Walrus Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Something I haven't heard much discussion about. Pretty interesting, and perhaps a bit reassuring to those of us watching in dismay the exodus of some good players in Free Agency. (apologies if this has already been posted somewhere)Sporting News article by Dan Pompei Want to win a championship? Stockpile comp picksPosted: March 6, 2007Go ahead, sign my free-agent linebacker. The running back, too. Pay them outrageous contracts and then make sure they put up big numbers next season. And, no, we're not interested in playing the free-agent game and bringing in another team's discards. We'll stand pat. If these statements came from an NFL front office, the team in question might face boycotts, riots and even the wraths of NFL experts ranging from Rush Limbaugh to Willie Brown. Hidden in the statements, however, might be true genius. See, teams that lose free agents and don't replace them with other teams' free agents are awarded compensatory draft picks by the NFL. And though those picks are an afterthought in most analyses of how teams are built, comp picks might have a lot more to say about tomorrow's Super Bowls than free agents. Over the past 10 years, the teams that had the most compensatory picks were the Packers, Cowboys, Ravens, Rams, Eagles, Patriots, Bucs, Jaguars, Bears, Steelers and Titans. Only two of those 11 teams -- the Cowboys and Jaguars -- failed to reach the Super Bowl during that stretch. In the same time frame, the teams with the fewest compensatory picks were the Browns, Texans, Jets, Bengals, Panthers, Falcons, Redskins, Chargers, Colts and Saints. Only two of those teams -- the Panthers and Colts -- played in a Super Bowl in that period. Coincidence? I think not. Compensatory picks are awarded to teams that lose more unrestricted free agents than they sign (players who are cut do not factor into the equation). The highest selection a team can get as compensation is a pick at the end of the third round. The formula by which comp picks are awarded is a more closely guarded secret than the recipe for the Colonel's greasy chicken. Even NFL teams don't know it. But the picks are determined by the difference of the contracts signed by the players lost and the players acquired, as well as by the performances of the players. At least part of the formula is subjective. No team has played the compensatory pick game better than the Ravens. They have allowed some fine players to leave as free agents -- including linebacker Ed Hartwell, running back Chester Taylor, cornerback Gary Baxter, defensive tackle Maake Kemoeatu, end Anthony Weaver, safety Will Demps, center Jeff Mitchell and corner Duane Starks. But with compensatory picks, they have drafted Taylor, fullback Ovie Mughelli, offensive tackle Tony Pashos and guard Edwin Mulitalo, among others. The Patriots also have hit the compensatory jackpot by using bonus picks to take quarterback Tom Brady, guard Nick Kaczur and fullback Patrick Pass. The compensatory pick system rewards teams that draft well and avoid looking for a quick fix. They select a player who becomes a starter. They lose him as a free agent and he gets a lucrative contract, so they are rewarded with a prime compensatory pick. Then they have a chance to draft a player of commensurate abilities who takes up less salary cap space. "The key is not to panic and have faith in the process," says Eric DeCosta, the Ravens' director of college scouting. "Where you get in trouble is when you lose free agents and try to compensate by signing other free agents. The comp picks often have more value than the free agents you could sign." The Patriots probably will come out ahead by allowing tight end Daniel Graham to leave as a free agent and getting a third-round compensatory pick in 2008 in return (assuming they don't sign a high-priced free agent from another team). Having 11 picks instead of seven gives the draft room a different hue. It's a lot easier to talk yourself out of reaching for a player in the third round when you know you have two fourth-round picks to play with. With comp picks, teams might be more willing to gamble on a workout wonder, as the Ravens did with cornerback Derrick Martin last year; or select a specialty player, as the Chiefs did with punter Dustin Colquitt two years ago; or even a luxury quarterback, as the Packers did with Aaron Brooks in 1999. Compensatory picks open up a world of possibilities. Even though they can't be traded, they clear avenues for other trades, both within the draft and outside of it. One reason the Ravens felt comfortable trading a sixth-round pick to move up in the first round to select defensive tackle Haloti Ngata last year is they had four comp picks in their arsenal. Three months later, the Ravens were unconcerned about parting with a fourth-round pick to acquire quarterback Steve McNair from the Titans because they anticipated receiving a fourth-round compensatory pick for the loss of Kemoeatu to the Panthers. The Ravens and other teams are expected to find out in the last week of March what comp picks have been awarded for the 2007 draft. The announcement won't get much attention. But it probably should, given that the road to the Super Bowl is often lined with compensatory picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 We should get at least a 4th rounder and probably a 3rd next year for Steinbach. I'm hoping for a 5th rounder this season for Kitna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Geoff passed a comment earlier in the year about not expecting anything for Kit (we did sign Dex and he did OK, so that may offset). We ought to get something for the combined Steinbach+Simmons+whoever else losses. A 4th at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePong Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Geoff passed a comment earlier in the year about not expecting anything for Kit (we did sign Dex and he did OK, so that may offset). We ought to get something for the combined Steinbach+Simmons+whoever else losses. A 4th at least.Simmons wasn't a free agent. He was cut. We don't get anything for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted March 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Geoff passed a comment earlier in the year about not expecting anything for Kit (we did sign Dex and he did OK, so that may offset). We ought to get something for the combined Steinbach+Simmons+whoever else losses. A 4th at least.Simmons wasn't a free agent. He was cut. We don't get anything for that.I don't know if that's how it works. According to SI, Brian Simmons was an unrestricted free agenthttp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...ansactions.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Actually, I think Pong is right. In any event, even if he isn't, he's right so infrequently he deserves a nod now and then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Ya he was a UFA when we cut him...but you don't get rewarded for players you cut only ones who hit the market.We should do ok since were not signing anyone and steinbach got a super deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted March 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Ya he was a UFA when we cut him...but you don't get rewarded for players you cut only ones who hit the market.We should do ok since were not signing anyone and steinbach got a super deal.Think we'll get anything for K. Washington, Tony Stewart and K2? Not to mention Anthony Wright, Marcus Wilkins, Rashad Bauman and Anthony Mitchell? We're losing some decent depth. 1 starter and at least 2 guys who will probably start part time on other teams this year. Should net us several picks in '08, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 On that note..Packers | James visitsFri, 9 Mar 2007 12:39:57 -0800Pete Dougherty, of the Green Bay Press-Gazette, reports the Green Bay Packers met with unrestricted free-agent CB Tory James (Bengals) Thursday, March 8.Here's hoping Tory signs on and has a kick a$$ year so we get a comp pick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 On that note..Packers | James visitsFri, 9 Mar 2007 12:39:57 -0800Pete Dougherty, of the Green Bay Press-Gazette, reports the Green Bay Packers met with unrestricted free-agent CB Tory James (Bengals) Thursday, March 8.Here's hoping Tory signs on and has a kick a$$ year so we get a comp pick! You mean "ass kicked?"Going to GB could be good since their secondary is so bad, he might start where he might elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentjett Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 Steinbach will be a impact starter, Stewart looks like he'll be the starter in Oakland, Shaun Smith is going to start in Cleveland, Washington looks to hook up as a third WR somewhere and possibly move up to a 2, 2K looks like he will be p/u as a starter, and Tory could be p/u as a safety or a nickelback. How many picks can you pick up in 1 year, we should p/u a bunch. Steinbach will give us a third all by himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 Ya he was a UFA when we cut him...but you don't get rewarded for players you cut only ones who hit the market.We should do ok since were not signing anyone and steinbach got a super deal.Think we'll get anything for K. Washington, Tony Stewart and K2? Not to mention Anthony Wright, Marcus Wilkins, Rashad Bauman and Anthony Mitchell? We're losing some decent depth. 1 starter and at least 2 guys who will probably start part time on other teams this year. Should net us several picks in '08, no?Heard was max of 4 players can be counted....you guys seem to be overvalueing our trash really only chance we have getting something besides a 7th next year is steinbach...lets hope he plays 16 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted March 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 Ya he was a UFA when we cut him...but you don't get rewarded for players you cut only ones who hit the market.We should do ok since were not signing anyone and steinbach got a super deal.Think we'll get anything for K. Washington, Tony Stewart and K2? Not to mention Anthony Wright, Marcus Wilkins, Rashad Bauman and Anthony Mitchell? We're losing some decent depth. 1 starter and at least 2 guys who will probably start part time on other teams this year. Should net us several picks in '08, no?Heard was max of 4 players can be counted....you guys seem to be overvalueing our trash really only chance we have getting something besides a 7th next year is steinbach...lets hope he plays 16 games.Hey, what can I say. I'm a fan -- it's practically my job to think a bit too highly of all Bengal players. Anyways, I'm just trying to find out more info about how picks are rewarded. Are picks rewarded 1-1 (ie, lose 1 player, get 1 pick) or is the loss of 4-5 backups worthy of 1-2 comp picks? Do you get picks only for departing players who you originally drafted or can you get picks for guys signed as free agents? I know this is a "17-herbs-and-spices"-level secret, but I was just curious to hear folks share their ignorance on the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPW Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Heard was max of 4 players can be counted....you guys seem to be overvalueing our trash really only chance we have getting something besides a 7th next year is steinbach...lets hope he plays 16 games.Yea a max of four is what I have heard to but I am not so sure about the overvaluing our trash thing.From what I understand the main consideration (by far) is the size of the contract the free agent signs with only minor adjustments for playing time and post season awards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 There's no reason the Bengals' shouldn't get a 3rd round pick for Steinbach, considering his contract and the fact he was a starter here and will be in Cleveland, if you read the original article, combined with the fact the Bengals' have basically signed no one.If the Pats get that for Graham, ecspecially after all of their FA signings, why wouldn't the Bengals' get at least that for Steinbach and the host of others they've lost? I suspect the Bengals' will have quite a few draft picks next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 I agree. We lost Steinbach(3rd?), Wilkins(7th?), Steward(7th?), probably S Smith(7th?), KK(5th?), James(?), & maybe A Wright(6th?). We signed none. It could add up to as much as 3rd,5th, 5th, & 7th round choices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroomytunes Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Well with us virtually signing no one in FA, we are almost certain to acquire 4 comp picks in next years draft. I think it will play out like this:Steinbach-3rd roundWilkins,Stewart,-7th roundKK,Wright,Smith-5th roundSo with a 3rd,5th, and 2 7th's, we are poised to add alot of depth to next years roster. That's why this years draft is going to be so important that we get the right player's on DEFENSE! We must focus on rebuilding the secondary and LB corps in this draft. If we dont then we failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted March 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 Well with us virtually signing no one in FA, we are almost certain to acquire 4 comp picks in next years draft. I think it will play out like this:Steinbach-3rd roundWilkins,Stewart,-7th roundKK,Wright,Smith-5th roundSo with a 3rd,5th, and 2 7th's, we are poised to add alot of depth to next years roster. That's why this years draft is going to be so important that we get the right player's on DEFENSE! We must focus on rebuilding the secondary and LB corps in this draft. If we dont then we failed.OK, correllary question: under the assumption that they will be receiving 4 compensatory draft picks in '08, will the Bengals wheel and deal a bit more with other teams in the '07 draft (ie, trading future draft picks to move up and grab a guy they want or, perhaps, to help pick up a 3rd rounder this year)?I'm not saying I necessarily think this is the way to go, but is it a possibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 Well with us virtually signing no one in FA, we are almost certain to acquire 4 comp picks in next years draft. I think it will play out like this:Steinbach-3rd roundWilkins,Stewart,-7th roundKK,Wright,Smith-5th roundSo with a 3rd,5th, and 2 7th's, we are poised to add alot of depth to next years roster. That's why this years draft is going to be so important that we get the right player's on DEFENSE! We must focus on rebuilding the secondary and LB corps in this draft. If we dont then we failed.OK, correllary question: under the assumption that they will be receiving 4 compensatory draft picks in '08, will the Bengals wheel and deal a bit more with other teams in the '07 draft (ie, trading future draft picks to move up and grab a guy they want or, perhaps, to help pick up a 3rd rounder this year)?I'm not saying I necessarily think this is the way to go, but is it a possibility?We don't have those future draft picks yet. It's pretty hard to trade what you might get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 One aside: compensatory picks cannot be traded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 One aside: compensatory picks cannot be tradedHe might have been thinking about trading next years picks for this years picks, since we are expecting to have extra next year... but that's a pretty big risk considering we haven't been awarded an compensatory picks yet. It's not written in stone that we'll get 4, or what round they will be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted March 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 One aside: compensatory picks cannot be tradedHe might have been thinking about trading next years picks for this years picks, since we are expecting to have extra next year... but that's a pretty big risk considering we haven't been awarded an compensatory picks yet. It's not written in stone that we'll get 4, or what round they will be in.That's what I meant. Sorry I didn't make it clearer. Yeah, it's risky, but I wonder if they would allow themselves to take likely future compensatory draft picks into consideration when trying to decide whether deal future "real" draft picks to trade up and get a player...The more I think about it, though, it does seem way too risky for this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Geoff passed a comment earlier in the year about not expecting anything for Kit (we did sign Dex and he did OK, so that may offset)I agree that Dexter had a good year. Our defense was significantly better when he was in the game. However, he missed all or most of 5 games, and his stats are far from elite. He only had 1 INT, 1 sack, 3 passes defensed... and barely ranked in the top 100 DB's in tackles.Kitna was 4th in the NFL in passing yards and was 17th in the league in passer rating. His TD/INT ratio was nothing to brag about (actually it was in the negative)... but for a free agent QB that the Bengals lost, his numbers were certainly good enough to get some sort of pick. If we don't get something for him, I don't think I'll be able to figure out how they assess the whole comp pick thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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