Fire Marvin

[HairOnFire]

What is SOP's fault is he is too cheap to pay people to evaluate talent, which includes a General Manager. He may have the 4th highest payroll in football, but guess what? He's paying the wrong people!

Might be a good time to mention that Corey Simon just retired. The same Corey Simon that Mike Brown chased, but backed away from when the Colt's agreed to make him the highest paid defensive player in the entire NFL.

[Jet23]

What is SOP's fault is he is too cheap to pay people to evaluate talent, which includes a General Manager. He may have the 4th highest payroll in football, but guess what? He's paying the wrong people!

Might be a good time to mention that Corey Simon just retired. The same Corey Simon that Mike Brown chased, but backed away from when the Colt's agreed to make him the highest paid defensive player in the entire NFL.

Yeah, Mike has it all over the Colts. I once picked off a pass intended for Cris Carter. I am so way better than Cris Carter.

[Kazkal]

Marvin with a healthy roster = 11-5.

Marvin with injury-plagued rosters = 8-8, 2-5

That's all I need to see.

True that TDB.

[HairOnFire]

I once picked off a pass intended for Cris Carter. I am so way better than Cris Carter.

I once blocked Tony Campbell's shot during a pickup game at OSU. Not only did the put back bloody his nose....it left me in a perfect spot to watch him pick up the loose ball and dunk over one of my friends.

Good times.

[ArmyBengal]

This season has made me not only frustrated in regards to the season, but in what I see in some of the posters of this site. Part of the losing attitude that has plagued the players of this organization, also plague the fans and the minute things look like they are going south, they are ready and willing to make moves without thought. The whining is just rediculous. I've never seen things this way on this board before. It's quite disheartening and takes the fun out of coming here.

I'm not saying we should all see things through rose tinted glasses, just that instead of making snap decisions, to take things into consideration and think about how said decisions will affect the team...

I'm still ok with Marvin, not so much in other areas concerning this team...

WHODEY !!!

[CarsonCity]

This season has made me not only frustrated in regards to the season, but in what I see in some of the posters of this site. Part of the losing attitude that has plagued the players of this organization, also plague the fans and the minute things look like they are going south, they are ready and willing to make moves without thought. The whining is just rediculous. I've never seen things this way on this board before. It's quite disheartening and takes the fun out of coming here.

I'm not saying we should all see things through rose tinted glasses, just that instead of making snap decisions, to take things into consideration and think about how said decisions will affect the team...

I'm still ok with Marvin, not so much in other areas concerning this team...

WHODEY !!!

Well said AB. My sentiments exactly. I really enjoyed this site at first because the posters actually talked about, ya know, football. Now it seems every thread is just an outlet to whine about the coaches, coordinators, owner, etc. It's almost gotten to the point where I hope the Bengals win just so I can read about them online without having to sift through all the b*tching and moaning.

Of course, that'll probably label me as drinking the Bengals kool-aid or somehow being content with 8-8 or a losing season (which is laughable at best), but so be it.

[BengalszoneBilly]

It`s not Mike Brown`s fault that players they were counting

on to rebuild the Defense, or that they paid to anchor the

O-line, or RB`s and WR`s have been injured or suspended.

That's just a weak excuse for inept ownership and coaching. The Patriots have the same amount of injuries this week as do the Bengals, yet they still field a quality product with reserve players. Plus their coaching staff is smart enough to count to eleven on every play. It seems the Bengals staff quits when they run out of the fingers that they're counting on.

Let`s let go of the 90`s and talk about now.

Well right now the play by the Bengals of the '90's, and the Bengals of 2007 is practically indistinguishable from then to now. So are the records, so you really can't blame someone for having a flashback. BTW, if this lackluster job by Marvin Lewis and his boy Bresnahan keeps up, it'll be more than a flashback. It'll be reality.

NO MORE WUSSY EXCUSES - JUST WIN.

[oldschooler]

That's just a weak excuse for inept ownership and coaching. The Patriots have the same amount of injuries this week as do the Bengals, yet they still field a quality product with reserve players. Plus their coaching staff is smart enough to count to eleven on every play. It seems the Bengals staff quits when they run out of the fingers that they're counting on.

Whatever. Call it what you want.

I`m pretty sure Belichick followed a Hall of Fame coach.

He didn`t have to rebuild anything, or install a new culture.

The draft picks the Bengals spent on Offense was to enhance

the talent that was already in place.

There are 2 Defensive players on the roster that played

for the Bengals in 2004. Justin Smith and Jonh Thornton.

The draft picks the Bengals have spent on Defense were

to rebuild the Defense.

The two highest draft picks Marvin spent on Defense

was in 2005, and neither have taken a snap this season.

The highest draft pick he spent on a Defensive player in 2004

was cut earlier this season. The highest draft pick he spent

on Defense in 2006 had surgery on one of his feet, and was

suspended one game. Other players they drafted or brought

in to help rebuild Rucker, Askew, Weathersby, Kilmer and

Caleb Miller either had injuries and haven`t been able to

contribute, or fizzled out.

I didn`t even mention Ahmad Brooks, Eric Henderson

and Rashad Jeanty. You don`t lose that many players

you were counting on to rebuild one side of the ball

and not feel it.

Plus we have been banged up at WR behind CJ and TJ,

and our O-line was playing musical chairs for awhile.

And we have been missing our leading rusher who

has broken franchise records. And our 1st round

pick RB from 2004, and our 2nd round pick

from 2007.

You call it an excuse. I call it reality. No team is

as banged up as the Bengals. And sometimes

it doesn`t matter how many players are injured,

but what players are hurt.

Well right now the play by the Bengals of the '90's, and the Bengals of 2007 is practically indistinguishable from then to now. So are the records, so you really can't blame someone for having a flashback. BTW, if this lackluster job by Marvin Lewis and his boy Bresnahan keeps up, it'll be more than a flashback. It'll be reality.

Surely to God you don`t really think that ? And yes I called you Shirley . . .

[BengalszoneBilly]

Whatever. Call it what you want.

I call it facts, and your reply is still chock full of weak excuses. You mentioned Rudi being out, but blantantly left out how well Kenny Watson has done in his stead. He was the Fed Ex ground player of the week! And as far as our (wasted) #1 pick from 2004 Chris Perry (who's name you couldn't even bring yourself to mention) it just shows how rediculous your argument is! He's NEVER been a factor in Cincinnati's offense, and never will be. These are undeniable facts. After you wade out of your kiddie pool filled full of Marvin's Kool-aide for blind homers, you'll recognize them as such.

Surely to God you don`t really think that ? And yes I called you Shirley . . .

Call me any infantile name you'd like. It's hardly "Old School" worthy, but it appears thats just a catchy moniker.

Back to the point...even during the preseason before all your excuse worthy injuries occured, and teams like the Lions and the Falcons were lighting up the Bengals defense, I was hitting the panic button and predicting doom for this team, and it has without a doubt come to pass. Sure, the opening win against the Ravens gave me some hope, but the unexplicable happened when Baltimore's Brian Billick out brain farted Marvin Lewis and handed us that game. Reality came calling in game #2, and hasn't left since.

Sure, we beat the lowly Jets, but that's hardly anything to crow about, unless of course you want to. I'll decline.

Now, if you want to ignore the extremely poor coaching this team has been subjected to, and instead strive to believe in excuses instead of excellence, then by all means go right ahead. Sometimes old dogs can't learn new tricks. This "old dog" has seen crap coaching before. Marvin Lewis is in over his head, and he will only sink deeper taking this team with him. Yes...that's IMHO, but so far I haven't been too far off the mark. Well, except for saying this team would be 8-8. I was wrong there. They'll probably be a 1990's worthy 6-10 before this season wraps up.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Firing coaches didn't help the Browns.

I beg to differ sir. It got you Romeo Crennel, and competing for the division title with the Steelers. Sure, you got some good draft choices, but your top draft choice (Brady Quinn) is still waiting in the wings behind Derek Anderson, who I might add tore the Bengals defense a new a$$hole when we faced each other!

Bottom line...Cincinnati got out coached.

[ArmyBengal]

Kenny Watson won the WHATEVER award for the week against the Jets, so who cares ?? Done well in Rudi's absense ?? I would say he's done ok in his absense, but no better. Amazing how after the Jets game, it was all about the "reimmergence" of the running game. Would that be the same running game with Kenny Watson ?? It was against the Jets for Christ's sake and where was the running game Sunday against the Steelers ?? Oh yeah, fumbled away in the redzone...

WHODEY !!!

[oldschooler]

I call it facts, and your reply is still chock full of weak excuses. You mentioned Rudi being out, but blantantly left out how well Kenny Watson has done in his stead. He was the Fed Ex ground player of the week! And as far as our (wasted) #1 pick from 2004 Chris Perry (who's name you couldn't even bring yourself to mention) it just shows how rediculous your argument is! He's NEVER been a factor in Cincinnati's offense, and never will be. These are undeniable facts. After you wade out of your kiddie pool filled full of Marvin's Kool-aide for blind homers, you'll recognize them as such.

Kenny Watson won an award against one of the worst rushing Defenses in the NFL !

The Bengals have the 21st ranked rushing Offense in the NFL.

You really think Rudi and Perry combined with Kenny wouldn`t help

in that area ?

Perry has never been a factor in the Bengals Offense ?

Funny, he played in 14 games the year we won the division.

Do you even watch football ? Or are you to busy wallowing

in your self Bengaldom doom and gloom ?

Call me any infantile name you'd like. It's hardly "Old School" worthy, but it appears thats just a catchy moniker.

I came up with the ID because I have been a Bengals fan ever since the old school days.

And I see you have never seen the movie Airplane, and/or have no sense of humor.

Back to the point...even during the preseason before all your excuse worthy injuries occured, and teams like the Lions and the Falcons were lighting up the Bengals defense, I was hitting the panic button and predicting doom for this team, and it has without a doubt come to pass.

Geez. The Lions lit up players that aren`t even on the team right now.

Sure, the opening win against the Ravens gave me some hope, but the unexplicable happened when Baltimore's Brian Billick out brain farted Marvin Lewis and handed us that game. Reality came calling in game #2, and hasn't left since.

Yes reality did come in game 2, that`s when players started dropping like flies.

And they haven`t come back since.

Sure, we beat the lowly Jets, but that's hardly anything to crow about, unless of course you want to. I'll decline.

Wait, you were crowing because Kenny Watson won some award running against them.

But in the same breath, they`re not worth crowing over ?

Now, if you want to ignore the extremely poor coaching this team has been subjected to, and instead strive to believe in excuses instead of excellence, then by all means go right ahead. Sometimes old dogs can't learn new tricks. This "old dog" has seen crap coaching before. Marvin Lewis is in over his head, and he will only sink deeper taking this team with him. Yes...that's IMHO, but so far I haven't been too far off the mark. Well, except for saying this team would be 8-8. I was wrong there. They'll probably be a 1990's worthy 6-10 before this season wraps up.

Extremely poor coaching ?

Bill Cowher has had a losing season more recently than Marvin Lewis has.

Marvin has had more success than he has had failure. He took the laughing stock,

doormat of the NFL and in less than 5 seasons, gave fans so much hope and respect back,

so quickly, that now some won`t even let injuries be an excuse for losing. And say he is

a bad coach worthy of being fired.

Kind of ironic isn`t it ?

[COB]

After you wade out of your kiddie pool filled full of Marvin's Kool-aide for blind homers, you'll recognize them as such.

Good one Billie. I know you want Marvin fired, but again I ask who will replace him. Head Coach in the NFL is a complex and difficult job. I believe it takes years of experience to become proficient at it. And I fear if we hire a new one now, we'll just be in for another several years of learning on the job.

I'm not saying that any moron could do it with years of experience. Marvin has shown that he's a good coach. With all the hysterics on here regarding Mike Brown's deficiencies, surely we can agree that no losing seasons in his first four working in the Mike Brown organization shows proficiency.

True, Marvin is 2-5 partway through year 5. If you didn't like my Jeff Fisher example, how about current coaching flavor of the month, year, maybe the decade, Bill Belichek? He was 3-4 partway into his fifth year. And he went on to win 5 games that year. And that fifth year followed seasons of 5-11, 11-5, 7-9, and 7-9. Yep, four losing seasons in his first five. It takes years to learn to be an NFL head coach. Countless very good college coaches have tried and failed. There is nothing wrong with Marvin. There is a whole lot wrong with our talent level.

Back into the kiddie pool for me.

[Jet23]

First, I know where you are coming from Army. I think you will see frustration posts on Sunday and Monday following a loss. After reflecting on it a bit, I have come to the realization that Marvin simply needs help. Prior to a Super Bowl run in 1988, Paul Brown mandated that Same Wyche needed to spend more time with his family and less time in his office. Sam credited this move to clearing his mind and getting his focus back. Who does Marvin have to help him? That would be nobody. He has the weight of the entire organization on his shoulders and it is really starting to show. Mike Brown is slowly killing the spirit of Marvin Lewis.

I gave Mike Brown credit for finally stepping outside of the Organization to hire Marvin. He has to take the next step, which is to hire a General Manager from outside the Organization. Mike Brown has to make this move, because Marvin is probably too proud to recognize this himself. The status quo has to be changed.

[CarsonCity]

Kenny Watson won the WHATEVER award for the week against the Jets, so who cares ?? Done well in Rudi's absense ?? I would say he's done ok in his absense, but no better. Amazing how after the Jets game, it was all about the "reimmergence" of the running game. Would that be the same running game with Kenny Watson ?? It was against the Jets for Christ's sake and where was the running game Sunday against the Steelers ?? Oh yeah, fumbled away in the redzone...

WHODEY !!!

Not trying to get off topic, but right now I see Kenny Watson as a definite upgrade over Rudi. And it's not about what team(s) he plays against, but rather his style of running. He hits holes quick. He cuts without losing any speed. He doesn't stutter step for what seems like an eternity in the backfield. He can get outside and pick up positive yardage. And I've been quite pleased to see him display the ability to break tackles by either spinning out of them, or at the very least falling forward. Yes, our O-Line has been banged up for the past season and half and Lord knows how much effect that's had on the running game, but Rudi has been ineffective for a long time (<4.0 YPC).

I love RJ for what he's done for our offense in years past, but right now, IMHO, Kenny Watson is the better back and should be starting every week.

[JohnsonX5]

Kenny Watson won the WHATEVER award for the week against the Jets, so who cares ?? Done well in Rudi's absense ?? I would say he's done ok in his absense, but no better. Amazing how after the Jets game, it was all about the "reimmergence" of the running game. Would that be the same running game with Kenny Watson ?? It was against the Jets for Christ's sake and where was the running game Sunday against the Steelers ?? Oh yeah, fumbled away in the redzone...

WHODEY !!!

He's done much better than Rudi would have done imo. With the exception of the fumble, I thought the running game looked solid against the Steelers - it's just that the carries weren't there. A couple more carries and it would have been Watson's second straight one hundred yard game. I'll take Watson's 4.7 ypc over Rudi's 3.0 ypc anyday - you'd think Marvin would take those extra yards as well, but it probably makes too much sense to give the guy who gets more yards the majority of the carries.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Marvin has had more success than he has had failure.

This is where we differ. I don't consider 8-8 success. I define it as mediocre, but if your happy with that, so be it. My standards are higher. BTW, this year WILL be worse.

[ArmyBengal]

Oh I get the whole YPC carry thing when comparing Watson to Rudi... I just don't see where his running has done anything to help except against the Jets. When people talk about the "reimmergence" of the running game, I expect to see something. I have NOT... Funny how some (doesn't have to be YOU) can say injuries are just an excuse, but then say injuries have caused (insert your favorite player here) to have a bad game. Not to mention (insert you favorite player here)'s replacement is injured as well.... Can I appreciate what Watson has done with his opportunity to replace Rudi ?? Yes, I just won't say he's done such a great job at it. Just one opinion out the many here...

WHODEY !!!

[ArmyBengal]

Oh yeah, a couple more carries would have given him a 100 yard game right ?? Not that it would have done anything more than given us the chance to say we ran for 100 yards against the Steelers, but isn't that an issue with yet another coordinator ??

WHODEY !!!

[Kazkal]

Kenny Watson won an award against one of the worst rushing Defenses in the NFL !

Ya but Rudi's big games tend be against bad defenses too,I love him but our run game could be improved overall.

Should take that kid out of oregon(Jonathan Stewart) next year we'll be like the lions but with RB's

[The PatternMaster]

Marvin has had more success than he has had failure.

This is where we differ. I don't consider 8-8 success. I define it as mediocre, but if your happy with that, so be it. My standards are higher. BTW, this year WILL be worse.

This is what I don't understand about some Bengals fans, where do you get these high expectations from. When have the Bengals ever been a consistant winner where they won 10-13 games a year for like 5 years in a row. Where do the fans get this sense of entitlement and high expectations from? Marvin Lewis maybe, I don't know. If he is the reason why fans have these expectations, would firing him make sense?

I like in NYC and I get see the most obnoxious fans on the face of the earth, New York Yankees fans. These guys act like if they don't win the World Series every year the season is a failure, they fire their manager only after he makes the playoffs 12 straight years and wins 4 world series. But I can understand why they have a sense of entitlement and high expectations, they have experienced success in the past and they have the highest payroll in the league. When I see Bengals fans behaving like Yankee fans I don't understand it because the Bengals have NEVER experienced long periods of success.

As someone pointed out in a post last week, our most successful coaches only made the playoffs twice during their tenure. The legend that is Paul Brown only went twice, same for Forrest Gregg and Sam Wyche. Marvin has already delivered us one playoff appereance and he has some of the tools in place to do it again. Considering where this franchise was before Marvin showed up and were it is today I would say the only reason why fans can say things like 8-8 is not good enough is because of Lewis.

[oldschooler]

Marvin has had more success than he has had failure.

This is where we differ. I don't consider 8-8 success. I define it as mediocre, but if your happy with that, so be it. My standards are higher. BTW, this year WILL be worse.

Who said I`m happy with medicore ?

I`m so tired of the same crap from some fans.

If you`re not constantly whining, complaining and

wanting people fired, you`re "happy".

8-8 isn`t success, but it isn`t failure either.

The Bengals have had no losing seasons, and one

winning season under Marvin. So like it or not,

that means he has had more success than failure.

And believe it or not, at this moment, Marvin has

a winning record as the Bengals Head Coach.

And I love how you said this year WILL be worse, and follow it up

with a smiley face that symbols something that`s cool. You say

your standards are high, but it appears you relish being a loser . . .

[Jet23]

Marvin has had more success than he has had failure.

This is where we differ. I don't consider 8-8 success. I define it as mediocre, but if your happy with that, so be it. My standards are higher. BTW, this year WILL be worse.

Who said I`m happy with medicore ?

I`m so tired of the same crap from some fans.

If you`re not constantly whining, complaining and

wanting people fired, you`re "happy".

8-8 isn`t success, but it isn`t failure either.

The Bengals have had no losing seasons, and one

winning season under Marvin. So like it or not,

that means he has had more success than failure.

And believe it or not, at this moment, Marvin has

a winning record as the Bengals Head Coach.

And I love how you said this year WILL be worse, and follow it up

with a smiley face that symbols something that`s cool. You say

your standards are high, but it appears you relish being a loser . . .

I would like to hear from you Old Schooler. What do you see as the problem? Is it just plain dumb luck that the Bengals are going through one of the worst periods of futility in the history of professional sports? It can't be Mike Brown, because it appears that you are most satisfied with his efforts.

For the record, in 2005 I commented that their success was an aberration based on Pete's parity involving easy schedules and high draft picks for perennial losers.

If every fan was like you, we would be enjoying our 16th season with David Shula at the helm.

[oldschooler]

I would like to hear from you Old Schooler. What do you see as the problem? Is it just plain dumb luck that the Bengals are going through one of the worst periods of futility in the history of professional sports? It can't be Mike Brown, because it appears that you are most satisfied with his efforts.

I really don`t know what Mike Brown`s efforts now has to

do with his efforts pre Marvin. Things have changed

in case you haven`t been paying attention.So they`re

not "going through one of the worst periods" of anything

right now.

The Offense has Willie, Rudi, TJ, Chad and Levi left over

pre Marvin. The Defense has Justin Smith.

I see the problem as gutting a team of all but a few players,

trying to rebuild said team, and having key players that

they were counting on, to be injured or suspended. It really

is that simple.

For the record, in 2005 I commented that their success was an aberration based on Pete's parity involving easy schedules and high draft picks for perennial losers.

That makes no sense. Every AFC North team plays almost

the exact same schedule except for 2 games. And it`s

been that way for years now.

If every fan was like you, we would be enjoying our 16th season with David Shula at the helm.

You`re a tool. Seriously. How do you figure if fans were like me,

that we`d still have a coach that was fired over 10 years ago, and

his replacement was replaced, and his replacement was replaced ?

Listen up Moron. I spend a lot of time reading articles about the Bengals.

I am as informed, if not more informed, with what`s going on with the team

than most. I don`t define my worth by Bengals wins or losses either.

I`m not some knee jerk tool, that thinks because the Bengals have a losing

record, that it HAS to be because "SoP" is the owner, because Marvin suddenly

sucks as a coach, because Chad is such a distraction or whatever it is all you crybags

say it is this week.

A lot of coaches that are coaching winners right now, Belichick, Dungy,

Phillips, Tomlin ect, didn`t take over teams that was considered one of the worst

in sports. They didn`t have to change a culture and rebuild, like Marvin did.

They followed winning programs and cultures. Marvin has done a damn fine

job in a little more than 4 seasons. Is he perfect ? Hell no. I can think of a lot

of things he needs to improve on. But he has had success. More success than

failure. He proved with a relatively healthy team, that he can go 11-5 and

win the division. He has shown that with a team decimated by injuries and suspensions,

that he can go 8-8 and now 2-5. There are a lot of coaches, Dungy and Belchick instantly

come to mind, that weren`t as successful when they first started, as they are now.

Jeff Fisher, who I myself consider a good coach, has had 4 winning seasons out of 17,

prior to this season, and had four 8-8 seasons. That means he`s had more losing seasons,

than winning seasons. What has he done but take the Titans to one Super Bowl ?

And none of them had to go through half the s**t that Marvin has went through. I think he

has done more to trust him, than he has done to doubt him. So I don`t think he is an idiot.

And I sure as hell don`t think he should be fired.

*clue phone is ringing*

It`s for you . . .

[BengalByTheBay]

I`m not some knee jerk tool, that thinks because the Bengals have a losing

record, that it HAS to be because "SoP" is the owner, because Marvin suddenly

sucks as a coach, because Chad is such a distraction or whatever it is all you crybags

say it is this week.

Having seen this sad scenario before (as I'm sure you have OS), I am convinced there is something about this fanbase that, in a small way, would rather lose to be able to complain than win and be able to celebrate. A realist would think that it's impossible to chart a straight line from 2-14 to the Superbowl and that there will be ups & downs in between. It's certainly hard to keep your head when you see bad things happen on Sunday, but I tend to agree with you that we are currently in the midst of a fairly extreme (and in some odd way self-congratulatory) overreaction. But, hey, that's just me.