First thing to do this Offseaon

[rwjcgc]

Sadly Pollack is done. He'd be crazy to literally risk his neck to play.

One can only wish him the best in his future endeavors. Football can be a cruel game.

Thurman should be brought back on a short leash. I hope he has learned his lesson and can become a responsible member of the team and community.

I thought Landon had an excellent season. Didn't he have 120+ tackles? I mean, yeah he's no Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher, but I don't understand why he has to be a career special teamer?

Reason: Too many tackles are after large gains. He's not the disrupting force that is needed at the position to become a top tier defense.

[Stripes]

I'm sorry, but it's not about consistency and energy, it's about talent.

It's not about any one of those factors alone, it is a combination of them. I'll grant talent is the most important factor, but the question is which factor the Bengals lack most. If you think it's talent, you've certainly ample support for that statement. I don't agree with it, but there isn't much I can say to change your mind until the Bengals prove it themselves.

That's about it. We just aren't going to be able to agree on this one. I hope you're right, because it would be much easier to fix, but I'm not holding out much hope. The big question marks, of course, are Thurman and Pollack. If either of them can get back, we could hope for an injection of talent and everything else. But they both remain big "ifs".

Big ifs indeed. I have more hope for Pollack's return than Thurman's at this point, but neither looks very likely. My hopes for the future rest a lot on Ahmad Brooks, though he seems to carry the same disastrous risk that Thurman did.

[rwjcgc]

I don't see how Cincy can afford to cut ties w/ Thurman at this point. They have already eaten the flak for his past problems.

If they bring him back and he backslides and they cut him, then they don't lose face. If they cut him loose now and he turns into a good player, the image problem (and loss of a player) only intensifies. Am I missing something?

[jjakq27]

I think it might be a matter of principle to Marvin and the Brown family.

I would like Marvin to act like he just took over the team four years ago. No freinds, no living on past performance, no nothing. He needs to question everything from the stars to the scrubs and the entire coaching staff. Everyone needs to re-earn their spot on the team. Because this year's results didn't cut it.

If Chad has become a burden, I say trade him now. If other guys are bitchers and complainers, maybe they need to go now too.

[HoosierCat]

I don't see how Cincy can afford to cut ties w/ Thurman at this point. They have already eaten the flak for his past problems.

If they bring him back and he backslides and they cut him, then they don't lose face. If they cut him loose now and he turns into a good player, the image problem (and loss of a player) only intensifies. Am I missing something?

That he is just one strike away from being kicked out of the league. He's used up all his chits. One more DUI or drug bust and he'll be looking for work in the arena league. It's tough to try to build a defense around a guy who could be gone at any moment.

[HoosierCat]

An early look at the topline stats for 2006 vs. 2005:

The 2005 Bengals scored 421 while allowing 350. The 2006 Bengals actually allowed fewer points, 331, but also scored fewer, 373.

The 2006 Bengals run defense was, contrary to popular belief, not better in aggregate than 2005's. The '05 Bengals allowed 1,850 rushing yards on 429 attempts. The '06 squad gave up 1,861 on 447 attempts.

Our pass defense was markedly worse, giving up 3,823 yards this season versus 3,569 last year. Overall, the 2006 Bengals gave up 5,684 yards, compred to the 2005 Bengals' 5,419.

Offensively, it was the running game that failed Cincy in 2006. The 2005 Bengals rushed for 1,910 yards; the 2006 Bengals got just 1,629. Passing yards were about equal, 4,066 this year versus 3,935 in 2005. Overall, the Bengals offense generated 150 fewer yards this season than in 2005.

The other key stat: turnovers. In 2005, the Bengals had 44 takeaways versus 20 fumbles/INTs. This year, we had 31 takeaways, and 24 giveaways.

[HoTbOy]

FIRE CHUCK, say bye-bye to TJames, SAdams someone said he had a fine year, he always seemed to be out there out of breath to me if they were not running up the middle towards him...Get another RB, If we had a threat at RB, CPalmer would not have to do so much...Be a player in FA, and get 1 player at least on D WHO WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE a tier 1 FA and not these 2nd and 3rd tier FA's...FIRE CHUCK...

[jjakq27]

I'll give Billick credit for dumpng Fassel, even if he was his friend. I hope Marvin is able to get past any friendships or allegiences and make the right moves in the next week or two. Maybe he needs to look into calling the defense and letting someone else manage the clock, timeouts, etc. during the game.

[Kazkal]

Enough with over aged lineman who can't rush a sleeping bag. Get D. Freeney in here!

FREENEY WILL SAVE OUR DEFENSE!!!! JUST LIKE HE SAVES THE COLTS DEFENSE!!! OMG MY CAPSLOCK KEY IS BROKEN....I'll pass on freeney the colts can keep him

Fanene? Why is he still here?

WOW HC sure giving our 7th round project pick alot of hate after his 2nd season and what his 3rd game? : P

[Kazkal]

ig ifs indeed. I have more hope for Pollack's return than Thurman's at this point, but neither looks very likely. My hopes for the future rest a lot on Ahmad Brooks, though he seems to carry the same disastrous risk that Thurman did.

why is it so unlikely when chris henry still plays for us

[Stripes]

ig ifs indeed. I have more hope for Pollack's return than Thurman's at this point, but neither looks very likely. My hopes for the future rest a lot on Ahmad Brooks, though he seems to carry the same disastrous risk that Thurman did.

why is it so unlikely when chris henry still plays for us

Henry is still a rung behind Odell on the suspension ladder.

[tc81190]

I think we have plenty of talent on defense,

Where?

Fat Sam? Done. B-flop? Done. Simmons? Done. Tory James? Don't make me laugh harder.

Thornton? Never was. Miller and Landon? Ditto. Dexter? Can't stay healthy. Fanene? Why is he still here?

Justin Smith? Yeah, there's one, and he'll be gone in March. Deltha? Apparently Marvin now no likey.

We have three or four promising young guys in Geathers, Joseph, Peko and Williams. Plus a couple average guys like Shaun Smith (who never gets played) and Jeanty.

It ain't Bresh's fault, any more than it was Leslie Frazier's. Not that it matters, Bresh will probably get poop-canned just like him. But until the Bengals get better players, it doesn't matter who they hire. Vince Lombardi could rise from the dead and not get better results with this bunch.

I definitely wouldn't say Sam Adams, Simmons, or Dexter are done, and you forgot Kaesviharn, but yeah that sounds right.

How sounds H.B. Blades in the draft?

[HoosierCat]

Fanene? Why is he still here?

WOW HC sure giving our 7th round project pick alot of hate after his 2nd season and what his 3rd game?

That's just it. Whatever happened to "I see better than I hear"? Fanene's got 7 tackles in his whole career. Our D got gashed for more than 200 yards on the ground yesterday. Why was Carl Plowed Jr. playing and Shaun Smith inactive? I thought we had gotten over this whole lightweight defensive line thing after it sucked donkey balls last season, but apparently not.

Not, of course, that Shaun is the second coming, either, but he's shown himself to be at least servicable at DT. Which brings us back around to my main point: outside of a couple players, "serviceable" might describe most of our defensive players (and for some it would be charitable description). Now -- if they can get Odell and Pollack and Rucker onto the field, that might change; Odell is clearly a stud and Pollack and Rucker have a ton of potential. But between injuries and off-field crapola, that's a huge question mark.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I'm all about firing Chuck, if it will help, because I'm sick of watching his stupid defense fold time and time again to the point of absurdity. If Marvin's the defensive problem ultimately, nothing we can do.

[walshfan]

Bres runs a defense that Lewis endorses....puppet boy.....blame Lewis for the ineptidude and soft play ..

Brat mixes things up nicely.. not his fault that our stud OT's are getting feeble in the knees ....Guycheck and Wilk arent the answer at center either..

Defensively this team has but a few quality players.. Peko needs to hit the weights harder, Joseph needs to catch balls from a jugs machine for hours at a time..

Lewis needs to gut the defense now.....

Keep Peko, Geathers and add to the line ..Rucker will replace Justin ..

Keep Jeanty, Miller, Johnson and hopefully Brooks can make a difference.. this unit needs a leader in the worst way... Is Nicholson going to do anything ??

Keep Deltha, J-Joe and get a stud corner in the draft..

Keep Williams and add another SS that is an enforcer...

To sum up .. get a DT, MLB, Corner and SS in here and fast!

[Spor_tees]

Bres runs a defense that Lewis endorses....puppet boy.....blame Lewis for the ineptidude and soft play ..

Brat mixes things up nicely.. not his fault that our stud OT's are getting feeble in the knees ....Guycheck and Wilk arent the answer at center either..

Defensively this team has but a few quality players.. Peko needs to hit the weights harder, Joseph needs to catch balls from a jugs machine for hours at a time..

Lewis needs to gut the defense now.....

Keep Peko, Geathers and add to the line ..Rucker will replace Justin ..

Keep Jeanty, Miller, Johnson and hopefully Brooks can make a difference.. this unit needs a leader in the worst way... Is Nicholson going to do anything ??

Keep Deltha, J-Joe and get a stud corner in the draft..

Keep Williams and add another SS that is an enforcer...

To sum up .. get a DT, MLB, Corner and SS in here and fast!

I've said this same thing in a couple of threads...maybe Lewis is calling the shots on the defense...and just using Bresh as a figurehead. He did bring in Bresh and get rid of Frazier because he thought that Bresh and himself had the same philosophies of how a defense should be run.

Like I said before, maybe Marvin isn't the defensive Guru that everyone thinks he is without Ray Lewis and the other guys he had with the Ravens. 4 Years and still no improvement on the defense. How many years will it take to improve the defense? They are still 4-5 players away from having a solid D. A true dominating pass rushing DE, a leader at the MLB position, another shut down corner, and a safety that can make for sure tackles, put fear in WR that come across the middle, and make that game changing play.

Maybe what the Bengals really need is a Defensive Coordinator that is able to come in and run his own system hands off by Marvin. Especially someone young and new that has new ideas and some enthusiasm for the game of football. If there is one thing this defense needs, it's some enthusiasm and emotion. The guys we have now just play flat and without desire. Out of all the guys I saw playing this year, the only guy that played with some heart was Ahmed Brooks when he was on the field. The guy actually went full out when he blitzed, and didn't look like he was a burglar trying to tiptoe into someone's house when coming across the line. I swear when some guys blitzed they looked like they were scared to get hit.

[schroomytunes]

Ok, here is what I do this offseason. The first move I make is fire Chuck Bresnahan, and look outside the organization for a replacement. His defensive scemes rely on turnovers and not on execution. We need sure fire tacklers and consistant pressure from the front 7.

Now who to retain from the current roster:

RFA's- who should get the low tender:

1)Stacy Andrews(G/T)-4th round pick as comp.

2)Landon Johnson(LB)-3rd round pick

3)Caleb Miller(LB)-3rd round pick

4) Chris Perry(RB)-1st round pick

5)Shaun Smith(Dt)-???

6)Kyle Larson(P)-no comp undrafted

RFA's to get higher tender:(1.2million)

1)Robert Geathers(DE)-1st round pick as comp.

UFA's to retain:

1)Reggie Kelly(TE)-good clubhouse guy. great blocker

2)Kenny Watson(RB)-good guy, great 3rd down back

3)Doug Johnson(QB)-knows the system has started good cheap 3rd option

4)Kevin Kaesviharn(S)-good guy to have in the secondary

5)Justin Smith(DE)-good run stopper, hard worker, needs help up front

6)Scott Kooistra(T)-good depth, not expensive

7)Marcus Wilkins(LB)-good special teams

Say Good bye to these guys:

1)Eric Steinbach-Too expensive to retain- Whitworth can replace

2)Anthony Wright-we need to draft a QB, to groom as a backup

3)Tory James-FA-too old and slow

4)John Thornton-not big enough in the middle, lacks push

5)Kelley Washington- too expensive to resign as 4-5 reciever

6)Bryon Robinson-too old not enough pressure

7)Tony Stewart- we can replace with college FA, much cheaper

8)Rich Braham-retired

9)David Pollack-probably will retire

My Free Agents to Pursue:

1)Robaire Smith(Dt)-has the size and strength to disrupt the middle.

2)Kevin Walter(WR)-ex bengal, good 5th reciever and special teamer.

3)Grey Ruegamer©-good solid backup, allows us more flexability at G/C position

4)Ron Edwards(Dt)-good size up the middle, and provides pressure

5)Na'il Diggs(OLB)-guy we need on the outside

6)Nate Clements(CB)-love to have but wont overpay-the draft has good ones.

The Draft:

-as always would love to trade down if the board allows, would love to regain a 3rd rounder we lost on Ahmad Brooks in the supplemental.

Needs:

LB/S/CB/DT/TE/backup QB

As always no need to speculate being so far away at this point.

[Kazkal]

4) Chris Perry(RB)-1st round pick

everyone thinks hes a RFA on bengals.com....hes signed till 2009 jeez.

2)Kevin Walter(WR)-ex bengal, good 5th reciever and special teamer.

Diden't texans sign him 3-5 years?

[Jonboat]

It ain't Bresh's fault, any more than it was Leslie Frazier's. Not that it matters, Bresh will probably get poop-canned just like him. But until the Bengals get better players, it doesn't matter who they hire. Vince Lombardi could rise from the dead and not get better results with this bunch.

[Bengalhead]

This team needs something on the inside. Some kinda heart transplant. They absolutely melt under pressure, time and time again for 4 years under Marvin they have wilted under pressure. It is disgusting.

Very true. All they had to do was win one of the last three games and they'd be in. But they have choked multiple times. With the talent that they have, there is no excuse for this team to not make the playoffs.

[Whur CHad At?]

Hobson reports that if Marvin finds another corner who can tackle, Deltha O'Neal may be gone in the offseason along with Tory James. I honestly think that is a good move, because Deltha is terribly overrated. Hobson also says that the Bengals are probably going to get a long term deal done with Robert Geathers instead of the 1 year tenure. Also look for Marvin to start making coaching changes within the next week or so.

[TJJackson]

I think they need to find another defensive star, even if they have to overpay.

They should be identifying that player now and working out the salary cap implications of that player's estimated contract, so that they can sign him on the firts day he is available.

Really doesn't matter what position. We need help at every defensive position.

[Whur CHad At?]

For once TJ I agree!! I am looking at Nate Clements

[AGrizzlyBaer]

a few tidbits

Mark Curnutte, Enquirer on my show at 5:05

"Justin Smith took his nameplate off his locker this afternoon"

"In talking with Eric S, I get the sense he thinks he's gone"

Brad Johanson, Bengals Line Monday night on WLW

"I got a sense a lot of guys checked out after the Colts game...didn't want to play Sunday and didn't even want to play another game after that. The damage from that game went way too deep for this team"

"I don't think Deltha O'Neal likes playing football. He doesn't like practicing...and he does'nt like playing. He's got a contract that makes him a football player. But he doesn't like football."

Dave Lapham, Bengals Line Monday

"The day after Christmas, I walked into PBS for the taping of our Bengals TV show, and the ONLY player around that morning was Justin Smith....working out in the weight room.

[HoosierCat]

a few tidbits

Mark Curnutte, Enquirer on my show at 5:05

"Justin Smith took his nameplate off his locker this afternoon"

"In talking with Eric S, I get the sense he thinks he's gone"

Brad Johanson, Bengals Line Monday night on WLW

"I got a sense a lot of guys checked out after the Colts game...didn't want to play Sunday and didn't even want to play another game after that. The damage from that game went way too deep for this team"

"I don't think Deltha O'Neal likes playing football. He doesn't like practicing...and he does'nt like playing. He's got a contract that makes him a football player. But he doesn't like football."

Dave Lapham, Bengals Line Monday

"The day after Christmas, I walked into PBS for the taping of our Bengals TV show, and the ONLY player around that morning was Justin Smith....working out in the weight room.

Good stuff, grizz. Thanks.