't POTENTIAL signs/evidence that they MIGHT switch to a 3-4?

[BengalszoneBilly]

But Mike Zimmer has given me no reason to believe the Bengals will switch. People who believe we are switching have an over-active imagination, in my opinion, and have not looked at the evidence objectively.

We await the evidence.

As do I. The truth will be told in training camp.

[bengalsfansince68]

Sadly, Joe Pong can no longer give you the evidence.....as the coin he flipped to make his decision was spent that same afternoon on a newspaper.

Joe Pong reads a newspaper?