Stop all the bitching bout the D and FA's

[HoosierCat]

What Killer FA have the Steelers ever signed?

Kimo?

[Whur CHad At?]

Are we the Steelers, no. Do we have a good defense? No. And they did sign James Farrior.

[Kazkal]

What Killer FA have the Steelers ever signed?

Kimo?

Rofl killer too "smacks head"

[James_Brooks21]

Are we the Steelers, no. Do we have a good defense? No. And they did sign James Farrior.

We damn sure or not the Steelers the Steelers have a history of bring in stud guys through the draft, we have absolutely no history of brining in stud guys in the draft in the last 20 years. If we drafted as good as the Steelers draft defensive players I don't think there would be as nearly as many people sitting here complaining. We are a lot closer to the Browns then Steelers when you are talking about drafting good players on the defensive side of the ball. Drafting hidden gems on offense sounds more like us, we have that locked down.

[Kazkal]

Takeo spikes wasen't a stud ?

[Thurmanation]

One day Spor Tees was walking in the woods when --

KERPLUNK -- an acorn fell on her head "Oh my goodness!"

said Spor Tees. "The sky is falling! I must go and tell the

Mikey."

On her way to the Mikey's palace, Spor Tees met BTG.

BTG said that she was going into the woods to hunt for

worms.

"Oh no, don't go!" said Spor Tees. "I was there and the sky

fell on my head! Come with me to tell the king."

So BTG joined Spor Tees and they went along and

went along as fast as they could.

Soon they met ShulaSteakhouse who said, "I'm going to the woods

to hunt for seeds."

"Oh no, don't go!" said BTG. "The sky is falling there!

Come with us to tell the Mikey."

So Cocky ShulaSteakhouse,BTG and Spor Tees and they

went along and went along as fast as they could.

Soon they met Whur CHad At?, who was planning to go to the

woods to look for berries.

"Oh no, don't go!" said ShulaSteakhouse. "The sky is falling there!

Come with us to tell the king." So Whur Chad at? joined

ShulaSteakhouse, BTG and Spor Tees, and they

went along as fast as they could.

Then who should appear on the path but sly old Haironfire.

"Where are you going, my fine feathered friends?" asked Haironfire.

He spoke in a polite manner, so as not to frighten them.

"The sky is falling!" cried Spor Tees. "We must tell the

Mikey."

"I know a shortcut to the palace," said Haironfire sweetly.

"Come and follow me."

But wicked Haironfire did not lead the others to the palace.

He led them right up to the entrance of his foxhole. Once they

were inside, Haironfire was planning to gobble them up!

Just as Spor Tees and the others were about to go into the

fox's hole, they heard a strange sound and stopped.

It was the king's hunting dogs, growling and howling.

How Haironfire ran, across the meadows and through the forests,

with the hounds close behind. He ran until he was far, far away

and never dared to come back again.

After that day, Spor Tees always carried an umbrella with

her when she walked in the woods. The umbrella was a present

from the king. And if -- KERPLUNK -- an acorn fell, Spor tees

didn't mind a bit. In fact, she didn't notice it at all.

As the days go by of me being on this forum i see Kaz becoming more insane by the post.

[hrod382]

Marvin has given Cincy one winning season in 4 years...how long does he need to "do his thing?" One of your largest arguments is the arrests and "personal" issues. Well Marvin has to be held accountable for those also. He was in fact one of the people who pulled the trigger, so to speak, to bring those guys in. Checking into a players personality and history is part of evaluating talent, and so far I would have to give Marvin a failing grade. You can go out and point to guys that have succeeded, but don't use Carson Palmer in that argument. Carson was a no-brainer. The second round pick of that draft, Steinbeck is no longer a Bengal, so you can't use him either. So tell me who the best draft pick is that Marvin drafted?

Do you not get the trend of MIKE BROWN taking guys with character concerns? Seriously, remember when the only real threats on our offense were Darnay/Pickens/Dillon? You know why we got them? Because Mike Browns theory of giving guys a second chance, they all had character question marks. Before last years draft Marvin said he wanted to avoid guys like that, Mike Brown has admitted that he was the one pulling the trigger. Hue Jackson was the one begging for Chris Henry. Don't be misled... Mike Brown still runs the show despite being out of the public eye.

Steinbach/Deltha/Askew/Joseph/McNeal had no problems before becoming a Bengal. Henry's concerns were just on field. Hindsight is 20/20, no one was bitching about Odell being a risk when he helped take us to the playoffs. Rarely does a player talk out in the media (see the Giants locker room), rarely do players miss team meetings (Rudi and Odell are the only ones I know of, they got sat for it). To be honest I just think our police around here don't let them off the hook like other cities (I'm only halfway joking too, you can't tell me there's no chance a cop has let a Steeler off the hook before).

Keiwan Ratliff is the only early draft pick Marvin has made that has struggled without injury or off field problems. Weathersby and Washington were worth the risks, Pollack was unfortunate. Peko was the 2nd best rookie DT last year, Madieu was a "reach", that one sure worked out. Joseph will be a top 5 corner before long, Stacy Andrews is the future at RG. Marvin brought in Tory James who had a few good seasons before age kicked in, Deltha was a great trade.. He also brought in Bobbie Williams.

[NJ29]

I see no reason why we shouldn't bitch. This defense isn't going to be miraculously improved without a change in personnel. I'm all for the building through the draft thing, and I honestly hope we let Caleb go so we can get a third rounder. You can say we should stay calm, but we aren't improving, and the teams around us are.

You can say, "oh, it's the Browns, they're terrible, we don't have to worry about them." But they are improving rapidly, and we are staying the same. I know they have cap space, but what is all of our cap spent on? I know Levi, Carson and Willie have huge deals, but there has to be someone in there that we can cut. I would honestly rather have the almost 9 mil in cap space that Justin's franchise tag takes up than him. I don't think we're getting anything out or Thornton, so he needs to be cut for the money. I don't see the rationale of cutting Simmons but keep Thornton.

[HoosierCat]

A microcosm of FA to date, courtesy of the Dayton Daily News, which covers both the Browns and Bengals:

Their lead story for the Cleveland Browns? "Steinbach Now a Brown"

Their lead story for the Bengals? "Bengals' dietitian an important part of the team"

Who-freakin'-dey, eh?

[Kirkendall]

A thread about how people whining about whiners is the most annoying habit there is

I'd vote for people not using real names but playing tough guy against other people that don't use their real name. s**t, I just insulted everyone. Peace?

Yet their defense continues to get worse

Well, to be fair, the Bengals defense was 17th in points allowed -- best since 2001. They were 32nd in 2002, then Marvin came in and went 28th, 21st, 2nd, and 17th -- so contrary to popular belief, they are improving. Added to fairness, the Bengals offense, at times, failed to pick up the defense. EDIT: Didn't see TDB's post until after.

I haven't heard of any Bengals fans being happy with mediocrity since 2003 when it was something new.

You'd be wrong. Most fans, when defending the team from other fans that expect more, always start with how bad it used to be.

Caller #1: The Bengals are doing nothing to improve.

Caller #2: Well, at least we're better than we used to be.

Touché.

Peko was the 2nd best rookie DT last year, Madieu was a "reach", that one sure worked out. Joseph will be a top 5 corner before long, Stacy Andrews is the future at RG. Marvin brought in Tory James who had a few good seasons before age kicked in, Deltha was a great trade.. He also brought in Bobbie Williams.

You make good points, but let's see it first. Peko, while potential, was just as often pushed backwards as he was dicing through the line. Yes, he's a rookie. But that's no excuse. Also, he didn't handle double teams well. I know there's a counter-argument with Peko being a rookie... so like I said, let's see it.

I agree about JJ, but not Andrews. If anything, I think Andrews will either be groomed to replace Anderson whenever god retires. And Williams is here until after 2008 -- which is enough time to start thinking about a guard to draft. Ultimately, for right now, Andrews, I believe, is another Kooistra where he can play a few positions when needed... and do it well.

I also agree about James and O'Neal. Both won a Pro Bowl while playing here. That alone should be considered a sufficient success in hindsight.

[rwalling]

Nice Kaz you peice of s**t o_0

[HairOnFire]

I haven't heard of any Bengals fans being happy with mediocrity since 2003 when it was something new.

You'd be wrong. Most fans, when defending the team from other fans that expect more, always start with how bad it used to be.

Caller #1: The Bengals are doing nothing to improve.

Caller #2: Well, at least we're better than we used to be.

Touché.

[schweinhart]

I suspect the Bengals are trying to get back to that breakthrough 2005 season and trying to lure Ifeanyi Ohalete out of retirement.

The main problem the Bengals face on defense right now is bodies but not so many that they can't get what they need out of the draft and the stop gaps that will be left at the bottom of the free agency barrell. That looks like it'll have to be enough.

So far so good on the Bengals restricted LBs and if both Miller and Landon stay, all the Bengals are losing is B-Simms, K2 and James. Won't be hard to replace them.

Based on accounts of the Bengals cap situation, there was no realistic expectation that they would spend big for the few big time defenders who didn't get tagged or pay a king's ransom for the 2nd tier types.

[SkinneymulleT]

A microcosm of FA to date, courtesy of the Dayton Daily News, which covers both the Browns and Bengals:

Their lead story for the Cleveland Browns? "Steinbach Now a Brown"

Their lead story for the Bengals? "Bengals' dietitian an important part of the team"

Who-freakin'-dey, eh?

HAHAHAHA! That is truly a sign of the times!

[Stripes]

A microcosm of FA to date, courtesy of the Dayton Daily News, which covers both the Browns and Bengals:

Their lead story for the Cleveland Browns? "Steinbach Now a Brown"

Their lead story for the Bengals? "Bengals' dietitian an important part of the team"

Who-freakin'-dey, eh?

When the Bengals aren't making moves akin to those in Cleveland, then yes... Who dey!

[BTG]

"Browns sign Steinbach...Bengals eat Skyline. This and your local weather at 11."

[derekshank]

No... by all means. Let's imitate what the Browns do. After all, it was their willingness to sign Bentley, Jurevicius, McGinist, Shaffer, Washington and Zastudil that led to their playoff run last year. Wait... they were worse last year than before all the signings.

I'm not saying that I would hate it if the Bengals got some decent free agents... but the fact is that the teams that pursue top-tier free agents year after year are perrenial losers. That should communicate something.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

No... by all means. Let's imitate what the Browns do. After all, it was their willingness to sign Bentley, Jurevicius, McGinist, Shaffer, Washington and Zastudil that led to their playoff run last year. Wait... they were worse last year than before all the signings.

I'm not saying that I would hate it if the Bengals got some decent free agents... but the fact is that the teams that pursue top-tier free agents year after year are perrenial losers. That should communicate something.

I love this reasoning - nothing to back it up but bad examples in Washington and (for now) Cleveland. What about New Orleans? The Patriots? The Colts? The Bears? All of them have gone after a healthy amount of FA's. I seem to remember them all being in the playoffs too. Same with the Chargers (McCardell, Goff, others).

The fact is Cleveland and Washington have no QB's, no healthy, top tier Rb's, or WR's etc...,

The Bengals DO. They are in a position where a top FA or two and a good draft could put them over the hump for the first time in 17 years.

As Daughtery wrote this morning in his blog - how exactly are the Bengals' improved from last year?

Two of their best, most experienced blockers may be possible gone on the 0-line (one is), and they have no one to replace them with.

Their most consistent and experienced LB is gone, and there's nothing but ? marks behind him.

So I guess I'm supposed to have "faith" in a team that has had one fluke winning season in the last 16 years?

Gimme a break, I'm not that stupid or naive.

[BTG]

Yea, that's the most frustrating thing. People who are against people talking about bringing in a free agent or two are under the misguided assumption that we want the Bengals to pull a Reskins move and sign four or five free agents.

That is simply not true. I'd be happy with one or two role players to fill out the roster (someone like a Rod Hood or an Ian Scott) who could be signed for a reasonable price...as long as we brought in one player who could have an impact by himself. Whether that's Porter, Ken Hamlin, or whomever else Marvin feels would be the right fit, that's fine with me, but we need that player. Personally I really want to see Hamlin in Bengal orange. He's in his mid 20s, he's fast, he tackles well, and he and Madieu would turn the safety postion into a team strength for the next seven years or so.

For those of you who say, "Yea, but it would cost something like four to four and a half million a year with a 10 mil bonus to get Hamlin," I say the following: So f*cking what?

John "no impact" Thornton is due 4.375 mil this season and 4.625 mil next season. Cut his fat ass. There's no reason for us to be shelling out nine million dollars over the next two seasons for John friggin' Thornton.

Hell, this season alone, the Bengals will be paying him and Bryan Robinson about 6.6 million dollars combined. Wouldn't you rather have one really good player on the defense over two average ones? To look at it in a different way, would you rather sleep with Angelina Jolie, or Starr Jones and Barbara Walters at the same time?

The point is, I just want someone on our defense who would give the team an identity -- an established player who woulc step in that a young defense could build around. I mean if you bring in Hamlin (or even Porter if Marvin feels he'll fit in a 4-3), you could build the defense around him, Madieu, Ahmad Brooks, Odell (if he returns) J.J., and whichever defensive player they take with the 18th pick. But I suppose that would make too much sense, right?

[HairOnFire]

As Daughtery wrote this morning in his blog - how exactly are the Bengals' improved from last year?

They improve by getting healthy. To be fair, fans like you keep proclaiming that you don't care one bit about player injuries, but who besides yourself would willingly embrace ignorance of important factors when planning for the future? Simply put, with a little better health last year the season may not have been lost.

[SkinneymulleT]

As Daughtery wrote this morning in his blog - how exactly are the Bengals' improved from last year?

They improve by getting healthy. To be fair, fans like you keep proclaiming that you don't care one bit about player injuries, but who besides yourself would willingly embrace ignorance of important factors when planning for the future? Simply put, with a little better health last year the season may not have been lost.

Its even less than that. A few bad calls by the refs and a few by our own coordinators changed our season from div champs to 8-8 chumps. That seems to be quickly forgotten, that we were there even with our patch work lineup and Carson's early recovery issues !

[Stripes]

So I guess I'm supposed to have "faith" in a team that has had one fluke winning season in the last 16 years?

Yeah, it was such a fluke that every Bengals fan saw it coming.

Even you of all people have labeled the Bengals as one of more talented teams in the league. Now you're just looking for negativity to latch onto.

Gimme a break, I'm not that stupid or naive.

To believe what you type.

Yea, that's the most frustrating thing. People who are against people talking about bringing in a free agent or two are under the misguided assumption that we want the Bengals to pull a Reskins move and sign four or five free agents.

While I know nobody wants to follow the Dan Snyder model, the desire to overspend on any one (or more) player implies a mistake. In this year's market especially, that is unavoidable this early in the game.

That is simply not true. I'd be happy with one or two role players to fill out the roster (someone like a Rod Hood or an Ian Scott) who could be signed for a reasonable price...as long as we brought in one player who could have an impact by himself. Whether that's Porter, Ken Hamlin, or whomever else Marvin feels would be the right fit, that's fine with me, but we need that player. Personally I really want to see Hamlin in Bengal orange. He's in his mid 20s, he's fast, he tackles well, and he and Madieu would turn the safety postion into a team strength for the next seven years or so.

For those of you who say, "Yea, but it would cost something like four to four and a half million a year with a 10 mil bonus to get Hamlin," I say the following: So f*cking what?

I don't disagree too much here. I'd love for the Bengals to pursue Rod Hood. If his asking price does get as high as some of these other signings we've seen, then I'll change my mind.

John "no impact" Thornton is due 4.375 mil this season and 4.625 mil next season. Cut his fat ass. There's no reason for us to be shelling out nine million dollars over the next two seasons for John friggin' Thornton.

Hell, this season alone, the Bengals will be paying him and Bryan Robinson about 6.6 million dollars combined. Wouldn't you rather have one really good player on the defense over two average ones? To look at it in a different way, would you rather sleep with Angelina Jolie, or Starr Jones and Barbara Walters at the same time?

Thornton is definitely paid too much, but the Bengals would leave the line without any depth to cut him. Peko and S. Smith are the only other two, and we'd be forced to pursue yet another defensive position as early in the draft as possible. I wouldn't object to cutting Robinson.

The point is, I just want someone on our defense who would give the team an identity -- an established player who woulc step in that a young defense could build around. I mean if you bring in Hamlin (or even Porter if Marvin feels he'll fit in a 4-3), you could build the defense around him, Madieu, Ahmad Brooks, Odell (if he returns) J.J., and whichever defensive player they take with the 18th pick. But I suppose that would make too much sense, right?

Everyone wants that, but some don't like the cost at which it will come. I don't think Marvin gets enough credit for his work in the draft, and I'm fine with pursuing those impact players there.

[BTG]

TDB, you have to be the best forum moderator I've ever encountered. You don't get all pissy when people disagree with you, and 99% of the time, you actually have something to say that's worth reading.

[Whur CHad At?]

TDB is also secrelty Hobson...lol

[Stripes]

TDB, you have to be the best forum moderator I've ever encountered. You don't get all pissy when people disagree with you, and 99% of the time, you actually have something to say that's worth reading.

Thank ya. Just following the lead of the other mods here.

TDB is also secrelty Hobson...lol

No, Hobson is TDB.