PFT's take on all this.

[HairOnFire]

The best wide out in the league and you want to trade him???? Who in the hell do you think is going to want to be traded to Cincy right now??? The team is unable to attract top notch freeagents let alone trade for a big name. Who wants to come live in Cincy when there are so many other nice cities to live in where it's warm year round? Hell they take pay cuts to go play for championship teams.

All valid points except the original one. Nobody wants to trade Chad anymore than Parcells wanted to trade Keyshawn, the Raiders wanted to trade Moss, the Patriots wanted to trade Branch, or the 49'ers or Eagles wanted to trade TO. Sometimes you make trades because bigger issues force the trade upon you.

Frankly, I think it's yet to be determined if Chad's behavior warrants his being traded, but it's not as inconceivable as so many of you pretend. More importantly, if forced to choose between Chad or Marvin Lewis I'm in favor of running Chad Johnson out of here without hesitation.

Finally, one of the most attractive things about trading for talent is you can add a draft pick who has no say in where he plays or buy the contract of a veteran player who wouldn't otherwise be caught dead walking the streets of Porkopolis.

[damiancasey]

OK I made it through a page and a half of these posts and had to stop.

To those of you that say "trade Chad", you must have lost your minds.

The best wide out in the league and you want to trade him???? Who in the hell do you think is going to want to be traded to Cincy right now??? The team is unable to attract top notch freeagents let alone trade for a big name. Who wants to come live in Cincy when there are so many other nice cities to live in where it's warm year round? Hell they take pay cuts to go play for championship teams.

On ESPN radio there was an analyst that said the Bengals have the money to go get Haynesworth to shore up the D.

Perfect reality check. You spelled out to great points:

1) Hello - he's arguably the best wide reciever in the league

2) More importantly - who in the hell are you going to trade him for???

I think a third issue is that he isn't the disruptive tornado that everyone is painting him to be!!! He's no Keyshawn and he's no T.O. Is he a bit of a distraction now? Yes, he's probably a bit of a distraction. Is he a baby? Yes. Is he single-handedly dismantling this team? I really doubt it. The Bengals have bigger issues than Chad.

[kingwilly]

The Bengals have bigger issues than Chad.

lather, rinse and repeat.

stop reading the ESPN and FOX Sports garbage. It is the Defense. It is the Defense. Keep your eye on the ball.

3 losses on the defense's/ST's shoulders, and it could have been 4. very easily (thank God for Kyle Boller)

[kingwilly]

The best wide out in the league and you want to trade him???? Who in the hell do you think is going to want to be traded to Cincy right now??? The team is unable to attract top notch freeagents let alone trade for a big name. Who wants to come live in Cincy when there are so many other nice cities to live in where it's warm year round? Hell they take pay cuts to go play for championship teams.

All valid points except the original one. Nobody wants to trade Chad anymore than Parcells wanted to trade Keyshawn, the Raiders wanted to trade Moss, the Patriots wanted to trade Branch, or the 49'ers or Eagles wanted to trade TO. Sometimes you make trades because bigger issues force the trade upon you.

Frankly, I think it's yet to be determined if Chad's behavior warrants his being traded, but it's not as inconceivable as so many of you pretend. More importantly, if forced to choose between Chad or Marvin Lewis I'm in favor of running Chad Johnson out of here without hesitation.

Finally, one of the most attractive things about trading for talent is you can add a draft pick who has no say in where he plays or buy the contract of a veteran player who wouldn't otherwise be caught dead walking the streets of Porkopolis.

HoF, as pure conjecture, it is fun to get embroiled in the "Trade Chad" discussions but it is just not going to happen. It should not happen either, as Chad is not what causes this team to display the following:

32nd in scoring Defense (32.2 point per game!!!!!!)

26th in Passing D (only 4 sacks????)

28th in Rushing D (7 runs over 20 yrds., 3 over 40!!!)

This is called the BOTTOM. It does not get owrse than this!!!!

...and it not Chad's fault.

Stop playing to the pandering media's hysterics.

It

is

the

Defense.

Seriously.

[HairOnFire]

Perfect reality check. You spelled out to great points:

1) Hello - he's arguably the best wide reciever in the league

2) More importantly - who in the hell are you going to trade him for???

I think a third issue is that he isn't the disruptive tornado that everyone is painting him to be!!! He's no Keyshawn and he's no T.O. Is he a bit of a distraction now? Yes, he's probably a bit of a distraction. Is he a baby? Yes. Is he single-handedly dismantling this team? I really doubt it. The Bengals have bigger issues than Chad.

1) Hello - Trading the best WR in the NFL should bring plenty in return.

2) See above. Any speculation now would be a waste of time but it's safe to say the Bengals wouldn't have to settle for a bag of magic beans.

3) Bigger issues? Fair enough, but you're rejecting the idea out of hand as if the team can only address one issue at a time, and only in descending order of importance. That's silly. Attack your problems on a broad front.

[Kazkal]

Double post

[Kazkal]

it just motivated the Browns

Could have swore the problem was our teams lack of motivation but hey let's target chad because he's the media favorite when we're doing good.

[damiancasey]

Perfect reality check. You spelled out to great points:

1) Hello - he's arguably the best wide reciever in the league

2) More importantly - who in the hell are you going to trade him for???

I think a third issue is that he isn't the disruptive tornado that everyone is painting him to be!!! He's no Keyshawn and he's no T.O. Is he a bit of a distraction now? Yes, he's probably a bit of a distraction. Is he a baby? Yes. Is he single-handedly dismantling this team? I really doubt it. The Bengals have bigger issues than Chad.

1) Hello - Trading the best WR in the NFL should bring plenty in return.

2) See above. Any speculation now would be a waste of time but it's safe to say the Bengals wouldn't have to settle for a bag of magic beans.

3) Bigger issues? Fair enough, but you're rejecting the idea out of hand as if the team can only address one issue at a time, and only in descending order of importance. That's silly. Attack your problems on a broad front.

1) Plenty of what in return? - do you have some inside information?

2) OK - if not beans (magic or otherwise) then what? - seriously, do you know something everyone else doesn't?

- all I'm saying is that getting rid of Chad leaves big talented shoes to fill and you're not going to fill them adequately by going on down to the "Wide Receivers-R-Us" superstore for the blue light special.

3) The team can address multiple issues but I'm rejecting it b/c chad isn't an issue

Again - is he a pain right now? Yes. Is it worth it to get rid of him? Not for level of pain he's causing right now - way to premature.

Moot point b/c it's not happening anyway.

[HairOnFire]

OK - if not beans (magic or otherwise) then what? - seriously, do you know something everyone else doesn't?

- all I'm saying is that getting rid of Chad leaves big talented shoes to fill and you're not going to fill them adequately by going on down to the "Wide Receivers-R-Us" superstore for the blue light special.

I've resisted speculation because it's entirely pointless, but also because trading Johnson is something the Bengals may feel they have to do, but don't want to do. Such trades aren't uncommon and are often undertaken without the normal motivation to get equal or better value. But c'mon now, you're acting like quality trade options simply wouldn't exist.

So prepare your worthless butts for some empty speculation, Hair styled.

Several weeks ago Miami was rumored to have dangled Chris Chambers. The reasons for Miami trading him are easy to understand. He wants more money than they're willing to pay and most important....they feel his services will continue being wasted for another couple of seasons because of the lack of talent at other offensive positions....including QB. That lack of talent has already resulted in Chambers scoring just 4 times last season compared to a combined 31 TD's in the previous 3 seasons. (More than Chad.) Both WR's are considered true #1 options, both are the same age, and each has the same amount of NFL experience. And just for fun, Chad's from Miami. Chambers is from Ohio. Who doesn't love a homecoming?

So there's one possible scenario right off the top of my flame shrouded head, and it's actually based upon a trade rumor that Miami later confirmed. What the actual trade might look like as anyones guess but it's possible, if not likely, the Bengals could net Chambers and a draft pick or another player thrown in as a sweetner. And if that deal didn't happen then move on to the dozens of other offers that would come if Chad was dangled. Swap wideout for wideout, wideout for draft picks, wideout for defensive help, or any combination that pleases you. But don't act like they wouldn't get something pretty sweet in return or that they couldn't find a pretty good wideout if they went offseason shopping for a replacement.

[HairOnFire]

Again - is he a pain right now? Yes. Is it worth it to get rid of him? Not for level of pain he's causing right now - way to premature.

Moot point b/c it's not happening anyway.

Probably true on all counts...judging from all of the quotes now being uttered by Lewis, Palmer, TJ, and Chad. It's almost like nothing happened. No player blowups...no coaches tirade.

"Hug it out." --- Ari Gold

[oldschooler]

anybody who is in favor of trading our best reciever in bengals history is an idiot

I'll tell you what, I'm really starting to think it might be possible. Chad goes AWOL during big games.

Everyone is bashing Chad, but giving Palmer a free pass, including Marvin.

The absolute "best" player on Offense struggled the last 3 games of 2006.

He`s the same player that throws the ball to Chad.

Carson Palmer the last 3 games of '06:

He completed 50% of his passes against the Colts, 52.5% against the Broncos, and 52.6% against the Stealers.

He threw 6 TD`s and 5 INTs the month of December. He also had 5 fumbles.

He had an average completion percentage of 56% for the month of December.

He had QB ratings of 69.9 against the Colts, 63.4 against the Broncos, and 91.0 against the Stealers.

He had a QB rating of 77.1 for the month of December.

This is the same QB that had an average of 66.9 completion percentage, had a QB rating of 109.2,

and threw 11 TD`s, 4 INTs and had 1 fumble in November.

When Carson was hot, Chad was hot. When Carson and the Offense struggled, Chad disappeared . . .

Carson Palmer in his last 2 games of '07:

He completed 62.8% of his passes against the Seahawks, threw 1 TD and 2 INT`s.

And had a QB rating of 75.9

He completed 60% of his passes against the Patriots, threw 1 TD and 2 INT`s.

And had a QB rating of 65.7

In 5 of the Bengals last 7 games, Palmer has thrown a total of 8 TD`s and 9 INT`s.

The Bengals have a 1-6 record in that span.

http://www.nfl.com/players/carsonpalmer/ga...amp;season=2006

Would you call Carson`s numbers in the last 3 games of 2006 "elite" ? Would you say he "disappeared" ?

Who you say he has had "elite QB" numbers the past 7 ganes ? Why isn`t he being bashed by fans ?

Having articles written about him "disappearing" ? Or having Marvin call him out ?

If the Bengals were winning people would be talking about Chad`s heart and desire.

I mean he is on pace for a 1980 yards on 112 receptions, with 12 touchdowns, season.

But since they`re losing, Chad is being bashed and people are acting like he is

the problem. He`s not. Accept it. Move on. I don`t think Carson is the problem either,

just so people know. I`m just pointing out the hypocrisy. Chad always gets bashed,

Carson hardly ever gets bashed.

[TJJackson]

....the Bengals wouldn't have to settle for a bag of magic beans.

Err....that bag of beans you mentioned....would you take Chris Perry for them? How about we throw in Frostee Rucker?

[TJJackson]

On ESPN radio there was an analyst that said the Bengals have the money to go get Haynesworth to shore up the D.

I heard that too, it was Peter King of SI who said that to Colin Cowherd on his radio program the day after the NE debacle.

They both agreed that Haynesworth was exactly the kind of high motor, high character leader the kitties need

err....did you say "high character"?

and you're talking about the fella referred to as "Stomp?

err....

uhhh.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2609563

[Bengals1]

On ESPN radio there was an analyst that said the Bengals have the money to go get Haynesworth to shore up the D.

I heard that too, it was Peter King of SI who said that to Colin Cowherd on his radio program the day after the NE debacle.

They both agreed that Haynesworth was exactly the kind of high motor, high character leader the kitties need

err....did you say "high character"?

and you're talking about the fella referred to as "Stomp?

err....

uhhh.....

I'm just repeating what Peter King said. Don't blame the messenger.....

[COB]

But since they`re losing, Chad is being bashed and people are acting like he is

the problem. He`s not. Accept it. Move on. I don`t think Carson is the problem either,

just so people know. I`m just pointing out the hypocrisy. Chad always gets bashed,

Carson hardly ever gets bashed.

It’s not Chad’s ability, his play, or his heart that I’m questioning. It’s his almost complete inability to subjugate his individual agenda for that of his team. It’s his inability to respect and accept counseling and direction.

Remember when, after the ’05 season, Marvin finally got through to Chad and he agreed to tone it down in ’06? Well what happened this year? Let’s look to Chad’s own words:

"I tried to change," he said. "I tried to be quiet. I tried not talking, playing what the outside world would call the humble role. This year, I'm going to play what the outside world would call the arrogant role. I call it confidence. Me being me, It's tough to walk the line between arrogance and humility. But I do back it up with my play, except for the last few weeks of the (2006) season.

"It's stupid to say. Some people aren't going to like it. But I set money aside (for fines). I did it in 2005. This is a year to entertain everyone around the world. Week 1, if I touch the end zone, you will laugh for a lifetime. Marvin might sit me down for the next game. But you will laugh." http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/o...307bengals.html

That’s it in a nutshell. When everyone on a team buries their personal agendas and works toward a common goal, incredible things can happen. The feeling players get from being part of something bigger than themselves is what makes team sports so rewarding. If you don’t believe me, go ask retired players what they miss the most about playing. They inevitably say “my teammates” or “the locker room.”

With Chad it continues to be about, in his own words, “me being me,” and trying to “entertain everyone around the world.”

Think Chad’s antics are harmless? That's not what great coaches think. When he coached him in the probowl, Tony Dungy said,

“Chad is a great receiver and he’s fun. He makes the game fun. I’m glad Marvin has to coach him and I don’t.”

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2226643

[HairOnFire]

If the Bengals were winning people would be talking about Chad`s heart and desire.

I mean he is on pace for a 1980 yards on 112 receptions, with 12 touchdowns, season.

>

Carson hardly ever gets bashed.

I'll argue that Chad isn't on pace for those numbers....since they're based upon a very small sample that reflects the madness that was the Brown game. In fact, I've recently pointed out that Palmer, a player who has played three fairly marginal games out of four, is on pace for a 40 TD/4600 yard season. So let's label that game as the statistical anomaly it very clearly was and just admit that without dramatic improvement we're looking at a Bengal offense that wll produce far more modest numbers. Not that those stats wouldn't be impressive, but until this team starts converting on 3rd down like it once did in 2005 I'm guessing they'll look better on the printed page than they would on the football field.

As for Chad being bashed, the criticism directed his way didn't begin overnight or simply as a result of the Bengals recent struggles. No, it's been steadily growing...starting locally and now spilling over into the national press.

[HairOnFire]

Yup.

"Week 1, if I touch the end zone, you will laugh for a lifetime. Marvin might sit me down for the next game. But you will laugh." ---Chad Johnson

Anyone who reads the above and then claims there isn't a serious problem is kidding himself.

[oldschooler]

But since they`re losing, Chad is being bashed and people are acting like he is

the problem. He`s not. Accept it. Move on. I don`t think Carson is the problem either,

just so people know. I`m just pointing out the hypocrisy. Chad always gets bashed,

Carson hardly ever gets bashed.

It’s not Chad’s ability, his play, or his heart that I’m questioning. It’s his almost complete inability to subjugate his individual agenda for that of his team. It’s his inability to respect and accept counseling and direction.

Remember when, after the ’05 season, Marvin finally got through to Chad and he agreed to tone it down in ’06? Well what happened this year? Let’s look to Chad’s own words:

"I tried to change," he said. "I tried to be quiet. I tried not talking, playing what the outside world would call the humble role. This year, I'm going to play what the outside world would call the arrogant role. I call it confidence. Me being me, It's tough to walk the line between arrogance and humility. But I do back it up with my play, except for the last few weeks of the (2006) season.

"It's stupid to say. Some people aren't going to like it. But I set money aside (for fines). I did it in 2005. This is a year to entertain everyone around the world. Week 1, if I touch the end zone, you will laugh for a lifetime. Marvin might sit me down for the next game. But you will laugh." http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/o...307bengals.html

That’s it in a nutshell. When everyone on a team buries their personal agendas and works toward a common goal, incredible things can happen. The feeling players get from being part of something bigger than themselves is what makes team sports so rewarding. If you don’t believe me, go ask retired players what they miss the most about playing. They inevitably say “my teammates” or “the locker room.”

With Chad it continues to be about, in his own words, “me being me,” and trying to “entertain everyone around the world.”

Think Chad’s antics are harmless? That's not what great coaches think. When he coached him in the probowl, Tony Dungy said,

“Chad is a great receiver and he’s fun. He makes the game fun. I’m glad Marvin has to coach him and I don’t.”

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2226643

Has Chad been fined ? Has he cost the team penalty

yards for celebrating ?

When the Bengals win, Chad`s an "entertainer".

When the Bengals lose, he`s a "distraction".

I agree that Chad needs to find a new schtick.

He has already made a name for himself.

And his play speaks louder than he ever could.

It always has.

But people are talking about trading him, bashing on him,

for what ? He produces like no other Bengals WR ever has,

he goes to Pro Bowls, he doesn`t get arrested, he doesn`t

fail drug test, he helps Joseph and Hall after practices

to become better players.

And I`m sure Tony Dungy would hate to coach Chad.

Probably to the point that he would cut if he was on his team . . .

[damiancasey]

If the Bengals were winning people would be talking about Chad`s heart and desire.

I mean he is on pace for a 1980 yards on 112 receptions, with 12 touchdowns, season.

>

Carson hardly ever gets bashed.

I'll argue that Chad isn't on pace for those numbers....since they're based upon a very small sample that reflects the madness that was the Brown game. In fact, I've recently pointed out that Palmer, a player who has played three fairly marginal games out of four, is on pace for a 40 TD/4600 yard season. So let's label that game as the statistical anomaly it very clearly was and just admit that without dramatic improvement we're looking at a Bengal offense that wll produce far more modest numbers. Not that those stats wouldn't be impressive, but until this team starts converting on 3rd down like it once did in 2005 I'm guessing they'll look better on the printed page than they would on the football field.

As for Chad being bashed, the criticism directed his way didn't begin overnight or simply as a result of the Bengals recent struggles. No, it's been steadily growing...starting locally and now spilling over into the national press.

You can't label the game a statistical anomaly. If anything all you can say is that during any given game the Bengals could have as much offense as in the Browns game or as little as during the Pats - Ravens - Seattle game (not sure which was least). That is, of course, assuming that nothing changes and the rest of our schedule is approximately represented by the first 4 games. I think this passes the smell test with Bengals history of inconsistent play.

The wild card here is how much turmoil the team is in right now - we could get worse (not sure how - no whammies) or we could improve slightly (probably reasonable to assume) or we could get significantly better (wouldn't bet on it).

[HairOnFire]

And I`m sure Tony Dungy would hate to coach Chad.

Probably to the point that he would cut if he was on his team . . .

That's some sweet sarcasm right there. Sadly, it misses the point completely. That being, Tony Dungy is probably thanking his lucky star each night for Marvin Harrison, an elite WR whose outstanding character is a perfect example of old school professionalism.

[HairOnFire]

You can't label the game a statistical anomaly.

Sure I can. In fact, I'll argue that any game that approaches or sets numerous statistical records that have stood for 4 decades or more is a statisical anomaly for both teams involved.