In Marvin (we?) Trust

[BZBot]

An argument among fans that has to stop.

Source: http://www.bengalszone.com/article.php?sid=542

[duus]

No kidding. How soon folks forget. Like all you guys, I too lived through the horror of the 90s. Yet, even worse, I lived through it IN PISSBURGH. I've been bruised. I've been scarred. Marvin is a god-send, and folks must know that. Sure, it's time for a new standard, and Marvin knows that too. But if we are going to 'get there' in the next 3-5 years, it will not be with a new coach, new staff, and change in system. It will occur with the guy that currently manages the team. Consistency and patience. If what you want is a championship, then stick with Marvin. If it will happen at all, it will happen with him.

[agreen_112]

No kidding. How soon folks forget. Like all you guys, I too lived through the horror of the 90s. Yet, even worse, I lived through it IN PISSBURGH. I've been bruised. I've been scarred. Marvin is a god-send, and folks must know that. Sure, it's time for a new standard, and Marvin knows that too. But if we are going to 'get there' in the next 3-5 years, it will not be with a new coach, new staff, and change in system. It will occur with the guy that currently manages the team. Consistency and patience. If what you want is a championship, then stick with Marvin. If it will happen at all, it will happen with him.

I feel you on that, but he (The Defensive master mind behind the Ravens SB winning team) needs to turn this defense around. RIGHT NOW!!! No starter should have a safe position. I can't take LT, McGahee, Maroney, Addai, Parker, ect. running all over us anymore, it has to stop this season.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

So because the Bengals' were so bad in the 90's, we're supposed to blindly worship a .500 coach?

Whatever with those low standards.

I like Marvin, but I'm not going to wait another 10 years for a playoff run, ecspecially with one of the top 4-5 QB's in the league.

We're 5 years in now with one playoff loss to show for it.

Sorry but my standards are higher than that.

[duus]

So because the Bengals' were so bad in the 90's, we're supposed to blindly worship a .500 coach?

Whatever with those low standards.

I like Marvin, but I'm not going to wait another 10 years for a playoff run, ecspecially with one of the top 4-5 QB's in the league.

We're 5 years in now with one playoff loss to show for it.

Sorry but my standards are higher than that.

No, me neither. I did not mean to imply that he stays for 10 years, with a bunch of .500 seasons, and little to no playoff appearances. I'm just saying that he should almost be given a pass for the 2006 season. Think about it ... he took an absolutely horrible team (uh, franchise), and managed to get them to 2 straight .500 seasons. That was huge back then. Then he gives us division title and an 11-5 record. Things were looking great. A playoff appearance. But we all know what happened next. Add to that the Henry and Odell issues, the Palmer injury, and the O-line injuries, and '06 completely stunk ... but he still had them in playoff contention. Honestly, the only problem I have with what he did or did not do last year was what happened down the stretch. That should be on the coach, but then again, they were in a position to win and the players did not execute when they needed to most.

Do I give him 10 more years? No way. But I think the 3-5 year span is about right. This year should and will be much closer to our '05 look. Then I will love watching '08 and '09. We'll go from there. But if this year is 9-7 or so, I still don't kick him out the door. Too much has happened ... too many variables.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

So because the Bengals' were so bad in the 90's, we're supposed to blindly worship a .500 coach?

Whatever with those low standards.

I like Marvin, but I'm not going to wait another 10 years for a playoff run, ecspecially with one of the top 4-5 QB's in the league.

We're 5 years in now with one playoff loss to show for it.

Sorry but my standards are higher than that.

Changing coaches in the NFL is one of those 'be careful what you wish for...' things.

Let's say we wanted to dump Marvin. Who do we grab? I hear Dave Wannstedt is available. Norv Turner will probably be fired by then. The Lions will likely have hired and fired 3 coaches whose name starts with 'M' within a couple of years. But aside from that usual cast of losers, who the heck is available? You want Jim Mora until the UW job opens up?

Or maybe we can get Bill Cowher, that would be great, right?

Forget that. I'll gladly take Marvin. Put it this way - the Brown family has made one decent coaching hire in the last 15 years. I don't trust them to do it again.

[bengal4life]

Forget that. I'll gladly take Marvin. Put it this way - the Brown family has made one decent coaching hire in the last 15 years. I don't trust them to do it again.

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

[DesperateDerelict]

.....................Sorry but my standards are higher than that.

With a handle like "ShulaSteakhouse", how in the hell can you talk about standards?

[membengal]

He's not a .500 coach, Shula.

[HairOnFire]

So because the Bengals' were so bad in the 90's, we're supposed to blindly worship a .500 coach?

Whatever with those low standards.

I like Marvin, but I'm not going to wait another 10 years for a playoff run, ecspecially with one of the top 4-5 QB's in the league.

We're 5 years in now with one playoff loss to show for it.

Sorry but my standards are higher than that.

Your standards seem higher than your math ability. Marvin isn't a .500 coach and the Bengals won a division championship the season prior to last year.

Bottom Line: At the first sign of adversity somebody has to be the first to spill his water....so props to you.

[turnip]

The fact that there is debate proves that ML is becoming a victim of his own success. I think we would be wise to learn from Tampa Bay. After years of pathetic football in Tampa, a man named Tony Dungy took over, posting a .500 record in his first three years. He then went 11-5, 10-6, then 9-7. This was unacceptable to the new-attitude Bucs fans, and he was replaced with Jon Gruden. Before Chucky had a chance to drive the Bucs back into the ground, he milked a Super Bowl out of Dungy's team.

But tell me who the Bucs would rather have now?

I think we have someone great here, guys, we don't want to lose him. Coach Lewis is trying to build his defense through the draft, nothing like Monsters-of-the-Midway, but a defense good enough to force some turnovers when our high-powered offense gets the lead. That is, after all, how Dungy finally won his super bowl. We've had some setbacks; with a healthy Pollack and Odell entering their 3rd years, the mood around here would obviously be much better. Hell, I still think we would have won Super Bowl XL if Palmer didn't go down. But the point is, I think ML shows much more promise of future success and a championship than anyone we could replace him with.

So yes, In Marvin We Trust.

[Bobcat Bengal]

I don't want another Coach. What would cycling in another HC accomplish?

Coach Lewis is the right fit for this team.

Period.

[jjakq27]

So because the Bengals' were so bad in the 90's, we're supposed to blindly worship a .500 coach?

Whatever with those low standards.

I like Marvin, but I'm not going to wait another 10 years for a playoff run, ecspecially with one of the top 4-5 QB's in the league.

We're 5 years in now with one playoff loss to show for it.

Sorry but my standards are higher than that.

I am surprised that you still follow the team at all with that kind of outlook. Some may question you for not having enough sense to move on by now since you are always dissatisfied with the team and MB.

Borrowing from your own signature ("We're a small-market team at the very bottom," Irsay says. "But if you want to win, you've got to take some leaps of faith. And I'm in it to win."- Jim Irsay, Colts, owner of the NFL's smallest market team, and reigning Super Bowl Champions.), I think the Bengals have done well with their leap of faith in Marvin Lewis. For all the hoopla in Dallas, what did Tuna do that Marvin hasn't done? Parcells was 34-30 and two playoff losses with suppossedly a better ownership situation. Meanwhile Marvin has gone one game better at 35-29 with one loss in the playoffs.

Here are the records of some of the more highly regarded coaching names during the same time period (2003-2007). I don't think that he belongs in the upper eschelon compared to the top 6 or so but he is right there at the next level. Hopefully this is the year that he moves up. But regardless, I think asking for much more, considering all of the obstacles that you say the management places before Marvin, is silly.

Bill Belichick 50-14; 9-2, 2 Super Bowl wins

Tony Dungy 50-14, 7-3 playoffs, 1 Super Bowl win

Mike Shanahan 42-22, 1-3 playoffs

Andy Reid 41-23, 4-3 playoffs, 1 Super Bowl appearance

Mike Holmgren 41-23, 3-4 playoffs, 1 Super Bowl appearance

Bill Cowher 40-24; 5-1 playoffs, 1 Super Bowl win (retired)

Marty Schottenheimer 39-25, 0-2 playoffs (fired)

Brian Billick 38-26; 0-2 playoffs

John Fox 37-27, 5-2 playoffs, 1 Super Bowl appearance

Marvin Lewis 35-29, 0-1 playoffs

Jack DelRio 34-30, 0-2 playoffs

Bill Parcells 34-30, 0-2 playoffs (retired)

Tom Coughlin 31-33, 0-2 playoffs

Jeff Fisher 29-35, 1-1 playoffs

Herm Edwards 29-35, 1-2 playoffs

(Three Seasons)

Lovie Smith (2004-06) 29-19, 2-2 playoffs, 1 Super Bowl appearance

Jim Mora Jr. (2004-06) 26-22, 1-1 playoffs (fired)

[ShulaSteakhouse]

So because the Bengals' were so bad in the 90's, we're supposed to blindly worship a .500 coach?

Whatever with those low standards.

I like Marvin, but I'm not going to wait another 10 years for a playoff run, ecspecially with one of the top 4-5 QB's in the league.

We're 5 years in now with one playoff loss to show for it.

Sorry but my standards are higher than that.

No, me neither. I did not mean to imply that he stays for 10 years, with a bunch of .500 seasons, and little to no playoff appearances. I'm just saying that he should almost be given a pass for the 2006 season. Think about it ... he took an absolutely horrible team (uh, franchise), and managed to get them to 2 straight .500 seasons. That was huge back then. Then he gives us division title and an 11-5 record. Things were looking great. A playoff appearance. But we all know what happened next. Add to that the Henry and Odell issues, the Palmer injury, and the O-line injuries, and '06 completely stunk ... but he still had them in playoff contention. Honestly, the only problem I have with what he did or did not do last year was what happened down the stretch. That should be on the coach, but then again, they were in a position to win and the players did not execute when they needed to most.

Do I give him 10 more years? No way. But I think the 3-5 year span is about right. This year should and will be much closer to our '05 look. Then I will love watching '08 and '09. We'll go from there. But if this year is 9-7 or so, I still don't kick him out the door. Too much has happened ... too many variables.

Ok, yeah winning records are all I ask for more often than not, and 9-7, per your example, is just that. After all the losing the pendulum has to swing the other way at some point. When every single other team has had their run since 1991, other than the Bengals, it gets a little ridiculous and inexcusable.

I don't blame Marvin for everything - again I do like him and want him to succeed here (despite his arrogance and short-winded nature which is annoying) but I don't think just anyone can overcome the obstacles the Brown family provides either. But, he has the ability to make moves and fill out a roster, and allocate some money where he wants it here - so the excuses only go so far.

The .500 records are just not acceptable any longer, and even the excuses given last year don't really fly with me, every team has major injuries to overcome and tough schedules.

[BigBenBlows]

I some what agree with Shula. 8-8 was good a few years back compared to the 15 yrs of misery. I think Marvin has restored the roar but we REALLY need a better season. Good teams find a way to win, not find excuses. Here's to a better season in '08.

[Stripes]

Nobody is satisfied with .500.

Nobody is satisfied with .500.

Nobody is satisfied with .500.

Nobody is satisfied with .500.

[jjakq27]

To the dissatisfied, please define what you consider acceptable.

In the last four years, the Super Bowl was won by NE and Indy in three of the four years. In the other, it was won by the Steelers. Without getting into the details, I think many here believe that the Bengals were every bit as good as the Steelers that year if not better. However, at this point I don't believe the Bengals are in Indy or NE's league and neither are most of the other teams in the league.

So short of winning the Super Bowl, I would like to know what folks think a good year would look like. Is it 10-6 or 11-5 at a minimum? Is it one or two playoff wins? Is it making it to the Super Bowl and losing (again)? Or is winning the Super Bowl the only thing worthy of a good year?

Maybe I have set my sights too low, but here's what I'd be happy with. I want a team that is competitive every week. A team that isn't the joke of the league. A team that has players that are considered among the best at their positions and are at the top of the statistical categories each year. I want a coach that is respected by his peers. A team that sends multiple players to the Pro Bowl every year. A team that is worthy of a few national games each year. A team that is in the hunt for the playoffs until the last week every year.

I want to know that this team has a chance to win every week when I head to PBS or go to my favorite sports bar. And some weeks I just might see something really special.

[Stripes]

So short of winning the Super Bowl, I would like to know what folks think a good year would look like. Is it 10-6 or 11-5 at a minimum? Is it one or two playoff wins? Is it making it to the Super Bowl and losing (again)? Or is winning the Super Bowl the only thing worthy of a good year?

I think that varies depending on the talent present on the team in question. In most circumstances, I'd define any season in which the Bengals participate in the playoffs as a "good one". Similarly, when the Bengals perform way above expectations even without a playoff appearance, I'd call that a good season (see 2003).

With the team currently in Cincinnati, I'd consider anything less than a second round appearance a disappointment.

[cincy9275]

The fact that there is debate proves that ML is becoming a victim of his own success. I think we would be wise to learn from Tampa Bay. After years of pathetic football in Tampa, a man named Tony Dungy took over, posting a .500 record in his first three years. He then went 11-5, 10-6, then 9-7. This was unacceptable to the new-attitude Bucs fans, and he was replaced with Jon Gruden. Before Chucky had a chance to drive the Bucs back into the ground, he milked a Super Bowl out of Dungy's team.

But tell me who the Bucs would rather have now?

I think we have someone great here, guys, we don't want to lose him. Coach Lewis is trying to build his defense through the draft, nothing like Monsters-of-the-Midway, but a defense good enough to force some turnovers when our high-powered offense gets the lead. That is, after all, how Dungy finally won his super bowl. We've had some setbacks; with a healthy Pollack and Odell entering their 3rd years, the mood around here would obviously be much better. Hell, I still think we would have won Super Bowl XL if Palmer didn't go down. But the point is, I think ML shows much more promise of future success and a championship than anyone we could replace him with.

So yes, In Marvin We Trust.

lol i was just thinking the same thing before i read your post. with marvin he has to get the defense fixed, must start winning games at the end of seasons to push away from 8-8 . then keeping bresh, marvin must know something we don't to keep him. all in all marvin is a good coach that needs to do some things better and i think he can do that.

[Scottishbengal]

I think with Marvins pedigree as a defensive guru that the D falls far short of expectations of most fans. We all want a team that can dominate the AFCN and by so doing make the play-offs regularly. Once into the play-offs we obviously want to go as far as possible. However, Marvin's had his feet under the table long enough to have the D pointing in the right direction, but it's the D that is still the achiles heel of the team.

2006: 8-8 finished 2nd in AFCN (home 4-4, away 4-4, divisional 4-2)

2005: 11-5 finished 1st in AFCN (home 5-3, away 6-2, divisional 5-1)

2004: 8-8 finished 3rd in AFCN (5-3 home, 3-5 away, divisional 2-4)

2003: 8-8 finished 2nd in AFCN (5-3 home, 3-5 away, divisional 3-3)

No doubt Marvin had a monumental task on his hands to turn the team around and has done so to some degree, but I personally feel should this season fall short he will start to feel the heat. I hope not as ML has put in an awful lot of hard work to build the foundations of this side and it would be fitting and just that he be at the helm to take the glory when it falls into place. I just can't see the expectation/patience lasting too much longer though.