How Much More Can Willie Anderson Contribute?

[XPetey]

While Willie Anderson has done so much for the Bengals over his 12 year career, the question of retirement needs to be asked. Willie hasn't played since week 7 against the Jets. He's been out since, and to be honest, I've been very impressed with the way Stacy Andrews has played in Willie's absence. I know he's an emotional leader for the team, but can he bring it on the field anymore?

If I had my way I'd put Willie on the shelf for the season and let him try and heal up. At this point, with the Bengals eliminated from the playoffs, there's no reason for Willie to push himself out there. If he has any thoughts of playing next year he's going to have to rehab hard and come back next season in great shape. If he doesn't think he can come back he should allow the Bengals to get guys like Andrews and Kooistra as much time as possible so the team and evaluate what direction they need to go in the offseason.

I know Willie's a legend in Cincinnati, and his play for the past 12 years commands the kind of respect the organization is giving him in allowing him to keep pushing himself. If nothing else, let him come out for a play next weekend on the last home and let him get his standing ovation. His blue collar attitude has helped the Bengals for 12 years, but how much more, physically, can the big guy take?

To read more from my blog or to comment: www.who-dey-bengals.blogspot.com

[TJJackson]

He'll retire this offseason.....

[CJBestInAFC]

Why haven't they put him on IR and activate guys like Toeaina or Dane Uperesa? It is pretty stupid if you ask me. I think it is time to see what they got in these guys. It's not like Uperesa will see a lot of game action, but if someone goes down you don't have a guy that can't play due to injury that hasn't been dressing for the last 10 weeks on the sidelines, you actually can plug in a healthy backup.

[AMC]

Why haven't they put him on IR and activate guys like Toeaina or Dane Uperesa? It is pretty stupid if you ask me. I think it is time to see what they got in these guys. It's not like Uperesa will see a lot of game action, but if someone goes down you don't have a guy that can't play due to injury that hasn't been dressing for the last 10 weeks on the sidelines, you actually can plug in a healthy backup.

I think they don't want to have Big Willie retire off of the IR list....Let him go out at least partially swinging....

[Kirkendall]

I know everyone practically demands that Willie retire. Still, I don't see how anyone on this roster, right now, can even hold a candle to Willie. And don't give me the injury argument. Through all the aches and pains of a long career, the dude still punished people finally giving way for recovery this season. Hoping that he retires is far from "progress" with this team with the "needs" we have. If Willie can go next year, he starts.

[membengal]

XPetey has a blog? Why didn't someone tell me?

[AMC]

I know everyone practically demands that Willie retire. Still, I don't see how anyone on this roster, right now, can even hold a candle to Willie. And don't give me the injury argument. Through all the aches and pains of a long career, the dude still punished people finally giving way for recovery this season. Hoping that he retires is far from "progress" with this team with the "needs" we have. If Willie can go next year, he starts.

Totally agree.....

Just don't hang on too long. Only Willie knows when that is....

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

If Willie can go next year, he starts.

Hell of an 'if' at this point. I don't think anybody wants to see Willie gone; what people don't want to see is the team counting on Willie, not getting a replacement, then being stuck with the likes of Anrews or Kooistra for 90% of the snaps next year.

Basically, he owes it to himself and the team to make a realistic assessment of what he can probably do next year.

[Stripes]

Agreed completely with Kirk. I think Willie's inability to play through his current ailments have been overstated quite severely in the midst of a crappy season. I expect him to be more capable next season, and should be get healthy... this isn't even a question. Yes he stays, and yes he plays.

Either way, I want the Bengals to draft a replacement for him with a first day pick. I'm not sure about Andrews/Kooistra, and Whitworth is already occupying another spot.

[XPetey]

Looks like Willie says he'll return next season per the homepage at Bengals.com...

If he's not ready this week and he's "suffered a setback" like Marvin said why hasn't he gone on IR??

[TJJackson]

I think that saying "Willy is great, he starts" is missing the big picture.

You can't afford to reserve a roster spot for a guy who can only play in 4-5 games and/or can play a down or two in all 16.

Particularly for a player with cap number like Willy's.

I love the guy and have immense respect for all he has done, but a walking wounded Willy for 20 snaps a year just is not worth a full salary or a roster spot. Give the salary, roster spot, and much-needed practice snaps to the guy who can line up therefore every snap, every Sunday.

Sure, if he is 100% and in Pro Bowl like form and plays nearly every offensive snap next year, cool, start him. I understand that. However, i think this year's injuries are tell tale that the old reliable Willy of the early 2000's has left the building, and we (like him) need to move on

Oh, and I think it should be Whitworth at RT and Andrews at LG

[Kirkendall]

You can't afford to reserve a roster spot for a guy who can only play in 4-5 games and/or can play a down or two in all 16.

Are you kidding me? We've been doing that for the better part of two years now. Calling Frostee, Frostee, where are you? :lol:

[Kirkendall]

I think that saying "Willy is great, he starts" is missing the big picture.

You can't afford to reserve a roster spot for a guy who can only play in 4-5 games and/or can play a down or two in all 16.

Particularly for a player with cap number like Willy's.

I love the guy and have immense respect for all he has done, but a walking wounded Willy for 20 snaps a year just is not worth a full salary or a roster spot. Give the salary, roster spot, and much-needed practice snaps to the guy who can line up therefore every snap, every Sunday.

Sure, if he is 100% and in Pro Bowl like form and plays nearly every offensive snap next year, cool, start him. I understand that. However, i think this year's injuries are tell tale that the old reliable Willy of the early 2000's has left the building, and we (like him) need to move on

Oh, and I think it should be Whitworth at RT and Andrews at LG

Well, you're set in your argument for Willie retiring -- that's cool. But Willie, IMHO, is still a better option and puts forth a better product than Andrews or Whitworth. I like 'em both, don't get me wrong, but Willie is more than salary cap or walking wounded -- which he's been every season, it seems, since he started going to the pro bowl -- yet he shows up every game until this year. Willie is a key lockerroom guy too. Would hate to see that go because we haven't had a younger lockerroom guy show up that comes close to the presence that Willie has. And I will never forget his "good riddance" speech to Corey Dillon.

But, TJ, you say this that I struggled with: "Sure, if he is 100% and in Pro Bowl like form and plays nearly every offensive snap next year, cool, start him. I understand that. However, i think this year's injuries are tell tale that the old reliable Willy of the early 2000's has left the building, and we (like him) need to move on"

How can we know this before the season starts? Won't we discover during the '08 season? Sure, if we sit back and have a vision that Willie breaks his leg in week #9, your argument is very valid. I'd jump on your bandwagon at that point. But we just don't know any of that. And I completely disagree that we should take one action simply to prevent another. We know Willie. We know this guy has guts, grit and will show up each day. Heck, I seriously doubt he misses a game if the Bengals were firmly in the playoffs.

I understand your point TJ, I do. I just completely disagree with it.

[HoosierCat]

Well, Willie swears he's coming back next season on da site today, so there's that.

But I have to agree with TJ. You may not be able to predict injuries, kirk, but you can't predict recoveries, either. All the guts and grit in the world are no help if you're on the bench. The Bengals can certainly hope Willie is well in 2008...but planning on that being the case invites the same kind of trouble we had with Willie and Levi this season.

Which is why I think you'll see them back a Brink's truck up to Stacey's locker (and maybe even look to extend Whit).

[Kirkendall]

Well, Willie swears he's coming back next season on da site today, so there's that.

But I have to agree with TJ. You may not be able to predict injuries, kirk, but you can't predict recoveries, either. All the guts and grit in the world are no help if you're on the bench. The Bengals can certainly hope Willie is well in 2008...but planning on that being the case invites the same kind of trouble we had with Willie and Levi this season.

Which is why I think you'll see them back a Brink's truck up to Stacey's locker (and maybe even look to extend Whit).

But we know the seriousness of that injury? Or are we simply suggesting that he's older, he's sat out a couple of games so he must be done. Again, I understand the argument, I just don't agree with it. Not right now while we're still three games away from the season's end.

Ah, hell. I admit it. Willie is my favorite Bengals player for the past 10 years and still is today. So my homerism, might, a tiny-bit, be showing here.

Still, Willie is god. Therefore, he starts. You question god? Is that argument over-doing it?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Willie, IMHO, is still a better option and puts forth a better product than Andrews or Whitworth.

Well, that's the point - by reserving the spot for Willie and him not being able to play, that's when you end up starting Andrews for 12 games. By assuming Willie won't be able to play, you can maybe try to scrounge for a real starter who's better than Andrews, or a high-round pick (realistically, we probably do that anyway, but it might affect which round). But the problem with that is you probably need some of his cap money to get a veteran if you go that route.

Basically, there's no way in hell Willie can say with any certainty that he can be effective next year. But the team realistically needs to know if he can go or not by next April at the latest.

I'll say this - I hope Willie has enough self-respect to retire if he can't come back at full strength.

[TJJackson]

At his age, I think it is more probable than not that he either won't recover physically or will not recover his pro-bowl form.

In either case, leaving him on the roster and paying him a salary will drag this team down

Re: Frostee - surely you were not wanting me (me in particular!) to defend his continued presence on this team? I've wanted him gone since the moment they called his named on draft day. But....The Slowman's salary is not the huge burden that Willy's is.

[HoosierCat]

But we know the seriousness of that injury? Or are we simply suggesting that he's older, he's sat out a couple of games so he must be done. Again, I understand the argument, I just don't agree with it. Not right now while we're still three games away from the season's end.

Ah, hell. I admit it. Willie is my favorite Bengals player for the past 10 years and still is today. So my homerism, might, a tiny-bit, be showing here.

Still, Willie is god. Therefore, he starts. You question god? Is that argument over-doing it?

I would like nothing better than to see Willie come roarin' back next season. But we saw this year where wishin/hopin'/prayin' our two bookend tackles would be healthy got us. And last offseason, not only did they cross their fingers on Willie and Levi, but went further and let our third-best lineman in Steinbach walk. "Shoring up" the line consisted of signing a bargain-bin castoff from the Cardinals.

All I'm saying is that if you see them do the same thing again -- count on Willie and Levi to be healthy, let Andrews walk, sign some third-stringer -- then it becomes all too possible that it all comes apart again next September.

IMHO, they have to either resign Stacey, spend sizeably on a FA o-lineman, or spend a high (first or second round) pick on an o-lineman. Trying to get Whit inked to an extension wouldn't be dumb either; it doesn't look like he's going to get any cheaper.

[generaldreedle]

I know everyone practically demands that Willie retire. Still, I don't see how anyone on this roster, right now, can even hold a candle to Willie. And don't give me the injury argument. Through all the aches and pains of a long career, the dude still punished people finally giving way for recovery this season. Hoping that he retires is far from "progress" with this team with the "needs" we have. If Willie can go next year, he starts.

Preach!!!!!

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

But we saw this year where wishin/hopin'/prayin' our two bookend tackles would be healthy got us.

Come on, we're Bengals fans. Wishin'/hopin'/prayin' is what we're best at.

All I'm saying is that if you see them do the same thing again -- count on Willie and Levi to be healthy, let Andrews walk, sign some third-stringer -- then it becomes all too possible that it all comes apart again next September.

IMHO, they have to either resign Stacey, spend sizeably on a FA o-lineman, or spend a high (first or second round) pick on an o-lineman. Trying to get Whit inked to an extension wouldn't be dumb either; it doesn't look like he's going to get any cheaper.

Are you actually suggesting a long term plan? That's insanity. As far as Andrews - if they go in with Levi and Willie (aka 'the walking wounded') as starters, surely they don't let Andrews go unless they plan on getting a backup that's better than he is.

I'm not trying to diss Willie, really, but just looking at the trend I think the combination of all those consecutive games started and the Bengals back-alley-grade medical care has caught up with him. Heavy, old people + microfracture surgery = not a good sign.

If Willie can go, awesome. If not - well, so long, and thanks for all the fish.

[Kirkendall]

Willie, IMHO, is still a better option and puts forth a better product than Andrews or Whitworth.

Well, that's the point - by reserving the spot for Willie and him not being able to play, that's when you end up starting Andrews for 12 games. By assuming Willie won't be able to play, you can maybe try to scrounge for a real starter who's better than Andrews, or a high-round pick (realistically, we probably do that anyway, but it might affect which round). But the problem with that is you probably need some of his cap money to get a veteran if you go that route.

Basically, there's no way in hell Willie can say with any certainty that he can be effective next year. But the team realistically needs to know if he can go or not by next April at the latest.

I'll say this - I hope Willie has enough self-respect to retire if he can't come back at full strength.

A lot can be said about many players on this team right now. Specifically pointing out Willie because of this unfounded wish for him to retire doesn't make sense. Especially for the purpose of saving money? I don't know. It's pretty disturbing that we find ourselves so ready to get rid of someone because of money they make even though, 12 months ago, they earned the respect of fans, media and players to make the pro bowl with ZERO indication that he won't be back 100% next year. And I'm not talking about loyalty, but you mean to tell me that guys like Eric Ghiaciuc, who I think has been a disaster, have more of a right to stick around because they don't hurt the cap as much and they're healthy?

So everyone wants Willie to retire because he makes a lot of money (hits the cap hard) and the unknowns of his health next year?

[Kirkendall]

At his age, I think it is more probable than not that he either won't recover physically or will not recover his pro-bowl form.

In either case, leaving him on the roster and paying him a salary will drag this team down

Since we're all playing the "what if" game now, what if he does recover, becomes the best right tackle in the NFL for another team? I mean, if he doesn't retire, then I'm sure most of you would support cutting him, right? Wouldn't that fall in the 264-page book of keeping average talent and dumping talent that we "think" might be degraded?

Except for Williams and Whitworth, I'd support dumping everyone else before dumping Willie. Dumping Willie and keeping Andrews would apply to the same issues we've had before. There's then, no change and Rudi Johnson is back to fighting for his life in the backfield.

[Kirkendall]

But we know the seriousness of that injury? Or are we simply suggesting that he's older, he's sat out a couple of games so he must be done. Again, I understand the argument, I just don't agree with it. Not right now while we're still three games away from the season's end.

Ah, hell. I admit it. Willie is my favorite Bengals player for the past 10 years and still is today. So my homerism, might, a tiny-bit, be showing here.

Still, Willie is god. Therefore, he starts. You question god? Is that argument over-doing it?

I would like nothing better than to see Willie come roarin' back next season. But we saw this year where wishin/hopin'/prayin' our two bookend tackles would be healthy got us. And last offseason, not only did they cross their fingers on Willie and Levi, but went further and let our third-best lineman in Steinbach walk. "Shoring up" the line consisted of signing a bargain-bin castoff from the Cardinals.

All I'm saying is that if you see them do the same thing again -- count on Willie and Levi to be healthy, let Andrews walk, sign some third-stringer -- then it becomes all too possible that it all comes apart again next September.

IMHO, they have to either resign Stacey, spend sizeably on a FA o-lineman, or spend a high (first or second round) pick on an o-lineman. Trying to get Whit inked to an extension wouldn't be dumb either; it doesn't look like he's going to get any cheaper.

I do agree with you on many points. Of all the linemen we needed to keep, I thought Eric Steinbach was first and foremost. But, that didn't happen.

So are we talking about praying to the football gods that Willie will retire -- which is mute, because it won't happen -- or cutting the guy -- which won't happen because of the penalty. Knowing now what we know, what do you want?

[TJJackson]

Well, at least we're not bring Frostee the Slowman into the conversation anymore :-)

Kirk, the point is that I believe he can't go anything close to a full season again, which means the snaps and money he gets have to go to someone else.

It isn't a diss to Willy - he's been awesome, I love the guy - but I don't think he has it in him, and the team would be unwise to not plan now for a strong backup - essentially, a second starter - at his spot if they plan to let him continue on the team. and thats even assuming he is healthy come April

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Specifically pointing out Willie because of this unfounded wish for him to retire doesn't make sense. Especially for the purpose of saving money? I don't know. It's pretty disturbing that we find ourselves so ready to get rid of someone because of money they make even though, 12 months ago, they earned the respect of fans, media and players to make the pro bowl with ZERO indication that he won't be back 100% next year. And I'm not talking about loyalty, but you mean to tell me that guys like Eric Ghiaciuc, who I think has been a disaster, have more of a right to stick around because they don't hurt the cap as much and they're healthy?

So everyone wants Willie to retire because he makes a lot of money (hits the cap hard) and the unknowns of his health next year?

It's not about rights. Nobody has the right to a roster spot, you earn your spot by your play. If Gooeychuck can't play next year, then he can't play. The only difference is it's less of a gamble, because insurance at the center position is cheap, as is his own contract. You can carry an extra center easily through camp and preseason. It most certainly is not cheap to do the same thing at OT, so the team can't carry a guy who has, realistically, a relatively low chance of playing at a high level next year.

For what it's worth, I don't *want* Willie to announce his retirement right now. I'd love to be wrong about his condition, and see him come back for a couple of more Pro-Bowl caliber years. But that's probably a longshot and this is the NFL, and with the salary cap, every dollar he makes (and he's making a lot of them right now) is a dollar we can't pay his replacement. 12 months ago might as well be a thousand years ago in terms of how it helps the team next year. I do think he owes it to the team (who has shown him exceptional loyalty) to make a realistic assessment my, say, April 1 of his condition. He suffers from some ailments that, historically, tend to seriously hamper an athlete's performance. My guess is he very well may have played through some things that maybe he shouldn't have, and now he's paying the price. Basically, Willie's not rehabbing an injury - he's rehabbing old age.

Hey, I love Willie. But this team (as all NFL teams) finds itself, again, at the crossroads where they can decide to continue to reward loyalty by paying a guy who can't play OR do what it takes to win, and in this case those two goals may be completely opposed to each other. As a practical matter, when you're paying your QB what the Bengals are, you can't go into camp with a major question mark (or two) at OT.