BengalszoneBilly Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I have to say this caught me off guard... Don Shula: Spygate would mar Pats' undefeated season Tuesday, November 6th 2007, 4:00 AM Don Shula, the coach of the only perfect season in NFL history, believes the Patriots have a legitimate shot at running the table and joining his '72 Dolphins in going undefeated in the regular season and playoffs. But if they can pull it off, Shula insists the NFL needs to place an asterisk next to the Patriots in the record books because Bill Belichick got caught cheating in the Spygate scandal. Shula is naturally protective of the Dolphins' accomplishment and certainly wants that '72 team to stand alone. Long ago, he said, he learned that "rooting doesn't make anything happen. The Patriots look so good. I think they got a real shot at doing it." The Dolphins were 14-0 in the regular season and 3-0 in the playoffs, including the Super Bowl. If the Patriots don't lose, they will finish 19-0. Shula admires the Patriots' team, but then, without being asked, he said Spygate negatively impacts the way they should be perceived this season. "The Spygate thing has diminished what they've accomplished. You would hate to have that attached to your accomplishments. They've got it," Shula told the Daily News yesterday. "Belichick was fined $500,000, the team was fined $250,00 and they lost a first-round draft choice. That tells you the seriousness or significance of what they found. "I guess you got the same thing as putting an asterisk by Barry Bonds' home run record. I guess it will be noted that the Patriots were fined and a No.1 draft choice was taken away during that year of accomplishment. The sad thing is Tom Brady looks so good, it doesn't look like he needs any help." Told that he might get support in his desire to have an asterisk placed next to New England's potential perfect season, Shula, the winningest coach in NFL history, said, "I don't know how people can't agree with that." The Patriots were caught on the sidelines videotaping the Jets' defensive signals in the first half of the opening game of this season. They were forced to turn over tapes of all their previous spying to two league senior vice presidents in Foxborough in September. After they were viewed, commissioner Roger Goodell surprisingly ordered the tapes destroyed. "You have to acknowledge what they accomplished, but I don't know how you disregard Spygate," Shula said. "It's there. It happened. You don't know what was on those tapes and how much it helped. I think the commissioner just wanted it to go away." The Patriots are 9-0 after their 24-20 victory over the previously undefeated Colts in Indianapolis on Sunday. They overcame a 10-point deficit with less than 10 minutes remaining, which may have been their biggest challenge to making it through the regular season undefeated. If they didn't lose Sunday in a hostile environment against the defending Super Bowl champions after not playing well until the fourth quarter, then just who is going to beat them? There have been serious runs made at a perfect regular season in the 35 years since the Dolphins did it. The '85 Bears started 12-0, then lost on a Monday night to Shula and the Dolphins. Shula invited many of the players from the '72 team to stand on the sidelines for that game. The '91 Redskins were 11-0, the '98 Broncos and '05 Colts started 13-0 and the '06 Colts opened 9-0. When the Chargers beat the Colts two years ago, phallus Anderson, a safety on the '72 Dolphins, paid for a case of Dom Perignon champagne to be delivered to the Chargers. Anderson and Nick Buoniconti, the former Dolphins linebacker, live on the same street in the Miami area and share a tradition of meeting in one of their driveways to pop the cork on a bottle of champagne when the last undefeated team goes down. "They are too cheap to invite the rest of us to the party," Shula said. The perception has been that the '72 Dolphins are sitting around ready to drink up if the Patriots lose. "I think the champagne celebrations have been blown out of proportion," Shula said. In fact, Jim Mandich, a tight end on that Dolphins team and now an analyst on their radio broadcasts, resents how that team has been portrayed. "You guys put forth the myth that we are pathetic losers down here clicking champagne glasses and clinging desperately to a record set 35 years ago," Mandich said yesterday. "Somehow we've been portrayed as being evil. We don't ever blow our own horn. It's a great record, but the record doesn't get beaten. The Patriots have assembled a powerhouse of a team. They are a classy bunch of guys and play ball the right way. If they want to join the unbeaten club, come on aboard." Anderson admits that if the record stands, "We would not be unhappy. We're not trying to be obnoxious about it, but we're proud we have a record nobody else does. If New England does it this year, we will sit and raise a glass of champagne to them." Shula might not take a sip, unless the glass has an asterisk imprinted on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agreen_112 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 That's a bunch of BS, Shula's a douche... The Pats can win the SB in their sleep this year, that's the ONLY reason why I'm not too upset about the Bengals doing so horrible. I'm pulling for them to go undefeated. Brady > Manning... always has been! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimster28 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 anyone who want pats to be undefeated is retard, they cheat and they lost respect from alot of people when they keep on pass and scoring in 4th quarter and go for it on 4th downplus what more, pats will lost to colts in playoff as colts will have harrison back in game by then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I have no love for the Patriots and think the cheating scandal has only temporarily been forgotten due to the coverup scandal that followed. That said, what's up with everyone suddenly wanting an asterisk placed on everything? It's not like they're going to give back the trophies, the money, or the acclaim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 His asterik remark was in regards to the undefeated season possibility.And the fact is the only game Belichick's been able to use his Tom Clancy spy gear, was in the opener against the Jets - a team they would've smacked around with their 2nd stringers any ways. Obviously they were busted and dealt with afterwards.Not sure where "dad" is coming from here - the Pats record this year is legit. They went out and upgraded their team for another SB run and are laying wood on the league per the norm. He and the old timers from '72 will just have to deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimster28 Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 they wont have to deal with it because pats wont be undefeated this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 they wont have to deal with it because pats wont be undefeated this year.So who might you think will knock them off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimster28 Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 like i say in my first post here, indy will beat them in play off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 like i say in my first post here, indy will beat them in play offWell by the time they meet Indy again in the playoffs, they will have already beaten the 17-0 record by at least one game. The question here then remains will breaking the record of straight wins in a season, but losing a title game still eclipses the record. Tough call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 like i say in my first post here, indy will beat them in play off My favorite conspiracy theory is crafted around the idea that Roger Goodell won't risk further embarrassment due to the cheating scandal and will do everything possible to prevent the Patriots from winning a championship. I admit it's a half-baked idea, but it pleases me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1 Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Shula's just a bitter old man. If he were smarter he'd hold his comments till after the Pats lose a game and if they do go undeated, then act like he couldn't care less.Never let 'am see you cry.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted November 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Shula reasserts criticism of Patriots November 8, 2007MIAMI (AP) -- Don Shula used softer language Thursday, but stuck by his belief the New England Patriots' success this season is diminished by the spying scandal that prompted stiff punishment from the NFL in September. In an interview with The Associated Press, Shula laughed when asked if the Patriots deserve an asterisk if they finish 19-0. "That's not for me to say," the Pro Football Hall of Fame coach said. "They were penalized, after the first game, wasn't it? They had a No. 1 draft choice taken away, and (coach Bill) Belichick was fined, and the team was fined. ... "Since then they've been playing within the rules, and their accomplishments should be recognized. But if there was something that happened to diminish what they've accomplished, then that has been noted." Shula coached the Miami Dolphins to a 17-0 record in 1972, still the NFL's only perfect season. He caused a stir when he first made critical comments regarding the Patriots scandal to the New York Daily News on Monday. "You would hate to have that attached to your accomplishments. They've got it," Shula told the newspaper. "I guess you got the same thing as putting an asterisk by Barry Bonds' home run record. I guess it will be noted that the Patriots were fined and a No. 1 draft choice was taken away during that year of accomplishment." However, Shula declined to make the Bonds comparison when asked about it by the AP. "I don't know enough about Barry Bonds," Shula said. And Shula backtracked Thursday when discussing the Patriots on ESPN's "Mike and Mike in the Morning." "If they run the table, and they win all the games, then they are doing it within the rules of the National Football League," Shula told ESPN. "And there shouldn't be any asterisk to it. That would be the accomplishment that they made. It would be the best in all of sports." Following the Patriots' season opener, the NFL determined the team used a video camera to spy on opposing coaches and steal signals. Commissioner Roger Goodell fined Belichick $500,000 and docked the team $250,000 and a first-round draft pick next year. The Patriots are 9-0 this season after defeating previously unbeaten Indianapolis last Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riagogogoindanati Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 This is obviously my own personal opinion.If you are caught cheating in any way, shape, or form DURING a game, you should have to forfeit said game. Their entire season should not contain an asterik*, per say. But he Jets game should. We can only assume they did this throughout the last several years during a few games or more than a few. There is no evidence of previous infractions. But as it stands with me, they were caught red handed and should have had to forfeit that game vs. Jets along with other appropriate fines and or penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agreen_112 Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 I really don't get how this is considered cheating? Honestly, I think it's smart. If I'm playing a game of madden and the guy next to me isn't desguising his plays or is holding his controler so far out that I can see the screen and his stick. I'm doing everything I can to see what play he's picking. Give's me the upper hand, I win everytime. Is this cheating? Stealing signals are a part of everygame. Baseball, football, basketball, hockey, volleyball, ect. Any advantage gives you the upper-hand. You can't tell me as a kid playing ball that you didnt' look at the 3rd base coach and try to key in on his signals. s**t, I was able to look out of the corner of my eye in Babe Ruth and see what pitch the catcher was calling for... Or on the basketball court trying to figure out how each play call is ran. It's not cheating if the rule isnt' there, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riagogogoindanati Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Their is a code of ethics. So I guess to fine the coach and the team didn't mean that something wrong happened. I would've expected a huge appeal instead of them paying the fines as an admission of their own guilt.I guess you can do what you want to do, but when it comes down to video taping for later use........yuk! Or we can just call it Sneaking instead of Cheating. Both are for personal gain.Whether it is video games or a math test. I guess it's okay to look at the persons answers next to you and it not be considered cheating. I guess we'll agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 It's not cheating if the rule isnt' there, IMHO. But there were rules. Very detailed ones. Systematically broken in ways that couldn't have been accidental. The funny thing about cheating is how people will attempt to positively spin the act if commited by someone of unquestioned competence. The cheating is portrayed as just another sign of their commitment to win, and the wronged party is simply a victim of their own inferiority. However, if your level of competence isn't above reproach the act of cheating becomes one more nail in your coffin, defining you as a morally challenged douchebag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1 Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 But there were rules. Very detailed ones. Systematically broken in ways that couldn't have been accidental. The funny thing about cheating is how people will attempt to positively spin the act if commited by someone of unquestioned competence. The cheating is portrayed as just another sign of their commitment to win, and the wronged party is simply a victim of their own inferiority. However, if your level of competence isn't above reproach the act of cheating becomes one more nail in your coffin, defining you as a morally challenged douchebag.Yep, I wholehearedly agree with HOF on this. Cheating is cheating. I simply feel Shula should have kept his mouth shut. It smacks too much of whining, especially from someone who has something to lose by the Pats going 16-0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riagogogoindanati Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 and now, all of the evidence has magically deliciously disappeared. hmmmmmmm.......................A fine like that was a slap on the wrist to that organization. In hindsite, making them forfeit that game would have been much bigger right about now. And losing draft picks is not going to hurt their organization. Billycheck (sp) has prided himself on signing free agents, not building their team with newbies like the Bengals have year in and year out. Now, banning them from signing any new free agents or re-signing any existing players next year would've been something. But that was never going to happen. Harsh you say? Hell yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 and now, all of the evidence has magically deliciously disappeared. hmmmmmmm.......................That's it Ria. To me, a bigger scandal than one team breaking the rules is the league destroying all the evidence regarding said violation. I'm completely baffled by the "press" that covers the NFL. Their unwillingness to report on this is journalistic malpractice.Goodell and Belicheat are happy to have us all focusing on this year. They can just say, "it was one game and no competitive advantage was gained." As long as we're all asking that question, no one is asking, "What was in the destroyed evidence, and what did that evidence say about the legitimacy of the championships won by the Commissioner's pet franchise, and about the competitive integrity of the league in those season?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted November 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Don Shula checks back in with us on the touchy subject of the Patriots. >>>LINK<<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 I could spend all day watching those Bang cartoons. That's funny as hell !!!WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 It's not cheating if the rule isnt' there, IMHO. But there were rules. Very detailed ones. Systematically broken in ways that couldn't have been accidental. The funny thing about cheating is how people will attempt to positively spin the act if commited by someone of unquestioned competence. The cheating is portrayed as just another sign of their commitment to win, and the wronged party is simply a victim of their own inferiority. However, if your level of competence isn't above reproach the act of cheating becomes one more nail in your coffin, defining you as a morally challenged douchebag.Not really. They were suitably punished for one half of football in the 1st game of the season, for doing something that we all know had no effect on the outcome of the game. The camera was confiscated at half time and they will be hard pressed to do it again.They were punished. So what's the beef?"My" point was in reference to Shula's undefeated asterik comment, nothing else. Not sure about the "morally challenged douchebag" stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 They were suitably punished for one half of football in the 1st game of the season, for doing something that we all know had no effect on the outcome of the game.Their punishment was three quarters of a million dollars in fines, and loss of a first round draft pick. To me that seems like the hammer. I can't think of comparable cases, cases that involved trickery to get a competitive advantage. But it seems to me that if the evidence just showed taping in that Jets game, and no competitive advantage was gained, then the Patriots' punishment was way too severe.The only way I can reconcile the severity of the punishment with the deafening silence from the Patriots after it was meted out is to assume the Patriots had been cheating in previous seasons in ways that provided a competitive advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 The only way I can reconcile the severity of the punishment with the deafening silence from the Patriots after it was meted out is to assume the Patriots had been cheating in previous seasons in ways that provided a competitive advantage. Exactly. Kid Steakhouse may believe the cheating only occured during the first half of the first game, but not only is that opinion hopelessly naive, there was plenty of evidence proving it had occured for years. In fact, that eveidence was the very reason the NFL issued the warning the Patriots chose to ignore in the opener. Far harder to prove is how much of an advantage the cheating provided, but the NFL effectively sidestepped that debate by burning the evidence rather than making it available for limited public examination. Ironically, the one thing that can give Spygate another breath of life is another Patriot championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted November 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 Ironically, the one thing that can give Spygate another breath of life is another Patriot championship.Screw it then. Let it remain a corpse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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