BengalszoneBilly Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Chad stays...Definitely. No way in hell this organization lets him go. None! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Chad is a huge problem:me first attitude(Keshawn interview)drops on third downdoes not block on running playsruns out of bounds when the team needs the clock to run(Cleveland)sits on the ground after fumbling the ball while the ball is still live(Arizona)does not run the right patterns(New England)He'll probably be a Bengal again because no one else will want his tired act. Yup. If he's such a player, surely someone will offer us a first for him, right? Wrong. Everyone can see that the Bengals are soft. That they are immature. That they have their own agendas and don't play as a team. We complain about it constantly, announcers talk about it on the tube, and our opponents exploit it to defeat us. The head coach calls it out as the primary thing that needs fixed in the offseason. Willie, who is essentially the captain of the team, cited selfishness and "Hollywood" type players as the reason for our lack of toughness.Is Chad Carl Pickens? Is he that coach-choking NBA player? No. He's worse, by far. Because Chad is insidious. He says the right things, sometimes. He works out hard, stays in shape. He's way too smart to say it's all about me. Fans who love stats can look at his stats and say hey, he's a great player, maybe the best we have. But coaches and football people know the game is about the intagibles as well. That's why people like Parcells, Dungy, and Ditka say they wouldn't have him on their team. The Bengals will never rid themselves of the soft, selfish culture we have with Chad here. They've been trying and they can't overcome it. Pickens and that coach-choker, they're like blunt trauma wounds. Obvious, damaging, and destructive. Chad is like something that can't be seen from the outside, something that grows within and destroys you. Cancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Wow. That was almost poetic. Well done COB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Right or wrong, very nice post COB !!!WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoTbOy Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 I know this ia a thread about CJohnson, but if we are talking about trading a player why not RJohnson also...I didn't see any WR step up besides CJohnson or TJ, and with CHenry missing half the season he didn't really do anything other than his 1st game back...What I'm saying is trade CJohnson and you need another WR, because after the 1st 3 meaning CJohnson TJ and CHenry, we got squat for WR...Where as we have all these RB's some who didn't play all year and some who did a very decent job, surely someone can step up and grab that position, but I SERIOUSLY doubt that we have someone capable of replacing CJohnson on the roster right now...I say the reason TJ and CHenry do what they do is because of double teams that CJohnson gets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 But it's not a question of getting equal trade value in return or replacing every reception or yard lost. It's a question of changing the teams identity, improving the chemistry in the lockerroom, and putting an end to the selfish play that too often results in more highlite clips than wins. Right now the real question facing the Bengals doesn't relate to trading Chad, since Mike Brown was adamant about that being off the table, but rather....how do you attempt to salvage what's left of Chad's career in Cincinnati? How can Bengal coaches entice real and lasting change from their most selfish and unprofessional player? Or at the very least, if real change is unattainable because Chad is as stubborn as he is immature, how can the Bengals appeal to Chad Johnson's inner entertainer and convince him that there's a desperate need for an immediate image makeover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalByTheBay Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Randy Moss brought a 4th round pick last year. Don't overestimate the market for problem-children wide receivers...I love using the Raiders as an example of how to do something. That trade worked out real well for them didn't it? Moss essentially forced a trade and the Raiders backed-down (rather than sitting him for some games) and got completely worked by the Patriots. A 4th rounder -- anybody who could point to that as a reason the Bengals should consider trading CJ for a 3rd rounder is .... not savy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Savvy or not, it helps to define the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Savvy or not, it helps to define the market. I doubt it. If anything, the play of Randy Moss has done more to inflate the trade value of elite WR's than any player you could name. Furthermore, Moss provides a handy example of a malcontents behavior being disregarded due to his previous surroundings. In fact, if you're very quiet you can almost hear the excuses that will be made in war rooms across the NFL... "I admit the guy acts like a stark raving assclown, but who wouldn't playing for that team? They've got no bubble, their towels are too small, and the team owner drives a Chevy. Who could win under those circumstances?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalByTheBay Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Savvy or not, it helps to define the market.Perhaps -- and to that end I would suggest that teams will be less willing to bid low for a good player who has a bad rep. on a distressed team that needs to move him -- the entire league having been embarassed twice now by the Patriots' bargain shopping with Moss and Moss Jr. (aka Corey Dillon). While a no-trade clause is certainly a problem for a losing team, I think that offering the Raiders a 2nd round pick for Moss looks pretty much like a no-brainer now for about half the teams in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Regardless, hair, it still defines the market. I said somewhere in this thread that they might be able to talk a 2 out of the right team, but more likely a 3. But for anyone to think he would fetch a 1, that's crazy talk.And BtB, if the Bengals test the market, I hope you are right. CJ shouldn't go for as low as Moss did. But Bengals fans (not you and HoF, but a lot of the others) may not have a good idea of what the likely returns for CJ are and I suspect too many have their sights set too unrealistically, should he actually be shopped.And, by "define the market", I don't mean he would only get a 4. But you can bet the starting point in any trade talks will be the inquiring team saying "Moss only got a 4 in return" and the Bengals saying but "look what happened" and the other team saying "yeah, but a 4" etc. etc. etc. If the Bengals really want to deal him, the price will be less than a lot of people on here want it to be.*And, yes, Moss' success would help the Bengals in that give and take. But Moss' price still mandates that the return would lower than #1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Maybe the Bengals can trade him to the Patriots for a 4th rounder and Robert Kraft will throw in a few pounds of cheese for Mike Brown to sweeten the deal. On a side note, I bet Mike Brown eats government cheese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Regardless, hair, it still defines the market. No, it only helps define the trade market....as does the Chargers trading a 2nd round pick for Chris Chambers....and the Seahawks trade for Deion Branch. The fact remains that all trades are unique and the circumstances surrounding the Moss trade aren't likely to be repeated very often. As a result his trade doesn't come close to defining Chad Johnson's market value should the Bengals agree to trade him. For example, does Chad have a No-Trade clause in his contract? I don't believe he does, and if true the Bengals would be free to negotiate with any team that was willing to bid on his services, not just the ones Chad agrees to play for. And that freedom to open the bidding to all comers is exactly what Oakland didn't have...allowing Moss to force his trade to the team of his choice...at whatever price that team felt was the minimum acceptable amount. That won't happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walzav29 Posted January 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 All of this talk is exactly why I believe in the Where there's smoke there's fire philosophy. From the halftime blowup incident to the sideline argument, to the players are tired of hearing about it. We would not be hearing all of this if there wasn't a touch of truth. I would bet 10 bucks he is on his way out. It's a shame. I liked him, but not as much as I love the stripes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Yes, I said "helps" in my first "define the market" post, Hair. I think we are at the same place on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Yes, I said "helps" in my first "define the market" post, Hair. I think we are at the same place on this. Absolutely. I wasn't trying to bust your chops on this one, just pointing out how little impact I think the Moss trade might have when determining Chad's trade value in the unlikely event that he's actually place on the trading block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Some of you guys who want to trade Chad should come over and talk to some of our nutty Ravens' fans who want to trade Ray Lewis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Some of you guys who want to trade Chad should come over and talk to some of our nutty Ravens' fans who want to trade Ray Lewis. Hey buddy, if you give me your coach killer I'll give you mine. And as a bonus, my coach killer actually has real blood on his hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.