Bengals defense vs. Colts defense

[Spor_tees]

Watching the game last night I just couldn't understand why or how the Colts defense was able to stop the highpowered Saints offense. The Colts had lost both starting corners, their starting middle LB, and were missing their run stopping NT, YET they held everyone of the Saints superstars in check. Craziest of all, they play the same scheme that Chuckie B. wants the Bengals to play. Tony Dungy was hired as the Head Coach of the Colts after being the Head Coach of Tampa where he made the Tampa-2 defense come to life both as a head coach and defensive coordinator. He brought that scheme to the Colts and though it took a couple years for it to take, now it seems like no matter who they plug in, it works, FOR THEM. So why did it work for the Colts, yet the Bengals defense is so bad at it? I can't understand it, because if you look at the rosters, I can only see 3 guys that the Colts defensive roster has an edge over the Bengals. Dwight Freeney, despite being semi-weak against the run, gets my edge over Justin simply because of sack totals. Mathis gets my edge over Geathers, and Bob Sanders gets the edge over Dexter. Other than those three guys, the Bengals match up pretty well if not better at all other 8 positions.

So, why is it the Bengals look like they are lost in space in this defense and the Colts with a bunch of new guys, over the hill guys, back ups can do what they do? I have my idea, and it has been said quite a few times already, yet no one likes to hear it. Either Marvin needs to become more involved in the defense like Dungy is in Indy, or maybe he just doesn't have anything to give to the defense, and instead makes up excuses as to why he thinks he shouldn't become involved. He has said in the past that he doesn't think it would be good for the team because he wants to give his focus to all parts of the team and if he gives extra attention to the defense, it could hurt the rest of the team. Well Dungy does it, and it looks like the rest of the team has been doing fine. I'm really starting to think Marvin isn't the defensive guru he has been made to be. He just simply was in the right place at the right time. He was in Baltimore when they had some great players including who some think might be the best LB of all time in Ray Lewis. Chuckie B. has now become a scape goat for Marvin, if the defense continues to fail, it is Chuckie's fault and not Marvin's. I'll now sit back and wait to hear the excuses fly in about injuries, suspensions, ect. as to why the defense hasn't improved, but I'll point out like I have before, other teams that are playoff perennials, like the Pats and Colts, don't use injuries as excuses, they plug in back ups and still make the playoffs. I have also shown that some of the best defenses in the league have a similar make-up to the Bengals defensive roster as far as draft round selection. In fact, in a couple of cases, the Bengals have more higher round draft choices starting on defense than some of the top defensive squads. So I ask again, why? Why can't the Bengals defense improve?

[Stripes]

What the Colts were able to do defensively against the Saints is nothing new, and the Bengals have done it before in recent seasons. When the back seven execute the coverage schemes properly and the defensive line gets consistent pressure, you see the same results. I don't expect the Colts defense to play nearly that well over the course of the full season, though they ought to be better than last year.

It's those key players you mentioned that have made the difference for the Colts (especially Bob Sanders). The Bengals had them too once -- Odell Thurman and David Pollack. Losing those two really stunted their growth as a defense. I don't understand, however, why so many people keep claiming that defense isn't improving at all. It shows in the run defense and scoring defense statistics. The pass defense has gotten worse without anyone filling the joker role, but Joseph, Hall, and Geathers will all contribute to changing that in due time.

BTW, I'm sure nobody's calling Dungy's defense "wimpy".

[skyline]

You know, it's funny, but it almost seems as if it all comes down to Bob Sanders.

He was out nearly all of last season, and their defense was terrible. Everyone said that's what would keep them from winning the Super Bowl. Sanders comes back for the playoffs, and BAM. Solid defense, which doesn't seem to be letting up this season.

I'd typically never say one person could make such a big difference, but what else could it be? It's not as if they changed their defensive philoshopy sometime between their last regular season game last season and their first playoff game, right? They simply weren't executing, and then all of the sudden they were. Very strange, indeed.

Maybe there's something to what Marvin and Chuck said all of last year. We need to tackle better and be in the right spots at the right time...

[BengalszoneBilly]

Why does THEIRS work?

Uh, because the guy running it isn't named "Bresnahan?" I'm going to go with that. Why Marvin Lewis chose this guy to (allegedly) coordinate his defense is beyond me. A blunder beyond comprehension.

[The PatternMaster]

You know, it's funny, but it almost seems as if it all comes down to Bob Sanders.

He was out nearly all of last season, and their defense was terrible. Everyone said that's what would keep them from winning the Super Bowl. Sanders comes back for the playoffs, and BAM. Solid defense, which doesn't seem to be letting up this season.

I'd typically never say one person could make such a big difference, but what else could it be? It's not as if they changed their defensive philoshopy sometime between their last regular season game last season and their first playoff game, right? They simply weren't executing, and then all of the sudden they were. Very strange, indeed.

Maybe there's something to what Marvin and Chuck said all of last year. We need to tackle better and be in the right spots at the right time...

Sanders brings an attitude to the secondary that makes them play with more passion and intensity, on defense attitude is EVERYTHING. Sanders is also a sure tackler who makes plays, D Jax is kinda like Sanders but not as a consistant of a playmaker(see the wiff on the qb for the safety last year).

But I think our lb's have to do a better job of clamping down on guys who come into their zone area and the secondary has to do a better job of tackling. In the Colts defense the secondary makes alot of tackles, but they are very sure tacklers and they all get to the ball very quickly, our secondary not so much.

Based on the pass success that both Marvin and Chuck have had in the NFL as defensive coaches I refuse to believe that they are clueless when it comes to designing and implenting a successful defense. When Marvin was forced to coach from the press box he sitting between Chuck and Hunley, if there were major flaws to the scheme I would hope they would have identified them and corrected by now, right .

[gobengals19]

You know, it's funny, but it almost seems as if it all comes down to Bob Sanders.

He was out nearly all of last season, and their defense was terrible. Everyone said that's what would keep them from winning the Super Bowl. Sanders comes back for the playoffs, and BAM. Solid defense, which doesn't seem to be letting up this season.

I'd typically never say one person could make such a big difference, but what else could it be? It's not as if they changed their defensive philoshopy sometime between their last regular season game last season and their first playoff game, right? They simply weren't executing, and then all of the sudden they were. Very strange, indeed.

Maybe there's something to what Marvin and Chuck said all of last year. We need to tackle better and be in the right spots at the right time...

I would agree that Sanders is a huge key to their DEF. But what stuck out to me last night and in the Colt's playoff run was the way their DEF flew to the ball and tackled. They are some of the most fundamental tacklers in the NFL, something we have been missing for years [and continue to struggle with].

I also think they mix up their DEF better than we do. This allows them to confuse and ultimately getter better pressure on the QB.

I have no idea why we have our 1st Rd Corners play 10+ yds off the line of scrimmage. Why bother drafting these skilled CBs if we arent going to let them do their job. Its too difficult to adjust when you are already walking backwards as the play begins.

[BengalszoneBilly]

When Marvin was forced to coach from the press box he sitting between Chuck and Hunley, if there were major flaws to the scheme I would hope they would have identified them and corrected by know, right .

So you're implying he would have been up there slapping Chuck and Hunley like Larry slapped Curley and Moe? Wish I coulda seen that rather than the game...

[HoosierCat]

The thing that jumped out at me last night was NO's poor run-blocking. Deuce and Bush seemed to get tackled either at the line or behind it an awful lot. And when they tried to swing it outside, some Colt always seemed to be able to cut in between the RB and his blockers and trip him up.

And not to take away anything from the Colts' D, but lord did Brees make some dumb throws. Both his picks were WTF? tosses. The first I don't think there was a NO WR within 15 yards and the second was a horribly underthrown ball.

Colts D played well last night but NO's offense also didn't look ready for primetime yet.

[skyline]

The thing that jumped out at me last night was NO's poor run-blocking. Deuce and Bush seemed to get tackled either at the line or behind it an awful lot. And when they tried to swing it outside, some Colt always seemed to be able to cut in between the RB and his blockers and trip him up.

And not to take away anything from the Colts' D, but lord did Brees make some dumb throws. Both his picks were WTF? tosses. The first I don't think there was a NO WR within 15 yards and the second was a horribly underthrown ball.

Colts D played well last night but NO's offense also didn't look ready for primetime yet.

On that note, everyone feel a little bit of pity for me...I drafted Brees in 2 of my 4 fantasy leagues

[HoosierCat]

The thing that jumped out at me last night was NO's poor run-blocking. Deuce and Bush seemed to get tackled either at the line or behind it an awful lot. And when they tried to swing it outside, some Colt always seemed to be able to cut in between the RB and his blockers and trip him up.

And not to take away anything from the Colts' D, but lord did Brees make some dumb throws. Both his picks were WTF? tosses. The first I don't think there was a NO WR within 15 yards and the second was a horribly underthrown ball.

Colts D played well last night but NO's offense also didn't look ready for primetime yet.

On that note, everyone feel a little bit of pity for me...I drafted Brees in 2 of my 4 fantasy leagues

Doh!

[cincy9275]

the thing that get me is that some of those so call expert analysis thinks that brees is as good as or better than carson . when i hear thai i just laugh my ass off brees could not hold carson's jock strap. i think brees is a little better version of kitna but is in no way shape or form a elite qb as carson peyton or brady is. a good one but no where near the top 3

[cincy9275]

the difference i think with the colts d and ours , kinda like racing even if you have the fastest car on the track if you don't know how to drive it your not going to win. bresh is terrible he can not call a game to save his life i have never never seen a play that he called and said that was a good call. it' more like wtf was that 3rd and 19 and we could not stop them.

[Kazkal]

Their defense doesn't always work.

[HairOnFire]

I'm really starting to think Marvin isn't the defensive guru he has been made to be. He just simply was in the right place at the right time. He was in Baltimore when they had some great players including who some think might be the best LB of all time in Ray Lewis.

But Lewis wasn't coaching in Baltimore when he was hired. He was running a transformed Washington Redskin defense without any help from that teams head coach. And the difference between there and here seems to rest on his ability to turn several previously non-descript players, mostly LB'ers, into outstanding players. Along those same lines, he also managed to get the most out of Lavar Arrington, transforming a flashy mistake prone OLB into a true impact player. In Cincy, attempts to transform the LB corp have been repeatedly derailed, usually by catasrophic injury, but also by the prolonged suspension of Odell Thurman, who was emerging as a true impact player.

[derekshank]

Are we really saying that the Colts defenes works where the Bengals defense fails? The Bengals defense certainly had games last year where they played at an incredibly high level. The problem is that of inconsistency... something that the Colts share. The Colts allowed some of the worst rushing yards in NFL history last year, but played incredibly well in the playoffs.

The Bengals are no different. Look at the difference between holding the Saints to 16 last year the week after giving up 49 to the Chargers. Or shutting out the Browns and holding the Ravens to 7 a couple short weeks before the bottom fell out against the Colts, Broncos, and Steelers. The Bengals at times play great defense - it just never seems to be long-term. And a week 1 victory against the Saints isn't enough to convince me that the Colts defense is the second coming of the 85 Bears either.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Dood if we had Odell they'd be a top 5 D!

[Stripes]

Dood if we had Odell they'd be a top 5 D!

Nobody is saying that. Nobody even thought about saying that. Well, except you.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Dood if we had Odell they'd be a top 5 D!

Nobody is saying that. Nobody even thought about saying that. Well, except you.

As much as I love Thurman's play, I can't bring myself to utter those words. It would take far more than one player to make that happen IMHO.

[Stripes]

Dood if we had Odell they'd be a top 5 D!

Nobody is saying that. Nobody even thought about saying that. Well, except you.

As much as I love Thurman's play, I can't bring myself to utter those words. It would take far more than one player to make that happen IMHO.

Definitely. I think you'd have to be the biggest homer alive to think otherwise.