BengalsZone Big Board '07

[Kazkal]

18th=900 pts

36=540 64-270 100=100 total: 910

Hmmmm

36=Marcus McCauley,Fred Bennett or Chris Houston...who evers on the board

49=Desmond Bishop,Brandon Siler or Rufus Alexander...WLB / backup multi postions? Probbley be seen as future WLB minus odell fing up and being banned from the nfl.

64=Zach Miller,Joe Newton , Ben Patrick,Matt Spaeth or Manuel Ramirez)if manuel tim day or usc guy make the team.

100=Paul Soliai or other big NT

111=Kevin Payne

142=Eldra Buckley

173=Palauni Ma Sun

7th rounder= Jared Zabransky

Call Tampa

[schweinhart]

Bengals probably won't be the only team calling Tampa. But the Bucs need a whole lot and might opt to prioritize bodies more than moving up to target a player in the mid 1st.

I don't know about drafting a TE. Seeemed logical enough the past few years and just doesn't happen.

Day 2 picks I'm leaning toward:

4th Jordan Palmer

5th Kevin Payne

6th Quinton Culberson

7th Brent Curvey

I'm pretty much zapping TE.

[HoosierCat]

I'm pretty much zapping TE.

And again...that's my cue

The mockosphere has begun to digest the combine, and corners Revis and Hall are coming out in double-digit vote counts. Okoye continues to float upward out of the Bengals' reach, while a favorite from way, way, way back -- like page 1 of this thread -- races up the charts thanks to his blazing 40 time. Welcome back, Greg Olsen! Oddest note is a surge in DEs, with Moss, Johnson and Carriker all gaining.

In the second, TE Zach Miller takes the lead over Justin Harrell. The breakdown:

By Name:

CB Darrelle Revis 15 (+3)

CB Leon Hall 11 (+2)

DT Amobi Okoye 9 (-2)

DE Adam Carriker 7 (+1)

LB Paul Posluszny 6 (-1)

LB Patrick Willis 5 (+1)

TE Greg Olsen 4 (+3)

DE Jarvis Moss 4 (+2)

DE Charles Johnson 4 (+1)

DT Tank Tyler 3 (no change)

DE Quentin Moses 3 (no change)

S Reggie Nelson 3 (-1)

S LaRon Landry 3 (-1)

TE Zach Miller 2 (no change)

LB Lawrence Timmons 2 (-1)

By Position:

CB 28 (+7)

DE 20 (+4)

LB 13 (-1)

DT 13 (-5)

S 7 (-4)

TE 6 (+3)

OT 1 (+1)

In the 2nd Round:

TE Zach Miller 5 (+1)

DT Justin Harrell 4 (no change)

DT Quinn Pitcock 3 (+1)

OG Ben Grubbs 2 (no change)

LB David Harris 2 (no change)

Round 2 By Position:

DT 10 (+2)

TE 6 (no change)

CB 5 (+3)

LB 5 (no change)

OG 3 (no change)

S 2 (-1)

DE 2 (no change)

OT 1 (no change)

[HoosierCat]

Quick update of the first round as FA rolls on. Favorite Revis is hovering. Climbing are Greg Olsen, Patrick Willis, and Chris Houston. CB is running away with it positionally. The breakdown:

By Name:

CB Darrelle Revis 15 (no change)

CB Leon Hall 10 (-1)

DT Amobi Okoye 9 (no change)

TE Greg Olsen 7 (+3)

LB Patrick Willis 7 (+2)

LB Paul Posluszny 7 (+1)

DE Adam Carriker 7 (no change)

CB Chris Houston 4 (+3)

DT Tank Tyler 4 (+1)

DE Quentin Moses 4 (+1)

DE Charles Johnson 4 (no change)

DE Jarvis Moss 3 (-1)

LB Lawrence Timmons 2 (no change)

S LaRon Landry 2 (-1)

By Position:

CB 31 (+3)

DE 19 (-1)

LB 16 (+3)

DT 15 (+2)

TE 8 (+2)

S 5 (-2)

[Stripes]

I expect the linebackers to make a run at the corners' lead here after cutting Simmons. It'll take a little while before the mocks can respond to all these moves though.

[Kazkal]

Would be nice to see Jordan not mind being taken by us...It would serve as backup for first year or 2 well he devolopes in to a better QB then we trade him for 1st day pick

[HoosierCat]

I expect the linebackers to make a run at the corners' lead here after cutting Simmons. It'll take a little while before the mocks can respond to all these moves though.

What's been interesting to me is the resilience of Carriker in these mocks. Despite the resigning of Geathers and franchising of Smith, a chunk of the mockosphere simply refuses to come off him. I expected DE to plunge...but it's only dropped a bit. I suppose they are waiting to see if the bengals get a long-term deal or if Justin plays under the franchise tender.

[Stripes]

I suppose they are waiting to see if the bengals get a long-term deal or if Justin plays under the franchise tender.

That's what I figure. Considering all the comparisons between Carriker and Justin, many mockster probably see Adam as the Bengals' eventual starter. Should Smith be signed long term, Carriker will fall off the map (unless anyone takes his DT projections seriously).

[Kazkal]

or one of idiots who gave us troy smith.

[schweinhart]

I suppose they are waiting to see if the bengals get a long-term deal or if Justin plays under the franchise tender.

That's what I figure. Considering all the comparisons between Carriker and Justin, many mockster probably see Adam as the Bengals' eventual starter. Should Smith be signed long term, Carriker will fall off the map (unless anyone takes his DT projections seriously).

If the Bengals seriously want another Justin Smith, Carriker's fellow Cornhusker Jay Moore is more like him than Carriker....and a much better pass rusher with better run pursuit at RDE.

For all the hype on Carriker, I'd expect teams to rely more on the tape than the measurables and that might sway teams from overdrafting a 2nd rounder, much like Amobi Okoye, Poz and Olsen. Of course, teams got to pick from who's there because they can't all trade out of the 1st round.

Free agency is filling up a lot of team needs fast with a lot of 2nd tier players getting long, fat contracts. And the pressing needs that where there before are getting less pressing.

[HoosierCat]

Another quick first round update. Miami TE Greg Olsen continues to ascend the Bengalszone Big Board. I understand that not only has his blazing 40 time impressed scouts, but word recently leaked that at the Miami Pro Day, he did the Kessel Run in just 11 parsecs, beating a record set 30 years ago by Imperial U's H. Solo. Meanwhile, Chris Houston continues to bubble up through the pack, while DE Adam Carriker is the rock that simply cannot be moved.

Positionally, CB extends its lead. The breakdown:

By Name:

CB Darrelle Revis 16 (+1)

TE Greg Olsen 10 (+3)

CB Leon Hall 10 (no change)

DT Amobi Okoye 8 (-1)

DE Adam Carriker 7 (no change)

CB Chris Houston 6 (+2)

LB Paul Posluszny 6 (-1)

LB Patrick Willis 5 (-2)

DE Jarvis Moss 4 (+1)

DE Quentin Moses 4 (no change)

S Michael Griffin 3 (+2)

DT Tank Tyler 3 (-1)

LB Lawrence Timmons 2 (no change)

S LaRon Landry 2 (no change)

DE Charles Johnson 2 (-2)

By Position:

CB 34 (+3)

DE 17 (-2)

LB 14 (-2)

DT 13 (-2)

TE 11 (+3)

S 7 (+2)

[schweinhart]

Most likely next bubbler -- Jon Beason.

I sure hope teams draft overhyped players like Okoye, Carriker, Poz and Greg Olsen ahead of the Bengals this year. That would be outstanding.

[HoosierCat]

Most likely next bubbler -- Jon Beason.

I sure hope teams draft overhyped players like Okoye, Carriker, Poz and Greg Olsen ahead of the Bengals this year. That would be outstanding.

Yeah, Beason finally got into the first a few days ago when the yahoo guy did his 3rd mock. He's had some votes in the second (3 right now I believe) for a while.

Okoye will certainly be gone by the time Cincy picks. I wouldn't put him among the overhyped -- but he is something of a project and it will probably take a year or two for him to get going. Poz is still a favorite of a few mockers, but the emerging consensus on him seems to be round 2. Carriker is still all over the board. It looks to me like the people who like him, really, really like him; the people that don't, really, really don't. Greg Blazing 40 Time Olsen will, I think, go late in the first. Though the mockosphere increasingly loves him for the Bengals (I think he's up to 13 votes today) I can't see the Bengals even glancing at him with the way the D is right now.

[schweinhart]

With the dearth of DT no doubt Okoye looks good to see teams with a major need. But the Bengals could get a version of him -- and I'm really not convinced it's a lesser version -- in Brent Curvey in probably the 6th or 7th round. He's like Okoye vs. the run -- if he can't outquick to the ball, he either takes himself out of the play or he gets plastered. It's either TFL or a gash right up the middle. For all the hype on Okoye, he's not a strong run defender by any stretch. Maybe down the road, though.

Revis probably remains the top choice unless he pulls a milk truck at his Pro Day. If he comes up with a Daymeion Hughes time, it'll probably hit him harder than Hughes who few probably expected to have enough straight speed to be a viable 1st rounder to begin with.

Zach Miller fared better 40 wise at his Pro Day than he did at the Combine, but west coast styled teams in search of quick crossers and seam runners will still like Olsen better because of the straight speed. But Zach Miller is the more rounded TE. Gil Brandt had Jonathan Hayes among the team personnel checking out Miller at ASU's pro day. So maybe TE gets some consideration in the 2nd but still doubt they draft one at all again.

[HairOnFire]

With the dearth of DT no doubt Okoye looks good to see teams with a major need. But the Bengals could get a version of him -- and I'm really not convinced it's a lesser version -- in Brent Curvey in probably the 6th or 7th round.

You're actually going to claim that a likely Top 15 pick is no better than a player who you project to be a late round pick?

Please cancel my subscription to your newsletter immediately.

[Stripes]

With the dearth of DT no doubt Okoye looks good to see teams with a major need. But the Bengals could get a version of him -- and I'm really not convinced it's a lesser version -- in Brent Curvey in probably the 6th or 7th round. He's like Okoye vs. the run -- if he can't outquick to the ball, he either takes himself out of the play or he gets plastered. It's either TFL or a gash right up the middle. For all the hype on Okoye, he's not a strong run defender by any stretch. Maybe down the road, though.

I agree that Okoye would be a liability against the run, but I'm not sure that would hold true for him anymore than it does for John Thornton. Okoye would offer a nearly certain upgrade in the pass rush from that position, and given the role Thornton has been employed to fill since he joined the team, I'd love to see that.

It's all probably a meaningless debate though, given that Okoye won't last long enough for the Bengals to consider the ups and downs of such a pick.

[HoosierCat]

With only a handful of weeks to go, it's a dead heat in the mockosphere, with Greg Blazing 40 Time Olsen sandwiched between corners Darrelle Revis and Leon Hall. Positionally, LB is rising.

In the second, it's TE Zach Miller, S Eric Weddle and LB Jon "Bubbler" Beason all tied with 3 votes each.

Breakdown in the first:

By Name:

CB Darrelle Revis 15 (-1)

TE Greg Olsen 14 (+4)

CB Leon Hall 14 (+4)

LB Patrick Willis 7 (+2)

DT Amobi Okoye 7 (-1)

DE Jarvis Moss 5 (+1)

DE Adam Carriker 5 (-2)

CB Chris Houston 5 (-1)

LB Paul Posluszny 5 (-1)

LB Lawrence Timmons 3 (+1)

LB Jon Beason 2 (+2)

CB Marcus McCauley 2 (+1)

S Reggie Nelson 2 (+1)

DE Charles Johnson 2 (no change)

DT Tank Tyler 2 (-1)

DE Quentin Moses 2 (-2)

By Position:

CB 34 (no change)

LB 18 (+4)

TE 14 (+3)

DE 14 (-3)

DT 11 (-2)

S 4 (-3)

OG 1 (+1)

OT 1 (+1)

[derekshank]

In the second, it's TE Zach Miller, S Eric Weddle and LB Jon "Bubbler" Beason all tied with 3 votes each.

I'd be really happy with Beason in the 2nd. Especially if we get a CB in the first.

[schweinhart]

With the dearth of DT no doubt Okoye looks good to see teams with a major need. But the Bengals could get a version of him -- and I'm really not convinced it's a lesser version -- in Brent Curvey in probably the 6th or 7th round.

You're actually going to claim that a likely Top 15 pick is no better than a player who you project to be a late round pick?

I should've been more forceful in doing the same with Marques Colston last year instead of just:

"Belongs with the top talent at his position in this draft."

So here goes with Big Play Curvey:

"Unlike the overhyped, teenage phenom Amobi Okoye, Brent "Big Play" Curvey started for four years in a conference with arguably stiffer competition and proved he's a durable interior brawler game in and game out. Curvey got his "Big Play" tag for big reasons -- namely tackles for loss against the run and sacks, which he racked up a lot more than Okoye did. In Curvey, the Bengals would get the pass rushing specialist they need inside and all for a 7th round pick."

[HairOnFire]

I've got no problem with the idea of looking at Brent Curvey or my boy Antonio Johnson in the late rounds, but I think you're overreacting to hype by tearing down Okoye. He may need a season or two of seassoning but he's an outstanding NFL prospect that doesn't deserve to be mentioned with players who have much less upside.

[schweinhart]

Antonio Johnson is pretty quick off the ball and plays strong inside. Plus he's got some frame to add bulk. I'm doubting he falls to the Bengals 4th round pick, so if they like him, they probably got to jump him in the 2nd. There was another DT in Sylvester Crrome's DT rotation who is a much quicker penetrator with better lateral movement than Johnson but no one near as strong inside who the Bengals could get with a 7th -- Deljuan Robinson. He'd be a good fit as the pass rushing DT, big run defending DE that Bryan Robinson is.

No doubt Okoye is a good NFL prospect and will likely go high in the 1st round, partly because he has played his way into the position during his season and turned it on when he needed to at the combine, but also because there's no one else who looks remotely like a 1st round DT at this point. Okoye will most likely have to repeat in college what he did in the pros -- absolutely nothing his 1st and 2nd years, pass rushing DT his 3rd year and an all-downs DT his 4th. Maybe he can do it quicker this time around now than he's more physically mature.

But who deserves what? A player who arrived the final year out of 4 or the player who started all 4 years? Okoye is way overblown with his upside hype. He really doesn't offer anything more yet than an equally quick twitch, penetrating DT like Curvey does. Okoye hasn't proven he's a run defender and hoping he will develop into one is something the team that picks him high will have to brace in anticpation of a bust.

Based on their play on the field in college, I would say it is Okoye who doesn't deserve to be mentioned with Curvey.

[HairOnFire]

No doubt Okoye is a good NFL prospect and will likely go high in the 1st round, partly because he has played his way into the position during his season and turned it on when he needed to at the combine, but also because there's no one else who looks remotely like a 1st round DT at this point.

If Okoye is a likely 1st round pick due to a lack of options at the position he plays then what does that say about Curvey, a player you project as a 6th or 7th round pick?

Okoye will most likely have to repeat in college what he did in the pros -- absolutely nothing his 1st and 2nd years, pass rushing DT his 3rd year and an all-downs DT his 4th. Maybe he can do it quicker this time around now than he's more physically mature.

The above reminds me of a months-long argument I had with another poster about the supposedly more proven Byron Leftwich being far superior to one-year wonder Carson Palmer. I argued then and I'll argue now that college production counts for very little when judging pro prospects. Much more important is if a college prospect finds a way to take that final step and becomes a a quality pro prospect, and it doesn't matter much, if at all, if the final step is taken as a senior or as a sophmore.

Antonio Johnson is pretty quick off the ball and plays strong inside. Plus he's got some frame to add bulk. I'm doubting he falls to the Bengals 4th round pick, so if they like him, they probably got to jump him in the 2nd.

I've pimped Johnson for some time now but I'll probably swallow my gum if Johnson is a 1st day draft pick.

[HoosierCat]

An independent take on Okoye...

I was talking football with John Harris who is a good friend of mine from way back and a college football analyst for collegefootballnews.com. We got into a discussion about Amobi Okoye and how much I like him. This email is a couple of weeks old, but here are his thoughts on Louisville DT Amobi Okoye.

"I don't know why, but after we talked this morning, I started thinking more about Okoye. So, I cued up my Louisville-Wake Forest game on my iPod and started watching him up close. I'm going to say this - this kid is one of the quickest, if not the quickest, I've seen at the DT position. He threw pass rush moves on two separate plays that were amazing. A rip move inside against a guard and the kid didn't even touch him. He threw a slap and swim one other time - WOW! He ran down a Wake receiver on a reverse - oh my gosh. But, I'll say this against the run, he gets moved. He's so light that a good get-off by the offensive linemen will push him back into linebackers. If he tries to beat the block with quickness, he gets pushed past. I think 10 to 12 is perfect for him, but I don't know that he's the answer at 8, but he is a playmaker."

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/200...o_trade_on.html

[schweinhart]

In short about Curvey, there's virtually no chance he can emerge as an all-downs DT. His strength is the same as Okoye's -- disruption and penetration into the backfield. Curvey has shown that strength much longer than Okoye has and Okoye only had 2 1/2 sacks in the 3 seasons prior to his breakout year. Even with Okoye's strong senior season of 15 TFL and 8 sacks, Curvey at the ripe old age of 21 was only a tick off at 12.5 and 7.

At the start of the Senior Bowl coverage, Mike Mayock projected Okoye as a mid 2nd rounder, which based on his floor from just 1 good year out of 4 seems right. But Okoye showed up like a greased pig and fared well in drills against decent O-line talent, giving more of a glimpse into his ceiling which is the main difference between him and a DT of limited use like Curvey who is all floor in one dimension with no potential for ceiling based on his maxed frame, which is only going to push about 290 at best. Curvey might be able to get on the field with a team that stunted a lot but other than that he's limited to being a pass rushing DT -- Day 2 fodder.

Add into Okoye's favor his age and his showing at the combine -- heavier and able to push the weights well behind long arms -- and he helped himself even more surpass the floor he set from his play in his one-year-wonder season. With his obvious intelligence, drive to succeed and potential to get even thicker to more of a LDT size in a 4-3, teams that start looking at him in the Top 15 will know that ceiling of being an all-downs DT with a motor that don't quit is more attainable because Okoye has shown his willingness to do what it takes to position himself as best as possible. All of that don't take out the bust factor, but teams will know that it won't be for a lack of trying on Okoye's part.

Even though Curvey has had the far more productive college career than Okoye, Curvey most likely can't be what Okoye could be. There's the difference and the hype because Okoye just flat out hasn't done it either. Add the lack of top prospects at DT in this draft and Okoye is going to look even better in his hype light. So too will Antonio Johnson, minus the hype, because there just isn't much to pick from at DT in this draft.

It'd be a major shift for the Bengals to take an undersized pass rushing DT when the Bengals obviously prefer using DEs to try to do the job, which hasn't worked in the 4 years Marv's been there. So it'd be unlikely that the Bengals would look at Curvey in the 7th as much as they would look at a cross between Peko and Fanene, like Kelly Talavou, who measured 6-2, 315 at the Hula Bowl or Deljuan Robinson, who would have a better shot at getting drafted as a 3-4 DE because he's moves better in space than the trash he'd run into at LDE if he was going to be used there and an inside pass rusher like Fanene, Jumpy Jr., Duane Clemons, Carl Plowed, etc..

[derekshank]

An independent take on Okoye...

I was talking football with John Harris who is a good friend of mine from way back and a college football analyst for collegefootballnews.com. We got into a discussion about Amobi Okoye and how much I like him. This email is a couple of weeks old, but here are his thoughts on Louisville DT Amobi Okoye.

"I don't know why, but after we talked this morning, I started thinking more about Okoye. So, I cued up my Louisville-Wake Forest game on my iPod and started watching him up close. I'm going to say this - this kid is one of the quickest, if not the quickest, I've seen at the DT position. He threw pass rush moves on two separate plays that were amazing. A rip move inside against a guard and the kid didn't even touch him. He threw a slap and swim one other time - WOW! He ran down a Wake receiver on a reverse - oh my gosh. But, I'll say this against the run, he gets moved. He's so light that a good get-off by the offensive linemen will push him back into linebackers. If he tries to beat the block with quickness, he gets pushed past. I think 10 to 12 is perfect for him, but I don't know that he's the answer at 8, but he is a playmaker."

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/200...o_trade_on.html

Sounds like a 3-4 DE to me. I personally think the Bengals need a balanced DT. I don't want a guy who is strictly a pass-rushing DT, or strictly a run stuffing DT. I'd like a big guy who can do both relatively well, rather than a guy who is fantastic at one and mediocre at the other.

P.S. If Okoye is the type of DT we want, we can probably have a much cheaper version of him later on in Quinn Pitcock. He's light, good pass rushing - but gets pushed around in the running game (sounds a lot like that write-up on Okoye), but we wouldn't have to use a 1st round pick on him.