walzav29 Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 I do believe that the DL is better than last year. They only lost Simmons from the linebackers, and with more experience in the secodary with JJ and a healthy DJ, and Madieu. Adding another #1 pick at corner who will tackle. I think they will be better. I know they looked horrible in the pre-season, but why would be so eager to jump on how bad the secondary's stats were and not at how good they were against the run and the sacks? That's why the preseason sucks. We don't believe the positives and we magnify the negatives. How many times do you think we'll hear, "That why the preseason is meaningless" this weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 I agree that the d-line looks better (tho we've had good preseason stats versus the run before only to revert to the usual crap once the real thing starts). The trouble with the secondary is twofold. First, the pillow-soft zone. Lapham pointed this out on Lance's show before the Indy game, talking about Harrington's performance. The PSZ means receivers are open when they step off the line, so all the QB has to do is take a 3-step drop and fire the ball. Doesn't matter how good the d-lines rush is, no one has time to get to the QB.Second problem is just that the secondary is relying on a lot of youth. Once you get beyond O'Neal, Dexter and Madieu, guys either have little experience or, in Keiwan's case, questionable skills. And I think it's a good bet that we will "get beyond" at least O'Neal and Dexter for some stretches this season, given how each of them have had almost annual struggles with injuries throughout their careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 I agree that the d-line looks better (tho we've had good preseason stats versus the run before only to revert to the usual crap once the real thing starts). The trouble with the secondary is twofold. First, the pillow-soft zone. Lapham pointed this out on Lance's show before the Indy game, talking about Harrington's performance. The PSZ means receivers are open when they step off the line, so all the QB has to do is take a 3-step drop and fire the ball. Doesn't matter how good the d-lines rush is, no one has time to get to the QB.Second problem is just that the secondary is relying on a lot of youth. Once you get beyond O'Neal, Dexter and Madieu, guys either have little experience or, in Keiwan's case, questionable skills. And I think it's a good bet that we will "get beyond" at least O'Neal and Dexter for some stretches this season, given how each of them have had almost annual struggles with injuries throughout their careers.Well said. Overall, I think we have a reason to be optimistic about our secondary in general.It just depends on 1) Putting them in the right defensive scheme to succeed and 2) how quickly the young guys progress.I'm not going to pass any judgment on schemes until we see what happens during the first few regular season games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Hmm, I remember posting about how the talent level didn't match the results this defense was getting last week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agreen_112 Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 We should be fine in the secondary this year. Hall, JJ, O'Neal, Madman, Dexter is a good group of guys. I really don't think the coaches took pre-season too seriously for the starters. Leon Hall had a great Preseason... Preseason was "Let's go through the motions, we'll analyze the tape. Minimize the injuries, NO SENSELESS INJURIES!" Our secondary will improve, believe me. All pre-season was about this year was filling that roster with the best possible players, I think the coaches did a great job. The scheme has me worried the most, but I think they'll make adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Brooks21 Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 I do believe that the DL is better than last year. They only lost Simmons from the linebackers, and with more experience in the secodary with JJ and a healthy DJ, and Madieu. Adding another #1 pick at corner who will tackle. I think they will be better. I know they looked horrible in the pre-season, but why would be so eager to jump on how bad the secondary's stats were and not at how good they were against the run and the sacks? That's why the preseason sucks. We don't believe the positives and we magnify the negatives. How many times do you think we'll hear, "That why the preseason is meaningless" this weekend?The secondary will only be good as the defensive line is. If the defensive line is not getting any pressure and letting the quarterback sit back there for five seconds then the secondary will be picked apart. It's absolutely unfair and unbelievable to expect our secondary to stay attached with world caliber athletes past that amount of time. Get pressure on the quarterback and make him uncomfortable in that pocket and the secondary will be able to make plays. The Bengals don't have a Champ Bailey or Deion Sanders to stay with receivers for that long period of a time without getting beat. John Thornton looked good in the preseason hopefully it will carry over to the real season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Hmm, I remember posting about how the talent level didn't match the results this defense was getting last week...Trouble is that all the talent in the secondary comes with "ifs" attached.Madieu can be a big-time safety...if he can recapture his freshman form. He hasn't been the same since the injury.Dexter can be a solid safety...if he can stay healthy (which he didn't even manage to do through the preseason).Deltha can be a pro bowl CB...if he too can stay healthy...and if he feels like playing on any given Sunday.JJoe can be a big-time corner...if he continues to develop.Then you have a bunch of rooks and ST types who may develop into something (and in the case of Leon Hall, had better develop!) but who right now would likely be raw meat for a decent NFL QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Will ChuckB/ML realize that you can't give seven yard cushions as they line up? Will they? Because until they do, I will be throwing things at the TV... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCook Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Will ChuckB/ML realize that you can't give seven yard cushions as they line up? Will they? Because until they do, I will be throwing things at the TV...I've been telling myself during the preseason that the soft zone is just for pre-season, just for pre-season. But my worry is Joesph and his injured foot. If he can't go 100% in the first month, the D is done in. Hall should be able to step in sometime around November but thats a long wait. If Deltha is still pouting then it will be a mess back there. However if JJ is 100%, Deltha is motivated, Madieu focused on a new contract, then they have the horses to shutdown the better passing teams. But the only thing to do is see what happens next Monday as Baltimore will be as honest a test as we all should want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 The defensive line will be better, but the linebacking play will drop. We'll play the run better with the defensive line, I should say, but I know we don't have a consistent enough of a pass rush to help our secondary.Why The defense should be better.- Peko is starting. * That's about all I got folks Why the defense could take a step back !- No O'Dell- No Pollack- Deltha's losing his legs ( bad knee )- J Joseph is dinged- Chuck Bresnahan is still our defensive coordinator.- Releasing your most consistent and intelligent linebacker in Brian Simmons was a mistake, especially considering how many plays he makes each year against our fellow North foes !...... the offense lost a lot with no Chris Henry, No Perry, and No Kenny Irons. We need the offense to keep these guys off the field, and with a tough schedule against good defenses early means we'll be looking at a tired defense early and often.- There's always Hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
711chad Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 the secondary looks a little better leon hall couldnt hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 I figure the secondary will still be inconsistent, but they are too talented to play so poorly two seasons straight. I don't see any reason to expect a drop in takeaway production either, and that was even good last season. I still don't think Bres's scheme is a major reason they've had issues.My expectations for a somewhat improved defense are centered around a much improved defensive line. If the Bengals finish in the top 13 in run defense, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 I figure the secondary will still be inconsistent, but they are too talented to play so poorly two seasons straight. I don't see any reason to expect a drop in takeaway production either, and that was even good last season. I still don't think Bres's scheme is a major reason they've had issues.My expectations for a somewhat improved defense are centered around a much improved defensive line. If the Bengals finish in the top 13 in run defense, I wouldn't be at all surprised.I think I'd take that, take it and run actually. Right now I just have my fingers crossed. Someopne already said it perfectly, their are a lot of "ifs" for the Bengals. On both sides of the ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Brooks21 Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 I figure the secondary will still be inconsistent, but they are too talented to play so poorly two seasons straight. I don't see any reason to expect a drop in takeaway production either, and that was even good last season. I still don't think Bres's scheme is a major reason they've had issues.My expectations for a somewhat improved defense are centered around a much improved defensive line. If the Bengals finish in the top 13 in run defense, I wouldn't be at all surprised.I think I'd take that, take it and run actually. Right now I just have my fingers crossed. Someopne already said it perfectly, their are a lot of "ifs" for the Bengals. On both sides of the ball What I want to know is how Denver is getting all this money to sign all these free agents and we have to settle for third tier free agents. Sam Adams is the biggest name free agent that I can remember us signing, that's out right a shame there. I would not knock the system if it resulted in us getting somewhere but since we seem to fall short all the time the Bengals need to go out and get somebody with a name on defense next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 PASS RUSH, PASS RUSH, PASS RUSH...If we could put ANY pressure on opposing QB's our secondary would be amazing. I don't care if you are Champ Bailey, if you give a QB and good receiver enough time, they will hook up on a pass. We don't get enough of a pass rush and I don't like what I've seen from our blitz packages. Yes, I think the defense will improve, but how soon and how many games will it cost us before that happens ??WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Hmm, I remember posting about how the talent level didn't match the results this defense was getting last week...Trouble is that all the talent in the secondary comes with "ifs" attached.Madieu can be a big-time safety...if he can recapture his freshman form. He hasn't been the same since the injury.Dexter can be a solid safety...if he can stay healthy (which he didn't even manage to do through the preseason).Deltha can be a pro bowl CB...if he too can stay healthy...and if he feels like playing on any given Sunday.JJoe can be a big-time corner...if he continues to develop.Then you have a bunch of rooks and ST types who may develop into something (and in the case of Leon Hall, had better develop!) but who right now would likely be raw meat for a decent NFL QB.I tend to agree but also think JJ and/or Hall should be an upgrade to James - 1st round picks shouldn't be projects - sure they'll have a learning curve - but to downplay everything is to once again give the coaches a free pass.I also don't see how Madeiu is magically no good anymore - it's how they use him that matters IMO - once again referencing the scheme and coaching here.There's enough talent to be a playoff team - 16+ sacks out of their DE's last year, a host of veteran D-lineman, two 1st round corners and a corner two years removed from a Pro Bowl starting birth, and a FS who was lights out in 2005 pre-injury and is now 100% healthy again. Sure the LB's are below league average, so I'll give Hunley a pass, but if they're satisified with who they have - and I assume they are since they didn't go out and sign or draft anyone on defense other than Hall and Myers this off-season to help immediately - then I expect the coaching staff to develop players and use them the right way in order to win. If they suck again, I think you wipe out that d-coaching staff altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Secondary is not an issue with a good PASS RUSH !!! Ok, they got 16 sacks out of their DE's and (I honestly think) they are getting better against the run, but there is NO consistent pass rush. If they do that, our corners will look shutdownish...WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Secondary is not an issue with a good PASS RUSH !!! Ok, they got 16 sacks out of their DE's and (I honestly think) they are getting better against the run, but there is NO consistent pass rush. If they do that, our corners will look shutdownish...It's not the rush. NO pass rush could be effective when the secondary provides zero coverage in the first 5-7 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, and that's what we were doing in preseason. The QB can fire the ball to an open receiver quicker than any pass rush can get to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Ok, I'll give on that point Hoosier, but will not relent on the fact there is not enough of a pass rush. When we do blitz, it seems effective, but you don't see it that often and when we don't blitz, we don't seem to get much pressure on the QB at all. I (like many others I assume) just want more...WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincy9275 Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 the secondary and the dline play off one another if you secondary can cover a wideout that means your dline will have more time to get the qb , if your dline can get pressure on the qb then that helps out the secondary. the problem lies in breshes scheme if you play 10 yards off the line the the wideout are always open for quick passes and slants and underneath crossing routes. so bresh is thinking hey they won't beat us with the long ball no dummy meaning bresh they will dink and dunk there way down the field which keeps your defense on the field longer and just wears them out that much faster so breshes defense of scheme is very flawed. you have to at some time put you db's with in 5 yard of the wide so they can take away all the dink and dunk crap and it also gives the coner time to recover if the wide can get by them. then explain to me if bresh is not at fault then who is the players i don't think so. the radiers went to the superbowl and told bresh to find another job because they did not want his piss poor bush league bull s**t anymore the guy is a joke and any high school qb could pick apart his defense it is so simple and plain hell it seems to me that he does not even take in to consideration of the down and distance when he makes his calls because there is no way in hell that our db's should be playing 10 yards off the line on a 3rd and 3 that just show that he should not be coaching at this level let alone pee wee football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobcat Bengal Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Yeah, why wouldn't the secondary be better without Tory James? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Yeah, why wouldn't the secondary be better without Tory James? For the answer to this question please locate our missing wayward brother, The Next Big Thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 I note the Saints seem magically capable of actually, um, covering Colt receivers. Apparently, it CAN be done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 I note the Saints seem magically capable of actually, um, covering Colt receivers. Apparently, it CAN be done...Bengals DC Chuck Penguinhan says...you didn't see aaanything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Well, except for the second half. Good lord, that turned in a hurry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.