Stacy Andrews: Franchise Player

[kentjett]

If you look back to last years tape, Stacy was ourt best and most durable offensive lineman. He is one of the most athletic players for his position and he is pretty close to being in that top tier (needs more experience). This is a move they had to do. We picked him and developed him how we like and he will eventually take over for Willie. Now Willie's contract extension was a dumb move but not this one. If Carson can stay protected, we can compete w/ anyone even w/ a s**tty defense. Willie will be gone next year and Stacy will get a long term contract and get top five money anyway. Good move.

[GregCook]

Another way to spin this:

If we hadn't tagged him, I am quite sure he would sign a deal somewhere for what Steiny got to go play up in Cleveland. Thats alot of money for a 4th round pick that barely started in college and had to learn the fundamentals of his positions while in the NFL. Amazing job coaching him, amazing job learning on the JOB. Now he gets to replace all-Pro Willie Anderson, a 1st round pick. Nice job by Marvin and Brown, don't you think?

[CarsonDaMan]

I don't think anyone here is arguing Stacey's ability. Maybe a couple people but most will admit he is a top notch talent.

The problem lies in the way the team is using its cap space. Obviously the deal they gave Willie was a mistake. But that's a moot point now and I don't see Mike Brown flushing that contract down the toilet so that Stacey can start. So essentially they dumped 7.5 million down the toilet for a guy that will be here this year in case someone gets hurt. That's a lot of money that could have been spent on someone... who ya know... is actually on the field playing.

If they did quite simply to get him signed long term don't you think that could have been worked out by this point? I believe it was the Jets who made a run at him last year until the Bengals put the max tender on him. So they had all of last offseason and now all year this year to get a long term deal worked out. If that hasn't happened by this point might there be a bit of a snag in the negotiations??

If they keep the guy on the bench this year for that much money and then he walks next year what could have possibly been gained? There's a whole lot of whys and what ifs to say this was a smart move. Because at the moment it looks more like a desperate move by a dumb organization.

[HoosierCat]

If they did quite simply to get him signed long term don't you think that could have been worked out by this point? I believe it was the Jets who made a run at him last year until the Bengals put the max tender on him. So they had all of last offseason and now all year this year to get a long term deal worked out. If that hasn't happened by this point might there be a bit of a snag in the negotiations??

Well, as the saying goes, it takes two to tango. I'm just speculating, but maybe the snag is the Jets? Last offseason, Stacy was tagged with the top RFA tender, which would have required first-round compensation, and the Jets still brought him in. I doubt they did that just because they had a little extra in petty cash and wanted to take someone out to dinner. And I'll bet you a roll of nickels that they told him they'd make him a wealthy man if he was free and clear this year. And they may not have been the only team expressing interest.

In any case, with FA on the horizon, Stacy had little incentive to accept anything from the Bengals that wasn't a blockbuster offer. Now, after the tag, he may be willing to lower his sights a bit in exchange for long-term security.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

one rumor i read was that bobbie williams might move to center, thus it would allow a spot for andrews to go to guard. just something i heard.

[BengalszoneBilly]

one rumor i read was that bobbie williams might move to center, thus it would allow a spot for andrews to go to guard. just something i heard.

From another thread...

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

1. Not leverage? Wrong. No signing bonus, no guaranteed money, no long-term security. He watched David Pollack suffer a career-ending neck injury. This early in his career, hanging out there with nothing? I'd call it major leverage.

If I recall, the top-5 number counts average annual money and thus pro-rated signing bonuses. And while he doesn't get the long-term contract...there's no such thing in the NFL anyway. Bottom line is he's still a backup getting paid All-pro money.

2. I doubt even Stacy's agent would claim the franchise number is the floor for the negotiation. Hours of tape and the market will set his price. Though I'll be curious to see the contract Justin Smith signs and how it relates to the $8 million franchise number we paid him last year.

I guarantee his agent will say that if he's negotiating with the Bengals. If the Bengals tagged him and voluntarily gave him $8M a year, then his agent will most certainly start with an average of $8M in total money. Hours of tape will set his price on the *open market*, a price that I believe would have been a good bit lower than he got paid this year. I'll also be interested to see what happens with Justin, although his truly putrid year will play into that too.

3. I don't think he's one of the top five tackles in the league. I spent 5 paragraphs trying to explain why you tag guys for a variety of reasons, not just to claim that they are one of the 5 best at their position. The tag isn't a compliment. It's not a reward. To a young guy like Andrews, it's more like a pair of handcuffs. I therefore must refuse your nomination to a mental institution.

I understand the ramifications of the franchise tag, and how it's a benefit to the owners. I'd agree with you if he really were up and coming and a future pro-bowler. There, you really can handcuff a guy into taking a below-market deal. This isn't the case here. Andrews' agent has to be laughing his ass off. Because that's the thing that keeps getting lost here: he hasn't shown he's any good. That has to come up at some point, doesn't it?

I don't care what the reasons are or how many paragraphs they spanned...the bottom line is they're paying a backup like a pro-bowler. And with a salary cap, teams that want to win championships do NOT do that.

[TJJackson]

bottom line is they're paying a backup like a pro-bowler. And with a salary cap, teams that want to win championships do NOT do that.

Exactly....well said

[bengalsfansince68]

bottom line is they're paying a backup like a pro-bowler. And with a salary cap, teams that want to win championships do NOT do that.

Exactly....well said

Oh for God's sake.

Stacey is not going to be a backup. Stop calling him a backup. Without Stacey last year, this line would have crumbled.

The short-sighted on this board are omnipresent.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

bottom line is they're paying a backup like a pro-bowler. And with a salary cap, teams that want to win championships do NOT do that.

Exactly....well said

Oh for God's sake.

Stacey is not going to be a backup. Stop calling him a backup. Without Stacey last year, this line would have crumbled.

The short-sighted on this board are omnipresent.

WTF were you watching? *With* Stacy last year this line *did* crumble.

Honestly, do you think he's primo starter quality? Is this guy the anchor at tackle for the next 10 years? Because that's not what I saw. When I was able to watch, he didn't look very good at all.

[GregCook]

bottom line is they're paying a backup like a pro-bowler. And with a salary cap, teams that want to win championships do NOT do that.

Exactly....well said

I considered it settled that Stacy will start this year. I think its settled too that Ghuichic didn't have a real good year; I think its settled that Willie is fragile. Stacy will start.

Call me crazy, but I expect him to be a pro bowler a few times by the time he hangs it up. Hopefully they can sign his big fat a$$ long term.

To me this was a good day in BengalWorld.

[CarsonDaMan]

bottom line is they're paying a backup like a pro-bowler. And with a salary cap, teams that want to win championships do NOT do that.

Exactly....well said

Oh for God's sake.

Stacey is not going to be a backup. Stop calling him a backup. Without Stacey last year, this line would have crumbled.

The short-sighted on this board are omnipresent.

Where exactly is he going to start?? Again if they let Willie go and make Stacey the future now then i'm all for this move. But you and I both know they're not going to do that. Same boat with Levi he isnt going anywhere. And I don't see Andrews as a strong left tackle candidate anyway.

So maybe the Bobbie Williams to center moves goes down. Then we can plug Andrews in at right guard. And in this case that puts up the question... why the hell didn't they just keep Steinbach last year? If they can spend 7.5 million on a guard then at least do it on a guy who has proven his value.

And as the last poster mentioned.. the line did crumble last year. Not to blame it on Andrews because it wasn't his fault specifically but surely a guy of his current price value would have made a bigger impact than he did.

[bengalsfansince68]

Did I say short-sighted? Perhaps a better word would be blind.

The job Stacey and Whit did in holding the line together while our tackles missed practice after practice and game after game was, in my opinion, remarkable. Christ, Carson threw for over 4000 yards and the line surrendered the fourth or fifth least sacks in the league. The lack of a run game was not due to the line issues, it was due to the OC having no clue how to establish the run game.

Stacey covered holes at 3 different positions and you guys expect him to play at a pro-bowl level under those circumstances. Damned few pro-bowlers have to bounce up and down the line in every game the way Stacey and Whit did in '07.

Short-sighted or blind? I don't see much difference.

[HoosierCat]

I don't care what the reasons are or how many paragraphs they spanned...the bottom line is they're paying a backup like a pro-bowler.

No...they aren't. Pro Bowl linemen get 7-year, $45-50-something-million deals with ~$20 million in guaranteed coin and $30 million-ish in the first two-three years.

Stacy stands to make $7.5 million this year. To put that in perspective, when the Bengals re-did Bobbie Williams in 2006, he got $4 million guaranteed up-front plus about $1.5 million in '06 salary for a total around $5.5 million. Figure that if the Bengals had to go out and get a starting-caliber G-T to replace Stacy in FA they would have to pay at least that much year one. So in the end what we're quibbling over is circa $2 million in cap room -- some of which they undoubtedly recoup if Stacy is now more amenable to a long-term deal.

[TJJackson]

Err, that's still like a pro bowler Hoosier......45 to 50 a year for 7 years is 6.5 to 7.1 million a year on average.

Yeah, more of it is guarenteed, but at the end of 2008, a healthy Andrews would still pocket on average every bit as much as a appropriately-paid Probowler

Also...Chick Ludwig is saying the figure is more like 9.5 million -- not the 7.5 quoted elsewhere. If true, this makes the deal even less attractive....

[BENGALTHEM]

Good Move for the Bengals. Good quality insurance just in case Anderson or Jones goes down. Not a question of if they go down, it's when. Especially Anderson. I would hate to loose Andrews, after we took the time to groom this guy from a project, to a solid starter and a potential pro bowler.

[HoosierCat]

Err, that's still like a pro bowler Hoosier......45 to 50 a year for 7 years is 6.5 to 7.1 million a year on average.

Yeah, more of it is guarenteed, but at the end of 2008, a healthy Andrews would still pocket on average every bit as much as a appropriately-paid Probowler

"Pocket on average" makes no sense. What's actually in the pocket is what matters. Year one a pro bowl lineman will walk away with $20 million+ on a FA contract. Year one Stacy gets $7.5 million. The payday isn't anywhere near close, and there's no long-term security to boot.

To be sure, Stacy will make nice coin. Certainly more than he has done anything to deserve. But I suspect you'd have a hard time luring a pro bowl lineman to Cincy with a single check for $7.5 million.

[TJJackson]

Ludwig says 9.5 mil

How many players can you afford to pay at 9.5 mil? 12?

[chrishcovga]

I like the move for the simple fact that Stacey Andrews was the only good thing coming from drafting Chris Perry!

Perry was a serious bust, but the pick that came from trading down with the Rams netted Andrews, and I think he's a year over due from starting on a regular basis. He played very well in '06. And in '07 he should have retained the starters job.

Either way, expect Cincy to take another offensive lineman on day one this year too.

[Pidge]

If a long term deal is penned then it's a necessary precaution. If not then it's a screw up. It shows piss poor planning and organisation but in one scenario the FO dodge the pie thrown at their face and in the other they walk straight into it. I like Stacy and would like him to stay but to tag him is in no way a victory, it's damage limitation. This isnt Carson we're talking for crying out loud.

I'm encouraged that they decided not to hand over $10MM+ to Justin though. That's a start.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I like the move for the simple fact that Stacey Andrews was the only good thing coming from drafting Chris Perry!

Perry was a serious bust, but the pick that came from trading down with the Rams netted Andrews, and I think he's a year over due from starting on a regular basis. He played very well in '06. And in '07 he should have retained the starters job.

Either way, expect Cincy to take another offensive lineman on day one this year too.

You sig Chris suggests Cincinnati trades up in the 1st round to grab Dorsey. Pray tell how does that monster move happen?

[kingwilly]

This deal tells me 3 things:

1. The Bengals have just signed for a way to let Willie go. Maybe he stays, but Stacey is smart (expensive) insurance for the T position. Will Willie be released? This now is possible.

2. Justin will probably be gone. Using the tag on Stacey means Justin is probably audi. No hard feelings Justin but you are an average end, and approaching a bust for a 4th overall pick.

3. No need to go high (r1-2) for OL. Can start lining guys uo in r3-5. Probably some good value and also means we can jettison the Kiefts and maybe guichiucus.

Overall, if I had to choose between tagging Stacey ad Justin, Stacey is the smarter play. Stacey maintains continuity for a pretty good line and should give Carson confidence they are serious about protecting him. Stacey at LG or RT gives us versatility. All the Steiny talk just makes me bitter, so I'll skip battering SoP for now.

If we can guestimate the cap, this probably means Justin has zero chance for a long term deal. SO be it.

I hope they consider bringing in Crumpler. He is a good blocker, too.

[HoosierCat]

Ludwig says 9.5 mil

Ludwig is wrong.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/10/...se-tag-amounts/

[HoTbOy]

Man,when I saw that yesterday I was like WTF?! some of the points about being a smart move in case this happens or that happens were indeed legit, but I just can't see it on a backup like that...They must really see something in him...But I must admit I am glad JSmith didn't get it...Did SAndrews go to a Pro Bowl or something and I missed it???

[agreen_112]

L. Jones - LT

A. Whitworth - LG

B. Williams - C

S. Andrews - RG

W. Anderson - RT

Stacey has become a starter, who's out? Anderson or Levi? IMO Ghiechek is the most dispensable. Bobbie can play center.

The one thing Mike Browns knows how to do is set up an offensive line, I'll give him that. Cincinnati ALWAYS has a good offensive line. When we let Steiny go it was a bad move, but we'll see how it pans out once we get past all the injuries. Hopefully we can stay healthy.

I'm just glad it wasn't Madieu or Justin. This could've been a 6 page thread instead of 4!