Gutless D/Fire Bresh/D Sucks Megathread

[Spor_tees]

To compare the Bengals Defense to the Colts defense is like comparing hamburger to steak at this point. The Colts Defense hasn't given up more than 28 points but once this year whereas the Bengals have given up over 28 points 4 times! And all that is despite the fact that Indy runs the same type of hurry up Offense as the Bengals that keeps the Defense on the field more than other teams.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

Don't forget to put some blame on Darrin Simmons and his lack of a kick return coverage. man that was just as bad.

[CBin2k7]

Don't forget to put some blame on Darrin Simmons and his lack of a kick return coverage. man that was just as bad.

Some of that falls on the shoulder of Shayne Graham as well, either his kicks were short or line drives directly to returner.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

What I was saying is exactly what you looked at in the second quote. How many TD's did San Diego have to score on successive possessions before he would make an adjustment to stop their offense? Well as we all saw, quite a few.

Exactly. Tho to be fair the Palmer fumble didn't exactly help, and it's possibly a Bengals win without that.

Still, one turnover and you give up 49 points? I think they maybe had 2 other short fields on KO returns. I'll spot the defense 21-28 points and they would still lose big.

[HoosierCat]

To compare the Bengals Defense to the Colts defense is like comparing hamburger to steak at this point.

I think your analogy is a bit generous. D's like the Ravens' are steak. The Colts are hamburger. The Bengals' D is more like Hamburger Helper....

[Spor_tees]

To compare the Bengals Defense to the Colts defense is like comparing hamburger to steak at this point.

I think your analogy is a bit generous. D's like the Ravens' are steak. The Colts are hamburger. The Bengals' D is more like Hamburger Helper....

I take it back...the Bengals Defense doesn't even deserve to be meat, they are more like Tofu.

[HoosierCat]

Still, one turnover and you give up 49 points? I think they maybe had 2 other short fields on KO returns.

Which is just my point: you can't constantly stick the D in crappy situations and expect them to hold. That isn't to absolve them; they gave up plenty of points with all the odds in their favor, too. They had plenty of opportunities to stop the Chargers and did not. Thats where coaching enters the equation. OTOH, giving up scores when the other team gets to start on your own 10 is to be expected.

I take it back...the Bengals Defense doesn't even deserve to be meat, they are more like Tofu.

A-yup.

[Stripes]

The defense was pathetic all through the second half. The game ended with Palmer's fumble though.

[schweinhart]

Yea what an embarrising D this team is, and yes the front four sucks never any pressure and the blitz suck, the pass D is horrible cause of the lack of presure and we will go nowhere because of them, this game should be a blow out but no we always let teams get back in it. Wow just bad really bad.

Yeah the pass rush was mostly non-existent again. The front 4 regardless of who's in just don't cut it and the blitzers, including the DBs, just don't seen to ever get through. Just can't give QBs that kind of time. The secondary isn't getting it done either but letting the other QB have so much time makes it a whole lot harder. That last TD drive by the Bolts had 2 3rd and 8 plays where the Bengals almost got enough pressure and the CBs almost made the play on the ball. But it just keeps falling short for the Bengals again on the defensive end.

I do have to say that the run D seems for the most part fixed. LT killed with TDs but they held him in check for most of the game running outside of the red zone. Gates didn't exactly go off either. But for some dayum reason, Macolm Floyd was made to look like a Pro Bowler.

The only good news would be that the Bengals D won't face an offense this explosive again for a while.

[CBin2k7]

Yea what an embarrising D this team is, and yes the front four sucks never any pressure and the blitz suck, the pass D is horrible cause of the lack of presure and we will go nowhere because of them, this game should be a blow out but no we always let teams get back in it. Wow just bad really bad.

Yeah the pass rush was mostly non-existent again. The front 4 regardless of who's in just don't cut it and the blitzers, including the DBs, just don't seen to ever get through. Just can't give QBs that kind of time. The secondary isn't getting it done either but letting the other QB have so much time makes it a whole lot harder. That last TD drive by the Bolts had 2 3rd and 8 plays where the Bengals almost got enough pressure and the CBs almost made the play on the ball. But it just keeps falling short for the Bengals again on the defensive end.

I do have to say that the run D seems for the most part fixed. LT killed with TDs but they held him in check for most of the game running outside of the red zone. Gates didn't exactly go off either. But for some dayum reason, Macolm Floyd was made to look like a Pro Bowler.

The only good news would be that the Bengals D won't face an offense this explosive again for a while.

Good points, but I believe the Bengals will face an offense that, while not as explosive, will still move the ball up and down the field at will on them in the Saints next week.

[Whur CHad At?]

42 points in one half!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have been saying this since the day we got Bresh that we need to fire him. Look at Baltimore...Fassell wasn't getting the job done and Billick canned his ass. If Marvin is the defensive guru, let him call the damn plays...and bring some good personell in here

[rishipatel]

I still cannot believe that the D let them score 42 damn points in the second half. There's no excuse for us not winning that game.

I agree that after a poor showing like that, Marvin HAS to do something to stir things up a bit. If firing Bresnahan is the only answer, then do it and move on.

This team still has a glimmer of hope to make the playoffs, but they need to get their sh*t together. BOTH sides of the ball need to play well. Every week either the offense or the defense sputters. It's frickin ridiculous. They need some consistency.

[derekshank]

I don't know if firing Bresh is the answer. A mid-season move like that is usually due to severe incompetence, so I wouldn't expect it. We've been hit hard with injuries this year, and that isn't Bresh's fault.

On the other hand... this defense relaxed in the second half bcause we had a lead, and continued to play with no heart once we lost the momentum. Even with back-ups, that can't fly.

I'm pretty surprized really... because we have players like Dexter, Justin Smith and Madieu who all play with a lot of fire, but it just seemed like the rest of the team couldn't catch the passion. If that is Bresh's fault, I'll admit that it is a fireable offense. I'm just not so willing to admit that it is Bresh's fault at this point.

[HoosierCat]

I don't know if firing Bresh is the answer. A mid-season move like that is usually due to severe incompetence, so I wouldn't expect it. We've been hit hard with injuries this year, and that isn't Bresh's fault.

I think the thing that struck me most was the offhand comment by Diefdorf (I think) early on that he was "Chuck Blitznahan," based on the heavy number of blitzes the D was running.

Thing is, I have another name for "Chuck Blitznahan."

Leslie Frazier.

Frazier got canned because his defensive philosophy called for lots of stunts and blitzes, while Marvin wanted a more traditional defense that called for the front four to create pressure and the LBs to fill the gaps.

Here we are now and what do we have? "Blitznahan."

I don't want to see Marvin take over the D because he hasn't got a D that can do what he wants. He hasn't got the front four or the LB corps to make a "Marvin Lewis" scheme work. And that, not coincidentally, is why we have "Blitznahan."

Could the defensive coachig be better? Of course. But Marvin isn't the answer.

[Whur CHad At?]

It's funny if we blitz, then it is real s**tty blitzs because the QB has twenty minutes to throw the ball

[membengal]

Not in the first half he didn't.

Second half? Different story.

[Spor_tees]

It's funny if we blitz, then it is real s**tty blitzs because the QB has twenty minutes to throw the ball

It's not the fact that we blitz too much, or who we blitz, what I see that makes the Bengals blitzes so poor is the fact they don't disguise them well. The best blitz they had yesterday was with Dexter Jackson, and it happened to be a running play and he caught LT behind the line of scrimmage. If they could figure out a better way to keep the offense guessing and not let the opposing QB call the right audibles at the line, they might get more pressure on the QB.

[schweinhart]

Yea what an embarrising D this team is, and yes the front four sucks never any pressure and the blitz suck, the pass D is horrible cause of the lack of presure and we will go nowhere because of them, this game should be a blow out but no we always let teams get back in it. Wow just bad really bad.

Yeah the pass rush was mostly non-existent again. The front 4 regardless of who's in just don't cut it and the blitzers, including the DBs, just don't seen to ever get through. Just can't give QBs that kind of time. The secondary isn't getting it done either but letting the other QB have so much time makes it a whole lot harder. That last TD drive by the Bolts had 2 3rd and 8 plays where the Bengals almost got enough pressure and the CBs almost made the play on the ball. But it just keeps falling short for the Bengals again on the defensive end.

I do have to say that the run D seems for the most part fixed. LT killed with TDs but they held him in check for most of the game running outside of the red zone. Gates didn't exactly go off either. But for some dayum reason, Macolm Floyd was made to look like a Pro Bowler.

The only good news would be that the Bengals D won't face an offense this explosive again for a while.

Good points, but I believe the Bengals will face an offense that, while not as explosive, will still move the ball up and down the field at will on them in the Saints next week.

I do believe you dead on about the Saints. I caught some of the 2nd half of there loss to Pittsburgh and have seen them in other games succeed on offense. For all the Reggie Bush banter, it's been another rook Marques Colston who has ripped a few teams a new one. At least maybe the Bengals will be able to study harder with the mounting volume of tape on Colston than they did with Malcolm Floyd. I believe you called Floyd as being a potential major factor. Unfortunately, that turned out to be a great call.

You know maybe the Steelers will fire LeBeau. After all his D has given up like 45 to the Dirt Birds and now 31 to the Saints. Whole different scheme with a 3-4 obviously but amaybe he could handle a 4-3 and at least get the blitzers to blitz with some punch. And...oh yes...the Steelers are 3-6.

[CBin2k7]

Yea what an embarrising D this team is, and yes the front four sucks never any pressure and the blitz suck, the pass D is horrible cause of the lack of presure and we will go nowhere because of them, this game should be a blow out but no we always let teams get back in it. Wow just bad really bad.

Yeah the pass rush was mostly non-existent again. The front 4 regardless of who's in just don't cut it and the blitzers, including the DBs, just don't seen to ever get through. Just can't give QBs that kind of time. The secondary isn't getting it done either but letting the other QB have so much time makes it a whole lot harder. That last TD drive by the Bolts had 2 3rd and 8 plays where the Bengals almost got enough pressure and the CBs almost made the play on the ball. But it just keeps falling short for the Bengals again on the defensive end.

I do have to say that the run D seems for the most part fixed. LT killed with TDs but they held him in check for most of the game running outside of the red zone. Gates didn't exactly go off either. But for some dayum reason, Macolm Floyd was made to look like a Pro Bowler.

The only good news would be that the Bengals D won't face an offense this explosive again for a while.

Good points, but I believe the Bengals will face an offense that, while not as explosive, will still move the ball up and down the field at will on them in the Saints next week.

I do believe you dead on about the Saints. I caught some of the 2nd half of there loss to Pittsburgh and have seen them in other games succeed on offense. For all the Reggie Bush banter, it's been another rook Marques Colston who has ripped a few teams a new one. At least maybe the Bengals will be able to study harder with the mounting volume of tape on Colston than they did with Malcolm Floyd. I believe you called Floyd as being a potential major factor. Unfortunately, that turned out to be a great call.

You know maybe the Steelers will fire LeBeau. After all his D has given up like 45 to the Dirt Birds and now 31 to the Saints. Whole different scheme with a 3-4 obviously but amaybe he could handle a 4-3 and at least get the blitzers to blitz with some punch. And...oh yes...the Steelers are 3-6.

I don't even want to think about what Drew Brees will do to them with the time he is going to have in the pocket. Hell, we may turn Terrence Copper into a superstar next week. I know they won't be able to handle Colston, and if their kick coverage doesn't improve next week, Lewis/Bush will take it to the house. I am sorry but after that crap yesterday, I have lost all faith in the defense to stop anyone.

[bengalskyspy]

The Bengal's D should be called the the StarMakers. They single handedly deliver players right to the doorstep of Canton like its their job. They suck. There is no way the Chargers should have been able to come back from that deficit. They had to be one-dimensional, and yet we could not even stop that.

I believe Bres should go. He probably isn't the whole issue, but Marvin has to make a statement. Otherwise, the finger-pointing will be right at him, if it isn't already. He won't do it week. He must do it next week if the D implodes again against the Saints. At that point the season would be officially over.

[agreen_112]

We need to f**king fire somebody. What the f**k are they teaching these guys on defense anyways? Absolutely f**king retarded. If something doesn't happen then Marvin is just going to have to be held accountable and fess up! I trust you to make a decision Marv...

[bengalboomer7]

I don't know if firing Bresh is the answer. A mid-season move like that is usually due to severe incompetence, so I wouldn't expect it. We've been hit hard with injuries this year, and that isn't Bresh's fault.

I think the thing that struck me most was the offhand comment by Diefdorf (I think) early on that he was "Chuck Blitznahan," based on the heavy number of blitzes the D was running.

Thing is, I have another name for "Chuck Blitznahan."

Leslie Frazier.

Frazier got canned because his defensive philosophy called for lots of stunts and blitzes, while Marvin wanted a more traditional defense that called for the front four to create pressure and the LBs to fill the gaps.

Here we are now and what do we have? "Blitznahan."

I don't want to see Marvin take over the D because he hasn't got a D that can do what he wants. He hasn't got the front four or the LB corps to make a "Marvin Lewis" scheme work. And that, not coincidentally, is why we have "Blitznahan."

Could the defensive coachig be better? Of course. But Marvin isn't the answer.

Let's go even one deeper than that, Hoosier. I don't remember the exact game or the exact outcome, but a similar game occured under Leslie Frazier's watch. He subsequently lost his play calling duties and soon thereafter he was toast. At least this much needs to happen with Chuckie.

[Tasher]

So are we keeping Brat now?

Seems to me a couple of weeks ago, the D was fine giving up 13-14 points and we were calling for Brats head. Now the O scores 41 but the D gives up 49 so we call for Bres' head.

Does not make much sense to me.

Not that I have a good answer, just don't think that Bres or Brat are the guilty parties, since the PLAYERS on the field are the ones out of positions, not in their gaps and giving up the plays.

[jjakq27]

Let's go even one deeper than that, Hoosier. I don't remember the exact game or the exact outcome, but a similar game occured under Leslie Frazier's watch. He subsequently lost his play calling duties and soon thereafter he was toast. At least this much needs to happen with Chuckie.

Was it the 58-48 game against the Browns two years ago?

[HairOnFire]

Frazier got canned because his defensive philosophy called for lots of stunts and blitzes, while Marvin wanted a more traditional defense that called for the front four to create pressure and the LBs to fill the gaps.

Here we are now and what do we have? "Blitznahan."

I don't want to see Marvin take over the D because he hasn't got a D that can do what he wants. He hasn't got the front four or the LB corps to make a "Marvin Lewis" scheme work. And that, not coincidentally, is why we have "Blitznahan."

Could the defensive coachig be better? Of course. But Marvin isn't the answer.

Total agreement. Without a DT capable of providing an interior pass rush, and without the services of a pure pass rushing LB..ala joker David Pollack, and with inexperienced backups manning nearly every LB role, the Bengals have once again abandoned aggressive DE play and resorted to a "mush rush" supported by endless blitzing....which opposing teams can easily exploit for big plays. Thus, death on 3rd down.

I seriously doubt that Bres will be fired. In fact, I doubt Marvin Lewis even blames him for the failure since Marvin Lewis knows better than anyone that his defensive schemes are always built around his LB's, and this isn't a starting unit that anyone envisioned, or could get to play at a high level quickly.