Linebackers

[mjm47]

Hey all - I read the board but have only posted once or twice - I was wondering if anybody had a specific idea as to the the physical tools and requirements that each linebacker should possess in a Cover 2.

This is cribbed from an ESPN Insider blog post by Matt Williamson, the guy that covered the AFC North for ESPN this past year:

"Strongside outside linebacker: This player will usually line up over the tight end and is a bigger, more physical defender who can take on tight end blocks and be stout against strongside runs. Of the linebacker positions, this guy is probably the least athletic and although Tampa 2 schemes usually do not blitz a whole lot, the ability to rush the passer off the edge is certainly an added advantage at this spot.

Middle linebacker: What is unique about the Tampa 2 is that the middle linebacker is asked to be able to run deep downfield between the safeties in pass coverage and patrol the deep middle of the field. Therefore, this player must be very fluid with great speed. He also has to be an aggressive downhill run defender and someone with exceptional overall range and instincts. Tampa 2 middle linebackers really don't get any better than Brian Urlacher, as he is the rare bird excels in all facets. The middle linebacker needs to be a supreme playmaker.

Weakside outside linebacker: This is a free-flowing, run-and-hit linebacker position and absolutely must be an exceptional athlete and playmaker who excels in space. Derrick Brooks has been the prototype for years now, as he is quick to diagnose and equally effective against the run or pass. This player can be somewhat undersized, as they should be protected by their fellow front seven defenders. Size can be compromised for pure speed and quickness. Without a top playmaker on the weakside like Brooks or Lance Briggs, this defense just doesn't produce like it is designed. The Lions drafted Ernie Sims very high in last year's draft to be just this type of player in Rod Marinelli's defense. "

The way that I read this, Odell seems like he could definitely play on the weak side - his biggest deficiencies in the year that he played seemed to be mental - he would probably have fewer problems on the weak side, and he certainly has the physical tools outlined above.

Ideally, we could see some mix of Jeanty/Pollack on the strong side, Brooks in the middle and, it seems to me, Thurman on the weak side. I don't know if he's ever played there, but it seems like a possibility to me.

[Stripes]

If Thurman returns, I think the linebackers would fit best thusly:

WSLB - Landon

MLB - Thurman

SSLB - Brooks/Jeanty

If Pollack returns any time soon (which nearly everyone seems to doubt including myself), I see him moving back to DE.

Landon is a productive tackler and is adequate in coverage. I think he'd be similar to Brian Simmons on the field, but more physical and more injury proned.

Thurman struggled with overpursuit as a rookie, but most rookies do. Should he return, I expect MLB to be the only place he'll play at all.

Brooks looks like he may be the most talented of the bunch, and I'd love to have his pass rush ability on the strong side. He's still raw though, and will probably wait behind Jeanty (whom never impressed me as much as he did many other fans).

[mjm47]

I agree that that seems likely - however, it seems to me that, from a talent standpoint, Brooks, Thurman and Jeanty are our best trio (this is assuming that Pollack does not play). Moving Thurman to the weakside seems like the best way of maximizing the talent on the field at any given moment.

My real question is whether or not you guys think that he has the physical tools necessary for the position.

[James_Brooks21]

If Thurman returns, I think the linebackers would fit best thusly:

WSLB - Landon

MLB - Thurman

SSLB - Brooks/Jeanty

If Pollack returns any time soon (which nearly everyone seems to doubt including myself), I see him moving back to DE.

Landon is a productive tackler and is adequate in coverage. I think he'd be similar to Brian Simmons on the field, but more physical and more injury proned.

Thurman struggled with overpursuit as a rookie, but most rookies do. Should he return, I expect MLB to be the only place he'll play at all.

Brooks looks like he may be the most talented of the bunch, and I'd love to have his pass rush ability on the strong side. He's still raw though, and will probably wait behind Jeanty (whom never impressed me as much as he did many other fans).

Landon more physical then Brian Simmons; are you kidding me I have never seen Landon put a good hit on anybody. I agree though on more injury prone. Odell will not start for us next year so kill that notion, at best he's a special teams player if he comes back. Marvin will start Caleb Miller long before he starts Odell, I don't think Marvin trust Odell at all to start him next year. Marvin is not going to start somebody that he can't count on being there every game, non injury wise. Odell a year off of drugs and not in trouble will build confidence in Marvin inserting him in the starting lineup. Pollack should not even be discussed in the plans for any time soon. Hopefully we will get a stud linebacker in one of the first two rounds to put out there. I expect something from Frosty or the FSU linebacker or we need to go ahead and cut ties with them.

[kentjett]

Landon is a poor mans Simmons, adequate at best. He shouldn't be considered a valuable starter, more like a filler. He never blows up any play and he makes every tackle 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage. I used to think the same way about Caleb but he showed a little more promise last year. Jeanty and one of our top two rookies or Henderson should start on the weak and strong sides and Brooks will play the middle. Landon and Caleb should continue to be our subs. Landon will probably start the season on the weak side but he will lose his job halfway through the season to Henderson or a draft pick.

[Stripes]

There isn't much I can say to change people's minds about Landon, but given what I've seen on the field, I'd rather have him starting at WSLB than Simmons. I don't have any statistics handy, but the statement that "he makes all his tackles five yards downfield" seems to be highly overused for any lineman or linebacker a fan is assessing without tape.

People said the same thing about Justin Smith, and the statistics have shown it to be simply untrue.

I don't think Landon should be considered a long-term starter, but I think he's capable of playing the position well while Brooks, Henderson, or a rookie grooms behind him.

[Kazkal]

I agree that that seems likely - however, it seems to me that, from a talent standpoint, Brooks, Thurman and Jeanty are our best trio

I'd disagree,all I see in jeanty atm is a Landon of the strong side you also don't move the player best suited for MLB ( Odell) and SLB (Brooks) just to get a avg player on the field...I'd much rather see Landon-Odell-Brooks then a Odell-Brooks-Jeanty combo since odells better suited for MLB then brooks is and brooks is better SLB then jeanty is

Marvin will start Caleb Miller long before he starts Odell,

I don't know if odell shows he's the best man for the job Marvin might go balls to the wall and start odell if he really feels his seat is hot...odell has the swagger on the field we been missing since his rookie season.

[Stripes]

I don't know if odell shows he's the best man for the job Marvin might go balls to the wall and start odell if he really feels his seat is hot...odell has the swagger on the field we been missing since his rookie season.

Agreed. If Odell returns and appears to be in normal football condition, he'll be the starting MLB with very few questions asked. I don't think Marvin is worried about being on the hot seat, but he'll certainly want to be fielding the best players he can.

[Kazkal]

Aye... If odell stays out of trouble,is in shape when camps start and shows he want it I really don't see him getting more then a 1 suspension by marvin ala Henry style...

I bet by Week 7 Everyone is back on the Odell bandwagon and talking about how he was the boost that we needed back on our defense....you know kinda like his rookie year

[BengalszoneBilly]

Aye... If odell stays out of trouble,is in shape when camps start and shows he want it I really don't see him getting more then a 1 suspension by marvin ala Henry style...

I bet by Week 7 Everyone is back on the Odell bandwagon and talking about how he was the boost that we needed back on our defense....you know kinda like his rookie year

Let's hope for that best case scenario, but in all honesty the chances aren't that good.

[kentjett]

Jeanty made a lot of tackles by standing the ball carrier up, not letting him fall for another 2-3 yards. Landon has never had enough power to stand any WR up, let alone a RB. Face it, Landon sucks.

[Kirkendall]

Landon more physical then Brian Simmons; are you kidding me I have never seen Landon put a good hit on anybody. I agree though on more injury prone. Odell will not start for us next year so kill that notion, at best he's a special teams player if he comes back. Marvin will start Caleb Miller long before he starts Odell, I don't think Marvin trust Odell at all to start him next year. Marvin is not going to start somebody that he can't count on being there every game, non injury wise. Odell a year off of drugs and not in trouble will build confidence in Marvin inserting him in the starting lineup. Pollack should not even be discussed in the plans for any time soon. Hopefully we will get a stud linebacker in one of the first two rounds to put out there. I expect something from Frosty or the FSU linebacker or we need to go ahead and cut ties with them.

Johnson is NOT injury prone. He's yet to miss a game in his three-year career. Chris Perry is injury prone. Landon is not. He's just one tough son of a bitch in that he's carried off the field and back within one quarter.

If Thurman is back, Thurman starts. I understand the whole reliability concept, but if 2007 is any reflection of 2005, then it would be foolish not to put our best MLB in. And with Miller as our likely starting MLB, then Thurman will quickly take that spot. Trust is fine and dandy, but if the team doesn't do well on defense out of the shoot with Thurman on the bench, that will quickly change.

I agree about Frostee and A.J.

Landon is a poor mans Simmons, adequate at best. He shouldn't be considered a valuable starter, more like a filler. He never blows up any play and he makes every tackle 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage.

You nailed it.

Aye... If odell stays out of trouble,is in shape when camps start and shows he want it I really don't see him getting more then a 1 suspension by marvin ala Henry style...

Is he due another suspension? He just completed a 16-game suspension... what the heck else would he get suspended for? The league gave him a 12-game suspension as a result of his last run-in. As far as I know, he's clear from any discipline. But I could be wrong.

[LABengalsFan09]

As much as I love the guy on the field. I think it would be best for everyone here to just let the thought of ever seeing Thurman suit up for the Bengals go. He will NEVER suit up for them again. He has too many personal demons and has betrayed the coaches and personnel. Embrace Ahmad Brooks and pray Patrick WIllis drops in the draft.

[BengalPappaw]

As much as I love the guy on the field. I think it would be best for everyone here to just let the thought of ever seeing Thurman suit up for the Bengals go. He will NEVER suit up for them again. He has too many personal demons and has betrayed the coaches and personnel. Embrace Ahmad Brooks and pray Patrick WIllis drops in the draft.

Or Lawrence Timmons.

[kentjett]

Patrick Willis is our ticket. Please fall, we have a spot waiting for you.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Patrick Willis is our ticket. Please fall, we have a spot waiting for you.

If the 40 he ran at 4.38 is even within 0.2 seconds of being correct, he doesn't fall that far. Although if he does by some chance, nail him.

[Kazkal]

Is he due another suspension? He just completed a 16-game suspension... what the heck else would he get suspended for? The league gave him a 12-game suspension as a result of his last run-in. As far as I know, he's clear from any discipline. But I could be wrong.

No I ment a marvin 1 game type suspension like henry and oneal got.

4.51I don't see him falling to us(Hawk ran a slower 40 no?)

As for forgetting about odell not till the day he's cut

[Stripes]

As much as I love the guy on the field. I think it would be best for everyone here to just let the thought of ever seeing Thurman suit up for the Bengals go. He will NEVER suit up for them again. He has too many personal demons and has betrayed the coaches and personnel. Embrace Ahmad Brooks and pray Patrick WIllis drops in the draft.

Could be, but I won't believe it until either Marvin says it himself or Odell isn't participating in training camp. Everything I've seen so far this offseason suggests (to me) that he'll be back.

[Kirkendall]

No I ment a marvin 1 game type suspension like henry and oneal got.

You mean team imposed... gotcha.

[ChadJohnson-85]

I'd love to see Thurman come back as much as anyone here but I'd like to see him get his life straightened out before anything.

[Kazkal]

No I ment a marvin 1 game type suspension like henry and oneal got.

You mean team imposed... gotcha.

what ev lol.

I'd love to see Thurman come back as much as anyone here but I'd like to see him get his life straightened out before anything.

2 for 1 deal because thats only chance he has of playing again

[schweinhart]

As much as I love the guy on the field. I think it would be best for everyone here to just let the thought of ever seeing Thurman suit up for the Bengals go. He will NEVER suit up for them again. He has too many personal demons and has betrayed the coaches and personnel. Embrace Ahmad Brooks and pray Patrick WIllis drops in the draft.

Or Lawrence Timmons.

For what the Bengals really need to get out of a LB, I'd rather see them snatch Quincy Black in the 2nd and get what looks like either Revis or Houston in the 1st. Black solves a lot of problems that could still get worse if a team decides Landon is worth giving up a 3rd over the next month. They've got to have another nickel backer and more insurance on the weakside because all they really can count on there right now is Landon Johnson.

[Bobcat Bengal]

Patrick Willis is our ticket. Please fall, we have a spot waiting for you.

If the 40 he ran at 4.38 is even within 0.2 seconds of being correct, he doesn't fall that far. Although if he does by some chance, nail him.

eh....I'll pass on that.

[HoosierCat]

If Pollack returns any time soon (which nearly everyone seems to doubt including myself), I see him moving back to DE.

Looks like that's the plan. Per Curnutte's blog, Marvin said:

David Pollack continues to make progress and has said he wants to play football again and sees his return most probable as a defensive end instead of a linebacker.

[jditty47]

i just dont see pollack as a DE anymore. i think if he makes it in the NFL it will have to be at LB in todays age and especially on the bengals.