Marvin to hold press conference at 3pm

[CarsonCity]

I would say the problem seems to be is that the media thinks they are smarter or on the same level of football knowledge as the coaches and there not. Most of these guys haven't played a down of football in their life. Once you get media types who think that they know more than the coaches and you have coaches who don't like giving press conferences you get what we currently have now , at least it's entertaining for the fans.

Yep, I think you hit the nail on the head. Some media types (like LM) are downright offended by their perceived arrogance from Marvin. But the fact that they think they actually know as much (or maybe even more?) about football than a HC in the NFL is downright absurd.

If I ask a rocket scientist why his space shuttle didn't work, and he told me, "You wouldn't understand," I doubt I'd throw a hissy fit like Lance. Especially since it doesn't matter if said rocket scientist explains one damn thing to me or not.

[membengal]

But I would expect the rocket scientist to understand the need for my question, and explain it in a way that makes me believe that HE/SHE understands why it didn't work and that it will be addressed so it works in the future.

I don't understand why some of you think that is asking too much of ML...

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Yep, I think you hit the nail on the head. Some media types (like LM) are downright offended by their perceived arrogance from Marvin. But the fact that they think they actually know as much (or maybe even more?) about football than a HC in the NFL is downright absurd.

If I ask a rocket scientist why his space shuttle didn't work, and he told me, "You wouldn't understand," I doubt I'd throw a hissy fit like Lance. Especially since it doesn't matter if said rocket scientist explains one damn thing to me or not.

Well, when Congress asked NASA (ie, rocket scientists) why Challenger blew up, you can bet they came up with some better answers than that. 'You wouldn't understand' is always a crutch and usually translates into 'I don't want to tell you.' In this case, I imagine the reason is because telling what happened would be a trifle embarassing.

There are layman's terms for what happened. If Justin Smith is to be believed, it's because the team didn't know their assignments. I don't need to know the exact schemes to know that's not a good thing. I also don't need to have ever played organized football to know that Derek Anderson shouldn't throw 5 TDs on your D, nor should Jamal Lewis run for 8 YPC. In fact, I can be a total, unathletic dork (that's not hypothetical) and recognize that the QB pressure in week 1 worked a helluvalot better than giving a chump QB all day to throw in week 2.

Not to mention which, we're talking about football here, a game played for the most part by guys who wouldn't get into DeVry if they weren't athletes, so I'm guessing I can follow the explanation. Additionally, Chuck's 'scheme' (if you can call it that) wasn't exactly complicated. As Justin said, they stripped the game plan down to base coverage. Gee, and you wonder why we got shredded? That's the same crap they did last year that didn't work.

So I'm not satisfied with 'you wouldn't understand,' Marvin. Try me. I'll let you know if it gets too complicated. I'm betting it doesn't.

[CarsonCity]

Asking too much from Marvin? Probably not. But he's very taciturn when it comes to dealing with the media - always has been and probably always will be. Some people think he owes the fans explanations, some think he simply owes us a winning product - which they have been since he took over. I know it can be frustrating for some fans/media types when he doesn't want to explain things (or gives his standard answers), but that's just the way he is, and personally, I don't think it's that big of a deal.

So I'm not satisfied with 'you wouldn't understand,' Marvin. Try me. I'll let you know if it gets too complicated. I'm betting it doesn't.

But that's just it. If he were to get into specifics about why a certain play doesn't work, he would only be giving out information to opposing teams as well. "Justin Smith tends to be a little slow on twists", "Our safety blitz can easily be picked up becacuse Dexter has been favoring his right side", "Our cornerbacks are easily fooled by post-corners" etc. etc. I realize these are pretty elementary hypotheticals, but giving out any information about how your defense got beat (aka how to do it in the future) would only serve to hinder his main goal of HC - winning football games, not explanations about why they didn't.

[B24]

I love it how some people actually think Marvin is going to open up to the media after not doing so since he's been here. I don't really care what he says to the media. I was kinda hoping to hear more, but didn't expect it.

[mgilgris]

Not replying to the media is fine, but at some point someone has got to own up to the defense being ranked last for the past couple years. His actions (changes, ) at some point must speak louder than words.

While Marvin may not owe us or the media anything, he should be accountable. Brushing off the questions and really making no movements have not been accountable.

[bengalsfansince68]

Marvin replying in that manner tells me his people skills are not as good as I once thought. If he says that it would be almost impossible for him to explain it in a press conference... no problem, but telling the man he is not smart enough to understand it, is condescending. Press conferences are for the fans as much as the media. When he says to Lance that you wouldn't understand, he says it to every fan of football.

Apparently Lance was offended as am I.

Hey Marv, I'm getting a little pissed here!!!

[HoosierCat]

In Marvin's defense, on da site, he does point to five plays that he thinks (collectively) cost them the game.

1. Palmer's first pick.

2. Rudi's fumble.

3. Caleb dropping the easy pick.

4. & 5. 2 TD passes by Anderson on 3rd down.

[BengalByTheBay]

Not replying to the media is fine, but at some point someone has got to own up to the defense being ranked last for the past couple years. His actions (changes, ) at some point must speak louder than words.

While Marvin may not owe us or the media anything, he should be accountable. Brushing off the questions and really making no movements have not been accountable.

Agree - performance is far more important than anything said at a press conference.

[BengalByTheBay]

When he says to Lance that you wouldn't understand, he says it to every fan of football.

Apparently Lance was offended as am I.

Hey Marv, I'm getting a little pissed here!!!

Why? You don't think that HC's get pissed at the local media people they see every time and try to get in digs at them? I do. Everybody's favorite, Parcells did that all the time. I don't think it has anything to do with what he's saying to every fan of football. I think he's trying to say as little of any substance as possible. Happens all the time.

[bengalsfansince68]

All of us Bee-head fans want answers to Lance's questions, so yes, he told us all that we would not understand.

I have defended Marv throughout his tenure, but I want to know how he can laugh off one of the worst defensive performances of my lifetime. I am getting pissed Marv, dammit!!

[HairOnFire]

There are layman's terms for what happened. If Justin Smith is to be believed, it's because the team didn't know their assignments. I don't need to know the exact schemes to know that's not a good thing.

But Smith's quotes were most enlightening because his remarks about a scaled down base defense prove that the aggressive pass rush had been watered down, or negated entirely, sometime around last Tuesday....long before the first missed tackle or blown assignment. Worse, Bresnihan was just quoted saying that even after watching film of a 50+ point meltdown he would have changed only one play call.

That's madness.

Bengal fans have seen this before, right? So often in fact that we've debated whether the level of aggression can be turned on....or off...like hitting a light switch. Bottom line? Yeah, it can be. So I don't think it's out of line to ask why the coaches of this defense choose so often to willingly put away it's knives as a matter of strategy.

[mgilgris]

Apparently it made Doc a little mad as well:

This was on the enquirer.com

Doc: Give media, fans some credit

BY PAUL DAUGHERTY | PDAUGHERTY@ENQUIRER.COM

For five years, Marvin Lewis has been the beneficiary of fawning local media, yours truly included. A 12-year Bengals beatdown before Lewis arrived made those of us who survived it grateful for small favors, such as the miracle of 8-8. This ain’t New York or Philly. Marvin’s had it easy around here.

For that, we get this, on Monday:

“I tell (players) all the time, ‘Don’t try to explain it to (media), because (media) won’t understand it’,” Lewis said.

No, probably not. Football is a game for scholars. Here’s something else that escaped the stupid media’s grasp, and maybe yours, too:

How a guy with three career starts at quarterback could tear up the Bengals defense for three and a half quarters. How a Cleveland team a few bad plays from Three Mile Island could drop a 51-45 embarrassment on Marvin’s Bengals. And why, week after year, we try to make sense of the lame and the obvious:

“We just have to play better” is frequently paired with “We just have to keep playing” and is often followed by “we’re going to move forward.”

Those answers might insult the media’s intelligence. If we had any.

Look: I like Lewis as much as anyone. He’s done a good job here. Given the organization for which he works, he’s done a very good job. But treating the fawning media like a footwipe isn’t necessary, OK?

Some coaches play the media like a Gibson Les Paul. (See: Kelly, Brian.) Some coaches use their media sessions like couch trips. (See: Huggins, Bob, and Piniella, Lou.) Some use them to send messages to their players. Jack McKeon did that. Marvin Lewis considers dealing with the media en masse a waste of time, like trying to teach Spanish to an English muffin.

Fair enough. But dealing with us dull-normal media dopes is part of the job description. Why not make the best of it?

I wanted to know Monday what is the biggest reason players make mental errors. An OK inquiry, from an idiot media guy, if only because we’ve heard about mental errors since, well, since the Bengals lost the ’88 Super Bowl. It seems to me that people making mental errors might, at some point, learn to make fewer of them or, at some other point, get canned, so that the incredibly complicated game of football might proceed with fewer mental errors.

But what do I know?

Lewis answered my inane question by saying his players stopped doing their own jobs and started freelancing. Actually, he said, they were attempting to “invent and create a revision. We’re trying to overcome someone else’s deficiencies.” The key, the coach said, was to “not try and deviate to try and compensate.”

I took my thick self to John Thornton, armed with the same bad question.

“Mental errors come in when people get rattled and forget what they’ve learned. When games get tough, you need the ability to settle down,” the Bengals defensive tackle said. “All we had to do Sunday was settle down, instead of worrying about what just happened. I mean, who cares? We still had a chance. A lot of people just sort of lost it mentally.”

Same question, Bryan Robinson:

“You should know where you need to be,” said Robinson. “It’s pretty simple. You have a gap, you stay in your gap. You don’t do another guy’s job. They say there is no bad call, just bad execution. Yesterday, that was true.”

There you have it. What it came down to Sunday was not a bad game plan or calling the wrong defense or Fire Chuck Bresnahan. It was players who allowed the heretofore lousy Cleveland offense to beat them and rattle them and cause them to do things they shouldn’t do. Play properly the defense that’s called, and Derek Anderson doesn’t mess with you like you’re a third-teamer.

That’s my take. Believe what you want. I really don’t understand much.

[HairOnFire]

I'm screaming for answers as loudly as the next guy but I've got to admit that everytime I read a Paul Daugherty article I wonder how he still has a job. Oh, and anyone who doesn't think Lance McAllister is a card-carrying douche simply isn't paying attention. Chick Ludwig? Wasn't he they guy who critcized the Bengals for not deliberatly injuring a few Steeler players in retalitation for Palmer's injury? Or how about the national media? Who thinks they've been fair in regards to the way the Bengals have been portrayed recently? Remember the way the media deliberately distorted Lewis's point about all NFL players being "profiled" simply due to their celebrity status? If I recall correctly by the time that storm had died down Lewis had to apologize for telling the truth.

Maybe Marvin is right.

Still, I'm not asking for details. Just tell me in big broad strokes why the Bengals love vanilla so much?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

But Smith's quotes were most enlightening because his remarks about a scaled down base defense prove that the aggressive pass rush had been watered down, or negated entirely, sometime around last Tuesday....long before the first missed tackle or blown assignment.

Oh I definitely caught that, and would *love* to have been there to hear just how Justin was saying it - is the team of the opinion that the base schemes are holding them back? Do they lack faith in the plays being called?

Worse, Bresnihan was just quoted saying that even after watching film of a 50+ point meltdown he would have changed only one play call. That's madness.

That I missed...which, while stunning, is totally in line with the Indy game last year. You recall, the one where Indy was marching down the field every possession, but there was Chuck telling the D if they'd just stick with the scheme, it'll work...no it won't Chuck!

Bengal fans have seen this before, right? So often in fact that we've debated whether the level of aggression can be turned on....or off...like hitting a light switch. Bottom line? Yeah, it can be. So I don't think it's out of line to ask why the coaches of this defense choose so often to willingly put away it's knives as a matter of strategy.

That's a good way of putting it. The only good thing is that Chuck unwittingly devised a good scientific experiment. Same personell, one game with a hyper-agressive D, one with a passive, 'sit around until something happens' D. Results were night and day. Now I'd have thought the result last week was enough to convince them that such a game plan was a great idea, but apparently not. Is this enough? Sadly, I doubt it.

The other thing this game settled was the eternal 'is it the players or the scheme?' debate. I think we'll all agree even the players on this D are good enough to hold one of the worst offenses in the NFL to....say...40 points under any circumstances. At that point, it's either down to the scheme or the coaching. Either way, these coaches aren't getting it done.

Riddle me this, Batman - why would the team be screwing up assignments on the *base defense* - which is about all they ran - past the first week of the preseason? That's coaching.

[CarsonCity]

Same personell, one game with a hyper-agressive D, one with a passive, 'sit around until something happens' D. Results were night and day. Now I'd have thought the result last week was enough to convince them that such a game plan was a great idea, but apparently not. Is this enough? Sadly, I doubt it.

I know I've said this a few times in other threads, but they did blitz. Actually, if you're like me and trust Josh Kirkendall's count over at cincyjungle.com, they blitzed almost as often as they did against Baltimore. Last Monday he counted 16 blitzes on pass attempts. This past Sunday: 14 blitzes. The night and day we're seeing between the two games is how effective those blitzes were. Just about every blitz was picked up against the Browns, and Anderson was able to have a field day against man-on-man coverage. His QB rating when the Bengals blitzed? 142.3. It seems to me the Browns coaching staff did a great job in preparing their offense for the Bengals' blitz packages, and it helped that Ahmad Brooks was out nearly the entire game.

If we're going to fault Bresnahan, then it's for not coming up with more creative or perhaps less predictable blitzes - not for sitting around until something happens.

[HoosierCat]

Just tell me in big broad strokes why the Bengals love vanilla so much?

Because Chuck and Marvin are convinced that vanilla will work. How else to explain Marvin's indulgence in every fan's favorite game, "if only."

If only we hadn't turned the ball over (but you did).

If only Caleb had caught that ball (but he didn't).

If only Anderson hadn't thrown 2 TDs on third down (but he did).

In their minds, yesterday the "vanilla" D came thisclose to working. Thus we get all the talk about lack of execution and mental errors and inventing things -- all example of players (again, in Chuck & Marvin's view) defeating the scheme (which was thisclose to working!) through lack of discipline or flawed technique.

I think they unsheathed the knives on opening night because they were playing Baltimore. The vanilla D means teams are going to score -- even if Marvin got all his "if onlys" Cleveland still would have had 22 or so points -- and they were afraid Baltimore's D would be too much for a banged up offense in its first game to overcome. So the D needed to go all-out, create pressure and turnovers...and as it turned out, they were right. And they were also right in suspecting that the Cleveland defense would be no impediment to putting up a boatload of points. Thus the passive, vanilla, prevent-esque D.

Which would have worked. They were thisclose. I don't expect them to change, unfortunately.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I already have it in my head:

"We have to fix some things and get better"

"That's our business"

"We have to play 4 quarters every week"

"I'm giving the guys an extra day off this week, the have boo-boo's to take care of"

....add other Marvinesque, generic cliches as needed....

This s**t is wearin' thin with me.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Lance is ripping Marvin a new one. He says as bad as yesterday was, Marvin's actually made things worse due to his press conference. You can tell he's really ticked that Marvin told them, "You won't understand it." when referring to the why and how of yesterday's defense.

strap in boys it's going to be a rough one..but winning is the best perfume.

I just checked the shelf, and we're fresh outta that fragrance. We are well stocked with "Luscious Loser" though. Would you like to purchase an over priced bottle?

[BengalsNYC]

Lance is ripping Marvin a new one. He says as bad as yesterday was, Marvin's actually made things worse due to his press conference. You can tell he's really ticked that Marvin told them, "You won't understand it." when referring to the why and how of yesterday's defense.

How did Marvin make things worse? Do yourself a favor and go to bengals.com and watch the press conference yourself. If you had to answer questions from Chick Ludwig all the time you would probably give one word answers too. Chick's comments are horrible and I cracked up when Chick tried to offer and explanation for why STs had broken down. Marvin deadpanned "Your elementary assessment is off-base" Great stuff. The one guy I like hearing questions from is Johannsen, they are well thought out and articulated questions. Marvin may or may not choose to answer them but at least he doesn't pretend to know everything and use buzzwords like "gap" "read" and "fit" like Chick.

The media apparently wants all their articles written for them with quotes from Marvin about what exactly went wrong and why. No one was asking the questions about the defense last week. Yes, we turned them over six times but they did move the ball against us.

I never expected Marvin to offer any sort of real breakdown of the game, what good does it do? The only people that NEED to know and UNDERSTAND what went wrong are in the locker room. Get it fixed and let's get a win next week.

[cincyhokie]

BengalsNYC,

I just got to NYC in January. I'm looking for a consistent sunday bar to see the games. Do you know of any good ones? Thanks in advance.

[coupdayta]

Maybe I'm stupid, I don't know. But look, they say football is like chess. You have to know what your opponent is doing and adjust your strategy to counter it. The way I see the Bengals and Bresnahan is that they are not adjusting not ever. If I played chess the way Bresnahan called plays, I would use only my pawns every time.

"Just do your job pawns! If you do your job, we'll win!"

"Do your job" doesn't make sense unless you're running a complete Cover 2 defense that plays to the natural strengths and instincts of its players. "Do your job" in a drop zone means you give a couple yard cushion every single play to the receivers and backs. I personally think the schemes Bresnahan calls hamper the natural instincts of the Bengals defense. Yes, there were some very bad missed tackles on Sunday. But given our talent, or at least the talent I believe the defense has, I don't think we're a 51 point team.

Here's another simple analogy.

If you're getting punched in the face repeatedly, what do you do?

Do something, anything different that makes you not get punched in the face anymore.

If you're getting scored on on every drive, what do you do?

Do something, anything different that makes you not get scored on anymore.

Not adjusting the gaps, or the assignments, or anything when you're getting rolled over is madness. Bresnahan's apparent refusal to do ANYTHING to help the Bengals win makes me question his competence. The best generals don't keep sacrificing their troops because of some sort of weird sense of pride about their tactics. They adjust their tactics to use their force as effectively as possible, no matter how different that adjustment might be from the original plans of battle.

[BengalsNYC]

BengalsNYC,

I just got to NYC in January. I'm looking for a consistent sunday bar to see the games. Do you know of any good ones? Thanks in advance.

Hokie,

I haven't personally been but the place seems to be hands down, Phebe's Tavern

Phebe's Tavern

I live in Astoria, so my first year out here I went to local sports bars and watched on a small screen. Phebe's is dedicated to Bengals.

I now am a Sunday Ticket Superfan, so my couch is my sports bar. Love it.

[HairOnFire]

I know I've said this a few times in other threads, but they did blitz. Actually, if you're like me and trust Josh Kirkendall's count over at cincyjungle.com, they blitzed almost as often as they did against Baltimore. Last Monday he counted 16 blitzes on pass attempts. This past Sunday: 14 blitzes. The night and day we're seeing between the two games is how effective those blitzes were. Just about every blitz was picked up against the Browns, and Anderson was able to have a field day against man-on-man coverage. His QB rating when the Bengals blitzed? 142.3. It seems to me the Browns coaching staff did a great job in preparing their offense for the Bengals' blitz packages, and it helped that Ahmad Brooks was out nearly the entire game.

If we're going to fault Bresnahan, then it's for not coming up with more creative or perhaps less predictable blitzes - not for sitting around until something happens.

I don't have a problem with any of the above. In fact, I agree with it....especially the part about Brooks being sorely missed. But I think you'd have to study the differences in regards to where the blitzes were coming from, what gaps were being attatcked, and the very type of blitz being attempted. For example, how many where low risk bltzes from the MLB position? How many were high risk edge blitzes featuring safeties and corners? How many were overload blitzes...with multiple players crashing through the same gap....presumably after a DE has established outside containment? How many times did the Bengals blitz from both flanks as opposed to just one? How close to the action was help if a blitz broke down?

Despite the comparable total numbers I thought it was pretty easy to see that the pass rush heat had been turned down several notches, as Justin Smith later confirmed. That's pretty hard to ignore, ehh? And if you read the comments made in real time during the game thread you'll stumble across numerous examples where other posters came to the same conclusions, and those comments started very early in the game. I'm also reminded of many of the pictures from the Raven game showing a fallen Steve McNair surrounded by Bengal lineman, safeties, and linebackers.....all signs of a jailbreak.

Last, during the pregame for tonights Eagle/Redskin game it was noted that Philadelphia coaches had made attacking the inexperienced Redskin QB the highest priority, and sure enough....two and a half minutes into the very first drive Ron Jaworski began commenting on the exotic quality of Eagles blitz packages. As if on cue the Eagles come with a weakside overload blitz, which the Redskin QB manages to beat, but he gets hit hard as he throws. Kornheiser quickly responds..."Exotic? Like from a foreign country?"

[HairOnFire]

Lance is ripping Marvin a new one. He says as bad as yesterday was, Marvin's actually made things worse due to his press conference. You can tell he's really ticked that Marvin told them, "You won't understand it." when referring to the why and how of yesterday's defense.

Chick's comments are horrible and I cracked up when Chick tried to offer and explanation for why STs had broken down. Marvin deadpanned "Your elementary assessment is off-base" Great stuff.

It wasn't as sarcastic, but my personal favorite was Marvin's refusal to take Paul Daugherty's bait regarding Bill Cowher' claim that Lewis condones Chad's antics. Lewis responded by saying that Daugherty knew better, then wondered aloud why he would ask the question when he already knew the truth, before finally stating that it was unfortunate that Cowher's new job put him in a position to create controversy. Left unsaid is the obvious fact that Cowher now benefits directly from any controversy he manages to create.

Frankly, there's something disturbingly familiar about Paul Daugherty trying to stir the pot...or if you prefer, throw gas on the slightest spark.