Grade the Bengals Draft

[mjm47]

I graded A - now let's see some CFA's (Walter Thomas).

Who graded F and why?

troll

hey - what'd I do?

I'm not a troll.

[HoosierCat]

I graded A - now let's see some CFA's (Walter Thomas).

Who graded F and why?

troll

hey - what'd I do?

I'm not a troll.

I think he meant that it was a troll who voted F, not that you were a troll.

[mjm47]

Of course - so I'm an idiot - not sure I feel any better now.

[Ox]

1) too many offensive players taken

2) offensive players taken too early overall (particularly the RB)

Couldn't agree more.

I give it an overall B. Maybe B-. It was a good draft I guess. I' d have to say I was underwhelmed with the Defensive slections, save our round 1 steal.

[Stripes]

Of course - so I'm an idiot - not sure I feel any better now.

We've seen much worse around here, man.

[kingwilly]

A-, but I hope Irons is healthy. Maybe because I am "Perry-Wary".

Good work in combining the BPA philosophy and the "Positional Need" approach.

Without the Rowe pick, this is an A draft, especially if we work Brooks in the equation. Let's not forget Brooks and what he does for this team, once he get the full prep/camp/season.

One last thing, I mentioned this earlier but the idea that we can save cap space on the 2nd string QB is a very bad way to go. Rowe may be a great prospect, who's to say, but we cannot and should not be so silly as to think he is more than a camp arm/PS helper. I think we could get a comparable arm in UDFA. 5th rd could have grabbed a raw LB to bolster our thin corp, as it is we've knd of wasted that slot.

[palmmyjohnson]

One last thing, I mentioned this earlier but the idea that we can save cap space on the 2nd string QB is a very bad way to go. Rowe may be a great prospect, who's to say, but we cannot and should not be so silly as to think he is more than a camp arm/PS helper. I think we could get a comparable arm in UDFA. 5th rd could have grabbed a raw LB to bolster our thin corp, as it is we've knd of wasted that slot.

I've seen one commentator compare Rowe to Jim Sorgi. If Rowe ends up comparable to Sorgi I'm happy with the pick. Especially since it looks like any LB we could have gotten at that point is about as good as the UDFA LBs out there.

[derekshank]

Here are my individual grades:

Round 1: Hall - 'A' - Best player on the board. Never thought he'd fall to 18.

Round 2: Irons 'B+' - I'm starting to like the pick more and more, although I was completely confused at the time.

Round 3: Brooks (yes I count it) - 'A+' - Value far superior to a 3rd.

Round 4: White - 'A+' - Love it, love it, love it.

Round 5: Rowe - 'D' - I just don't like going QB this early. If he's the best player on the board... fine. I'll live with the BPA strategy... but think there were players that could have had more impact on the team.

Round 6: Toeaina - 'B' - I like drafting DT's. My only complaint is that they could have had Antonio Johnson if they hadn't taken Rowe.

Round 7: Santucci - 'A-' - Good value pick. Versatile depth on the O-Line.

Round 7: Ndukwe - 'B' - Good upside.

I didn't want to just grade it a 'B' because that seems so safe and non-commital. So I went a bit more scientific. I weighted it as any good high-school teacher would.

According to those individual grades (with earlier round picks having more value assigned to them), it earned a 90%, a low-end A-. That's closer to an 'A' than a 'B' so I voted 'A' (Like anyone cared).

[membengal]

Solid draft, I am very pleased. Got the defensive backfield help they needed, addressed a little of my concern on offense with Irons, and got their primary back-up down the road to CP. Nice work. The late guys seem like the good long-term projects. All in all, an A from me.

My concern remains at receiver, but I will hope you all are right about our alleged depth. I just know that the first time we go to a three receiver set this fall, and it's not Henry out there but instead Chatman or a coming-off-injury Tab, it's going to be hard to swallow. But I will cross my fingers over it and hope Brazell or Holt or Perry or whomever really is all that and two bags of chips...

[Dadraftnick]

I graded F because,this draft does nothing to move a 30th ranked defense to #29 and nothing to make a 8-8 team a playoff team.

This draft means that another year of watching Girlcheck at C,another year of watching Bryan Robinson get 0 tackles for entire games,another year watching your team get run all over because of an aging D line,another year of little production from TE's,in short THE BENGALS DID NOT ADDRESS THEIR NEEDS.

Before the draft the Bengals needed C,DE,DT,LB,G,S they got a back up G and back up S.

They got a pair of back up S's and a back up G that I bet will end up a taxi squad guy.

You cant do stupid things like use a 1st round pick for nickel back.

You cant do stupid things in the draft like use a first round draft choice for a back up RB and then use a 2nd round pick a couple of years later to back him up.

You cant loose your two starting LB's and then cut your best one,any other team would have got a 2nd rond pick out of Brian Simmons.

If the Bengals did things like trade down, pick up extra picks, use the picks on needs for that can start they could have the extra money to do what the Patriots have done this year.

Ask yourself would you rather have a Hall at nickel back and Kenny Irons at back up RB or would you rather have Alan Branch stuffing the run and Victor Abiamiri at DE keeping teams from double teaming Justin Smith,both would start day one and improve the defense.

You could have picked up a nickel back or back up RB later in the draft or went with Ratliff or Brooks at nickel ,you have to go for starting D lineman in the first 2-3 rounds.

[membengal]

I would rather have Hall and Irons.

As usual, could not disagree more with draftnik, which pleases me, because of how very very wrong you historically are in the days after the drafts.

Bodes well for the Bengals again in 2007...

[BengalChamps]

I wish they would have waited a round for the QB. Otherwise no complaints. I give it a B.

[HoosierCat]

Ask yourself would you rather have a Hall at nickel back and Kenny Irons at back up RB or would you rather have Alan Branch stuffing the run and Victor Abiamiri at DE keeping teams from double teaming Justin Smith,both would start day one and improve the defense.

I think you can make an argument for Branch over Hall, but it's by no means a slam-dunk. If Deltha keeps stinking it up, or someone gets dinged, Branch means you're starting either Ratliff or some day 2 pick CB...yikes. As for reaching 8-10 picks for a DE vs. Irons, I'll pass. Doing just that was a big part of how they got into this mess in the first place, remember? They reached for defense with four straight day 1 picks in 2004 and got one starter, Madieu, and three guys who all may be gone next year in Ratliff, Landon and Miller.

[Dadraftnick]

I would rather have Hall and Irons.

As usual, could not disagree more with draftnik, which pleases me, because of how very very wrong you historically are in the days after the drafts.

Bodes well for the Bengals again in 2007...

Wrong like when I said that Chris Henry was a head case and character problem and that you cant draft character problems because they get susupended in todays NFL and that Henry would take other players down with him?

Wrong like when I though Thurman would be a character problem but I have to say I did not imagine he would be as bad as he has been ?

Wrong like when I thought Rucker would be a character problem and he was arrested more than once---I also thought he was not worhty of a 3rd rnd pick and could have been had later in the draft ?

Please tell me where I was wrong.

I did not say Hall and Irons were bad players ,I think that the're good--What I am saying is use the early rounds of the draft to draft guys that will come in start in positions of need.

Spots like DE's and DT's come at a premium in the draft thats why they are gone in the first two to three rounds if you are going to draft guys for nickel back or back up RB --Trade down pick up extra picks then you can afford to draft spots like back up spots early.

Two part time players do nothing to help the way a starting DT or DE would --The first 4 rounds of the draft should be for starters.

This is the kind of thing that Dave Shula used to do,use early draft choices for back ups.

For every one hating on O'Neal,he was injuried last year, he is a many time PRO BOWL PLAYER. How many people were calling to replace him when he was in the Pro Bowl?

Do you just get rid of or replace all of your Pro Bowl players just because they get hurt?

[HoosierCat]

Two part time players do nothing to help the way a starting DT or DE would --The first 4 rounds of the draft should be for starters.

Actually, I think Kenny Irons could do more to improve our D than would have trading a bunch of picks to get Gaines Adams, Alan Branch and Leon Hall.

Namely, he can play a key role in keeping the D off the field.

Frankly, there was absolutely nothing in either FA or the draft that would "improve" the D quicker than more time on the sidelines. For all the (deserved) complaints about the D's poor performance on 3rd downs, people seem quick to forget that our (allegedly) talented and (definitely) well-compensated offense was an absolute three-and-out machine last season, too.

[membengal]

100% correct hoosier. In every respect.

[Dadraftnick]

Two part time players do nothing to help the way a starting DT or DE would --The first 4 rounds of the draft should be for starters.

Actually, I think Kenny Irons could do more to improve our D than would have trading a bunch of picks to get Gaines Adams, Alan Branch and Leon Hall.

Namely, he can play a key role in keeping the D off the field.

Frankly, there was absolutely nothing in either FA or the draft that would "improve" the D quicker than more time on the sidelines. For all the (deserved) complaints about the D's poor performance on 3rd downs, people seem quick to forget that our (allegedly) talented and (definitely) well-compensated offense was an absolute three-and-out machine last season, too.

I dont think its fair to call a top 5 offense in the NFL a 3 down offense.

I dont think a part time RB will change a game the way a full time DE or DT can especially when your talking about players that come the first 2 rounds.

The problem is not scoring, its stopping the other team from scoring,few teams in the league can score with the Bengals and we can stop few teams in the league from scoring.

I doubt that Perry will miss more than 4 games, Watson did a good job last year when Perry was out.

Look at how good RB UFA DeDe Dorsey played last year,my guess is its not that hard to find a guy like Dorsey or Watson that you dont have to spend a 2nd rnd pick on them.

I think Rudi Johnson is slow,when he was drafted think he ran a 4.78 40yd dash he may have ran a faster time but he is not a break away threat.If they are planning on replacing him I would feel better about a 2nd rnd pick but ,there are so many other areas are needs.

When your starting DE goes a couple of games without a tackle, let alone a sack its time to look for his replacement.

When your starting DT gets 14 tackles for the season and is getting paid over 3 mill its time to look for another guy.

Something else to consider - I read a story the other day that said next years draft will be called the year of the RB and will have one of the deepest and best classes of RB's ever.

Before the draft when the Bengals fainted going D line I didnt see anyone saying what a bad idea that would be or how we would not need to get help on the D-line if only we drafted a RB.

[HoTbOy]

I gave them a B, I don't like the QB pick, if they wanted to go offense they should have grabbed a pass catching TE...if 1 was available...

[Stripes]

Another draft goes by without a single tight end. That amuses me greatly for some reason.

[HoosierCat]

I dont think its fair to call a top 5 offense in the NFL a 3 down offense.

I didn't call it a three-down offense, I said that for an (allegedly) talented it offense it sure had more than its share of sputters. And we weren't top 5 last year, we ranked 8th (in both points and yards). That was a dropoff from 4th in points in 2005 (373 vs. 421). Our rushing attack in particular sucked, ranking 26th in the league.

Would I have complained if they had taken McBride, for example? Not at all. But to grade the draft an F because they spent one pick on a clear position of need on offense -- not to mention arguably BPA -- strikes me as unserious, to say the least.

[HairOnFire]

I'm sticking with a grade of B.

Frankly, I didn't think Leon Hall fell so I don't see it as the incredible value that others do. He went exactly where he should have gone....so no complaints. But for some reason the pick lacks sizzle.

That said, the draft didn't exactly come to the Bengals in the 2nd round, and as much as the Irons pick can be defended due to the way the draft fell in the end it still feels like a move made to correct a previous mistake, the Chris Perry pick. So again, no sizzle.

The White pick is also solid, and fills a huge need. Yet I'm pleasantly surprised that so many agree with the pick because it's always tempting to point to other prospects and say that's where the pick should have gone.

I'm totally fine with the Rowe selection. I've pimped the idea of drafting a backup QB to be developed for something like three or four years in a row, and didn't do it as loudly this year soley because I thought the Bengals wouldn't be able to ignore more pressing needs. But they surprised me.

As for the late round picks, I didn't expect them to add a couple of big bodied lineman who won't have much of a role on special teams. In short, I was expecting more athletic LB/S/TE types. But c'mon, which of us is really prepeared to argue long and hard about late round picks? (Not me.)

[HoosierCat]

As for the late round picks, I didn't expect them to add a couple of big bodied lineman who won't have much of a role on special teams. In short, I was expecting more athletic LB/S/TE types. But c'mon, which of us is really prepeared to argue long and hard about late round picks? (Not me.)

All I'll note is that I'm not sure Santucci and the Big Toe aren't special teamers; both have played more than one position, Santucci on both sides of the ball. They seem pretty versatile. Couple of big bodies for the wedge on the return team at least, maybe?

EDIT: Couldn't find anything specific about the Big Toe but Santucci is a special teamer (punting FG unit I would guess) Santucci:

2005 (SENIOR): ... logged 288:22 of playing time with 76 special teams appearances.

2004 (JUNIOR): ... made 45 special teams appearances and logged a total of 80:51 of playing time for the season.

2003 (SOPHOMORE): Played in all 12 games, almost exclusively on special teams, to earn his first monogram ... played in one game (Stanford) as a reserve defensive tackle ... played 1:13 on the defensive line and made 67 special teams appearances.