Whitlock on Chad

[kneepit]

Check out this Whitlock article. Lots of stuff on Chad.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7343980

[mgilgris]

While I fail to see the connection between hip hop and any of that, I do agree that teams in the future are not only taking into account each individuals rap sheet, but also his inability or ability to be coached as a team player.

The NFL and most of sports has lost a lot of that in the past 10 years. I still feel Chad's antics are not his selfishness or acting out but rather just a love for the game.

I enjoy emotional players including chad, as long as they do not end up causing problems.

Chad's outbursts may or may have had a troubling effect depending on your source inside the locker room.

[HairOnFire]

I said in response to the earlier Whitlock article that the Mr Bojangles remark had less to do with race and everything to do with a portion of black culture being embarrassed by too many of their young role models playing the smiling fool. In this article Whitlock not only confirms that, but takes things much further.

The article is long and includes so much controversial sounding material that I fear many people will miss the point. However, the following quote summed things up pretty well....

"Race is not the determining factor when it comes to having a good or bad attitude. Culture is.

Hip hop is the dominant culture for black youth. In general, music, especially hip hop music, is rebellious for no good reason other than to make money. Rappers and rockers are not trying to fix problems. They create problems for attention.

That philosophy, attitude and behavior go against everything football coaches stand for. They're in a constant battle to squash rebellion, dissent and second opinions from their players.

You know why Muhammad Ali is/was an icon? Because he rebelled against something meaningful and because he excelled in an individual sport. His rebellion didn't interfere with winning. Jim Brown, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc. rebelled with dignity and purpose.

What we're witnessing today are purposeless, selfish acts of buffoonery. Sensible people have grown tired of it. Football people are recognizing it doesn't contribute to a winning environment."

[The PatternMaster]

Whitlock is a moron, he is to sports writers what Al Sharpton is to reverands, they're both frauds. Why does this guy always have to bring race into issue. He acts like the NFL employs blacks due to government mandated policies saying they must have a certain percentage of minority players. Owners will employ whom ever they feel best gives them the chance to win, regardless of skin color.

This guy is a moron who is just looking for attention, didn't he get fired from the KC newspaper last year for something stupid. If a white guy wrote this column he would displinced and probably fired, the same should happen to Whitlock, imo.

[The PatternMaster]

I said in response to the earlier Whitlock article that the Mr Bojangles remark had less to do with race and everything to do with a portion of black culture being embarrassed by too many of their young role models playing the smiling fool. In this article Whitlock not only confirms that, but takes things much further.

The article is long and includes so much controversial sounding material that I fear many people will miss the point. However, the following quote summed things up pretty well....

"Race is not the determining factor when it comes to having a good or bad attitude. Culture is.

Hip hop is the dominant culture for black youth. In general, music, especially hip hop music, is rebellious for no good reason other than to make money. Rappers and rockers are not trying to fix problems. They create problems for attention.

That philosophy, attitude and behavior go against everything football coaches stand for. They're in a constant battle to squash rebellion, dissent and second opinions from their players.

You know why Muhammad Ali is/was an icon? Because he rebelled against something meaningful and because he excelled in an individual sport. His rebellion didn't interfere with winning. Jim Brown, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc. rebelled with dignity and purpose.

What we're witnessing today are purposeless, selfish acts of buffoonery. Sensible people have grown tired of it. Football people are recognizing it doesn't contribute to a winning environment."

A few things...

Hip Hop is the dominant culture for the youth of the world, I don't know if you been to Europe or Africa or Asia but most people under 30 have been influenced by hip hop in some way. Also Hip Hop culture isn't negative persay, there are negative aspects of the culture but that is same for any culture.

Whitlock is way off base, hip hop has nothing to do with what this over-blown a**h*** is talking about, it has more to do with how kids are being raised by their parents or lack thereof more than anything else. 30-40 years ago young people showed more respect to their elders than they do today, you can't blame that on hip-hop. Parents aren't instilling the same values that they were brought up with, alot of kids are growing up without their parents, etc..families units in America are almost non-existant compared to 30-40 years ago, that is more of the problem than hip hop.

I'm sure some black people see Chad's antics and get emberassed but that's their own issue that they have to deal with, Chad is not representing the whole African-American community when he scores a touchdown. I don't think the other races in America judge black people by what Chad does after he scores a touchdown or when he gets upset, if they do then they are stupid.

I'm a young black man under 30 who grew up on hip hop and there are positive aspects of the culture. As a matter of fact the first major hip hop group was started by an ex-gang member from the south Bronx, Africa Bambatta, as a way to keep kids off the streets and to stop the violence. Record companies promote violence and materialism because that sells more than positivity, don't blame hip hop for all of societies problems.

[HairOnFire]

I won't debate the merits of hip-hop, mostly because I've never bothered to learn much about it. In fact, Spike Lee was once asked how he'd explain rap and hip hop culture to whites and I agreed with him when he declined, saying..."There's nothing to explain. It's not for you."

But I will defend Whitlock's position that his views are rooted in culture, not race. He uses the examples of Jim Brown, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and others as a way of showing how important it once was for dignity and respect to be constantly demonstated by blacks who found themselves being role models for other blacks.

Black culture is rich and diverse and hip hop doesn't define it. However, unlike other forms of culture Hip hop has given birth to cultural touchstones like original gangstas, which artist or player has more street cred, are you a playa, whose keeping it real, or even whether a presidential candidate is black enough. But more to the point, hip hop culture and sports have merged in ways that few would have predicted, and there lies the problem. Because it's not really far fetched to compare the antics of Chad Johnson to Flava Flav.

Instead, what seems far fetched are comparisons of Chad to team LEADERS like Marvin Harrison or Jerry Rice.

[bengalboomer7]

I'm gonna make an attempt at the whole hip-hop deal realizing this could end badly. Take some of the 60's and 70's classic rock. They sang about something, causes, and were involved in what was going on around the world. Some(not all) of hip hop messages are getting money, f**king bitches, shooting guns, killing police. It's me, me , me. And we have a lot of similarities right now from the 60's(unpopular war, etc)

Now I do like some rap music. But most of the mainstream people I like have causes to their music(Talib Kwali, Common, Mos Def, etc)

I think some of the hip hop culture has created a bling, bling, me first, get money attitude that is not codusive to a team atmosphere.

In the end,though, I'm not sure it's as desolate as Whitlock percieves it to be.

[The PatternMaster]

I won't debate the merits of hip-hop, mostly because I've never bothered to learn much about it. In fact, Spike Lee was once asked how he'd explain rap and hip hop culture to whites and I agreed with him when he declined, saying..."There's nothing to explain. It's not for you."

But I will defend Whitlock's position that his views are rooted in culture, not race. He uses the examples of Jim Brown, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and others as a way of showing how important it once was for dignity and respect to be constantly demonstated by blacks who found themselves being role models for other blacks.

Black culture is rich and diverse and hip hop doesn't define it. However, unlike other forms of culture Hip hop has given birth to cultural touchstones like original gangstas, which artist or player has more street cred, are you a playa, whose keeping it real, or even whether a presidential candidate is black enough. But more to the point, hip hop culture and sports have merged in ways that few would have predicted, and there lies the problem. Because it's not really far fetched to compare the antics of Chad Johnson to Flava Flav.

Instead, what seems far fetched are comparisons of Chad to team LEADERS like Marvin Harrison or Jerry Rice.

Lets get one thing clear, this is entertainment and Chad is entertaining. There are modern day Jim Browns, Curtis Martin is one guy who comes to mind. Chad Johnson doesn't represent every African American, if you think he does then YOU have a problem, it's that simple. Chad should be able to be a good-natured guy who likes to joke around without being called Mr. Bojangles by some idiot with a pen. If Brett Farve was black I guess he would be Mr. Bojangles cause he jokes around and says silly things on occassion. You see how ridiculious this guy is, like I said if a white reporter wrote the exact same article he would be called a racist amongst other things, Whitlock is out of line and he needs to fall the f**k back!!

I've never heard Chad being called a leader, nor have I heard anyone refer to Marvin "quiet as a churchmouse" Harrison or Jerry Rice as a leader as well. As a matter of fact one of the reasons why the 49ers cut Rice was his refusal to mentor the younger receivers, oh wait he did mentor one guy named Terrell Owens, what a great leader and example he was.

Whitlock proves his views are rooted in race, says teams should whiten up their rosters as if there is some conspiracy to employ blacks, in short the guy is a moron and his column is nothing short of ridiculous.

Let's just wraps this up cause I'm bout to go home, it's almost 5pm(yabba dabba doo). You don't know s**t about hip hop, we both agree on that, so for you to defend Whitlock's position that hip hop has something to do with whatever problem Whitlock has with certain players is just...well it just don't make much sense. As someone who lives in the culture that you know nothing about, just take my word for it ok. You can compare Chad to Flava Flav cause they are both dark skinned guys who wear gold teeth and they entertain people for a living, but that's about it. ESPN is more concerned with street cred than hip hop, that's some corny ish if you use the term street cred then you don't have any. The term playa has been around for years long before hip hop was even thought of, also Jesse Jackson said Obama wasn't black enough so Jackson is hip hop know..like I said you clearly don't know what your talking about so..yeah whatever.

[COB]

Whitlock is way off base, hip hop has nothing to do with what this over-blown a**h*** is talking about, it has more to do with how kids are being raised by their parents or lack thereof more than anything else.

Pattern, you are exactly right. And please recognize the link between the two. The ascendency of a culture that glorifies crime and objectifies woman could only happen AFTER the demise of the traditional family model. Whitlock is pointing to the 1 ounce egg. You are pointing to the 10 pound chicken that laid it, and about ten others like it.

[bengalspride1219]

stupid article

[The PatternMaster]

I'm gonna make an attempt at the whole hip-hop deal realizing this could end badly. Take some of the 60's and 70's classic rock. They sang about something, causes, and were involved in what was going on around the world. Some(not all) of hip hop messages are getting money, f**king bitches, shooting guns, killing police. It's me, me , me. And we have a lot of similarities right now from the 60's(unpopular war, etc)

Now I do like some rap music. But most of the mainstream people I like have causes to their music(Talib Kwali, Common, Mos Def, etc)

I think some of the hip hop culture has created a bling, bling, me first, get money attitude that is not codusive to a team atmosphere.

In the end,though, I'm not sure it's as desolate as Whitlock percieves it to be.

Ok ok ok ok....your right materialism and the "me first" attitude didn't exist in America until hip hop came along..

Btw, there are rock & roll songs that have the same subject matter, f**king bitches, shooting police/people, so please don't blame hip hop music for all of societies ills, it's not that simple.

To quote a famous hip hop artist..."I was born in this world, I didn't make it" - The great Tupac Shakur.

[COB]

Whitlock is out of line and he needs to fall the f**k back!!

Attacking Whitlock and Hair won't help. To the extent that Hip Hop culture contributes to the me-first mindset, Whitlock is right. And Hair? Hey, I'd bet the overwhelming majority of white people who read that Whitlock column agree with it. Hair just has the guts to say so.

[COB]

Ok ok ok ok....your right materialism and the "me first" attitude didn't exist in America until hip hop came along..

Paul Hornung and Alex Karras were huge hip hop fans in the early '60s when they both got suspended for a year for gambling. Child molesting Mark Chmura? Hip Hop. Drug using belligerent malcontent Bill Romanowski? Hip Hop. Uber cancer Ryan Leaf? Probably is doing his own rap cd right now. Oh wait, they're all white. Forget about it.

[The PatternMaster]

Whitlock is out of line and he needs to fall the f**k back!!

Attacking Whitlock and Hair won't help. To the extent that Hip Hop culture contributes to the me-first mindset, Whitlock is right. And Hair? Hey, I'd bet the overwhelming majority of white people who read that Whitlock column agree with it. Hair just has the guts to say so.

I'm not attacking I'm just speaking the truth, sorry if you feel that way. If people agree then that shows how much people don't know, aka ignorance. I glad Hair spoke his mind, open and honest dialouge is the only way we can learn and hopefully change for the better.

But I'm not going to worry about offending someone when they clearly don't know what they are talking about, I mean Hair hands out verbal beat downs to people on this site on the regular when he feels they don't know what they are talking about, what's the difference, cause we are discussing race and socieo-economic issues, that's bs. I respect Hair, Whitlock not so much cause he should know better, but Hair I respect because he's being honest and open, you can't ask for more than that.

[teenbengal14]

Spike Lee was once asked how he'd explain rap and hip hop culture to whites and I agreed with him when he declined, saying..."There's nothing to explain. It's not for you."

F*CK Spike Lee, Im a white male and i appreciate hip hop and the culture, yes i know im not black but i appreciate art.. I listen and hear there struggles and i feel for them.. I mean being a fan of Nas (obviously) i know hip hop music, i mean its one of my passions.. I believe it is racist to say that because how can you say something is not for you.. But I still love He Got Game

Back to Whitlock, he sucks.. He sucks as a columnist.. He sucked when he was on PTI.. And he needs to eat some subway and diet a lil bit

[Chad Johnson]

glad the link didnt work for me cuz it wouldhave really pissed me off. First off, if you come from the struggle you mnd understand hip-hop a little more. But I cant expect everyone to grow up in crime infested ghettos of America that is THE GOVERMENTS fault, not hip hop. And another thing hip-hop isnt only a black representation, and blacks have more than a hip hop culture. SO this so called hip hop culture is a fraud of an ideology to me. Maybe if the govement did something to fix crime, and drugs people wouldnt talk about it. as far as ive seen in my life they just let the poverty roll down hill.

anyways im gettng way off subject, Chad is a great player and a great entertainer so why are people upset that he is flashy, i dont wanna see a whole team of bores, I like a lil bit f flashyness, it ENTERTAINMENT!!!!!

[Sundance_Kid]

Children are a product of their environment.

Newer generation’s exhibit a lack of ethical behaviour. Indicators of this unethical behaviour include violence and vandalism, stealing, cheating, disrespect for authority, peer cruelty, bigotry, bad language, sexual precocity and abuse, increasing self-centeredness and declining civic responsibility, and self-destructive behaviour. This is true since everyone of these catagories has risen in occurance over the past 2 decades. I'm sure we can all agree on that.

Yet..

The Pattern Master is right, saying poor parenting is mainly to blame.

However..

Once that failsafe has been broken (good parenting), how could Whitlock NOT be correct in saying that media, and specifically hip-hop (since he is talking about African-Americans) culture does not effect the modern black-athlete? If the modern black-athlete shows a derth of unethical behaviour, and "strong-character parenting" is not available (which we so commonly hear about in black communities), then media influences such as hip hop, which shows a derth of unethical behaviour, is clearly/should be, a source/target of reasoning behind ethical shortcomings in the modern black-athlete. The modern black-athlete (and a very high percentage of them) obviously listen to hip hop (Reggie Wayne "making it rain" when he scores TDs last year, LJ doing his best 'ROC' impression, etc.).

AND..

Everyone doesn't know CJ the way we do... so it is quite possible that a very large portion of the US believes Chad is a bojangler. Ignorance or not, who really pays attention to Cincinatti?

Lastly..

Pattern Master, stop hiding behind the fact you are black. "...well it just don't make much sense. As someone who lives in the culture that you know nothing about, just take my word for it ok. "

[HoosierCat]

Newer generation’s exhibit a lack of ethical behaviour. Indicators of this unethical behaviour include violence and vandalism, stealing, cheating, disrespect for authority, peer cruelty, bigotry, bad language, sexual precocity and abuse, increasing self-centeredness and declining civic responsibility, and self-destructive behaviour. This is true since everyone of these catagories has risen in occurance over the past 2 decades. I'm sure we can all agree on that.

I sure can! I swear, this country's going to go right down the tubes unless all those dirty hippies quit smoking that Mary Jane, listening to them Beatles, cut their hair and get a damn job!

Seriously, haven't we heard Whitlock's rant before? Like all the way back to the jazz age? How the kids and their wild music and carrrrazy ideas were the herald of the fall of civilization? Elvis, rock 'n' roll, the beatniks, hippies...now hip-hop.

Somehow, I'm going to bet that football -- and black football players -- survive.

[711chad]

yea dat was a stupid article...how do u put compare chad's mistakes to vicks

[HairOnFire]

Let's just wraps this up cause I'm bout to go home, it's almost 5pm(yabba dabba doo). You don't know s**t about hip hop, we both agree on that, so for you to defend Whitlock's position that hip hop has something to do with whatever problem Whitlock has with certain players is just...well it just don't make much sense.

I've attempted to stay out of the so-called hip hop debate because I think it's missing the point, just as I feared would happen because of the incendiary language that Whitlock uses. Frankly, I think he's making a very valid point about teamwork, leadership, and professionalism that was bound to get lost in angry responses about bojangling and minstrel shows.

But like you've said, I'm in a poor position to defend attacks on black culture by other blacks. Far better for you to angrily ignore what Whitlock is saying, call him a moron, and imply that he's so incompetent he'd lose his job if his skin was white.

How's that for irony?

So spare me the history lesson on a style of music and dance that I care nothing about. Instead, explain to me why the lack of discipline and professionalism being demonstrated should be tolerated in a sport where success is determined by an individuals ability to suppress his own ego and play within a team concept?

Fair enough?

[HairOnFire]

Whitlock is out of line and he needs to fall the f**k back!!

Attacking Whitlock and Hair won't help. To the extent that Hip Hop culture contributes to the me-first mindset, Whitlock is right. And Hair? Hey, I'd bet the overwhelming majority of white people who read that Whitlock column agree with it. Hair just has the guts to say so.

So the only reason I agreed with what Whitlock said is because of the color of MY skin?

Well shame on me.

Then again, how do you explain the color of Whitlock's skin?

And how do you explain the color of YOUR skin if you agree that "Whitlock is right."

Finally, how am I showing guts? Is it an act of bravery to think that I can talk to you guys about these types of issues without most of you going all crazy angry on my poor white ass?

Was I wrong to think that?

[HairOnFire]

But I'm not going to worry about offending someone when they clearly don't know what they are talking about, I mean Hair hands out verbal beat downs to people on this site on the regular when he feels they don't know what they are talking about, what's the difference, cause we are discussing race and socieo-economic issues, that's bs. I respect Hair, Whitlock not so much cause he should know better, but Hair I respect because he's being honest and open, you can't ask for more than that.

You haven't offended me, and if you think you've given me a verbal beat down I'm simply too stupid to have noticed. Just do me one favor as we go forward. Keep in mind that I'm not the guy popping off about minstrel shows and bojangling. Nor do I care a thing about hip hop culture. I'm just a football fan whose tired of watching a bunch of me-first players tear apart their own teams or showboat their way to riches.

In short, I'm interested in a debate about discipline, teamwork, professionalism, coachability, etc.

Skin color?

Not so much.

[HairOnFire]

Once that failsafe has been broken (good parenting), how could Whitlock NOT be correct in saying that media, and specifically hip-hop (since he is talking about African-Americans) culture does not effect the modern black-athlete? If the modern black-athlete shows a derth of unethical behaviour, and "strong-character parenting" is not available (which we so commonly hear about in black communities), then media influences such as hip hop, which shows a derth of unethical behaviour, is clearly/should be, a source/target of reasoning behind ethical shortcomings in the modern black-athlete. The modern black-athlete (and a very high percentage of them) obviously listen to hip hop (Reggie Wayne "making it rain" when he scores TDs last year, LJ doing his best 'ROC' impression, etc.).

Well said.

At least I think so.

Sadly, I'm not really qualified to say.

[damiancasey]

So I guess we all agree that Hip Hop is the reason we lost to the Patriots?

[The PatternMaster]

Let's just wraps this up cause I'm bout to go home, it's almost 5pm(yabba dabba doo). You don't know s**t about hip hop, we both agree on that, so for you to defend Whitlock's position that hip hop has something to do with whatever problem Whitlock has with certain players is just...well it just don't make much sense.

I've attempted to stay out of the so-called hip hop debate because I think it's missing the point, just as I feared would happen because of the incendiary language that Whitlock uses. Frankly, I think he's making a very valid point about teamwork, leadership, and professionalism that was bound to get lost in angry responses about bojangling and minstrel shows.

But like you've said, I'm in a poor position to defend attacks on black culture by other blacks. Far better for you to angrily ignore what Whitlock is saying, call him a moron, and imply that he's so incompetent he'd lose his job if his skin was white.

How's that for irony?

So spare me the history lesson on a style of music and dance that I care nothing about. Instead, explain to me why the lack of discipline and professionalism being demonstrated should be tolerated in a sport where success is determined by an individuals ability to suppress his own ego and play within a team concept?

Fair enough?

No worries mate...

I can see you don't care to know about hip hop so we can leave it out of the discussion as this is a football related issue and I don't know why Whitlock brought into the discussion in the first place, but...

Your asking me to explain why some players display a lack of discipline and professionalism, that is a complex issue. Some guys are just undiscipline and unprofessional, some of the problems start in high school the way athletes are treated as gods and as if they are above the law because they perform well on Fridays, and part of the problem has to do with the break down on the family unit and the lack of discipline being instilled in kids at an early age.