Ravens @ Bengals

[bengalsfan101]

Every weekend there is at least one big game to watch. This week, I think the Ravens-Bengals match-up will be that game. The Bengals have struggled out of the gate but the passing game seems to have caught fire of late. Both teams had tremendous defensive performances last week, posting shutouts. Who will win in this meeting of two AFC North rivals. The Bengals are down but not out and a win could move them closer to a potential playoff birth. Check out this piece which describes the game in more detail.

***Link deleted and poster banned due to spamming***

Edited November 29, 2006 by B24

[CJBestInAFC]

When did Jamal Lewis every return to form? He has had one game where he rushed for over 100 yards, and he had one game where he scored three tds giving him a total of 5 on the season. I think the writer is Jamal lover.

[Arizona]

Jamal has returned to form. He's running with the same physical form as he has in the past, body lean, pumping legs, physicality. The numbers haven't been huge, but they haven't needed to be. The offense is balanced, opposing defenses have to respect the run.

To say he hasn't is as silly as saying Palmer hasn't returned to form recently, which I will readily admit.

[Raven Rick]

Jamal will probably never equal his 2000+ rushing yds season. He has started to run the ball with some authority. His carries have eaten up a lot of clock time in recent games. I look for him to get 20-25 carries in this game. If the Ravens can manage 140 yds on the ground tommorrow night, that might be all they need. Mc Nairs been spreading the ball around pretty well... so, we'll see.

[derekshank]

If the Ravens can manage 140 yds on the ground tommorrow night, that might be all they need.

Well, I would hope that would be all they need. Considering that 140 is about 40 more yards than you are averaging and 25 yards more than we are allowing... yep, that should be enough. It's just not likely. The run defense for the Bengals has been pretty decent, and assuming you don't jump out to a quick 14 point lead in the first 5 minutes again (a fair assumption)... you won't get those kinds of yards.

[Raven Rick]

If the Ravens can manage 140 yds on the ground tommorrow night, that might be all they need.

Well, I would hope that would be all they need. Considering that 140 is about 40 more yards than you are averaging and 25 yards more than we are allowing... yep, that should be enough. It's just not likely. The run defense for the Bengals has been pretty decent, and assuming you don't jump out to a quick 14 point lead in the first 5 minutes again (a fair assumption)... you won't get those kinds of yards.

Yeah, I don't see the Ravens jumping out to a 14pt lead like last time. I'm just assuming that because of the weather conditions the ground game for the Ravens is going to be very important in terms of the Ravens pulling out a victory. The team has been improving in the ground game the past few weeks. They really haven't been piling up numbers but they have managed to eat up a lot of clock. Chris Chester and Jason Brown have been doing a pretty good job on the O line, and Ogden has been improving week to week, imo. I'd like to see the Ravens have enough sustained drives and put up enough points to stave of Palmers quick, potent ability to move the Bengals O up and down the field. The Ravens O keeping Palmer & co. off the field is just as important as the Ravens D playing well against him, imo.

[Stripes]

Offensively for the Ravens, I expect the game to progress similarly to the last meeting. The Bengals were able to contain Jamal fairly well, but McNair and Clayton ate them alive on third down. Unless Cincy can get more consistent pressure on McNair, which I doubt, it'll probably be more of the same.

The Bengals should be in a little better position this time around assuming they don't give up a big early lead like they did last time. Some teams have managed to pass the ball on the Ravens with some success, but they (Ravens) have forced turnovers to make up the difference. I think the Bengals will be able to move the ball effectively, but they have to take care of it.

[Ox]

One word.

Turnovers.

That is the key to beating the Ravens. Cinci doesn't turn the ball over, that's ballgame. They turn the ball over like last meeting, the Ravens make you pay.

[Walrus]

Chris Chester and Jason Brown have been doing a pretty good job on the O line, and Ogden has been improving week to week, imo. I'd like to see the Ravens have enough sustained drives and put up enough points to stave of Palmers quick, potent ability to move the Bengals O up and down the field. The Ravens O keeping Palmer & co. off the field is just as important as the Ravens D playing well against him, imo.

Kind of interesting point here. If it does come down to the big boys in the trenches and running up the middle, we might see the Bengal 2005 4th round center (Ghiaciuc, 119 overall) playing opposite the Ravens 2005 4th round center (Brown, 124 overall).

I know the Ghiaciuc pick had me scratching my head a bit since most things I had seen rated Jason Brown pretty highly in that class of centers. Of course, Guy-chick has gone on to do a good job when called upon and has shown consistent improvement in recent weeks (so folks are off his back -- for now). Both players will be facing some stiff opposition this week, so it will be interesting to see how they hold up.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Jamal has returned to form. He's running with the same physical form as he has in the past, body lean, pumping legs, physicality. The numbers haven't been huge, but they haven't needed to be. The offense is balanced, opposing defenses have to respect the run.

To say he hasn't is as silly as saying Palmer hasn't returned to form recently, which I will readily admit.

Yeah, except Carson has a passer rating right at 100 (all-pro stats), and Lewis has a 3.6 YPC (crappy). I want to see Lewis put yards on a real defense (read: not the Bengals) and break tackles before I say he's back. Personally, I don't think he's been the same since he became somebody's prison bitch.

[BengalPimp]

Jamal has returned to form. He's running with the same physical form as he has in the past, body lean, pumping legs, physicality. The numbers haven't been huge, but they haven't needed to be. The offense is balanced, opposing defenses have to respect the run.

To say he hasn't is as silly as saying Palmer hasn't returned to form recently, which I will readily admit.

Yeah, except Carson has a passer rating right at 100 (all-pro stats), and Lewis has a 3.6 YPC (crappy). I want to see Lewis put yards on a real defense (read: not the Bengals) and break tackles before I say he's back. Personally, I don't think he's been the same since he became somebody's prison bitch.

Uh, you forgot to add that Jamal is currently ranked.......hold on to your hats......18th in the NFL in rushing

Returned to form? He should be returned to Prison

.

[schweinhart]

The more it sounds like John Thonrton is out at RDT for the Bengals....The more I like having about 700 pounds up front in Doublewide Sam and Big Shaun. Only problem there is going to be the loss of some decent backside pursuit from Thornton. Shaun gets after it but just ain't as quick. No Thornton adds yet another quirk to the Bengals seemingly never ending positional Chinese fire drill. They'll probably have to kick B-Rob down to LDT on passing downs so the 4-man rotation will have to be him, Adams, Smith and Peko. They can't just go 3 with 2 of them being the loads they are cause they'll get worn out.

And that should mean B-Rob plays less at LDE. Sounding like Fanene is returning just in time. Wouldn't mind seeing what he can do pass rushing vs. Ogden because it won't be too hard to predict how Justin fares against him.

If Jam is going to break a hundred, he's going to have to bounce out because the Bengals D-line vs. the run has been the one constant except for 1 game -- the middle is jammed.

LB seems up in the air. Do they play Brooks again in the middle and let him run blitz amuck? Or leave Caleb Miller in to see if he can continue to play all over the place knocking down everything in sight? Or does Brian Simmons have anything to offer for this one? Whatever Brez decides, they're going to have to het some prssure on McNair from the LB corps this week because it don't seem like much will be coming from the D-line.

[Jam31]

Lewis has a 3.6 YPC

yards per carry, like playcalling, is overrated

He should be returned to Prison

coming from a bengals fan? happy when henry's breathalyzer results get thrown?? where's your middle linebacker???

seriously, my boy doesn't need 100 yards either, he had 60 yards in the first half vs. Pittsburgh and then we salted him away.

with McNair around, we don't need 2003 Jamal, just 2006 Jamal.

but don't take my word for it.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Lewis has a 3.6 YPC

yards per carry, like playcalling, is overrated

He should be returned to Prison

coming from a bengals fan? happy when henry's breathalyzer results get thrown?? where's your middle linebacker???

seriously, my boy doesn't need 100 yards either, he had 60 yards in the first half vs. Pittsburgh and then we salted him away.

with McNair around, we don't need 2003 Jamal, just 2006 Jamal.

but don't take my word for it.

YPC is overrated, huh? Care to explain? Is that why teams with high YPC correlate with playoff success? And since when is playcalling overrated? Is that why Billick fired Fassel?

At least our MLB didn't weasel out of a murder rap.

[bengal4life]

Lewis has a 3.6 YPC

yards per carry, like playcalling, is overrated

He should be returned to Prison

coming from a bengals fan? happy when henry's breathalyzer results get thrown?? where's your middle linebacker???

seriously, my boy doesn't need 100 yards either, he had 60 yards in the first half vs. Pittsburgh and then we salted him away.

with McNair around, we don't need 2003 Jamal, just 2006 Jamal.

but don't take my word for it.

YPC is overrated, huh? Care to explain? Is that why teams with high YPC correlate with playoff success? And since when is playcalling overrated? Is that why Billick fired Fassel?

At least our MLB didn't weasel out of a murder rap.

you took the words right out of my mouth

[TJJackson]

Lewis has a 3.6 YPC

yards per carry, like playcalling, is overrated

on the contrary -- it is the single most important measureable of a running back's productivity.

if anything, it is UNDERRATED

On a related note, Rudi's own YPC has not been all that good this year....3.9 to this point

[Jam31]

YPC is overrated because its not simply a matter of yards, sometimes, especially in Baltimore's case, the number of attempts, the committment it what counts. Obviously, you can't have a 2.3 YPC necessarily, but every rb's attempt usually fall between 3.5 and 4.5. So of course you want that 4.5 or better still the 5.5 I believe Portis had his rookie year but its not essential to success.

Its like how the Bengals are 16-0 when Rudi carries 25 times or more. Quite often, the ability to reach that number is not directly correlated to success (4.5 v 3.5) For example, if Jamal gets 5 yards on 2 carries, more likely than not (ok that's relative, i think we convert 40% on third downs overall), McNair converts the 3rd and 5. That's why I say its overrated. (what is Rudi's YPC anyway? did someone say 3.9?? i honestly don't know not being smart!)

Fassel got fired because he wasn't putting in time in the office and taking player's suggestions into account.

As much as I credit Billick for an offensive scheme and resulting success, playcalling IMO is overrated considering that execution is what matters most.

Concerning Ray Lewis, you guys can yap about the murder rap all day long. he was acquitted and there is no evidence that he killed anybody. so continue to insult him, hey better yet do it at the game. I hope you are close enough so he here's you. Nothing motivates our defense more than calling our best player a murderer.

All im saying is, of all fans besides Dallas..or San Diego, Bengals fans shouldn't be throwing stones.

[bengal4life]

YPC is overrated because its not simply a matter of yards, sometimes, especially in Baltimore's case, the number of attempts, the committment it what counts. Obviously, you can't have a 2.3 YPC necessarily, but every rb's attempt usually fall between 3.5 and 4.5. So of course you want that 4.5 or better still the 5.5 I believe Portis had his rookie year but its not essential to success.

Its like how the Bengals are 16-0 when Rudi carries 25 times or more. Quite often, the ability to reach that number is not directly correlated to success (4.5 v 3.5) For example, if Jamal gets 5 yards on 2 carries, more likely than not (ok that's relative, i think we convert 40% on third downs overall), McNair converts the 3rd and 5. That's why I say its overrated. (what is Rudi's YPC anyway? did someone say 3.9?? i honestly don't know not being smart!)

Fassel got fired because he wasn't putting in time in the office and taking player's suggestions into account.

As much as I credit Billick for an offensive scheme and resulting success, playcalling IMO is overrated considering that execution is what matters most.

Concerning Ray Lewis, you guys can yap about the murder rap all day long. he was acquitted and there is no evidence that he killed anybody. so continue to insult him, hey better yet do it at the game. I hope you are close enough so he here's you. Nothing motivates our defense more than calling our best player a murderer.

All im saying is, of all fans besides Dallas..or San Diego, Bengals fans shouldn't be throwing stones.

I would call him out but I'm in section 316 so I doubt he'd hear me. Hell I'll try it anyways. As for over rated, I think your D is over rated.

[derekshank]

LB seems up in the air. Do they play Brooks again in the middle and let him run blitz amuck? Or leave Caleb Miller in to see if he can continue to play all over the place knocking down everything in sight? Or does Brian Simmons have anything to offer for this one? Whatever Brez decides, they're going to have to het some prssure on McNair from the LB corps this week because it don't seem like much will be coming from the D-line.

Here's a write up I read recently. It's off of a pay site, so there's no reason to post a link, but I'm also only posting a small section - so I don't think there should be any legal concerns. (If I'm wrong... Mods can feel free to delete it).

The Bengals LB situation has settled some with the emergence of Caleb Miller as a solid MLB and the inability of Brian Simmons to get healthy enough to play on gamedays. There are a number of factors contributing to the good play and solid production of Miller. First, give credit to Miller. He's been much more disciplined in his run fits than either Simmons or Brooks were and he's tackling better too, despite being the smallest Mike in the league at 220 pounds. But, make no mistake, Miller is benefiting from the improved play of NT Sam Adams, who has been more disruptive over the past couple of weeks, and the return of starting SLB Rashad Jeanty. Jeanty is the only backer capable of holding the point of attack on the strong side consistently on the Bengal roster and has been a huge boost to the run defense. With Adams and Jeanty holding blockers and turning the play back inside, Miller has been free to roam and make plays cleanly. Given how disciplined Miller has been, Ahmad Brooks is unlikely to see the field in any significant role unless the Bengals fall from playoff contention or suffer another rash of injuries to the LB corps. Brooks has talent, though, and should be a factor in 2007. The wild card right now is the health of Brian Simmons. For now, despite being able to participate in practice, Simmons hasn't been needed on game days with everybody else healthy. Simmons has a knack for making big plays, though, and will likely rotate in with Miller and Johnson, especially in nickel packages, when healthy enough to go.

[HairOnFire]

if anything, it is UNDERRATED

On a related note, Rudi's own YPC has not been all that good this year....3.9 to this point

Using stats to make a point usually means you're guaranteed to get it wrong. For example, Rudi's YPC average is dramatically better when playing at home (4.6 YPC) than it is on the road. Since he's the same back regardless of where he plays you have to look at other factors...team or game related...to understand why he produces less when playing in road games.

As for Jamal Lewis, he does look better this season, but he could hardly have been worse last season...so let's not make too much out of it. I've seen nothing to make me think he's returned to the form he once had, and he's not far removed from making statements that make it clear that he still holds a grudge against the Ravens franchise for failing to support him in the same manner that they once treated the preacher, Ray "Stabby" Lewis. So I'll agree that he's back to a point, due to having better focus than last season, but not even close to being the back he once was.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

YPC is overrated because its not simply a matter of yards, sometimes, especially in Baltimore's case, the number of attempts, the committment it what counts. Obviously, you can't have a 2.3 YPC necessarily, but every rb's attempt usually fall between 3.5 and 4.5. So of course you want that 4.5 or better still the 5.5 I believe Portis had his rookie year but its not essential to success.

Its like how the Bengals are 16-0 when Rudi carries 25 times or more. Quite often, the ability to reach that number is not directly correlated to success (4.5 v 3.5) For example, if Jamal gets 5 yards on 2 carries, more likely than not (ok that's relative, i think we convert 40% on third downs overall), McNair converts the 3rd and 5. That's why I say its overrated. (what is Rudi's YPC anyway? did someone say 3.9?? i honestly don't know not being smart!)

Fassel got fired because he wasn't putting in time in the office and taking player's suggestions into account.

As much as I credit Billick for an offensive scheme and resulting success, playcalling IMO is overrated considering that execution is what matters most.

Concerning Ray Lewis, you guys can yap about the murder rap all day long. he was acquitted and there is no evidence that he killed anybody. so continue to insult him, hey better yet do it at the game. I hope you are close enough so he here's you. Nothing motivates our defense more than calling our best player a murderer.

All im saying is, of all fans besides Dallas..or San Diego, Bengals fans shouldn't be throwing stones.

Ah, but that "commitment" to the run is a convenience of having a lead. If you are averaging 3 YPC over the first three quarters, and you are still running in the 4th, it means that your passing game and defense gave you a lead because otherwise you aren't running. Otherwise, running backs that get yards are better running backs. The only exception is a situation in which YPC is deceptively low, like when a team has a bunch of short yardage/goalline plays. In that fairly rare case, YPC is misleading, but certainly between the 10's, YPC is a very good indicator of success.

We had that thread this past week, discussing the "Bengals are 16-0 when Rudi runs 25 times." stat. If it were that simple, we'd give him the rock 25 times in the first half, go 19-0, win the Super Bowl, and head to Disneyland. The fact is that the causality is the other way - namely, Rudi gets the ball 25 times when the Bengals are winning.

I know all that sounds complicated, but to break it down real simple, getting yards is good, and getting tackled is bad. Good backs get YPC over 4, backs at or under 3.5 are bad. Jamal is dangerously near the low end of that.

As for playcalling...if it's so overrated, Fassel should be able to spend 10 hours a week drawing up some plays in the dirt and be fine. Fact is your offense bounced when he was canned. Look at the Rams passing offense and Broncos running. All system.

[Jam31]

So I'll agree that he's back to a point, due to having better focus than last season, but not even close to being the back he once was.

which is why I said earlier that with McNair around, we don't need 2003 Jamal, just 2006 Jamal.

[HairOnFire]

So I'll agree that he's back to a point, due to having better focus than last season, but not even close to being the back he once was.

which is why I said earlier that with McNair around, we don't need 2003 Jamal, just 2006 Jamal.

You'll get no argument from me. Again, ignoring the stat based argument...this years version of Jamal Lewis may be vastly inferior to the player he once was, but I've seen enough to make me think that he MAY be good enough to help the Ravens make a deep playoff run. In short, he's not a weakness or a poor RB regardless of what the stat sheet might say.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

So I'll agree that he's back to a point, due to having better focus than last season, but not even close to being the back he once was.

which is why I said earlier that with McNair around, we don't need 2003 Jamal, just 2006 Jamal.

You'll get no argument from me. Again, ignoring the stat based argument...this years version of Jamal Lewis may be vastly inferior to the player he once was, but I've seen enough to make me think that he MAY be good enough to help the Ravens make a deep playoff run. In short, he's not a weakness or a poor RB regardless of what the stat sheet might say.

Sure, but that's more their D than any capability of Lewis. Hell, the Bucs won a SB with Brad Johnson and running back by committee.

[membengal]

Such a huge game for the Bengals, in some ways as critical in terms of their season as the one in Pittsburgh was this time last year.

Getting ready to blow out of work early for this. Can't wait.